Prep time!

[TheeBC]

So, over the few weeks ive been working dilgently to obtaining information on my desired cycle. Im hoping to launch this around April/May

Test Enth Week 1-12 @ 750MG
Week 13-14 @ 500MG
Week 15 @ 250MG


Im hesitant on adding EQ or not now. Its not on facts of cost, but will EQ be the way I want to go if I throw in another compound?***hint hint*** Help

Here is my support sups for ON, OFF, and POST.

-Multivitamin - Optimum Nutrition - Opti-Men
-Antioxidant - Syntrax - Redox
-Vitamin C @ 3G ED
-Mega Disgestive Enzymes
-Fish Oils @ 3G
-Flaxseed Oils @ 3G ED
-Niacin Time Release @ 500MG ED
-Folic Acid @ 800MCG ED
-Garlic @ 4,000MG ED
-Sesamin @ 2G ED
-Cissus
-Cycle Support
-Post Cyce Support
-Uni.Liver 500
-BCAA Excell
-POWERFUL
-Paravol (im taking this stuff for fun. hahah damn I like it)

As far as anti-estrogens....Nolva? Clomid? Armidex? dosings?

 

[TheeBC]

Clarification: HCG / Nolva / Clomid

Could I use this on my last 2-3 weeks ON cycle to prepare my body for nolva? or could I just use nolva?

Basically, Im trying to see how I can keep estro @ a minimum.

weeks 13-15 HCG then week 16-19 Nolva?
or
weeks 13-19 Nolva?
or
weeks 13-15 HCG then week 16-19 Clomid?

Any advice on pulsing aromasin/Armidex during cycle?

 

[Xodus]

Why are you tapering the test?

 

[pudzian2]

i feel like tapering will help recovery. I am doing it now and will see. the thing is...I would much rather just use shorter esters from now on. But ester clearance will be more predictable if you taper down. (also will take less time). IMO, its just easier to gauge when your SERM doses will actually be aiding recovery and not just functioning behind the still synthetically elevated test levels.

 

[pudzian2]

Clarification: HCG / Nolva / Clomid

Could I use this on my last 2-3 weeks ON cycle to prepare my body for nolva? or could I just use nolva?

Basically, Im trying to see how I can keep estro @ a minimum.

weeks 13-15 HCG then week 16-19 Nolva?
or
weeks 13-19 Nolva?
or
weeks 13-15 HCG then week 16-19 Clomid?

Any advice on pulsing aromasin/Armidex during cycle?

i like aromasin at about 10mg ED or 12.5 EOD. SEe what works for you. Of course less is best, but see where your comfort zone is. you may not even need much with 750mgs. if you stay at that dose with no EQ or anything that maybe 10mg EOD will work, and be rather easy on the system

 

[TheeBC]

Xodus - Under the impression I had, you are not suppose to use your AI until your test levels have decreased a bit, not sure if it was because the amount of possible estrogen conversion?

Pudz = AWESOME!!!!!

As far as adding an oral, where is it best benefited in a cycle?

I would like some suggestions on additional compounds that I can inject with Test. Enth? Even orals, but aren’t they extreme in toxicity (my previous orals, PP, superdrol)?

I just submerged myself into a good research session Christmas morning on Armidex, Nolva, Aromasin. Letro is completely out for me as it eliminates too much estrogen and can cause dryness as well as bone and muscle pains. Some estrogen on cycle is beneficial as I have read in articles.

Armidex seems good for ON cycle.
Dosing recommendation?
My source for Armidex wants $60 for 1mg/ml 60ml.
This seems expensive?

What are your views on Aromasin w/ Nolvadex for post cycle therapy?
Dosing?

Can I use Aromasin ON and PCT? continuous use.

 

[Xodus]

I understand 'why' the taper, it just seems too short. On other boards there are guys doing ~6 weeks of taper with little to no post cycle therapy. (Prisoner22 method) but they taper down to ~100mg/week range and sort of 'cruise' as that is just above natural production, then start post cycle therapy as the body should have start producing its own again in that time.

With your taper, you are only able to start post cycle therapy 3-4 days ahead of a straight 750mg/week cycle.




Your Taper:

Non-Taper:

 

[pudzian2]

xodus makes a very good point. The reason I find a taper beneficial is because of my specific cycle. I bumped to 1g T and 750 EQ for 4 weeks and then I am tapering down JUST to get the end week to the equiv of about 500mg test E per week (the EQ will be dropped totally 3.5 weeks out from PCT). Xodus is saying that your taper is short and may not actually be necessary becuase of the given parameters of your cycle and doses. For mine, I am using bookends, so even though the esterfied test is on the decline, I do not plan to loose much muslce since I will be filling in those few weeks with orals.

if you choose to taper, you may want to consider a book end in addition to your kickoff oral....which have you decided yet?

 

[TheeBC]

Xodus - Awesome on the charts! Link?
Pudz - I'll mail you a present for your help! haha.

-Kickoff-
week 1-4 Phera-Plex

week 1-12 750mg enth; 600mg Eq(still in debate)
week 13 250mg enth
week 14 100mg enth

-Bookend-
week 14-16 350MG furuzadrol ED

post cycle therapy
17-21


I chose PP for wetness for my joints + I can bulk up to 25lbs on it standalone.
Furuzadrol for its leaning abilities. If I have the furazadrol around, might as well use it.

Does this seem to extreme?

 

[pudzian2]

Xodus - Awesome on the charts! Link?
Pudz - I'll mail you a present for your help! haha.

-Kickoff-
week 1-4 Phera-Plex

week 1-12 750mg enth; 600mg Eq(still in debate)
week 13 250mg enth
week 14 100mg enth

-Bookend-
week 14-16 350MG furuzadrol ED

post cycle therapy
17-21


I chose PP for wetness for my joints + I can bulk up to 25lbs on it standalone.
Furuzadrol for its leaning abilities. If I have the furazadrol around, might as well use it.

Does this seem to extreme?

looks solid man. Check the PM i sent you.

-- a present eh?:dance:

 

[Xodus]

PCT Calculator is available here:

www.bulkmuscle.com/pct

 

[TheeBC]

Thanks Xodus - u da man!

curious about the exogenous test. left in the body. Does that mean after your last injection you should wait about 3 weeks or so to begin PCT?

 

[Xodus]

Thanks Xodus - u da man!

curious about the exogenous test. left in the body. Does that mean after your last injection you should wait about 3 weeks or so to begin post cycle therapy?

The time to wait depends on the compound. If you throw EQ in there, you need to stop it ~2 weeks BEFORE you stop the test E. Test takes about 2 weeks to clear as well, so that is where the short esters come in (Prop) or an oral, to keep the anabolism going while those clear your system. Both prop and orals clear in ~1-2days so you then start post cycle therapy after your last shot or pill.


Here is the PCT graph for an upcoming cycle of Prop, Cyp & EQ.


You can see how long the EQ takes to clear. Superdrol will be run the last three weeks while everything clears.

 

[TheeBC]

Xodus - thanks again. VERY helpful. Superdrol....no fun...I picked up a girlfriend during my last week on it, talk about shutdown! thats one pro-hormone i do not like. Everything else has been great. What would you feel on 350mg for 3 weeks of Furazadrol to lean up?

 

[neverstop]

my last cycle i did the same thing but i used HCG 250iu twice a week for two weeks after my last shot of test cyp until the majority of the test cyp had cleared my system and i think that did sort of the same thing as a tapering down but the test was naturually produced from the HCG, i then did a simple PCT with tor and IGF and it was better then i ever imagined PCT could be, i fealt normal the whole time, i never had problems pounding my girlfriend and my skin never exploded like it usually does in PCT, plus i didn't lose any weight.

 

[Xodus]

Xodus - thanks again. VERY helpful. Superdrol....no fun...I picked up a girlfriend during my last week on it, talk about shutdown! thats one pro-hormone i do not like.

I couldn't findthe EQ on there or would I use the Deca because they are similar like properties?

I actually felt great on it, aside from a little lethargy. Strength went through the roof. Still contemplating prop at the end instead, but there is already a LOT of pinning in that cycle, not sure how much more I would want. sort of playing it by feel...

Boldenone == EQ

Haven't tried Furazadrol, seems too costly for a real run of it. Plus IIRC I read someone's log(Poopy's?) where it may have caused gyno, don't know though.


EDIT: It was Propadrol that caused gyno in Poopy, not Furaz.

 

[Xodus]

my last cycle i did the same thing but i used HCG 250iu twice a week for two weeks after my last shot of test cyp until the majority of the test cyp had cleared my system and i think that did sort of the same thing as a tapering down but the test was naturually produced from the HCG, i then did a simple post cycle therapy with tor and IGF and it was better then i ever imagined PCT could be, i fealt normal the whole time, i never had problems pounding my girlfriend and my skin never exploded like it usually does in PCT, plus i didn't lose any weight.

I'm looking forward to trying hcg.

 

[neverstop]

I'm looking forward to trying hcg.

changes everything man, i will never do another cycle without it, not only do you come back to normal 1000x faster, your whole body just feels more normal the whole time, hard to describe but i think that is the best way to put it, plus i think naturual test is more effective because typically when i start the hcg i get a little "bump" in progress and everything due to the extra test

 

[neverstop]

hey xodus,

cheers on teh post cycle therapy calculator, ive never seen that before,

are you sure that is right? if you put in 250mg/week of test cyp it shows that you get sustained levels of around 700mg in your body? seems a little counter intuitive is all since a normal cycle of anywhere around 750mg+ ends up with huge huge amounts of test in the body.

 

[Xodus]

hey xodus,

cheers on teh post cycle therapy calculator, ive never seen that before,

are you sure that is right? if you put in 250mg/week of test cyp it shows that you get sustained levels of around 700mg in your body? seems a little counter intuitive is all since a normal cycle of anywhere around 750mg+ ends up with huge huge amounts of test in the body.

I screwed it up the first few times I was playing with it.

Make sure you enter in the amount for each inject, not the total.

So for 250mg/week, I put in 125mg, pinning Sunday & Thurs and it came out at ~350-400mg sustained.

 

[neverstop]

ok..yah, thanks, that makes alot more sense

 

[TheeBC]

This HCG has been interesting to me. Is it true, it can be purchased over-the-counter at costco or pharmacys?

 

[Xodus]

This HCG has been interesting to me. Is it true, it can be purchased over-the-counter at costco or pharmacys?

Yeah, with a script.

 

[TheeBC]

Ohh, well I dont have one of those. hrm. alright, I gotta get back to work. What is the recommended dosage for HCG twice a week.

 

[Xodus]

Ohh, well I dont have one of those. hrm. alright, I gotta get back to work. What is the recommended dosage for HCG twice a week.

Lots of different protocols on that.

I would suggest searching for and reading 'Swale's hcg protocol'. That is the one that seems the sanest to me.

Low doses, 250iu/2x week, run it for no more than 4 weeks, instead of the 5000iu shots I saw in some peoples recommendations.

 

[neverstop]

250-500iu a week is about where i run it, i tend to run it up for two weeks before the end of a cycle too

 

[pudzian2]

i am using HCG as well. I must say I feel wayy normal while on this. The HCG seems to really help there. So do you discourage against the use of HCG up until the day of PCT? I would think it would only help as the ester's are clearing. Also. i m stopping my EQ 1 week before the test which will be stopped 2 weeks before PCT. I think I may make that 3 weeks for extra certainty and just run the oral a week longer.

 

[TheeBC]

xodus - thnx dude will do! you've ben tremendous help haha! "tremendous" but def. helpful bro.

pudz - PM'd bout HCG and...what oral you running?

 

[neverstop]

i use HCG right up till i start PCT

 

[pudzian2]

BC, PM's cleared and I answered you back. SOrry for the delay. Oral= superdrol- its strong enough to hold my gains, maybe add another few lbs of muscle and work its wonderful leaning effects on me

 

[TheeBC]

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pvWN5p_Nm4aAEJzUaZzKDCg&hl=en

 

[TheeBC]

Check that out guys?

 

[Xodus]

I don't think you want to do HCG in post cycle therapy. It is/can be suppressive. It should be done midway through your cycle and again during the last week of your cycle only.

I'm assuming the 3g of Vit. C is for Cortisol control? Any plans for a natural test booster during PCT?

 

[TheeBC]

Yes, cortisol control + its other benefits within the body. Isn't PowerFULL the Natural Testosterone Booster?

Then, I imagine, I can inject week 16-18 correct? then begin PCT?

When would I inject mid-cycle? For a week? If its supressive, wouldn't that pose as a problem to the test/Eq injections?

 

[Xodus]

Yes, cortisol control + its other benefits within the body. Isn't PowerFULL the Natural Testosterone Booster?

Then, I imagine, I can inject week 16-18 correct? then begin post cycle therapy?

When would I inject mid-cycle? For a week? If its supressive, wouldn't that pose as a problem to the test/Eq injections?

Powerfull is more of a GH booster than T booster IMO.

I would do HCG somewhere during weeks 4-6, 8-10, then again during the last week before PCT.

You will already be suppressed from the other compounds, you do not want to do it during PCT as you are trying to come out of suppression.

 

[TheeBC]

Check it out now, Im going to go for it 6-8 2x 250iu then the last week before PCT at 3 x 250iu.

ALSO...my Eq hasn't cleared yet but its at around the 100mg level w/ test-e. Thats 200MG of testosterone? Does that mean it hasn't cleared yet? wouldn't I wait longer, so its around the 100mg in total? On my spreedsheet the numbers after the "0" is milligrams of each compound that is left in my body.

 

[TheeBC]

Will the HCG be okay to inject w/ the superdrol on the last week?
Will the POWERFULL still serve a good purpose? I'll look into a natty test booster.

Im getting baffled by all of this...I usually take 25lbs with me on PP then the anabolic steroids cycle is 30-50lbs. Then another `10-15 from superdrol as usual. sounds crazy.

 

[Xodus]

Will the HCG be okay to inject w/ the superdrol on the last week?

Yes

Will the POWERFULL still serve a good purpose? I'll look into a natty test booster.

Yes, Powerfull is great for sleep too. I had great results with Diesel Test Hardcore and will be running it again shortly.

Im getting baffled by all of this...I usually take 25lbs with me on PP then the anabolic steroids cycle is 30-50lbs. Then another `10-15 from superdrol as usual. sounds crazy.

I wouldn't expect all those gains combined from this cycle. What's your height/weight currently? How much do you normally keep after PCT?

 

[TheeBC]

on PP I always keep a good 16+lbs then SD was 10+... 200 6'1

 

[neverstop]

sorry buddy, your first is always your best! expect to never make gains like you did on your first cycle, putting on 15-20 lbs though on a 12 week cycle is not unheard of for someone who has only done 5 or less cycles

 

[TheeBC]

I guess "buddy" annnyways... um xodus thanks for the help its coming together, as well as you pudz definitely bro.

 

[pudzian2]

no problem man
FYI i cut my injects out after the first shot of week 15. so so thats 2.5 weeks for safety sake before i start PCT. (so esters are clear). not everything is cut and dry as it is with charts and graphs. you will find this once you start. sometimes you have to go by how you feel. a solid plan is the best place to start tho bro keep it up

 

[TheeBC]

Yeah, im also going to stop their too. Im gonaa fix up the outline on that spreadsheet should be fixed within the hour.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...UaZzKDCg&hl=en