Epi/Sdrol Log

[BigJoeski3]

<I have used both Epi (epidrol) and Sdrol (mdrol) before, so I am aware how I respond to these compounds, I do not recommend this protocol to anyone>

PH/PS history
I ran epi once before, as a standalone, ramped up to 40mg, responded fairly well. I ran mdrol once before, and I seem to be sensitive to it, responding well to 10 to 20mg.

I began by preloading cycle support one serving per day for 5 days.
Started Epi at 10mg for 2 days, 20mg for 2 days and then 30 mg for 10 days.
At this point I started mdrol at 20mg ED, and dropped the Epi to 20mg ED as well.
Dosing protocol is:
AM - 10mg Mdrol, Preworkout - 10mg Mdrol/10mg Epidrol, PM - 10mg Epidrol
Support supplements are AI cycle support, AI POST cycle support, 1 cap Lean Xtreme in the AM, Universal N1t and ZMA Pro before bed. Optimum Nutrtition Pro-Complex pre and post workout, AM and PM.
Diet is not exactly clean, but close.
On my 7th day of mdrol, (2 weeks left), everything is going well, only sides are lethargy, back pumps, and a lil soreness in joints, but nothing too bad. I am at my heaviest at 262, gained about 13 pounds so far.

 

[BigJoeski3]

I was just under 263 today, drank a lot of water today tho.

For pct I have both nolva and clomid. I was planning on doing a nolva/clomid stack, but I'm not sure if its worth doing. Any info would help.
I had planned to run the usual 40/40/20/20 of nolva, with the first 5 days 100mg clomid, and the next five at 50. I also have avtivate extreme and lean xtreme, and ZMA.

 

[BigJoeski3]

No info? Someone out there has to have an opinion.

 

[BigJoeski3]

If anyone does decide to post their opinon, I'd really like to know.

Also, the back pumps have been killin me, I have some taurine, but that doesn;t seem to help, any suggestions here would be appreciated as well.

At this point I am still planning on running nolva and clomid, unless I hear any objections.

 

[stxnas]

I've read posts by Dr.D suggesting clomid then nolva. That being said, I believe that there has been some recent controversy as to if the two should be used closely together.

I'll post back if I can find the more recent "controversery", but don't hold your breath!

 

[BigJoeski3]

thanks, i appreciate it

 

[stxnas]

I did some searching and really couldn't find any reasons to not run them both. I know they both have a long half life though, so I would keep asking and searching until somebody can definitively say yay or nay.

 

[dville04]

well as for the back pumps i'd say it's because as you said you're sensative to it. I ran the original superdrol and 10mg did nothing, 20mg gave me some decent strength gains, and 30mg might've been too much but other than the lethargy it was good. I did get some joint stiffness/soreness and mild back pumps. All I really did was easy stretching, steam room, more bananas, and a good rub down from the gf. Could never get rid of them fully but kinda got used to it and like I said I did those things to suppress them a little bit. I'd try a heating pad on the back and keep trying the taurine.


All in all good luck and stay healthy. My post cycle therapy consisted of a clomid only approach along with support supps. Worked fine for me except I caught the flu during therapy. Some people have suggested towards delayed gyno and blame the nolva for having a part in it but if I were you I'd look more into that because I haven't personally used nolva in post cycle therapy after superdrol.

 

[DfyingGravity]

well as for the back pumps i'd say it's because as you said you're sensative to it. I ran the original superdrol and 10mg did nothing, 20mg gave me some decent strength gains, and 30mg might've been too much but other than the lethargy it was good. I did get some joint stiffness/soreness and mild back pumps. All I really did was easy stretching, steam room, more bananas, and a good rub down from the gf. Could never get rid of them fully but kinda got used to it and like I said I did those things to suppress them a little bit. I'd try a heating pad on the back and keep trying the taurine.


All in all good luck and stay healthy. My post cycle therapy consisted of a clomid only approach along with support supps. Worked fine for me except I caught the flu during therapy. Some people have suggested towards delayed gyno and blame the nolva for having a part in it but if I were you I'd look more into that because I haven't personally used nolva in post cycle therapy after superdrol.

right on! banana's helped me as well. Ive read a ton of SD threads and the general consensus seems to be that high levels of Sdrol/mdrol give extreme back pumps. what is high? well, for a typical guy like myself (193 pounds) over 30 mg. but with your weight, you should be able to handle 30 mg daily. IMO, clomid is better at restoring the proper lipid levels after the sdrol cycle has jacked them up, but most people swear by nolva. i personally like nolva, i just feel better sooner (but to each his own). are you running any test-prop with the cycle to counter lethargy and sluggish libido? I think test-prop goes with everything, but its just my opinion. best of luck to you though, sounds like you have it pretty well under control, except for the back pains, which are the most painful thing in the world. BTW, ive found that a deep tissue massage seems to help with those back pains as well,
best of luck,
DFG

 

[BigJoeski3]

I am now stuck around 265, at I would say 19 or 20% BF, test sais 18%, but if I had to guess I would say 20. Strength is up a little bit. I haven't noticed any difference in libido, but I am taking N1-T and ZMA, the lethargy and back pumps still suck tho, bananas don't do much, but I did notice less pain. I am happy with this cycle so far. This is my last week before pct, I appreciate all the info.

I am sensitive to mdrol, so i think i will keep it at 20mg, I can always run another cycle later on off the same bnottle, since I will still have 50 caps left in the bottle

 

[stxnas]

I am extremely sensitive to superdrol too! 10mg of superdrol killed my back! I actually got rid of the bottle b/c I swore I would never run it again...it keeps finding its way back into my stash though, lol.

What did you figure out for your pct? You still going to do clomid and nolva?

 

[BigJoeski3]

I have heard from other sources that stacking nolva and clomid can be effective and safe, therefore I am thinking

20mg nolva last 5 days of cycle
20mg nolva and 100mg clomid - first 5 days of pct
20mg nolva and 50mg clomid for the next 10 days
20mg nolva for 5 days
20mg nolva EOD for 10 more days

Also running a bottle of Designer's Lean Xtreme and Activate Xtreme, and AI's cycle support

 

[stxnas]

Where'd you get that dosing scheme for the SERMs? It's a little different than what I've seen in the past. When I've seen people use both clomid and nolva it was dosed a little differently. I'll try and dig something up for you real quick. I don't think you need to start the SERM before the cycle ends either.

Nolva's half life is relatively long (I believe just short of a week). You might be better off taking 10mg everyday instead 20 EOD those last 10 days.

Don't add the Lean Xtreme after about two weeks into post cycle therapy.

If you don't have your Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support yet I would suggest checking out my sig for discount over at Nutraplanet.

EDIT: Actually, after looking at your original post again I would suggest just using clomid the whole way through...or for the first two weeks at 150mg week one and 100mg week two. Then jump on the nolva at 20mg for weeks three and four. This will help out your liver some and should still get your boys back.

 

[BigJoeski3]

That sounds good, that was my alternate.

I'm gonna run clomid then nolva, 150 then 100, then nolva 40 then 20

Why not run the lean xtreme immediately??

I have cycle support, I have been running it since a week before epi

 

[stxnas]

Some say right away others say wait. I can't recall off the top of my head, but will post back if I can find it.

The Cycle Support throughout is a good idea and necessary IMO. SERMs are hepatotoxic and so was your cycle, obviously. It'll also continue to help with blood pressue, prostate, etc etc

 

[BigJoeski3]

I would like to hear why on the lean xtreme.

I have been running 1 cap of 7-keto every morning (sugg use is 3 per day) just to help keep cortisol down and I have gained less around the midsection that I ever have on ps/ph. (7-keto is basicall the same as 7-hydroxy dhea)


"Some people have suggested towards delayed gyno and blame the nolva for having a part in it" - Dville04

Can nolva cause some gyno flare up? I thought it protected against it. If so I am gonna stick to just the clomid.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Can nolva cause some gyno flare up? I thought it protected against it. If so I am gonna stick to just the clomid.

Nolva prevents it from happening after a cycle (estro rebound)and in some cases can calm down existing gyno

 

[stxnas]

My POSTULATE as to why...

I would like to hear why on the lean xtreme.

"Some people have suggested towards delayed gyno and blame the nolva for having a part in it" - Dville04

Can nolva cause some gyno flare up? I thought it protected against it. If so I am gonna stick to just the clomid.

I can't find any of those posts about waiting to start the cort blocker. I guess it was on another board.

'm guessing that the reasoning behind the delay is that you're body is still in an anabolic state immediately following a cycle and/or already in a state of lowered cortisol. Waiting to add in the cortisol later in post cycle therapy wouldn't run the chance of eliminating too much cortisol. Cortisol is similar to estrogen in the way that they both typically carry a bad connotation in this industry. What many people don't realize is that each are still necessary and eliminating either completely could cause otherwise avoidable issues.

You're likely seeing a success with the cort blocker b/c you've chosen to run it at a low dose. This means that you probably still have some cortisol in your system that's able to carry out its necessary functions.

...and the nolva = gyno...I have always been under the assumption that nolva was used to treat gyno.

 

[robdog]

What is with the influx of tards running epi and sd together? How can you not see that this is a bad idea?

 

[BigJoeski3]

I guess thanks for your input robdog........


Thats exactly what I thought about the nolva. The cortisol thing makes sense.

I have five days left at 20mg both Epi and Mdrol

Then I will run clomid at 150mg for five days, 100mg for five days, then switching to nolva for 15 days at 20mg, and then 10mg EOD over a ten day period.

Last time I ran Mdrol, I had a wicked cortisol rebound, so I think I will run the Lean Xtreme right away, (a slight anabolic loss is ok if I keep lean), and I will also run the Ativate Xtreme

I was 265 again today, but I feel/look harder. This cycle has been the closest in lean gains since my first Mdrol cycle. Gained about 15-16lbs so far, and my abs have come out more than they were before the cycle.

 

[dville04]

Like I said look more into it cuz I personally have no experience with the nolva and superdrol together. nolva won't actually reverse gyno it will just, in most cases, prevent it from happening. There was just several people talking about having some delayed gyno and they ran nolva only as their post cycle therapy along with support supps. Clomid alone treated me very well after superdrol, we'll see if there is any delayed gyno, so far so good. :head:

let me see if i can find the posts on delayed gyno... might have been on another forum tho.

 

[dville04]

also there is no way nolva would actually "cause" the gyno, but maybe it didn't block the receptors well enough and glandular tissue began to develop.

 

[BigJoeski3]

Thats what I thought, got me worried for sec there tho.

Couple of days left, back pumps haven't been that bad in the past few days, insomnia is kicking in again tho.

Still planning on running the clomid for 10 days, then nolva with a EOD taper down.

I was 266 today. After a couple of weeks into PCT I am going to hit cardio, mostly HIIT training. I wanna get back down to about 12-13%BF, since I am about 18 now. This cycle has treated me well tho.

I believe that the support supps have been the factor that greatly improved this cycles quality over my previous cycles. I usually run cycle support with the compound and thats it. Now with the test booster, 7-keto, ZMA, I feel alot better throughout, hopefully pct will be a breeze.

Thanks for all the info guys, I appreciate it.

 

[BigJoeski3]

Last day of cycle was yesterday, i was 268, started the clomid last night, lean xtreme and activate xtreme this morning. Gained aboue 18 lbs with little to no sides so far. Great cycle. I was very happy with it.

 

[thundergod]

What is with the influx of tards running epi and sd together? How can you not see that this is a bad idea?

Not nice to call people "tards" Robdog!:smite: Bigjoeski is getting good results from it and the dosages are low enough. 20 mg. of each is NOT dangerous nor overkill IMHO!! I'm also getting ready to run an epi/superdrol combo in a little over a month and looking forward to it as well. By the way robdog, how big are YOU? I'm 6'3 and 265 lbs. with over 20 years of lifting under my big blue powerbelt. Can deadlift 610, squat 575, and bench 375. You up there with me, Mr. Know-it-all?:think:

 

[Australian made]

Not nice to call people "tards" Robdog!:smite: Bigjoeski is getting good results from it and the dosages are low enough. 20 mg. of each is NOT dangerous nor overkill IMHO!! I'm also getting ready to run an epi/superdrol combo in a little over a month and looking forward to it as well. By the way robdog, how big are YOU? I'm 6'3 and 265 lbs. with over 20 years of lifting under my big blue powerbelt. Can deadlift 610, squat 575, and bench 375. You up there with me, Mr. Know-it-all?:think:

You tell him big fella!