I finished up post cycle therapy for a 4 week Epi cylce a little over two months ago (right before Christmas). Yesterday I noticed a strange feeling spot on my right pec. I'm not positive it's anything but it doesn't feel the same as my left pick. It feels like a tiny bump. I checked constantly during my cycle and my post cycle for signs of gyno and never noticed anything. Is it possible for it to have recently formed this long after a cycle? Also Epi isn't really know to cause gyno. Any advice? It could also possibly be pubertal gyno that I never noticed before I guess, just not sure. It's not noticeable visually, so is there anything I have to worry about; if it is gyno, will it grow? will affect my ability to cycle later? Also I remember hearing about a way to possibly reverse gyno, but I don't really remember much about it other than it involved Letro. Is this worth considering and if so can someone possibly explain the idea to me?
I got gyno from an epi 4 weeker. Start taking nolvadex right away, if you suspect it. Mine popped up about 2 months after my cycle, (proper post cycle therapy of coarse), but it grew very aggressively. Like one day my nipples were itchy, just thought detergent or some irritant, then the next day my nipple looked funny, like there was something behind it. Throughout that day, it got worse, and by the next day I basically had a t*tty. The first day I noticed it (day after itch), I took 60mg of nolva, followed by a few more days at 40mg. I had some 6-oxo laying around so I threw that in for 2 weeks to get my E level down, and I continued with the Nolva for 3 weeks tapering all the way down to 5mg/day, making 4 weeks total. After like 3 days @ forty mg, it started to shrink, but took the full coarse of therapy to dissappear. Since then, I've had some sensitivity issues with the nips, but no itch, or further gyno. It was scary though, and def. made me think about taking steroids again. But that whole summer, I was playing w/ test boosters, AIs, I did a short cycle in June, was taking RPM, so my hormones were all over the place. So the lesson I learned was that off time means off time. I take a full 6 months off between supplements, hormonal or otherwise. Except for the basics like protein, creatine, ancillaries, of coarse. Hope this helps.
well hey lil psych, i've still been looking at myself and it looks like theres something behind both my nips, but no itching, lump or anything. it looks like its fat behind it but it never looked like this before my sd cycle. i dont feel like a marble or anything. how can you tell if it really is gyno? looks like gyno, doesnt feel like it.
Thanks for the response lil psych. I don't have any Nolva, or any other SERM for that matter currently on hand. I thought I was in the clear being this far past PCT. The site I normally order from is out of stock currently. Is there anything I can do in the meantime? If it stays how it is then I'm not really concerned, I just don't want it to grow or cause future problems.
well hey lil psych, i've still been looking at myself and it looks like theres something behind both my nips, but no itching, lump or anything. it looks like its fat behind it but it never looked like this before my superdrol cycle. i dont feel like a marble or anything. how can you tell if it really is gyno? looks like gyno, doesnt feel like it.
Mine was painful, and I could def. feel a lump behind the nip, and after a day in a half, my nipple was the size of maybe a little smaller than half a golf ball. Definately noticeable. If yours just look puffy, I would just be on guard, and take action at the first sign of swelling or pain.
Thanks for the response lil psych. I don't have any Nolva, or any other SERM for that matter currently on hand. I thought I was in the clear being this far past post cycle therapy. The site I normally order from is out of stock currently. Is there anything I can do in the meantime? If it stays how it is then I'm not really concerned, I just don't want it to grow or cause future problems.
Hmm... Search for my gyno thread. There were some good suggestions, and some otc stuff that I took to reduce the symptoms...but I would do what you gotta do to get your hands on a serm quick. Good luck bro, I gotta sign off, but I'll be back later.
Yeah, the nipples are larger, but when i press on it, i don't feel anything but subcutaneous fat overtop the muscle. Do you think ATD might be able to help?
I know I mentioned it earlier, but what about Letro. It's in stock so I can place an order immediately and start it as soon as it comes in. Any opinions? Ideas?
Gyno is hard. If you squeeze behind the nipple with your thumb and index finger you will feel a hard lump like a marble. You can't miss it. In most cases it starts off in the left side, not the right.
I wouldn't say its really hard like a marble. Just more like a little bump. Do you think I'm just being paranoid? Anymore suggestions guys? I don't have a SERM on me right now so what would be my best option? Should I order one and start using it as soon as it comes in? If so which would be best? Nolva isn't in stock.
I know I mentioned it earlier, but what about Letro. It's in stock so I can place an order immediately and start it as soon as it comes in. Any opinions? Ideas?
I don't know, you may not be at the letro stage yet, plus you need a serm to use inconjunction w/ it, or the gyno will come back even worse, unless you taper very incrementally. I know this sh*t sucks, but its an inevitable path for a lot of us. Can you give me a list of things readily available to you to see if we can work out a plan?
Thats the problem, I don't really have anything on hand right now. I've been off cycle for a while and wasn't planning on starting a new one for a while.
I can place an order for Letro and Clomid tonight and start it as soon as it arrives. Do you think this would be a good route? Just kinda worried and unsure about what to do. I could run the Letro and then once I quit I could run the Clomid. Ideas/thoughts?
I used IBE's Epi. Worked great. Hardly no sides. Didn't notice any shutdown until about the beginning of the fourth week. Put on a solid 10 pounds. PCT went smooth. Libido was back within about a week, kept about 8 pounds, but now over two months later I'm noticing this. I'm guessing this could have been from earlier and just gone unnoticed until now but I doubt it.
However, I know this sounds weird but I think it feels smaller now than it did earlier today and yesterday. I still think I will place an order. I'll pick up some Letro and maybe some anastrozole. Those are the only two available right now. Thoughts?
Looking at this and some other posts I think I've got gyno as well. But I think I've had this for a while, and I've never taken anything hormonal, just the basics + the stuff I'm logging right now.
I've got a small tender nodule under the left nipple, and a larger one under the right that isn't nearly as tender, more broken up it seems though.
It doesn't seem to be progressing/getting worse, should I worry about this or just see what happens with it?
Mine just pisses me off because my nipples are puffy. If it doesn't concern you then don't worry. My mates have been giving me **** about my gyno for about four years now so it's about time I do something about it
Mine just pisses me off because my nipples are puffy. If it doesn't concern you then don't worry. My mates have been giving me **** about my gyno for about four years now so it's about time I do something about it
Australia may suck on the supplement department, but we do alright when it comes to medical care. You can have the procedure done for around $400. I'l have the ultrasound done tomorrow night and get back to you with the results.
Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said: Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.
1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc
Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem
I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.
With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.
Things To Note
1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!
2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT
Ok guys. I got my Letro in today. How do you suggest I go about dosing it?
Also the place I ordered from, sent it in a little bottle with a dropper. There is no markings on the dropper for measurements. So I'm assuming I need to go get a syringe. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Ok guys. I got my Letro in today. How do you suggest I go about dosing it?
Also the place I ordered from, sent it in a little bottle with a dropper. There is no markings on the dropper for measurements. So I'm assuming I need to go get a syringe. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
correct, an oral syringe. usually the dropper holds 1ml but thats just not accurate.
THere are some threads here that talk about killing gyno with letro....search for it but i would say right now to start with 2.5mg ed until it begins to subside then you would slowly taper off.
I started at 2.5 mg today, but from what I've seen thats too high. So tomorrow I'm gonna drop back to 1 mg and then work back up to 2.5 mg. Anyone see any problems with dropping back down and working back up to 2.5 mg over the next couple days.
It hasn't even been an entire day yet but I can already tell a difference. Letro is amazingly strong. I'll update again tomorrow.
I started at 2.5 mg today, but from what I've seen thats too high. So tomorrow I'm gonna drop back to 1 mg and then work back up to 2.5 mg. Anyone see any problems with dropping back down and working back up to 2.5 mg over the next couple days.
It hasn't even been an entire day yet but I can already tell a difference. Letro is amazingly strong. I'll update again tomorrow.
Dude, you've got to start low. At least 0.5, then work up to 2.5, then back down to 0.5. If I remember correctly, you're not following up with a serm, so if I were you, I'd even go to 0.25mg for a couple days at the end. This sh!t is no joke man, it takes estrogen to ZERO, which is not good. If your not careful with your taper, you'll be worst off than when you started, when estrogen surges as you come off the cycle. Not trying to be a d!ck, but I know a little about it. Your cycle should look like this. 0.5,0.5,0.5,1,1,1,1.5,1.5,1.5,2,2,2,2.5,2.5,2.5,2.5,2,2,2,1.5,1.5,1.5,1,1,1,0.5,0.5,0.5,0.25,0.25,0.25,0.25(0.25=0.1mL)
there is a thread here, maybe its called "getting rid of gyno what worked for me" there are a few famous protocols out there with letro you just gotta dig. 2.5mg letro is alot if trying to control estro on a cycle but youre trying to RID gyno with an AI, imo id be doing 2.5mg ed but ive never tried it and im no expert but id expect you want to pretty much erradicate estrogen if gyno destrution is the goal......or why not use a SERM? you see what im saying?
Dude, you've got to start low. At least 0.5, then work up to 2.5, then back down to 0.5. If I remember correctly, you're not following up with a serm, so if I were you, I'd even go to 0.25mg for a couple days at the end. This sh!t is no joke man, it takes estrogen to ZERO, which is not good. If your not careful with your taper, you'll be worst off than when you started, when estrogen surges as you come off the cycle. Not trying to be a d!ck, but I know a little about it. Your cycle should look like this. 0.5,0.5,0.5,1,1,1,1.5,1.5,1.5,2,2,2,2.5,2.5,2.5,2.5,2,2,2,1.5,1.5,1.5,1,1,1,0.5,0.5,0.5,0.25,0.25,0.25,0.25(0.25=0.1mL)
I understand man. No disrespect taken. 2.5 mg was the only suggestion I was given and PP is a very smart individual so I went with it. I've found a couple other threads about the topic since then and they all agree with what you've said, which is why I'm dropping the dosage back down a little bit and going to ramp up slowly and then taper off extremely slowly just like you outlined. Thanks for all your help LilPsych.
One more question. I'm not sure of the half-life of Letro, so is it fine to take the entire days does at once?
Also thanks for all the help guys. It is truly appreciated. This is my first time experiencing gyno and it is certainly unknown territory for me. So I am tremendously thankful for all the replies.
One more question. I'm not sure of the half-life of Letro, so is it fine to take the entire days does at once?
Also thanks for all the help guys. It is truly appreciated. This is my first time experiencing gyno and it is certainly unknown territory for me. So I am tremendously thankful for all the replies.
Yeah, I noticed someone here that said it felt as though it was more broken up. thats what i'm getting, does that mean anything? or is it just different for different people?
Yeah, I noticed someone here that said it felt as though it was more broken up. thats what i'm getting, does that mean anything? or is it just different for different people?
Was wondering if anyone can help me out..I took my first cycle of superdrol back in Sept then did a cycle of H-drol in November..At first my left nipple was sore but then went away. I havent taken anything in the last month and a half but am still noticing a lot of tenderness in my left nipple. I do not have any lump or lowering of the nipple. What I am experiencing is tenderness and when I touch it or push on it extends outward. I am thinking that I dont have gyno but it is possibly developing. I see that you guys really have a lot of knowledge on this and I am really starting to get nervous, any help you be great
Was wondering if anyone can help me out..I took my first cycle of superdrol back in Sept then did a cycle of H-drol in November..At first my left nipple was sore but then went away. I havent taken anything in the last month and a half but am still noticing a lot of tenderness in my left nipple. I do not have any lump or lowering of the nipple. What I am experiencing is tenderness and when I touch it or push on it extends outward. I am thinking that I dont have gyno but it is possibly developing. I see that you guys really have a lot of knowledge on this and I am really starting to get nervous, any help you be great
1. go see a doc (i know, this wasn't what you wanted to hear)
2. self-treatment with a strong AI, if you might not even have it, may not be worth the possible sides. many swear on those protocols, though.
3. what i would do personally is:
3.a. get raloxifene (pharma-grade, if you can), 30 day supply at 60mg
3.b. take 120mg the 1st day
3.c. take 60mg/day the next 28 days. take some quality fish-oil caps with it. stop smoking (if you do).
3.d. get cabergoline (pharma-grade sogilen or cabaser, if you can), 4mg
3.e. take 0.5mg twice/week (every 3-4 days)
3.f. reevaluate your position near the end of your self-treatment.
3.g. do not break treatment prematurely unless you get sides (which you should not from ralo at that dose). run full course even if you feel better after some days.
3.h. now the part no-one wants to hear: repeat step b and f up to 9 months if unsuccessful.
i know that this condition may cause some panic, which in turn leads to the wish for strong and quick measures, such as using strong and high-dosed AIs for a short time.
my personal opinion is: it may take quite some time for this condition to reverse. short-term treatments (i.e. treatments halted after initial success) may simply set oneself up for recurrence. if i had to be prepared for a long-term treatment, i'd look at the one with best long-term applicability.
again, personally, if i'd get to nervous for the long-road approach and started to think it may be faster if i lowered by serum level estradio by using an AI in conjunction with the SERM, i'd combine it with adex (if i could get it) at 1mg/day during month 1, 0.5mg/day for the following months if condition hasn't reversed after month 1 (IMHO only likely for slight/developing cases).
also, IMHO, no gyno protocol is complete without prolactin control as well. those who shy away from long-term cabergoline due to cost/side issues may wish to look at P5P after the initial month (which IMHO should always be done with a pharma-strength anti-prolactin).
Note: i have used ralo, torm, nolva, cabergoline, atd, 6-bromo, 6-oxo myself, but not for gyno treatment so far, so take my advice with a big grain of salt.
Hey guys, this is drewh10987, I had to change my user name and create a new profile. I was having problems with my other one.
But anyways, thought I'd give you guys an update. I've been at 2.5 mg for about 4 or 5 days now and I am definitely noticing my gyno reducing. It's not completely gone, but it's definitely smaller, less noticeable, and a lot less sensitive. I am going to continue at 2.5 mg until it is either gone or until I feel it is no longer helping and then taper off very very slowly to avoid rebound. Thanks to all who have helped.
For the guys who experienced gyno, how long was your cycle and what was your dosing like on cycle?
Just wondering if this has a significant bearing on the delayed onset of gyno.
well, I ran m-drol for 2 days short of 3 weeks. i think my pct would have been successful had i gotten true nolva, now i got a slight bt problem and still waiting on my meds.
Hey guys, this is drewh10987, I had to change my user name and create a new profile. I was having problems with my other one.
But anyways, thought I'd give you guys an update. I've been at 2.5 mg for about 4 or 5 days now and I am definitely noticing my gyno reducing. It's not completely gone, but it's definitely smaller, less noticeable, and a lot less sensitive. I am going to continue at 2.5 mg until it is either gone or until I feel it is no longer helping and then taper off very very slowly to avoid rebound. Thanks to all who have helped.
I finished PCT over two months before this started. It was pretty standard, four weeks of Torem plus all the basics. My gyno issues started here recently, two months after PCT. I'm currently running Letro at 2.5 mg per day. I ramped up to 2.5 mg over a couple days and once I feel the gyno is either gone or is no longer improving, I'll continue for a couple more days and then very slowly taper off to prevent estro rebound.
edit: nevermind i saw you said $400. Damn thats cheap. I might as well wait till i come home and get the sucker cut out. Is that for both nips or just the one? they do that on medicare or what?
I finished post cycle therapy over two months before this started. It was pretty standard, four weeks of Torem plus all the basics. My gyno issues started here recently, two months after PCT. I'm currently running Letro at 2.5 mg per day. I ramped up to 2.5 mg over a couple days and once I feel the gyno is either gone or is no longer improving, I'll continue for a couple more days and then very slowly taper off to prevent estro rebound.
i would do a pct to at the end of the letro..... i would run nolva for a couple weeks i am about to start the same cycle with letro and everything i read same to make sure you run a pct with this to.... since it wipes out estrogen it would be hard to taper that slow in order to have no rebound
Sorry guys another new user name. Drewh10987 had my name in it and I decided I didn't like that and MovinWeight is already taken so...
Well the gyno has stopped shrinking. It is certainly smaller than it was before the Letro run. I think I'm going to run it for another day or two at 2.5 mg and then start tapering down. I'm also going to place an order for Nolva tomorrow so I can run a slight PCT because after thinking about it and consider what everyone has said, I want to make absolutely sure I don't have any estro rebound when I come off the Letro.
What type of dosages should I run and for how long?
Should I taper the Letro doses down before I start the Nolva or is that not needed?
Should I start the Nolva the day after I quit Nolva or should I start a couple days before or in some other way?
edit: nevermind i saw you said $400. Damn thats cheap. I might as well wait till i come home and get the sucker cut out. Is that for both nips or just the one? they do that on medicare or what?
I ran H-drol for 3 weeks at 2 caps a day, I didnt exceed that amount throught the cycle. During I did not notice any possible sides of gyno but 1 month after is when I started feeling to soreness and tenderness on my left nipple. I understand that not running a SERM was 100% wrong and I have to move forward from here. I guess my question is should I try and find some nolva and run it even though I havent taken anything since Jan 7??
Hey, as it turns out, I had gyno before my cycle, I just didnt realize it. I had gotten paranoid. I looked at videos of about 2 years ago, and it looked the same. That's why it threw me off when I didnt get soreness or tenderness or anything. So it's looking like a SERM prolly won't help.
First off.. I don't think any of us are doctors.. I don't think any of us can diagnose you.
Why don't you go to a doctor?
Also, just because your nipple is tender or itchy does not imply that you have gyno. Everyone has fat in their chest. Everyone has different shaped nipples, just because one person has a nipple that is such size and it itches and leads to gyno, does not mean that when your nipple gets to such size you will aquire gyno. See a doctor if you are worried.
The chances are more likely that you will get Gyno from a rebound due to running a serm for no reason.
Can somone tell me some info on some things,im new to this and im on p plex and just starting m drol and i read about gyno,and the stuff i got for my pct is inhibitor e and im on my 2nd day of m drol,im also taking a 100 mg of milk thistle,is what im on bad stuff,and do i need to stop taking it,and try somthing elese,can somone please give me some advice on what to do,my buddy didnt tell me about the side effects that came with this.I thought i was getting a supplement.
Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said: Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.
1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc
Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem
I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.
With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.
Things To Note
1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!
2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT
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