How do you tell if your PH is a Progestin based or !?!

[Whacked]

Sorry for the odd question but my chem knowledge is weak.

How do you tell by the nomenclature of the PH if its a Progestin-based PH or Test PH.. Know what I mean?

Like Propadrol and MassFx. I think these are Test based PH's
Trenadrol and Wiztrol are Progestin based (I think)

Thanks

 

[Ziquor]

Mass FX isn't a PH or PS it's natural based product. Many times progestins include Estra in the nomenclature like Tren-based PH's (Tren Xtreme, Xtreme Tren, etc.)

 

[drksun]

Mass FX isn't a PH or PS it's natural based product. Many times progestins include Estra in the nomenclature like Tren-based PH's (Tren Xtreme, Xtreme Tren, etc.)

thats wrong! "Tren Xtreme, Xtreme Tren, etc." are not progestins, Estra-4 9-Diene-3 17-Dione is the same as 19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione and is a prohormone to dienolone. You are believing a misconception that trenx is a precursor to trenbolone which is a real progestin, 19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione, the body cant add the needed double bond to convert it to trenbolone. 19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione is not a tren based hormone!!!

 

[jasonschaffin]

Sorry for the odd question but my chem knowledge is weak.

How do you tell by the nomenclature of the PH if its a Progestin-based PH or Test PH.. Know what I mean?

Like Propadrol and MassFx. I think these are Test based PH's
Trenadrol and Wiztrol are Progestin based (I think)

Thanks

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/86894-myogenix-xtreme-tren.html

A lot was answered here. Apparently Z up their didn't go back and read all the correct answers before posting about "Tren Extreme" again.

 

[Ziquor]

There's much debate to this right now. I know 2 chemists and 1 swears it's not related to Tren and not a progestin but the other swears otherwise so who knows. I remember the day when a company could only release products of the highest quality and could not make any unwarranted claims or they'd be done for. With supplements being unregulated there's no end in sight to this except for the possibility of the fda stepping in & regulating the quality of everything. This would be great as far as quality control goes but many of the best selling supps (PH/PS) would be gone no doubt.

 

[jasonschaffin]

There's much debate to this right now. I know 2 chemists and 1 swears it's not related to Tren and not a progestin but the other swears otherwise so who knows. I remember the day when a company could only release products of the highest quality and could not make any unwarranted claims or they'd be done for. With supplements being unregulated there's no end in sight to this except for the possibility of the fda stepping in & regulating the quality of everything. This would be great as far as quality control goes but many of the best selling supps (PH/PS) would be gone no doubt.

It is 'related' to tren. Both are 19nor androgens. Tren has an extra double bond (4,9,11) though. YOUR BODY WILL NOT FORM THIS BOND. So it is not a tren prohormone. Simple.
It is 'based' off dienolone. A 19nor androgen with 4,9 double bonds.

 

[Ziquor]

I understand that their 'close' in chemical relation but not the same. I just haven't seen any doctors or experts say exactly what it converts to. I went by the companies claims & the Sinners information which most people do. I sure am a jackass for listening to the company & Sinner as opposed to a few 20 something's which most don't even have degrees. 99% of all people were convinced the world was flat at one time too until it was proven not to be. And as for the thread above of course I never went back into it nor will I because some people don't know how to disagree respectfully as apparent here. I'm only a dic! to those who are a dic! to me 1st. But the point is I really don't know how can companies get away with false advertisement it's sad not to mention illegal. But then again so are PH/PS's and they're still around, for now.

 

[drksun]

I understand that their 'close' in chemical relation but not the same. I just haven't seen any doctors or experts say exactly what it converts to. I went by the companies claims & the Sinners information which most people do. I sure am a jackass for listening to the company & Sinner as opposed to a few 20 somethings which most don't even have degrees. 99% of all people were convinced the world was flat at one time too until it was proven not to be. And as for the thread above of course I never went back into it nor will I because some people don't know how to disagree respectfully as apparent here. I'm only a dic! to those who are a dic! to me 1st. But the point is I really don't know how can companies get away with false advertisement it's sad not to mention illegal. But then again so are PH/PS's and they're still around, for now.

PA him self said what i told you, Patrick Arnold and Dr.D are the smartest in the industry, they are real organic chemists.. Also you don't need a chem degree to understand lower division ochem, some of these 20 year olds are in college and have this stuff fresh in their heads. Also the reason why there is no hard info on the stuff because it a since is doesn't really exist, thats the way the supplement companies approach it, they make up some new chemical and it goes straight to the market, there is no research on the stuff, you cant open up pubmed and look up studies like you can with straight test. What they do is make a product, market it, sell it, profit, then run, no body knows what they really are selling, they close down before the fda has time to take a look, there is no regulation, only guidelines, basically when you buy something you have to look at the company as much as the molecule. Truthfully not all doctors know anything about designers..

 

[Ziquor]

PA him self said what i told you, Patrick Arnold and Dr.D are the smartest in the industry, they are real organic chemists.. Also you don't need a chem degree to understand lower division ochem, some of these 20 year olds are in college and have this stuff fresh in their heads. Also the reason why there is no hard info on the stuff because it a since is doesn't really exist, thats the way the supplement companies approach it, they make up some new chemical and it goes straight to the market, there is no research on the stuff, you cant open up pubmed and look up studies like you can with straight test. What they do is make a product, market it, sell it, profit, then run, no body knows what they really are selling, they close down before the fda has time to take a look, there is no regulation, only guidelines, basically when you buy something you have to look at the company as much as the molecule. Truthfully not all doctors know anything about designers..

I agree 100% about doctors and with mostly everything else you wrote. Plus with PA everyone says he's full of sh!t but he seems quite knowledgeable to me. And I'm not criticizing anyone here obviously there's some huge idiots on this forum as there is anywhere. I just typically try to study & research stuff on my own rather than base things on what others say in a forum plus I'm really stubborn once I begin to believe something. Your post reminds me of an article that was in the local paper where I live last week in the health section. I though of posting some of the info but it may just cause more arguments & contaversy and I really don't wanna be the one to open that can of worms. I just found it weird for the info to be in a local newspaper but I'll say there must be some sh!t about to go down with the PH/PS industry in general.

 

[xtraflossy]

lol- I always thought that it was LIKE tren (tren-Xtreme), actually more of a tren metabolite (not a precursor).. at least I read PA state that somewhere.
Anyways, 19nor ANYTHING I personally link to progestin based (like deca)

I beleive it it dontains the nomenclature "diene" it';s a good bet.

IT's also a bennfit to be able to actually know the nomenclature for straight-up testosterone, as many bases will have simular names too.

Beleive me, knowing what's test based and what's progestin based IS a science. But the information is readily available for your more classic steroids. We also have a fairly good thread in here concerning the profiles of the designers too.

 

[slow-mun]

I agree 100% about doctors and with mostly everything else you wrote. Plus with PA everyone says he's full of sh!t but he seems quite knowledgeable to me. And I'm not criticizing anyone here obviously there's some huge idiots on this forum as there is anywhere. I just typically try to study & research stuff on my own rather than base things on what others say in a forum plus I'm really stubborn once I begin to believe something. Your post reminds me of an article that was in the local paper where I live last week in the health section. I though of posting some of the info but it may just cause more arguments & contaversy and I really don't wanna be the one to open that can of worms. I just found it weird for the info to be in a local newspaper but I'll say there must be some sh!t about to go down with the PH/PS industry in general.

You've received solid information from several on this forum that you simply disregarded and then you caught an attitude for being schooled. Believe it or not, some of us have been at this a lot longer than you and are obviously better at it than you. BTW, I was in the Army for the better part of a decade, so you can lick my balls in reference to me not having a degree yet at 28. You embarrass yourself with your posts and frustrate me to no end. You can now threaten me or say something else that leaves you looking foolish..........

 

[jasonschaffin]

I just typically try to study & research stuff on my own rather than base things on what others say in a forum plus I'm really stubborn once I begin to believe something.

Go buy an "Organic Chemistry for Dummies" book. That would be study and research. Then come back to us and tell us what it would convert to. If you need help figuring out what any of the dione's are made to convert to all you have to do is change the 17-keto into a 17-hydroxy.
You may have a degree but it obviously had nothing to do with taking any chemistry so it holds no merit in this instance.

 

[pistonpump]

everybody says blah blah blah is a progestin....how do they know this? it goes the same with oh its prolactin induced gyno....because something is said to not aromatize then it hast to be prolactin...come on there is so many statements out there you cant believe everything without your own research. damn internet lore

 

[xtraflossy]

A good measure for progestin based chemicals (for me and MANY others);

IF your taking it and you have a hell of a time getting wood, your taking a progestin.

Which is why you NEVER hear of taking one without the use of test.

Designers that are progestins:
TRN
LMG
Tren-X (or 19nor-estro, and its varients)

All your oher black market compounds can be looked up, and it will say if it's progestin or test , or estrogen based

 

[xtraflossy]

everybody says blah blah blah is a progestin....how do they know this? it goes the same with oh its prolactin induced gyno....because something is said to not aromatize then it hast to be prolactin...come on there is so many statements out there you cant believe everything without your own research. damn internet lore

People OFTEN forget that your body makes estrogen..

When gyno flares begining of cycle, along with bloat- guess what?,.. your body is aromatizing it's own test into estro. And PCT shouldn't need to be explained.

Now, in a LACK of estrogen, gyno CAN be caused by prolactin.

 

[Ziquor]

You've received solid information from several on this forum that you simply disregarded and then you caught an attitude for being schooled. Believe it or not, some of us have been at this a lot longer than you and are obviously better at it than you. BTW, I was in the Army for the better part of a decade, so you can lick my balls in reference to me not having a degree yet at 28. You embarrass yourself with your posts and frustrate me to no end. You can now threaten me or say something else that leaves you looking foolish..........

You just prove exactly what sort of person you are and only embarass yourself. You prove this by talking more garbage when I didn't say ONE specific thing in regards to you in this thread. Why you so paranoid? Why follow me to thread after thread if you don't care? You follow me & post stuff that was said in other thread? Why ruin the forum over something so stupid. You display this type of insecurity and feelings of inadequatecies in thread after thread by continuing to attack me & my charactor over a disagreement we had weeks ago and at 1st fell for it and I responded to your inmature behaviour and I dropped to your level but there's no point for me to continue to. I have no doubt many people on here know more about hormones than I do. I never even began to realize nor care what they even were until a month or two ago. And what's the military have to do with anything in this thread topic? Ok so about me, I have a Bachelors in Psychology and Masters in business. Does anyone here care? No - if you'd like to get to know me or talk about what we all did growing up just PM me. This is about the 6th thread you hijacked just to feel a bit better about something we disagreed on in the past? Please jump in one more thread trying to start an argument with me, please. And you're 28? Wow.

 

[drksun]

A good measure for progestin based chemicals (for me and MANY others);

IF your taking it and you have a hell of a time getting wood, your taking a progestin.

Which is why you NEVER hear of taking one without the use of test.

Designers that are progestins:
TRN
LMG
Tren-X (or 19nor-estro, and its varients)

All your oher black market compounds can be looked up, and it will say if it's progestin or test , or estrogen based

i though we already established that tren-x wasn't a progestin

 

[drksun]

You just prove exactly what sort of person you are and only embarass yourself. You prove this by talking more garbage when I didn't say ONE specific thing in regards to you in this thread. Why you so paranoid? Why follow me to thread after thread if you don't care? You follow me & post stuff that was said in other thread? Why ruin the forum over something so stupid. You display this type of insecurity and feelings of inadequatecies in thread after thread by continuing to attack me & my charactor over a disagreement we had weeks ago and at 1st fell for it and I responded to your inmature behaviour and I dropped to your level but there's no point for me to continue to. I have no doubt many people on here know more about hormones than I do. I never even began to realize nor care what they even were until a month or two ago. And what's the military have to do with anything in this thread topic? Ok so about me, I have a Bachelors in Psychology and Masters in business. Does anyone here care? No - if you'd like to get to know me or talk about what we all did growing up just PM me. This is about the 6th thread you hijacked just to feel a bit better about something we disagreed on in the past? Please jump in one more thread trying to start an argument with me, please. And you're 28? Wow.

the reason why slow-mun is on your ass is because your giving bad info, he proved you wrong in the other thread about tren-x and you refuse to accept it and are still going around give the wrong facts..

 

[Ziquor]

Okay so there's 1 off topic for me & 1 for you, we're even. Back to the topic at hand I have the recent article the PA wrote in regards to Estra-4,9-dien-3,17-dione and it says:

"This is another steroid precursor, a dione to be specific. Diones only have moderately decent conversion, so this product will not possess the full activity of its active metabolite. The active metabolite in this case is the nandrolone derivative Estra-4,9-dien-17b-ol-3-one and according to Vida, it has an anabolic potency equal to methyltestosterone and an androgenic potency 0.1 times.
It does not appear from my knowledge of steroid metabolism that this steroid aromatizes. However the potential for progestational activity is there, as it is with many 19-norandrogens. This stuff has been referred to as a trenbolone precursor, however this is inaccurate because trenbolone has an additional double bond in the structure and the body does not have the capacity (as far as i know) to insert this double bond. Bottom line is that this is a weak hormone with so-so conversion that probably requires 50mg-100mg for physiological effects to be seen in most men. On the upside the fact that it is not 17a-alkylated, so liver toxicity is not a serious issue."

He states that the active is nandrolone, a progestin. I developed my opinions on this based on this info from PA, the Sinners info, and what the manufacture claims. If I'm wrong I'm wrong I really don't care. Why criticize me for it? It's over.

 

[warnerve]

ziquor, just let it go already dude. you asked PA, who might not be popular around here but nonetheless, is one of the leading authorities on these things, if the finigenx clones were progestins. he said no. so why do you keep getting mad at people about this?

 

[Ziquor]

ziquor, just let it go already dude. you asked PA, who might not be popular around here but nonetheless, is one of the leading authorities on these things, if the finigenx clones were progestins. he said no. so why do you keep getting mad at people about this?

Mad? I'm not mad at all. I was responding to the comments about me that appear in thread after thread. Just let it go already.

 

[warnerve]

Mad? I'm not mad at all. I was responding to the comments about me that appear in thread after thread. Just let it go already.

lol, i haven't even said anything before that. it just seemed like you asked PA and then disregarded what he said, if that's not the case, then forget what i said man. all these designer steroids are too confusing anyways...yet always so tempting :smite:

 

[Ziquor]

Yeah I think most of them contain stuff or don't contain what they're supposed to sometimes anyhow, NOT all, but some. I did ask PA this on MD but then someone told me it wasn't really him that was responding anyhow so I dunno. It's the net you can only believe what seems the most true anyhow.

 

[Schism]

Fcuk tren xtreme, and fcuk progestions, and fcuk anyone who says other wise lol...........

 

[slow-mun]

Okay so there's 1 off topic for me & 1 for you, we're even. Back to the topic at hand I have the recent article the PA wrote in regards to Estra-4,9-dien-3,17-dione and it says:

This is another steroid precursor, a dione to be specific. Diones only have moderately decent conversion, so this product will not possess the full activity of its active metabolite. The active metabolite in this case is the nandrolone derivative Estra-4,9-dien-17b-ol-3-one and according to Vida, it has an anabolic potency equal to methyltestosterone and an androgenic potency 0.1 times.
It does not appear from my knowledge of steroid metabolism that this steroid aromatizes. However the potential for progestational activity is there, as it is with many 19-norandrogens. This stuff has been referred to as a trenbolone precursor, however this is inaccurate because trenbolone has an additional double bond in the structure and the body does not have the capacity (as far as i know) to insert this double bond. Bottom line is that this is a weak hormone with so-so conversion that probably requires 50mg-100mg for physiological effects to be seen in most men. On the upside the fact that it is not 17a-alkylated, so liver toxicity is not a serious issue.

He states that the active is nandrolone, a progestin. I developed my opinions on this based on this info from PA, the Sinners info, and what the manufacture claims. If I'm wrong I'm wrong I really don't care. Why criticize me for it? It's over.

Again 19-Nor androgen does not=progestin, nor does that mean nandrolone. Patrick Arnold never stated that in his MD article. BTW, that was most definitely him in the MD forum. FWIW, you were the one that brought into question my education level in many threads as a way of trying to refute any claims that I made contrary to yours. If I wanted any clues on how to grow up, then I certainly would ask a 31 y/o man who frosts his hair and gives out cycle advice when he hasn't even run a cycle before. Being in the Army for eight years means that while others were going to college, that I was in sh!t holes like Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq. We criticize you for being wrong, b/c you never admit to being wrong, and also for giving out cycle advice without having ever run a cycle.

 

[thesinner]

A progestin is merely a synthetic steroid with an affinity for the progestogen receptor, and therefore has no specific structural calling.

 

[pistonpump]

A progestin is merely a synthetic steroid with an affinity for the progestogen receptor, and therefore has no specific structural calling.

aww come on sinner, i would think you would share a lil more than that...

 

[thesinner]

aww come on sinner, i would think you would share a lil more than that...

There's really nothing else to say.

Think of it like hot chicks. A hot chick is merely a female whom you find quite attractive. It is based on your reaction to her. A hot chick does not have a specific eye color, skin color, cup size, waist size, or haircut. It works only by how her appearance appeals to you. You can get a general idea, but that's only it.

Let's also make note that anabolic steroids bind to the androgen receptors, and "full-blown" progestins bind to the progestogen receptors; therefore, if the AAS you are taking is a progestin, it's not an AAS.

 

[FrankJ]

How do you tell by the nomenclature of the PH if its a Progestin-based PH or Test PH.. Know what I mean?

If you start to lactate, its a progestin.

 

[Ziquor]

Why continue this? Again personal shots. Like I ever fosted my hair WTF? Because I have blond hair? And you think because how many PH's someone uses = their knowledge on them? I respect what you did for our country, I never said otherwise. Almost every guy in my family has been in the military. But my original post here and the other one as well where I stated this was a progestin were both posted at the same time, last week. If the info I was going by is wrong, then it's wrong. I actually did admit that, twice now. So why get personal & just keep creating more tension? I certainly wouldn't take cycle advice from me either. That's the point of forums for people to post thier knowledge and their opinions too which everyone's entitled to. Ands since you wanna keep this useless shi! going with no end in sight, I also certainly wouldn't take cycle advice from a 5'8 190-somethin dude who DB presses 100#.

 

[slow-mun]

Ands since you wanna keep this useless shi! going with no end in sight, I also certainly wouldn't take cycle advice from a 5'8 190-somethin dude who DB presses 100#.

Fair enough, I can see that this has digressed from me being wrong, to uneducated, and now weak. I like your style.

 

[ReaperX]

Again 19-Nor androgen does not=progestin, nor does that mean nandrolone. Patrick Arnold never stated that in his MD article. BTW, that was most definitely him in the MD forum. FWIW, you were the one that brought into question my education level in many threads as a way of trying to refute any claims that I made contrary to yours. If I wanted any clues on how to grow up, then I certainly would ask a 31 y/o man who frosts his hair and gives out cycle advice when he hasn't even run a cycle before. Being in the Army for eight years means that while others were going to college, that I was in sh!t holes like Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq. We criticize you for being wrong, b/c you never admit to being wrong, and also for giving out cycle advice without having ever run a cycle.

man I loved this part. This is hilarious.

 

[Ziquor]

Me too it's great, not true but gotta love the effort. And slo I never said any of the above about to you., if you wanna read into it I could say all of the same. If someone says something personal you're natural response is to say something back. For the sake of threads on here let's just end it. If you were right then cool, I said that a couple days ago.