PUdz's Gotta get the job DonE cycle!

[pudzian2]

okay. Currently on this cycle: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/76749-pudzs-nuttin-but.html

half way through week 10 out of 15
I will be done with PCT by mid january. I will be doing rigorous blood work to ensure my system is healthy and stabilized. Then I will then not waste time and I will get back on after about 2-3 months of detox and rest. this cycle is a recomp / cutter. Basically it is designed to allow me to maintain and possibly add some LBM while cutting.

here is what is planned so far:

Test Prop -[wks 1-12] 100ish mg ED

Tren Ace -[wks 1-9 / 10] - 75-100mg ED

Furazabol/furazadrol/furaguno - havent decided what weeks or doses (will run when I cut out the tren wk 9 / 10) and maybe during the first 4 weeks or so.

IGF-1 - 40mcg EOD - E3D

Albuterol - 16-18mg ED (4 on 2 off[with benedryl])

ECA- need dosage help but will run during "2 weeks off" of Albuterol

all the regular supplements.....

 

[Travis]

This pry isnt a big deal but why not finish with the tren. Meaning use it weeks 2/3-12.

 

[beebab]

yeaa buddaayyyyy! whooooooooooo

 

[UnrealMachine]

Test P and tren will be wonderful for a slow cutter.

Did you consider Clen instead of albuterol? My reading said most users experienced greater fatloss from Clen, and i've been using it 2 on / 2 off and its been very effective once i dose it 100 mcg and above.

edit damn just noticed the reps reset

 

[pudzian2]

Test P and tren will be wonderful for a slow cutter.

Did you consider Clen instead of albuterol? My reading said most users experienced greater fatloss from Clen, and i've been using it 2 on / 2 off and its been very effective once i dose it 100 mcg and above.

edit damn just noticed the reps reset

yea i know- about the reps.....oh well.

anyway, the reason I am swayed towards albuterol is becuase of it's positive effect on lipids, and also it is said not to be damaging to cardiac tissue like clen can be....I have used albuterol with minimal success (only ran 12mg for a few days). I noticed the cholesterol reducing effects from it greatly, and also superior endurance.

I have no doubt that coupled with gear, diet and HIIT that it will help burn that fat quick...I am just concerning myself with the health risks.

 

[pudzian2]

This pry isnt a big deal but why not finish with the tren. Meaning use it weeks 2/3-12.

I've heard most have had better success recovering when phasing off with just test. Meaning they cut the Tren out early enough for it to clear. (due to its nature of a "hard shutdown")

what do you think>?

 

[pudzian2]

whats the point of even coming off?

starting to see less of one everyday.....I just like keeping health #1 priority.......

 

[pudzian2]

Yeah I see what you mean, definitely takes a lot of thinking over to decide to stay on.

out of curiosity...how long have you been on? what gear? what health measures do you take? what are your goals?

 

[TripDog]

pudz tear it up man!!!! think about your health first man.....I am coming off 15 weeker and with Igf-1 now I can tell my nutts are getting abused....didn't see it till like week 13 ......be careful man!! .....Dont fukc yourself up for the end years man....I know of a few people that cycled to long and TOTALLY fukced themselves up perminant!!!!

 

[sfearl1]

subscribed ....again lol

looks kinda like what i want to do for a summer cut

 

[pistonpump]

why the furaz? Why dont you try something else like winny or var? I think you have some sort of furazabol fetish building up here...

 

[pudzian2]

pudz tear it up man!!!! think about your health first man.....I am coming off 15 weeker and with Igf-1 now I can tell my nutts are getting abused....didn't see it till like week 13 ......be careful man!! .....Dont fukc yourself up for the end years man....I know of a few people that cycled to long and TOTALLY fukced themselves up perminant!!!!

yea I hear that man..Health is my first priority. I do plenty of blood work and have am tight with my doc. were you using HCG on your 15 weeker? I won't be gettin back on until my blood work is in check, and then I give my system some time to rest. but soon therafter...its time to quit messin around again...

your buddies: did they cycle responsibly or just use.? what is their situation now?

 

[pudzian2]

why the furaz? Why dont you try something else like winny or var? I think you have some sort of furazabol fetish building up here...

hahah well i definitely dont wanna deal with winny. too harsh on lipids etc. Furazabol seems like a close and healthier alternative.... var might be a good choice too.....

 

[pudzian2]

subscribed ....again lol

looks kinda like what i want to do for a summer cut

thanks man...it should be quite the ride

 

[Travis]

I've heard most have had better success recovering when phasing off with just test. Meaning they cut the Tren out early enough for it to clear. (due to its nature of a "hard shutdown")

what do you think>?

Well if your shutdown your shutdown so it doesnt seem to matter to me? Anyone else think differently? I know some guys on other boards who do monster cycles... And from what I have seen they put the tren at the end. I'll try to find out why exactly from them since I really dont know nor am I experienced with it. Of course I am assuming they have a logical reason, but if not I'll let you know.

Here is an example of one guys upcoming cycle:

wk1-24 2000mg Test C EW
wk1-24 800mg EQ EW
wk14-24 750mg Tren E
4 week on, 4 week off anadrol 100mg ED

 

[TripDog]

were you using HCG on your 15 weeker?

your buddies: did they cycle responsibly or just use.? what is their situation now?

No I wasn't......just Igf-1

weren't buddies of mine just people I heard of.....when you work at a gym you hear stories...ya know

 

[UnrealMachine]

Well if your shutdown your shutdown so it doesnt seem to matter to me? Anyone else think differently? I know some guys on other boards who do monster cycles... And from what I have seen they put the tren at the end. I'll try to find out why exactly from them since I really dont know nor am I experienced with it. Of course I am assuming they have a logical reason, but if not I'll let you know.

Here is an example of one guys upcoming cycle:

wk1-24 2000mg Test C EW
wk1-24 800mg EQ EW
wk14-24 750mg Tren E
4 week on, 4 week off anadrol 100mg ED

That's a hell of a cycle bro, is he using HCG throughout? Recovery would be a pain, thats a lot of juice.

 

[pudzian2]

No I wasn't......just Igf-1

weren't buddies of mine just people I heard of.....when you work at a gym you hear stories...ya know

yea i hear ya.

 

[pudzian2]

I completely agree with this statement. That is also a sick cycle.

yea it definitely is....I suppose you guys are right...although I just heard that becuase of it's nature....people advised to let it clear a few weeks prior to PCT

 

[Travis]

That's a hell of a cycle bro, is he using HCG throughout? Recovery would be a pain, thats a lot of juice.

Honestly I'm not sure...need to read his whole thread still but I know he is going to compete and is somewhat close to the pro scene. Also I am not sure why he called it a cycle because I dont think he plans to come off fro about 2 years and just runs something between cycles. I was basically just using that as an example.

 

[datBtrue]

Well if your shutdown your shutdown so it doesnt seem to matter to me? Anyone else think differently?

Yes I think differently. But I am tired of the sound of my own post so let me quote from a post I found here by Mulletsoldier. I agree with him and he says it better then I could.

I am very surprised nobody has mentioned the poor choice in your cycle layout which very may well have led to this problem. Trenbolone is notorious for recovery issues during Post Cycle and definitely was not a good choice to end your cycle with. It shuts you down, very quickly and completely and has been shown to reach stability around the 3-4 week mark. Basically all you were doing running it for 5 weeks at the end of your cycle was setting yourself up for an extreme shutdown during Post Cycle with most likely less than anticipated effects from the Tren. If you do decide to run a cycle again, run it far nearer to the beginning and run your Test at least two weeks past the Tren to hopefully avoid some of the issues you are experiencing now.

From: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/609233-post9.html

 

[pudzian2]

Yes I think differently. But I am tired of the sound of my own post so let me quote from a post I found here by Mulletsoldier. I agree with him and he says it better then I could.

I am very surprised nobody has mentioned the poor choice in your cycle layout which very may well have led to this problem. Trenbolone is notorious for recovery issues during Post Cycle and definitely was not a good choice to end your cycle with. It shuts you down, very quickly and completely and has been shown to reach stability around the 3-4 week mark. Basically all you were doing running it for 5 weeks at the end of your cycle was setting yourself up for an extreme shutdown during Post Cycle with most likely less than anticipated effects from the Tren. If you do decide to run a cycle again, run it far nearer to the beginning and run your Test at least two weeks past the Tren to hopefully avoid some of the issues you are experiencing now.

From: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/609233-post9.html

yes. Im still in favor of this method. I think it could not hurt just to cut the tren out prior to test...especially if one anticipates a full recovery and not just a test bridge

 

[Travis]

Hmmmm, cant say I am sold. It doesnt make any sense to me. If you run the tren at the start you are still shut down when you drop it and are running it solo. Are you all saying that you will have some sort of recovery when your just running the test prop + furaz in this case?

Not arguing here just trying to understand. Thanks fellas...

 

[pudzian2]

Hmmmm, cant say I am sold. It doesnt make any sense to me. If you run the tren at the start you are still shut down when you drop it and are running it solo. Are you all saying that you will have some sort of recovery when your just running the test prop + furaz in this case?

Not arguing here just trying to understand. Thanks fellas...

im not sure its a clear cut answer. I think there are mechanisms that we dont all understand when it comes to different doses, lengths, and synergies. each drug has its own nature and own mechanisms by which it works. I am not saying that being shut down from x is always different than being shut down from y, but it stands to reason that the popular claims that certain compounds "shutdown harder" than others holds some credibility.

i do not know how the body would react as far as the HPTA is concerned when test and tren are combined, and then test is continued solo....it may ease the recovery process it may not...i dont know if there is any way to prove it besides very frequent blood hormone testing when the compounds are phased in and out...

then again..will the body be any less shutdown when tren is removed, after it has already done its "hard shutting down"....? (whether or not this is at the end or beginning of a cycle....i just dont know)

 

[Travis]

im not sure its a clear cut answer. I think there are mechanisms that we dont all understand when it comes to different doses, lengths, and synergies. each drug has its own nature and own mechanisms by which it works. I am not saying that being shut down from x is always different than being shut down from y, but it stands to reason that the popular claims that certain compounds "shutdown harder" than others holds some credibility.

i do not know how the body would react as far as the HPTA is concerned when test and tren are combined, and then test is continued solo....it may ease the recovery process it may not...i dont know if there is any way to prove it besides very frequent blood hormone testing when the compounds are phased in and out...

then again..will the body be any less shutdown when tren is removed, after it has already done its "hard shutting down"....? (whether or not this is at the end or beginning of a cycle....i just dont know)

Yep, good post. I suppose its really difficult to prove and since I was just nit picking to begin with it probably isnt worth our time to discuss any further.

I've always just thought of it in a way where if your introducing an exogenous source of test then shutdown will continue to occur up to some point (which more than likely varies by person/compound used). So beginning or end really didnt make sense to me as to which is more effective.

I posted this question on another private UG board. If I get any good info I'll post it over here.

 

[pudzian2]

Yep, good post. I suppose its really difficult to prove and since I was just nit picking to begin with it probably isnt worth our time to discuss any further.

I've always just thought of it in a way where if your introducing an exogenous source of test then shutdown will continue to occur up to some point (which more than likely varies by person/compound used). So beginning or end really didnt make sense to me as to which is more effective.

I posted this question on another private UG board. If I get any good info I'll post it over here.

sounds good man. It would definitely be comforting to hear others' opinions too.

 

[datBtrue]

Yep, good post. I suppose its really difficult to prove and since I was just nit picking to begin with it probably isnt worth our time to discuss any further.

I've always just thought of it in a way where if your introducing an exogenous source of test then shutdown will continue to occur up to some point (which more than likely varies by person/compound used). So beginning or end really didnt make sense to me as to which is more effective.

I posted this question on another private UG board. If I get any good info I'll post it over here.

I don't know if I can answer your question but keep in mind that Tren as well as Deca are progestins which act on progesterone receptors and/or or lower progesterone in the blood as well as increase prolactin in the blood.

Yes they also shutdown your HPTA as does testosterone.

Unlike testosterone they can add another layer of prolactin related problems which must be controled to avoid such things as lactation and which take time to recover once tren is ceased. How long? This is probably very subjective.

Some guys can handle Deca but not tren and vice versa. Others have problems with both and some have virtually no recovery problems. But IMO for the majority it will take several weeks longer to recover from the prolactin problems then it will for them to recover their HPTA. So Tren and Deca are often discontinued first (before test) so that by the time PCT comes around the first layer of problems has dissipated leaving only HPTA shutdown to deal with.

Hopefully someone will give you a better explanation than this...

 

[pistonpump]

Honestly I'm not sure...need to read his whole thread still but I know he is going to compete and is somewhat close to the pro scene. Also I am not sure why he called it a cycle because I dont think he plans to come off fro about 2 years and just runs something between cycles. I was basically just using that as an example.

thats exactly why he can run the tren at the end...it doesnt matter to him cuz he doesnt come off! If you do PCT after a cycle then Tren is a bad idea to end with.

 

[pistonpump]

I don't know if I can answer your question but keep in mind that Tren as well as Deca are progestins which act on progesterone receptors and/or or lower progesterone in the blood as well as increase prolactin in the blood.

Yes they also shutdown your HPTA as does testosterone.

Unlike testosterone they can add another layer of prolactin related problems which must be controled to avoid such things as lactation and which take time to recover once tren is ceased. How long? This is probably very subjective.

Some guys can handle Deca but not tren and vice versa. Others have problems with both and some have virtually no recovery problems. But IMO for the majority it will take several weeks longer to recover from the prolactin problems then it will for them to recover their HPTA. So Tren and Deca are often discontinued first (before test) so that by the time post cycle therapy comes around the first layer of problems has dissipated leaving only HPTA shutdown to deal with.

Hopefully someone will give you a better explanation than this...

:goodpost: well said.

Prolactin is the cause of serious recovery problems much more so than low to none natty testosterone levels.

 

[pudzian2]

:goodpost: well said.

Prolactin is the cause of serious recovery problems much more so than low to none natty testosterone levels.

agreed. DatBtrue-great explanation.

 

[pudzian2]

okay lets employ a hypothetical situation here:

I am continuing to further my research on trenbolone as a compond and as far as its use....

The prolactin / progestin issue...

Lets say the cycle I outlined above is a few weeks in....what are some of the common indications that using cabergoline or another method of controlling prolactin is necessary?

(I am asking for more real-life / experience answers, not so much from theory or on paper....we can't always feel or notice those things)

would it be common to begin a prolactin controlling regime from the start?

 

[pistonpump]

if youre having trouble getting or keeping an erection then i would think that would be a sign that the prolactin is on the rise.

If you got the dough to buy caber and use it throughout, i would.

 

[pudzian2]

if youre having trouble getting or keeping an erection then i would think that would be a sign that the prolactin is on the rise.

If you got the dough to buy caber and use it throughout, i would.

wat is a good dosage protocol for caber? I heard that one can take a certain amount of B6 and something else I think...unless it get's out of hand and then caber would be preferred.

 

[Distilled Water]

I ran caber 500mcg Mon/Thur during P.C.T from my M1T cycle and my prolactin issues were cleared withing a few doses. I was also doing B6 at about 400-600mg. I just recently came of superdrol and TST. I didnt use any prolactin controlers on cycle but in about my 3rd day P.C.T i had some prolactin issues. I got on cabre and bump0d up my B6 and 2days and its gone. I will stil take maybe 4 more doses to make sure it's clear.

O and if you do get on caber be ready for almost no refactory(sp?) period's. Its pretty much a shop til you drop kinda deal :lol:

 

[Distilled Water]

more like more "bang" for your "buck"?

yea I like that more. Mine makes me sound kinda gay, sorry guys. i let downt he group :ntome:

 

[Travis]

wat is a good dosage protocol for caber? I heard that one can take a certain amount of B6 and something else I think...unless it get's out of hand and then caber would be preferred.

The other OTC you might be thinking of was Vitex.

Good post Dat Brue btw. That makes a bit more sense.

And PP, that example I gave really is definitely not the ONLY cycle I have seen with tren placed at the end. Even with guys who actually "cycle" it seems to be more common on other boards.

Dat Brue's post does bring up some solid points though.

 

[datBtrue]

And PP, that example I gave really is definitely not the ONLY cycle I have seen with tren placed at the end. Even with guys who actually "cycle" it seems to be more common on other boards.

Travis is right. At most of the old "source" boards and a lot of boards with steroid talk I'd say the majority run tren up to the end of the cycle. The effect of the tren is that they close the cycle harder & drier. That is a big positive.

So I'm not saying don't do that...you may handle tren really well...my brother does and he is a tren junkie and runs it at the end of a cycle or heck the entire cycle...I don't handle tren well...go figure.

You can always resolve any prolactin issues in PCT as well...it might take a little longer. Nothing is written in stone bro...just things to consider.

 

[Antonek]

you can also try bromocriptine for prolactin / progestin issue
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/parlodel.htm

by Lyle McDonald - Bromocriptine is a dopamine agonist drug (meaning it acts like dopamine in the brain), primarily activating the dopamine D2 receptors. It's main use is for the treatment of high prolactin, Parkinson's disease, and acromegaly; it was also used by bodybuilders in the 80's for it's GH releasing properties. However, it's metabolic effects are far greater than that.

In genetically obese rats, bromocriptine normalizes metabolism and there are many good reasons to think it will do the same in humans. Bromocriptine has use during dieting (to minimize the negative adaptations), muscle gain when very lean, and may be beneficial post-steroid cycle. It may also be useful for diabetes treatment and may have pro-sexual effects.

Bromocriptine has a half-life of roughly 12-14 hours, and dosing is 2.5-5 mg/day taken in the morning.

Bromocriptine is the chemical name of active ingredient in Parlodel. Parlodel is a registered trademark of Sandoz Pharmaceuticals in the United States and/or other countries.

 

[pudzian2]

you can also try bromocriptine for prolactin / progestin issue
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/parlodel.htm

oh yea! that was what I was thinking of. thanks man.

 

[pudzian2]

back to my first post, anyone have suggestions as to how to dose ECA with the albuterol in the plan i outlined?

 

[pudzian2]

Im definitely going to run a little EQ in this cycle for the joints. I dont like the fact that test blunts collagen synth. I also have creaking joints with naggin injuries in a few spots so I think it will help with that. i will probably run it about 600mg? I think anything less will not really do much for me joint wise

 

[Antonek]

back to my first post, anyone have suggestions as to how to dose ECA with the albuterol in the plan i outlined?

I was doing something like this:

ECA: 25mg three times a day [sometimes 50mg pre workout]
albuterol: 3x2tabs [4mg each tab] = 24mg a day

but start from lower doses, first few days eca only or headaches will kill ya, you'll know when add more stuff, when side effect will be tolerable, then slowly add more.

keep ballance between side effect and optimum doses [eca minimum 3x25mg+200coffeine, albuterol 16mg is minimum for fat loss effet, 24-32 is nice]

 

[pistonpump]

Im definitely going to run a little EQ in this cycle for the joints. I dont like the fact that test blunts collagen synth. I also have creaking joints with naggin injuries in a few spots so I think it will help with that. i will probably run it about 600mg? I think anything less will not really do much for me joint wise

why not deca?

 

[pudzian2]

why not deca?

well I would consider running deca, but i was worried about an increased risk of progestin sides from the tren and deca. what do you think? Deca is a more favorable anabolic substance in my opinion, but I just though EQ would be mild and would do the job with the joints.

 

[pudzian2]

I was doing something like this:

ECA: 25mg three times a day [sometimes 50mg pre workout]
albuterol: 3x2tabs [4mg each tab] = 24mg a day

but start from lower doses, first few days eca only or headaches will kill ya, you'll know when add more stuff, when side effect will be tolerable, then slowly add more.

keep ballance between side effect and optimum doses [eca minimum 3x25mg+200coffeine, albuterol 16mg is minimum for fat loss effet, 24-32 is nice]

thanks man. I appreciate the dosage help. How has this worked for you result wise?

 

[pistonpump]

well I would consider running deca, but i was worried about an increased risk of progestin sides from the tren and deca. what do you think? Deca is a more favorable anabolic substance in my opinion, but I just though EQ would be mild and would do the job with the joints.

yah, forgot you were running tren in this one. I think if you can get away with it then go ahead but for the most part its a pretty :fool2: stack to go deca and tren. Libido comes to mind as well. I was just thinking the EQ takes to long to kick. You could get some bold base and make a transdermal or look for some boldenone cyp. I personally would run anavar if i was in your position with this cycle plan.

 

[pudzian2]

yah, forgot you were running tren in this one. I think if you can get away with it then go ahead but for the most part its a pretty :fool2: stack to go deca and tren. Libido comes to mind as well. I was just thinking the EQ takes to long to kick. You could get some bold base and make a transdermal or look for some boldenone cyp. I personally would run anavar if i was in your position with this cycle plan.

that's true about the EQ...it would be pretty sick to run Deca and Tren with a base of test...... var would work well but I'd rather run no oral besides bookends if necessary. I definitely need something for collagen synth..... maybe just a small dose of deca?

 

[Antonek]

thanks man. I appreciate the dosage help. How has this worked for you result wise?

It is actually my favourite fat-loss combo and it works great

if U cut on carbs result will be verry soon noticable

3-4weeks on eca+albuterol, 2weeks on clenbuterol - then repeat - it makes wonders for me - also 2weeks eca+alb.. - 2weeks clen is fine but albuterol can be taken longer than 2 weeks just like eca so I suggest 4 weeks

regards

 

[pudzian2]

It is actually my favourite fat-loss combo and it works great

if U cut on carbs result will be verry soon noticable

3-4weeks on eca+albuterol, 2weeks on clenbuterol - then repeat - it makes wonders for me - also 2weeks eca+alb.. - 2weeks clen is fine but albuterol can be taken longer than 2 weeks just like eca so I suggest 4 weeks

regards

awesome man. This is the strategy I will employ, however I am not so fond of clenbuterol from research.(havent tried it)....do you think similar fatloss could be obtained with a longer eca+albuterol regime esp when diet is near perfect. or has clen made that much of a difference for you.

 

[Antonek]

awesome man. This is the strategy I will employ, however I am not so fond of clenbuterol from research.(havent tried it)....do you think similar fatloss could be obtained with a longer eca+albuterol regime esp when diet is near perfect. or has clen made that much of a difference for you.

sure... U'll have similiar results with albutrol+eca

if U plan taking albuterol longer than 4 weeks U can try get some ketotifen - it clears beta-2 receptors and albuterol can be taken longer

so answering 2 your question - I'm sure U'll be satisfied with results

good luck mate