Will Havoc....

[wondering221]

Hi, I am new here, have used 1ad, 1-test, and the old acetaboolan/andro stacks from muscletech. I have never gotten into steroids, but I came across your site, and was really interested in all you guys have to say.

I saw that this product Havoc was really popular. I read it everywhere after searching to the point that the site wouldnt let me see anymore without signing up, so here I am. I normally just take nitrot3 and aminovol, stacked together.

This havoc stuff seems to have little side effects, so I bought a bottle, but havent started using it yet. I was just going to take one to 2 pills a day for a month. Is this okay to do? I have never done this stuff, I take protein every day, and work out 6-7 days a week. I read about post-cycle stuff, do i need to really do that? I bought havoc b/c it is supposedly the safest product out there....is it a steroid? What is this Q thing it mentions?

Um, thanks for reading this if you have, and any help you have. Oh, and I am 27, bench is 295, squat is 5 plates, dead is 455. Feel free to flame me if you must, but I am hoping you will help me with some info.

 

[hardestgainer]

Hey man, I am only not flaming you cause you told me not to, lol. I can't beleive u ran all those PH's without PCT. Get a serm please. Do some more research in the PCT forum, for the health of your boys

 

[WeakPoint]

From what I've heard Havoc is a steroid because it is only talked about in the Steroids part of the forum so I'd assume.
If you ask anyone on here they will definitely say post cycle therapy is a must.
I'd suggest maybe reading up a bit more and finding out what other people dose and what you think will safely work for you and get a SERM (like said above) to be safe as well.

 

[ImJ2x]

Will Havoc Kill Me?

Yes.

 

[Outside Backer]

yes

im afraid havoc will in fact kill you

 

[Australian made]

yes

im afraid havoc will in fact kill you

Instantly!:twisted:

 

[GuitarHero]

My cousin's brother's nephew's girlfriend's aunt's husband tried it once and died 30 minutes after ingesting the first pill! Swear to God man. :run:

But seriously, I ran it a while back and didn't have any troubles other than dry joints, but I'd highly recommend using a SERM.

 

[SgtP]

This thread is great. I'm sure you did all that research also. You would have found 10213424 answers to your silly question.

 

[freezito]

omg, where do these guys come from

 

[Australian made]

he doesnt do roids. just 1-test.

 

[ReaperX]

What's Havoc ?

 

[wondering221]

Wow, um, okay....thanks for the help?? I DID do the research I said. I even had to download and install firefox, as I was able to move on to Netscape after I got that warning that I had viewed too many threads, using Internet Explorer. I then moved on to use Firefox, so I could keep searching. You don't believe me, ask the admins if that would happen. I DID get all those answers, which is why I thought that you guys might actually be HELPFUL?? I wanted to ask my own question, instead of taking out of everyone else's threads. Apparently none of you guys were newbs at any point. I thought the point of this forum was to inform, but you guys all seem to want to be jerks. God forbid someone ask a question...I said feel free to flame, but could you maybe balance that out with some help/something positive to offer??

I chose Havoc b/c when I would put in a search for 'best supplement' a bunch of polls would come up, like in one thread where one guy answered 'havochavochavochavoc' some 87 times, and I read the logs of some of the guys like 'webdango.' Some of my searches brought up something called epistane, and i searched that, never having heard of it.

I didn't know those things WERE prohormones, except 1-test. I didnt think that WAS a steroid...far as I know, steroids are illegal, and I could buy that stuff at GNC....What is a SERM? Is that what that POST thing is that I see in the board alot?

Oh, I come from New England, since you asked where I come from. You think you can get past that, and maybe offer up some helpful information?

So, thanks to those of you who had something to actually offer, instead of just attacking for fun. People like you are what make people want to actually JOIN the site. If you have something productive to add, please do so. I am not sure if I want to start up this Havoc if it may really do some damage....

 

[ReaperX]

Wow, um, okay....thanks for the help?? I DID do the research I said. I even had to download and install firefox, as I was able to move on to Netscape after I got that warning that I had viewed too many threads, using Internet Explorer. I then moved on to use Firefox, so I could keep searching. You don't believe me, ask the admins if that would happen. I DID get all those answers, which is why I thought that you guys might actually be HELPFUL?? I wanted to ask my own question, instead of taking out of everyone else's threads. Apparently none of you guys were newbs at any point. I thought the point of this forum was to inform, but you guys all seem to want to be jerks. God forbid someone ask a question...I said feel free to flame, but could you maybe balance that out with some help/something positive to offer??

I chose Havoc b/c when I would put in a search for 'best supplement' a bunch of polls would come up, like in one thread where one guy answered 'havochavochavochavoc' some 87 times, and I read the logs of some of the guys like 'webdango.' Some of my searches brought up something called epistane, and i searched that, never having heard of it.

I didn't know those things WERE prohormones, except 1-test. I didnt think that WAS a steroid...far as I know, steroids are illegal, and I could buy that stuff at GNC....What is a SERM? Is that what that POST thing is that I see in the board alot?

Oh, I come from New England, since you asked where I come from. You think you can get past that, and maybe offer up some helpful information?

So, thanks to those of you who had something to actually offer, instead of just attacking for fun. People like you are what make people want to actually JOIN the site. If you have something productive to add, please do so. I am not sure if I want to start up this Havoc if it may really do some damage....

Look for something else. Havoc is being discontinued.

 

[wondering221]

Really? Wow, is it just b/c it is being replaced, or people not liking it? From what I saw in some threads (you know, in that research I was doing on the site for my silly question?) some place called NutraP (I think they are a sponsor on this site?) was having a prob getting it on the shelves in January? It was in a misspelled "Havoc Impatients" thread.

Thanks for the info reaper. I am adding to your karma/feedback/reputation. Anyone else who helped (above), I am adding to your reputation as well.

I do already have one bottle though, so that was what I was going to use...

Oh, and the reason I called this thread the name I did, was so that people might look at it, b/c I really AM looking for the information. Lots of people said that they had some pretty good gains, with the smallest effects coming from Havoc, and that m1t was really rough on them, so i stayed away from that. I actually found this site b/c i was looking for new prohormones, and came across this 4-ad stuff, but remembered I used to take 1-ad, so I was wondering what the difference was. That was how I came upon this Havoc. When I say I am doing research, I really am.

 

[matthew76]

Havoc has already killed me... I just haunt these forums!

Seriously though, have you ever run a posct cycle therapy after any of the steroids you listed in your first post?

Havoc is a great steroid for its lack of sides. It's kind of hard to find, but you can buy Epidrol (which is in stock now at NutraPlanet.com), Epi-E, and a few other clones. It's the exact same compound. But before you do another cycle, you really need to read up on it and how to do a proper post cycle therapy. I'll even add that with a compound like EPI, an over the counter post cycle therapy can be utilized safely.

Regardless, welcome to AM, and Good Luck to you!

 

[damnglass]

Look for something else. Havoc is being discontinued.

yeah,due to being awesome,the reps stashed the supply away in their basements for themselves

 

[wondering221]

Matthew, thanks for your welcome....first guy to actually say that....you have more rep. See....you jab me with the haunting line, but then offer up some real info. I respect and appreciate that.

Wow, so this stuff is a steroid, really? Then how do they sell it just on normal sites? I thought they were all illegal? Most sites I go to say 'sorry, we dont have THAT PH you were looking for, but THIS will be just as good...." but you are saying this is a true steroid? What is the 'Q'

 

[king1033]

DONT BUY IT JUST LOOKING AT THE BOTTLE IS KNOWN TO CAUSE INSTANT DEATH!!:blink::blink:

 

[NasD]

wondering, welcome to AM! Havoc will cause death so you should just send me your bottle! :twisted:

 

[St1ff]

Havoc killed me.

 

[matthew76]

Ok, I think the Killed me humor has played its course... lets move on and try to help.

Try these links, read up, then ask any questions that you may have...
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/64820-designer-steroid-prohormone.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

 

[wondering221]

Wow that avatar is nice....that is one HUGE ass!! Is that Vida?

Anyways, I also (in my research) saw that halodrol and superdrol was popular, but Havoc had less side effects.
I have never done a post cycle thing, so I am looking at this issue now....is it necessary if I pulse the Havoc? I do not intend on going over 20mg a day. I read on here that 30 or 40can give you gyno issues (some guy on here had an issue where one nip got better, but then the other got gyno).

If i pulse, and never go over 20mg/day, should I still do a post?

 

[NasD]

wondering, researching is a great source of info and in the end it really comes down to how the individual's body will react to the given steroid. This is the main reason that a SERM should ALWAYS be on hand, IMO. This way even if you don't plan on using it but things take a turn for the worse, you have the SERM to help stave off gyno. make sense?

 

[wondering221]

Hi, yes, it makes perfect sense....Matt, I am reading those links, thanks! I also read up on the Epistane faq. I found out about this stuff called 'cycle therapy' and 'POST cycle therapy' both on NutraPlanet's site. Would this stuff help me?

What is the 'Q ratio' and what is a SERM?

Thanks.

 

[wondering221]

Matthew, that first link I read in my first research...it was what made me pick Havoc in the first place, since it said it was less on the sides than halodrol/superdrol. The second one, I have not seen yet, thanks!

Edit--well, I now know what a SERM is, but my doctor wont prescribe me that, so how do I get that? will the 'cycle therapy' and 'post cycle therapy' be enough? or is 6-oxo enough? I THOUGHT that just taking 10 to 20 mg a day would make it so i dont have to worry about that? Of course, i dunno what i am talking about....see, i thought i would not have to worry, since the dose will be low, and i have taken all those other PH in the past without a post cycle.

 

[matthew76]

Well, I can't tell you where to get a SERM because it's against the rules... However, if you're going to run Havoc (EPI), you can use an over the counter post cycle therapy. My recommendations - Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations and Derm. Sustain by Primordial Performance.

 

[ImJ2x]

Hey 221 -- I'm the guy who posted the first "smarta$$" reply in your thread. I really was just trying to be funny, playing off the funny title you chose for this thread. I honestly didn't mean to start a flamefest. I do apologize. So I feel I owe you a more serious reply (especially since it appears you have done some research). So here's my advice...

1. You need to research post-cycle therapy more. Understand what "shutdown" is, why it occurs, and how PCT combats it. Then the rest of my (our) advice will make more sense.

2. I think Havoc/Epi (same thing) is a wise choice for your first cycle. It is relatively mild (although I've never used it, so I can't say first hand.) I'm currently on my first cycle, pulsing Superdrol -- definitely more "hardcore" than Epi.

3. I think pulsing is a good choice for your 1st cycle. But here's where I take a very different approach than the rest of this board. I don't like the typical EOD (Every Other Day) pulse recommended on this board. I simply don't think the one day off between pulses is enough to prevent shutdown. I prefer the 3on/4off "micro-cycle" type pulse, where you take your Epi (and workout) for 3 consecutive days, followed by 4 consecutive "off" days. This gives your body 4 days in a row to recover, rather than just 1. The trick is finding a workout routine that you can accomplish in 3 consecutive days. Here's a link to a post I made recently regarding this: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/35-older/79923-only-three-consecutive.html#post1168868

4. If you can't get your hands on a traditional SERM (nolva, clomid, torem), then pick up an OTC (Over The Counter) product containing Trans-Resveratrol, which actually works like a SERM. Anabolic Inovations' Post Cycle Support, Primordial Performance's Sustain Alpha, and ErgoPharm's 6oxoExtreme all contain trans-res. 6oxoEx also contains a mild AI (Aromatase Inhibitor), making it especially nice (but quite pricey). You can use the trans-res on your off days, if you have any indication of potential shutdown or gyno. But don't be surprised if you don't use it at all. I'm about to start the 10th week of my Superdrol micro-cycle, and I still haven't used my 6oxoEx. I'm simply not shutting down -- my junk is working fine. (But I have been using trib-based compounds and a questionable anti-E called 17-Alpha at various times.)

Anyway, just let me know if you have any questions. And Good Luck.
(Once again, sorry I started the shenanigans.)

 

[wondering221]

Wow, thanks imj2x! A lot of great info there. See, I have always had a high tolerance in the past to these things, like the 1-ad, 19-nor, 1-t, etc, without using a post-cycle thing, which is why I am in the dark on them. You have more rep.
I do not have a post-cycle yet, but I heard that 6oxo is good, but i will look into the ex, and their 11oxo. I know what shutdown is, it just never happened to me in the past, with the others. I am more worried about my liver, though I don't really drink ever, dont smoke, etc. I also worry about the androgenic issues, like hair loss, gyno, etc. I was confused on the gyno issue, though, b/c one of the raves on this site about havoc is that it HELPS with gyno. so that confused me....which is why i was asking these types of questions. All the searching i did, brought up these questions you now see me asking.

Weird, too, on this site, you cannot search the terms 1-ad, 4-ad, 19-nor, etc....it returns as a bad search. kindof annoying.

 

[wondering221]

Well, I took my first dose yesterday, and I picked up some cycle support, for my liver protection. I really was interested in finding 1-ad for cheap, but it is only in the UK, and is around 130 for just 2 bottles of 60 caps. I like that stuff b/c it doesn't aromatize (see, I did my research!) but you need to take about 6 pills a day for good results, so you would need 4 bottles for a whole cycle. 260 is too much right now, plus the support supps!!

I took 20mg yesterday, a few hours b4 the gym, and the second pill b4 bed, after my final protein shake and multi. I am eating pasta for dinner with chicken breast, as a lot of people here talked about lethargy without enough carbs. i also am eating bananas through the day, and eating apples and mixing blueberries into my shakes, for their antioxidant properties. I am also drinking a bunch of green tea. The milk thistle should also help.

I am noticing, though, a strong calf pump, and a slight pump in my mid/lower back. Makes me nervous, as this is only the 2nd day. I was going to pulse eod, but i am thinking that maybe i should do 20mg/10mg, alternating every day. The reason I am thinking this is that I do not plan to go over 20 mg the whole cycle. What do you guys think?

Hopefully you all are seeing I am not just some dumbass jumping into tossing steroids, and can be taken seriously!

 

[ImJ2x]

Wow, thanks imj2x! A lot of great info there. See, I have always had a high tolerance in the past to these things, like the 1-ad, 19-nor, 1-t, etc, without using a post-cycle thing, which is why I am in the dark on them. You have more rep.
I do not have a post-cycle yet, but I heard that 6oxo is good, but i will look into the ex, and their 11oxo. I know what shutdown is, it just never happened to me in the past, with the others. I am more worried about my liver, though I don't really drink ever, dont smoke, etc. I also worry about the androgenic issues, like hair loss, gyno, etc. I was confused on the gyno issue, though, b/c one of the raves on this site about havoc is that it HELPS with gyno. so that confused me....which is why i was asking these types of questions. All the searching i did, brought up these questions you now see me asking.

Weird, too, on this site, you cannot search the terms 1-ad, 4-ad, 19-nor, etc....it returns as a bad search. kindof annoying.

You're right about the search engine -- you have to try adding asterisks (*) to the terms, if it's less than 4 letters. "4ad*"
And as far as Havoc/Epi's side effects, I've never used it, but here's what I understand...
It is pretty mild on your liver, as far as methyls are concerned. But a little SAMe or NAC won't hurt (people say milk thistle impedes your gains, but I use a little, anyway).
And you're right about the anti-gyno properties of Havoc/Epi. It supposedly crushes your estogen levels to near zero, which can have it's own problematic effects. Without any estrogen, your libido will probably fall off the table (zero estrogen is not necessarily a good thing). I would also worry about estro-rebound, after you go off the product, which could cause "delayed gyno." (This is occasionally a problem with Superdrol.)
But, that's another reason to try the micro-cycle pulse protocol. In 3 days, there's no way epi will completely eradicate all estrogen, and then you get 4 days to re-acquire decent homeostasis (natural testosterone/estrogen balance).
That's the great thing about the 4 consecutive "off" days -- you can see what effects the PH/AAS has on your body, and use an appropriate supp on your off days to combat it. (For instance, if epi does reduce your libido, you can use some Diesel Test Hardcore to fight back.)
The whole theory to pulsing is to just add a little exogenous testosterone while you're working out, to aid in strength/muscle-building. But then stop with the external test so that your nutz will continue to make their own internal (endogenous) testosterone.
Try the 3on/4off micro-cycle thing. I can't convince anyone else to try it, and I wanna see if someone else can have as much success with it as I have. And if you're good at "logging," that would be nice. (I'm not -- I don't have the time.)
Be my guinea pig, lol.

 

[ImJ2x]

Well, I took my first dose yesterday, and I picked up some cycle support, for my liver protection. I really was interested in finding 1-ad for cheap, but it is only in the UK, and is around 130 for just 2 bottles of 60 caps. I like that stuff b/c it doesn't aromatize (see, I did my research!) but you need to take about 6 pills a day for good results, so you would need 4 bottles for a whole cycle. 260 is too much right now, plus the support supps!!

I took 20mg yesterday, a few hours b4 the gym, and the second pill b4 bed, after my final protein shake and multi. I am eating pasta for dinner with chicken breast, as a lot of people here talked about lethargy without enough carbs. i also am eating bananas through the day, and eating apples and mixing blueberries into my shakes, for their antioxidant properties. I am also drinking a bunch of green tea. The milk thistle should also help.

I am noticing, though, a strong calf pump, and a slight pump in my mid/lower back. Makes me nervous, as this is only the 2nd day. I was going to pulse eod, but i am thinking that maybe i should do 20mg/10mg, alternating every day. The reason I am thinking this is that I do not plan to go over 20 mg the whole cycle. What do you guys think?

Hopefully you all are seeing I am not just some dumbass jumping into tossing steroids, and can be taken seriously!

Oh -- you must have posted this while I was replying to your previous post.
So you've chosen the more popular EOD pulse. That's OK. I still wish you luck -- you're gonna need it. j/k

 

[wondering221]

hi, any other opinions? is 10/20mg every other day okay?
i am thinking for 2 weeks, then MAYBE go to 10/30?

thanks!