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    Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    the issue about stacking 'all these things' at once doesn't make sense to me. I mean say we just use hormones (steroids), and follow the test, tern, Pei protocol above. that is 3 compounds working in synergy with each other for 3-4 short weeks. the only thing is they are in higher doses. BUT these doses aren't ridiculously high. I dint think its about having to stack more and more, I think its about careful planning and choosing compounds that are synergistic. the addition of insulin or slain+if-1+(gh booster like pGH) could add a few lbs LBM and also add their benefits to the physique and cycle. all of those things function on a different spectrum than the HPTA that is being influenced by the AA steroids, and its not like we are combining 6 AA steroids.
    I agree.The planning of different compounds(sticking with 2-3
    compounds per cycle) and then switching to others on the next run would keep the gains comming.The body grows,but before total adaptation, there's the time off cycle,and then it's fed a different compound(or compounds), and future growth begins (Within many parameters such as genetics,protein absorption ratios,etc.)
    I kinda see it as having your cake and eating it too.

    We now have DR D's pulse methods, these short blast/minies, and the traditional 10-12 week protocol,pretty cool stuff!

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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Tren Ace is short for Trenbolone Acetate. To quote Bill Roberts "Trenbolone is a steroid having the advantages of undergoing no adverse metabolism, not being affected by aromatase or 5alpha-reductase; of being very potent Class I steroid binding well to the androgen receptor; and having a short half life, probably no more than a day or two..."
    I have to say,I loved Tren.I remember the 1st home brews I made with Component TH belts and animals kits years back.
    So many people talk about the harsh sides from fina,but I never had them.The only thing I ever felt was unreal strength,a great sense of well being,and a constant woody.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FX01 View Post
    I agree.The planning of different compounds(sticking with 2-3
    compounds per cycle) and then switching to others on the next run would keep the gains comming.The body grows,but before total adaptation, there's the time off cycle,and then it's fed a different compound(or compounds), and future growth begins (Within many parameters such as genetics,protein absorption ratios,etc.)
    I kinda see it as having your cake and eating it too.

    We now have DR D's pulse methods, these short blast/minies, and the traditional 10-12 week protocol,pretty cool stuff!
    I think its imperative to continue to question every norm in the sense that as our understanding of certain sciences improve, we can manipulate strategies altogether.
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    Thanks for the answers guys.

    If you were able to talk to a Dr. to ask for what you wanted in a blast cycle, what products would you ask for and how much total for a cycle.

    I am going to see in the future if my Dr. will let me do my own injections as well.

    Much Love,

    Neoborn
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    Thanks for the answers guys.

    If you were able to talk to a Dr. to ask for what you wanted in a blast cycle, what products would you ask for and how much total for a cycle.

    I am going to see in the future if my Dr. will let me do my own injections as well.

    Much Love,

    Neoborn
    does your doctor consider you an "HRT" patient for legit or 'favor' reasons if at all? (maybe dont say on the boards haha)...but anyway well when I do mine it will be like this:

    test prop:
    1000mg/week
    Tren Ace(first 75% of cycle): 100-125mg ED (probably 100mg)
    Epistane: first 75% of cycle:10mg ED, last 25% of cycle: 50-60mg ED
    humalog: 10IU PWO
    IGF-1: 10mcg PWO or 20mcg EOD
    pGH: max dose (if multiple shots, 1 shot PWO)

    this cycle may be a little dry. but if we keep a synthetic AI out, then the epi should help control estro to the point where any other hopefully will be used by joints.

    if I bloat/get gyn symptoms I will have aromasin and SERMS on hand but probably try trans-reserveratrol and dermacrine sustain as a first resort

    anyone think that I am at serious hypoglycemia risk? any suggestions if so>?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    does your doctor consider you an "HRT" patient for legit or 'favor' reasons if at all? (maybe dont say on the boards haha)...but anyway well when I do mine it will be like this:

    test prop:
    1000mg/week
    Tren Ace(first 75% of cycle): 100-125mg ED (probably 100mg)
    Epistane: first 75% of cycle:10mg ED, last 25% of cycle: 50-60mg ED
    humalog: 10IU PWO
    IGF-1: 10mcg PWO or 20mcg EOD
    pGH: max dose (if multiple shots, 1 shot PWO)

    this cycle may be a little dry. but if we keep a synthetic AI out, then the epi should help control estro to the point where any other hopefully will be used by joints.

    if I bloat/get gyn symptoms I will have aromasin and SERMS on hand but probably try trans-reserveratrol and dermacrine sustain as a first resort

    anyone think that I am at serious hypoglycemia risk? any suggestions if so>?
    I don't know enough about insulin to answer your hypoglycemia question, but if you do decide to run a cycle similar to this one please log it. I would love to see your results. Everything else looks good to me and the science behind it is certainly solid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewh10987 View Post
    I don't know enough about insulin to answer your hypoglycemia question, but if you do decide to run a cycle similar to this one please log it. I would love to see your results. Everything else looks good to me and the science behind it is certainly solid.
    I would probably be fine shooting just 10IU slin with 10IU IGF-1, but I dont know if the pGH will add or interact to cause exaggerated hypoglycemia. I mean....I have used slin before very cautiously and I know how i react so I could sense if something was out of the ordinary. I definitely will log it. I project doing a cycle such as this and having it last 4 weeks. I will then gauge recovery time, and see how the time after recovery is (as far as quality of training, mood, how my body feels etc.) I hope I can stretch it so it works out to be about 4 weeks ON, 4 weeks recovery (hopefully the actual 'recovery' [a better way of putting it would be: a return to the somewhat interrupted state of homeostasis.] only takes about 1-2 weeks MAX) and then the latter two weeks would just be there as a cushion. I would then hope to get about 4-6 weeks (or more) of training w.o gear, and then going back ON should be a breeze.

    I do not think that changing the compounds just because we use them in a prior cycle is necessary. I mean, if they werent strong enough, or the cycle didnt go as planned, or you didnt react well then I could see changing them (or just wanting to experiment with something else) But if it works the first time, then I see no NEED to change them for the second run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    I would probably be fine shooting just 10IU slin with 10IU IGF-1, but I dont know if the pGH will add or interact to cause exaggerated hypoglycemia.
    I check my blood sugar at intervals when I use slin or slin/IGF-1 and I can verify that the IGF-1 LR3 does have an effect at increasing insulin sensitivity and that when coupled with insulin it pushes blood sugar down a little more. So take that into consideration when you use the two together.

    However Growth Hormone (GH) has the opposite effect. It reduces the blood sugar drop that comes with insulin use (if they are taken at the same time). In fact you'll find you need fewer carbs if GH & slin are taken together than w/ slin alone.

    I don't know what pGH is...can you elaborate on it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    I check my blood sugar at intervals when I use slin or slin/IGF-1 and I can verify that the IGF-1 LR3 does have an effect at increasing insulin sensitivity and that when coupled with insulin it pushes blood sugar down a little more. So take that into consideration when you use the two together.

    However Growth Hormone (GH) has the opposite effect. It reduces the blood sugar drop that comes with insulin use (if they are taken at the same time). In fact you'll find you need fewer carbs if GH & slin are taken together than w/ slin alone.

    I don't know what pGH is...can you elaborate on it?
    here is a write up on it...p-GH: experiences or thoughts?

    how much slin/igf-1 did you use together? (w.o GH)
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    Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    does your doctor consider you an "HRT" patient for legit or 'favor' reasons if at all? (maybe dont say on the boards haha)...but anyway well when I do mine it will be like this:

    test prop:
    1000mg/week
    Tren Ace(first 75% of cycle): 100-125mg ED (probably 100mg)
    Epistane: first 75% of cycle:10mg ED, last 25% of cycle: 50-60mg ED
    humalog: 10IU PWO
    IGF-1: 10mcg PWO or 20mcg EOD
    pGH: max dose (if multiple shots, 1 shot PWO)

    this cycle may be a little dry. but if we keep a synthetic AI out, then the epi should help control estro to the point where any other hopefully will be used by joints.
    I was offered TRT by my Dr. for some low test levels. I actually told him I would rather hold off for now. I am pretty sure he would be open to my request if I can discuss the methodology with him and why I want to do it a certain way. He trusts me and I trust him. We have a very good working relationship.

    Of course I would talk in depth with an Endo.

    Would an Endo / Dr. prescribe the shopping list you just gave?
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    Hey pudzian, have you ever used pGH before? If so, how did you like it? Is it legal? I read the thread you linked and it seems very interesting. Some of the guys said it use to be legally available through a former board sponsor, but I'm not sure if that's still the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    I was offered TRT by my Dr. for some low test levels. I actually told him I would rather hold off for now. I am pretty sure he would be open to my request if I can discuss the methodology with him and why I want to do it a certain way. He trusts me and I trust him. We have a very good working relationship.

    Of course I would talk in depth with an Endo.

    Would an Endo / Dr. prescribe the shopping list you just gave?
    i seriously doubt it
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    I was offered TRT by my Dr. for some low test levels. I actually told him I would rather hold off for now. I am pretty sure he would be open to my request if I can discuss the methodology with him and why I want to do it a certain way. He trusts me and I trust him. We have a very good working relationship.

    Of course I would talk in depth with an Endo.

    Would an Endo / Dr. prescribe the shopping list you just gave?
    I don't think an Endo would give that stuff to you either...atleast not in the US & not legally anyways. You're best bet is to stock up if he even allows you to take the stuff home. Then again, you're endo would want to monitor your test levels after some time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    here is a write up on it...p-GH: experiences or thoughts?

    how much slin/igf-1 did you use together? (w.o GH)
    Oh yeah I remember a former board sponsor carried it in a couple of forms...one was a sterile injectable. From all the feedback it sounded good especially for prolonged use and especially if you were older. In fact I remember I was going to order some and give it go for 3 or so months but then that board sponsor had his problems.

    Slin/igf-1 use was 8/10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewh10987 View Post
    ...Is it legal?...Some of the guys said it use to be legally available through a former board sponsor, but I'm not sure if that's still the case.
    That former board sponsor had legal problems (criminal/tax) unrelated to this compound or this board.

    The compound is legal. It isn't even grey area...it is straight up legal. However the method of delivery can not be advertised/sold as an injectable for humans.

    So transdermal formulas are okay and sterile injectable is okay to buy for oral consumption (oral consumption is ineffective so it would be up to the user to make the decision on injecting it).
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfearl1 View Post
    i seriously doubt it
    So then what would be a good burst cycle that they would most likely accept from me as a suggestion or something I would like to try?
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    So then what would be a good burst cycle that they would most likely accept from me as a suggestion or something I would like to try?
    there is no way they would give you anything but test unless your a muscle wasting patient. Then you may get some nandrolone and HGH. BUT even if he scribes you test....it would be NO WHERE NEAR enough to take 1g+ per week. Any doc who does that is risking his job and life as a free man.
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    What exactly is a "burst" cycle? Is it pretty much 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off?
    mw2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImJ2x View Post
    What exactly is a "burst" cycle? Is it pretty much 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off?
    the word "burst" is just a term to exemplify that the gear is meant to get in, make some gains, and get out. so the average cycle length would be between 3-4 weeks. At this point suppression should be minimal (if at all- depends on individual). and upon cessation of steroid use, the body will hopefully not have a hard time returning to the barely disturbed "pre cycle homeostasis"

    read a few pages back it explains all the theories.
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    Just an interesting (at least to me) thought.

    Patrick Arnold mentioned a method for reducing the androgenicity of testosterone for use by women. The method was simply the use of a 5alpha-reductase inhibitor.

    Now this would change the androgen/anabolic ratio of testosterone greatly in favor of anabolism. So if one wanted to adhere to Rea's protocol of running androgens in the first part of a short cycle and anabolics in the second part, one could just use testosterone throughout the entire cycle BUT add in a 5alpha-reductase inhibitor during the second part of the cycle to make that part more anabolic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Just an interesting (at least to me) thought.

    Patrick Arnold mentioned a method for reducing the androgenicity of testosterone for use by women. The method was simply the use of a 5alpha-reductase inhibitor.

    Now this would change the androgen/anabolic ratio of testosterone greatly in favor of anabolism. So if one wanted to adhere to Rea's protocol of running androgens in the first part of a short cycle and anabolics in the second part, one could just use testosterone throughout the entire cycle BUT add in a 5alpha-reductase inhibitor during the second part of the cycle to make that part more anabolic.
    very interesting. that makes perfect sense. however NPP or tren will be much more anabolic regardless. Either way, using test the whole time would be cheaper and easier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    Just an interesting (at least to me) thought.

    Patrick Arnold mentioned a method for reducing the androgenicity of testosterone for use by women. The method was simply the use of a 5alpha-reductase inhibitor.

    Now this would change the androgen/anabolic ratio of testosterone greatly in favor of anabolism. So if one wanted to adhere to Rea's protocol of running androgens in the first part of a short cycle and anabolics in the second part, one could just use testosterone throughout the entire cycle BUT add in a 5alpha-reductase inhibitor during the second part of the cycle to make that part more anabolic.
    Interesting indeed.
    What are your thoughts of running Letro throughout,
    just to be on the safe side?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FX01 View Post
    Interesting indeed.
    What are your thoughts of running Letro throughout,
    just to be on the safe side?
    I would think letro could lead to too much estrogen reduction, whereas aromasin or arimidex would be a better choices.
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    Simple: We used an estrogen antagonist to block receptor-sites but allowed plasma estrogen levels to remain high.
    Using Clomid as an example, it has been my experience that a novice anabolic steroids user required (if any) only 50 mg/d (50 mg per day). And an intermediate anabolic steroids user required 20-30 mg/d. An advanced anabolic steroids user commonly required 30-50 mg/d. A very advanced anabolic steroids user sometimes required 40-60 mg/d, and in most cases, some additional help from an aromatase inhibitor. The key was to watch for signs of gyno and female pattern fat deposits, while keeping a close eye on blood pressure. This was always of the utmost concern during the building of the perfect beast. High blood pressure can introduce a variety of long term and life threatening negative side effects.

    NOTE: Nolvadex decreases GH/IGF-1 synthesis and is therefore a poor choice as an estrogen antagonist.

    Things we have learned from experience...Estrogen levels were kept near normal or below before we exited the anabolic steroids protocols. So we added an estrogen aromatase inhibitor at about day #15 of a Max Androgen Phase to clear the system of excess estrogen before we exited. I have not noted many novice anabolic steroids/Max Androgen Phase users whom needed this precaution. But this was in relevance to dosages administered.

    Some intermediate anabolic steroids users opted for Arimidex 0.5-1.0 mg/d, or Proviron 50- 100 mg/d. Most advanced anabolic steroids users successfully utilized Arimidex 1.0-2.0 mg/d or Aromasin 50mg/d. This was, of course, unnecessary when a Cortisol/Estrogen Suppression Phase was layered in at the half-way point or beginning day #15 of a Max Androgen Phase.


    1) what would be a comparable dose of a second generation SERM like toremifene or Raloxifene compared to the 20-60mg/d Clomid suggestion by Rea.


    2)I have set up the following protocol of 2 "short" cycles to be rotated between. Can anyone help suggest estrogen control protocols to layer over these two different regimes?

    i was thinking something along the lines of:
    -toremifene (10-20mg ED from the start of each cycle to prevent gyno)

    -During the "mini cycle 1" I planned on using aromasin (or a natty AI if strong enough...suggestions?) starting week 2/3
    at 12.5-25mg ED).

    -I feel an AI wont be necessary during "Mini Cycle 2"

    Mini Cycle 1:
    • Days 1-15: 100-150mg ED Testosterone Propionate (frontload 200-250mg day 1)
    • Days 15-30: 45mg ED Testosterone Propionate
    • Days 1-30: 100mg ED Nandrolone Phenylpropionate
    ** HCG will be on hand and used during the latter half of cycle to lessen the degree of potential suppression/shut-down.


    Mini Cycle 2:
    • Days 1-15: 100mg ED Trenbolone Acetate (frontload with 200mg)
    • Days 1-21: 45mg ED Testosterone Propionate
    • Days 10-30: 100mg ED Nandrolone Phenylpropionate
    **HCG will be on hand and used during the latter half of cycle to lessen the degree of potential suppression/shut-down.


    A 4 week post cycle therapy will follow each of these cycles and include:

    POST CYCLE:

    SERM: to be used in conjunction with Sustain Alpha, Primordial Performance writes, "25mg/day clomid or 10mg/day nolva or 10mg/tormefene or 50mg/day raloxifene are the ideal doses for maximal testosterone stimulation based on my research."

    ( I will most likely run a daily taper of 120/120/90/90/60/60/30/ (>that would be 7 days{first week of PCT), and then back down to the lower dose of SERM to be used in conjunction with Sustain Alpha...)

    Test BoostersAI: Sustain Alpha, (paravol/Drive OR Phyto-Testosterone)

    Cortisol: Retain 2, Vit c, 3g,
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    Quote Originally Posted by

    1) what would be a comparable dose of a second generation SERM like toremifene or Raloxifene compared to the 20-60mg/d Clomid suggestion by Rea.


    2)I have set up the following protocol of 2 "short" cycles to be rotated between. Can anyone help suggest estrogen control protocols to layer over these two different regimes?

    [B
    i was thinking something along the lines of:[/B]
    -toremifene (10-20mg ED from the start of each cycle to prevent gyno)

    -During the "mini cycle 1" I planned on using aromasin (or a natty AI if strong enough...suggestions?) starting week 2/3
    at 12.5-25mg ED).

    -I feel an AI wont be necessary during "Mini Cycle 2"

    Mini Cycle 1:
    Days 1-15: 100-150mg ED Testosterone Propionate (frontload 200-250mg day 1)
    Days 15-30: 45mg ED Testosterone Propionate
    Days 1-30: 100mg ED Nandrolone Phenylpropionate
    ** HCG will be on hand and used during the latter half of cycle to lessen the degree of potential suppression/shut-down.


    Mini Cycle 2:
    Days 1-15: 100mg ED Trenbolone Acetate (frontload with 200mg)
    Days 1-21: 45mg ED Testosterone Propionate
    Days 10-30: 100mg ED Nandrolone Phenylpropionate
    **HCG will be on hand and used during the latter half of cycle to lessen the degree of potential suppression/shut-down.


    A 4 week post cycle therapy will follow each of these cycles and include:

    POST CYCLE:

    SERM: to be used in conjunction with Sustain Alpha, Primordial Performance writes, "25mg/day clomid or 10mg/day nolva or 10mg/tormefene or 50mg/day raloxifene are the ideal doses for maximal testosterone stimulation based on my research."

    ( I will most likely run a daily taper of 120/120/90/90/60/60/30/ (>that would be 7 days{first week of post cycle therapy), and then back down to the lower dose of SERM to be used in conjunction with Sustain Alpha...)

    Test BoostersAI: Sustain Alpha, (paravol/Drive OR Phyto-Testosterone)

    Cortisol: Retain 2, Vit c, 3g,
    pudz,
    How about this:

    Mini Cycle 1:
    Frontload (The same)
    Days 1-15 Prop (75 ED)
    Days 15-30 (45 ED-same as you posted)
    Days 1-30 NPP(again as above)
    Sometimes, Test is not always the best in higher doses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FX01 View Post
    pudz,
    How about this:

    Mini Cycle 1:
    Frontload (The same)
    Days 1-15 Prop (75 ED)
    Days 15-30 (45 ED-same as you posted)
    Days 1-30 NPP(again as above)
    Sometimes, Test is not always the best in higher doses.
    yea...thats a possibility. However I feel that about 750mg prop would treat me well. so roughly 110mg per week. (only reason I used more was becuase propionate is roughly 79% test: ester weight. so at 150mg per day x 7 days...1050. (1050 x .79= 830mg)

    I have only had experience with enanthate. and ran that up to 750mg but didn't overcompensate for ester weight.

    I will probably stick between 75-100mg and on later cycles increase the dose when/if necessary.

    thanks bro.

    I would really like some feedback on my estro control protocols.
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    Out of the tests which has the best test to ester ratio i.e. the most test per bottle / ampule?
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoborn View Post
    Out of the tests which has the best test to ester ratio i.e. the most test per bottle / ampule?
    suspension=100% test
    prop=79% test
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    pudz when are you looking to run this? i might let you be the guinea pig for this and if successful i'll follow i'm looking to go on, if everything goes accordingly, right around june 1st
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfearl1 View Post
    pudz when are you looking to run this? i might let you be the guinea pig for this and if successful i'll follow i'm looking to go on, if everything goes accordingly, right around june 1st
    haha I am looking to go back on around may 10th. so approx 1 month ahead of you. If this works, Which Im 90% confident (on paper/theory wise) that it will....It will be the way I cycle for a while.
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