Bulking & Cutting in One Cycle?

[Kata1yst]

Has anyone ran a 10-15 week cycle which included bulking in the beginning and leaning out towards the end? I searched everywhere on this forum and I couldn't find anything, especially regarding maintaining gains during post cycle therapy with this type of cycle.

I was thinking of something like:

Test Enanthate: Weeks 1-12 @ 300mgs
Nandrolone Deca: Weeks 1-10 @ 150 mgs (shoulder and knee pain)
Superdrol: Weeks 3-6
Clenbuterol: Weeks 9-11
Tamoxifen: use when necessary

I will also lower cals each week starting week 7 & increase cardio gradually

 

[Kata1yst]

Aaaaaaanybody...?

 

[PhilABowl]

So you want to bulk up, lose weight, AND maintain gains, am I understanding that correctly?

 

[Kata1yst]

Yeah, pretty much. I figured I could load up on calories up to week 6, then reduce them every week and increase cardio gradually. I'm worried how this would affect my PCT therapy and if I'm gonna lose a lot of gains then I may opt to not waste all this gear.

Someone also recommended I run test @350mg & deca @420. He's a pretty big guy (lean @ 240-260 or something). I'm just not sure I need that much nandrolone for a cutting phase(weeks 7-12), and I'm uncertain of its anabolic properties if I were to reduce it to 150mg for weeks 7-12.
Nandrolone deca also hits its peak at around 7 weeks (roidcalc).

 

[PhilABowl]

I wouldn't try and invent the wheel for beginners cycles... go with test and a dianabol kickstart, post cycle therapy, watch your diet, and see where you're at. Then do something like clenbuterol and Winstrol depot. But I defer to people here who actually know what they're talking about...

 

[pistonpump]

that cycle looks awful.

150mg deca? are you kidding me?

why is superdrol started at week 3? that makes no sense either.

 

[Kata1yst]

that cycle looks awful.

150mg deca? are you kidding me?

why is superdrol started at week 3? that makes no sense either.

Yeah I know this cycle sounds wierd, but the deca is mainly to help w/ my joints. My buddy told me to run it at around 400mg. That's probably what I'll do.

As for the superdrol I wanted to start it somewhere near where my test & nandrolone levels are really starting to buildup. That way during my 2nd & 3rd week on superdrol, my testosterone levels should provide good synergy- I hope! I've been using "roidcalc" to check these figures. Personally I'd like to run it w/ test propionate but my $$$ is scarce right now.

 

[Kata1yst]

I wouldn't try and invent the wheel for beginners cycles... go with test and a dianabol kickstart, post cycle therapy, watch your diet, and see where you're at. Then do something like clenbuterol and Winstrol depot. But I defer to people here who actually know what they're talking about...

I've done a successful cycle like that in the past. Unfortunately, I'll be at the beach 2 weeks after this cycle is over and that's why I'm trying to incorporate bulking/cutting together.

 

[Kata1yst]

Thanks for the input guys...I've been playing with the numbers (half-life of esters) trying to determine when & how much I should dose to make this an effective cycle. I've considered even frontloading enanthate in the beginning & starting deca at weeks 3-4 w/ a big initial dose.

I think test & superdrol should work great together (from other threads...) and having deca kick in after the superdrol run would be ideal. I however, don't want to experiment too much. Your inputs are greatly appreciated:thumbsup:

 

[sbv]

if joints are your main concern, you should lower the test to 150-200 and up the deca.

it's said that anything above 200mg test will inhibit the strenghtening effects deca has on your joints. i dont have the personal experience to back this up, but it's what science says.

superdrol week 3 is a bit weird. i understand the reasoning, but I think you'd be better off starting with it on week 1, because you'll make great weight/strenght gains off the superdrol alone, before the test kicks in. if you arrange it so that both kick in at the same time, the end gains will be inferior imo

 

[pudzian2]

yea too much test will just start to fight the collagen synthesis that nandrolone and boldenone potentiate. I think that your cycle needs to be re-thought. I do not mean any offense But i think that there is more to it than gear if you really want to add a moderate amount of LBM and then cut fat weight and drop water in one cycle(even in 15 weeks). the compounds you are using take a long time to kick in for one thing. Superdrol is poison IMO, and clenbuterol isnt necessarily heart healthy. I think that you may want to consider NOT using superdrol. Lets give ourselves 15 weeks to work with for conversation sake:

weeks 1-2: front-load test enanthate at twice the dose for the first two weeks, whilst kicking off with a bit of prop and some dbol (one, the other, or both). that way you arent wasting time. after the two weeks you can drop the test prop, and continue on the dbol until about week 4-5. at this point you should have enanthate in full swing.

so then:
weeks 1-10: nandrolone deconate (or maybe consider boldenone. Minus the hunger, it is a clean, safe compound that is also good for joints)-nandrolone is more anabolic though....

if you have experience with clenbuterol and it treats you well then go ahead and use that. If not consider ECA+androgen assisted morning cardio, lots of BCAA's and stuff like DCP, sesamin, and a carb cycling diet. Using a very anabolic compound like nandrolone will assist you in holding on to your LBM gains. I think to really accomplish your goal, your diet it going to be #1 priority. In order to put on as much LBM as possible before cutting you can consider 'priming' before this cycle with a bit of carb cycling (this way you can perfect it for yourself before doing it when you cut). with Test and dbol you should blow right up (obviously some water too but use an AI!, Have tamox on hand but an AI would probably be better for you IMO). then you can just ride out the test and the nandrolone until about the mid-way point when you can begin to carb cycle while incorporating the cut-assist compounds mentioned above. If you want to use something like superdrol (depending how you react to it) use it to book end your cycle as the esters clear. if you dont want to use an oral, then prop or test suspension can work with an AI, but may not be ideal since you wanna finish being as dry as possible (superdrol is good for this).

you could always just ride out the esters with no form of bookend>....

btw I dont know your thoughts on tren but it is so anabolic and androgenic that some people report making LBM gains whilst dropping fat.

 

[Kata1yst]

if joints are your main concern, you should lower the test to 150-200 and up the deca.

it's said that anything above 200mg test will inhibit the strenghtening effects deca has on your joints. i dont have the personal experience to back this up, but it's what science says.

superdrol week 3 is a bit weird. i understand the reasoning, but I think you'd be better off starting with it on week 1, because you'll make great weight/strenght gains off the superdrol alone, before the test kicks in. if you arrange it so that both kick in at the same time, the end gains will be inferior imo

Thanks, I wasn't aware that test inhibits deca's joint releaf. I may also consider running superdrol in the beginning or at the end of the cycle now...I'll think about it some more. Thanks for your input..this is what I want!!!

 

[Kata1yst]

weeks 1-2: front-load test enanthate at twice the dose for the first two weeks, whilst kicking off with a bit of prop and some dbol (one, the other, or both). that way you arent wasting time. after the two weeks you can drop the test prop, and continue on the dbol until about week 4-5. at this point you should have enanthate in full swing.

The thought of front-loading is sounding better and better. This way I can use the test with high calories for mass gains, and wait until the nandrolone kicks in so I can do more cardio and stuff. The test at that point should still provide some fat burning properties as well.

weeks 1-10: nandrolone deconate (or maybe consider boldenone. Minus the hunger, it is a clean, safe compound that is also good for joints)-nandrolone is more anabolic though....

You're right about boldenone...I only have deca for this run though.

if you have experience with clenbuterol and it treats you well then go ahead and use that. If not consider ECA+androgen assisted morning cardio, lots of BCAA's and stuff like DCP, sesamin, and a carb cycling diet.

I have never used clenbuterol but have held on to the stuff for some time now. I'll give it a try...if it bugs me I'll drop it. I handle stimulants pretty well though.

I think to really accomplish your goal, your diet it going to be #1 priority. In order to put on as much LBM as possible before cutting you can consider 'priming' before this cycle with a bit of carb cycling (this way you can perfect it for yourself before doing it when you cut).

I can't agree with you more. I've lost over 22lbs by just dieting alone in the past w/ no anabolics or stimulants. Diet is key and fortunately I have a high metabolism.

If you want to use something like superdrol (depending how you react to it) use it to book end your cycle as the esters clear. if you dont want to use an oral, then prop or test suspension can work with an AI, but may not be ideal since you wanna finish being as dry as possible (superdrol is good for this).

The thought of superdrol to book end a cylcle sounds promising. I've never used an oral(other than a SERM or AI) at the end of a cycle. Would it interfere w/ keeping gains? I've read a post regarding oral steroids raising cortisol levels.

btw I dont know your thoughts on tren but it is so anabolic and androgenic that some people report making LBM gains whilst dropping fat.

I love tren but I can't afford it right now. Thanks so much for a well-thought response!

 

[pudzian2]

The thought of front-loading is sounding better and better. This way I can use the test with high calories for mass gains, and wait until the nandrolone kicks in so I can do more cardio and stuff. The test at that point should still provide some fat burning properties as well.


You're right about boldenone...I only have deca for this run though.


I have never used clenbuterol but have held on to the stuff for some time now. I'll give it a try...if it bugs me I'll drop it. I handle stimulants pretty well though.


I can't agree with you more. I've lost over 22lbs by just dieting alone in the past w/ no anabolics or stimulants. Diet is key and fortunately I have a high metabolism.


The thought of superdrol to book end a cylcle sounds promising. I've never used an oral(other than a SERM or AI) at the end of a cycle. Would it interfere w/ keeping gains? I've read a post regarding oral steroids raising cortisol levels.

anytime bro..

Superdrol (sides aside) would provide a great end to your cutting. It will harden you up and dry you out. It should also help you maintain your lbm on the calorie restricted diet. Keep in mind that your diet needs to be spot on when the androgens are done. (metabolic rates change a and so does caloric requirements). I do not know about it raising cortisol. I take cortisol management supps like 2-3g vit C per day, lots of green tea and anti-oxidants, and in PCT I love retain 2

 

[PhilABowl]

Let me tell you something about deca - there is no point looking good at the beach if your veinershnitzel ain't gonna work man. I would bulk, then cut.

 

[pudzian2]

haha that is true. OR just use EQ

 

[pistonpump]

ive used eq and im giving deca a run now instead. I think itll be a lil more effective in putting on mass than eq.

 

[Kata1yst]

ive used eq and im giving deca a run now instead. I think itll be a lil more effective in putting on mass than eq.

EQ doesn't give a whole lot of mass. It made me look pretty great though...1 1/2 years ago. I'm really psyched about deca and & test!

 

[Kata1yst]

anytime bro..

Superdrol (sides aside) would provide a great end to your cutting. It will harden you up and dry you out. It should also help you maintain your lbm on the calorie restricted diet. Keep in mind that your diet needs to be spot on when the androgens are done. (metabolic rates change a and so does caloric requirements). I do not know about it raising cortisol. I take cortisol management supps like 2-3g vit C per day, lots of green tea and anti-oxidants, and in post cycle therapy I love retain 2

I'll probably give retain 2 a shot. I'd like to use superdrol at the end of my cycle for the "hard look" but I really need an oral mass builder for the first few weeks while my cals are really high.

I can't buy more gear to incorporate in the beginning...all I have are designers/PS like superdrol, halodrol, & epistane (all clones).

 

[Kata1yst]

Let me tell you something about deca - there is no point looking good at the beach if your veinershnitzel ain't gonna work man. I would bulk, then cut.

Hah! I know what u mean. I'll be wearing boxers underneath my swimming trunks so no one could see the little guy. Rise & Aspire 36 work great for getting it up if you're having problems.

 

[PhilABowl]

Yes, but if you want to look good at the beach, and it works, girls/guys will want to see Das Hundespitzer, and then you won't be able to explain away as cold water shrinkage. Just make sure your jaw muscles are strong lol.

 

[Kata1yst]

Yes, but if you want to look good at the beach, and it works, girls/guys will want to see Das Hundespitzer, and then you won't be able to explain away as cold water shrinkage. Just make sure your jaw muscles are strong lol.

:toofunny:....My girlfriend will be down there with me and I've warned her about deca. Hopefully I can plan this so I'll finish PCT before I go. I'm heading to the beach in June.

I've also been bulking since March '07. A trip to the hospital in the summer messed my schedule up from July to October. I couldn't eat due to stomache pain, I lost some muscle, and put on some fat. It's time to look great!

 

[pistonpump]

im on test 750 week and deca 300 week right now, week 2. I didnt plan on cycling so soon but time requires me to do it now....so that im ready by summer to show off the bod lol..Im actually thinking of bulking then cutting as well. Probably taper off the calories as the weeks go by and do more of a recomp. I plan to add in some winstrol tabs too, so i can take advantage of the deca joint help. Hope to be around 7% bf and add about 10lbs lean muscle by May/June.

 

[PhilABowl]

:toofunny:....My girlfriend will be down there with me and I've warned her about deca. Hopefully I can plan this so I'll finish post cycle therapy before I go. I'm heading to the beach in June.

I've also been bulking since March '07. A trip to the hospital in the summer messed my schedule up from July to October. I couldn't eat due to stomache pain, I lost some muscle, and put on some fat. It's time to look great!

Well shoot me a PM if she gets lonely, and put some pics in there as well. I can provide her with some on-cycle therapy for you if necessary. If not, just make sure she goes out alone to the bars at least 1 night a week, and she should be set.

 

[Kata1yst]

im on test 750 week and deca 300 week right now, week 2. I didnt plan on cycling so soon but time requires me to do it now....so that im ready by summer to show off the bod lol..Im actually thinking of bulking then cutting as well. Probably taper off the calories as the weeks go by and do more of a recomp. I plan to add in some winstrol tabs too, so i can take advantage of the deca joint help. Hope to be around 7% bf and add about 10lbs lean muscle by May/June.

Sounds good 'n looks like we're in the same boat. I don't have any winstrol through I have been thinking of getting some. Good luck and hope u do well!

 

[Kata1yst]

Well shoot me a PM if she gets lonely, and put some pics in there as well. I can provide her with some on-cycle therapy for you if necessary. If not, just make sure she goes out alone to the bars at least 1 night a week, and she should be set.

lol...I'm counting on being able to get it up.

 

[R_Alan1]

I take cortisol management supps like 2-3g vit C per day, lots of green tea and anti-oxidants, and in post cycle therapy I love retain 2[/QUOTE]

How significant is the cortisol supression with vitamin C? 2-3 g per day is A LOT. Interested in hearing more, I will def be looking into this. Thanks.

 

[pudzian2]

I take cortisol management supps like 2-3g vit C per day, lots of green tea and anti-oxidants, and in post cycle therapy I love retain 2

How significant is the cortisol supression with vitamin C? 2-3 g per day is A LOT. Interested in hearing more, I will def be looking into this. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

pop 500mg tabs with every other meal pre/post workout and you will get about 2-3g, whether its VERY significant or not it helps and is proven to work. and its natural.

 

[Kata1yst]

I use vitamin C after workouts (1000mg). Not only is it good for cortisol reduction but its great for the immune system post workout. Especially in the winter time when just about anyone has the cold at the gym.