strength post ph cycle

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    kelsey's Avatar
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    Not to long a go i was under the impression that there was no reason a guy who cycled AS could not keep a great majority of his lbm gains.

    QUESTION:

    Once i achieve my lbm potential, which will probably happen within the next five years ish, And I decide to try an AS cycle, are you saying that I would probably lose all of the lbm gains? assuming my diet is in check

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    As others have said, great thread. Props to PC1 for taking the time to provide us with a well thought out, articulate series of posts.
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    PC1,

    Fantastic posts and info. Sure we all get caught up in the quest for continual improvement, but we needed to be reminded occasionally that there is no magic formula or routine. Really appreciate your common sense posts.

    Thank you, Avalon7
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    Dam I got to admit this is an awsome thread by all,but Kudos to you PC-1 for articulating your position so well,truly impressive.My experience has been it did not matter whether I did AAS 20 years ago or Prohormones now(im too old to be sticking needles in me)
    I always lost all my size when I went off cycle,that is why I only used gear and Ph's when I was cutting up.I found that I could really restrict calories without cutting out too much protien so I could maintain muscle mass while strictly dieting.Once I had reached my ideal Bodyfat (none) I would gradually increase overall calories and be able retain some mass..This method works for me because it's not a big loss while im dieting but if I go off cycle and loose alot of mass that would play with my head too much so I avoid the temptation......Great thread guy's
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    I have been on other boards. I have used ph/ps in the past and currently in a ph/ps cycle. I greatly appreciate this thread. Excellent information that you can take to the bank! Thanks PC1
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    pc1 - thats a very informative thread but very depressing. If someone reaches their limit then there really isn't much of a point in continuing to try and gain muscle if its all in vain. This read has given me mixed opinions about weight lifting in general now.

    Do you suggest taking ph's or AAS at all now with your prior experience? Its hard to tell from your post where you now stand on AAS and PH use. It seems liek your basically suggesting to use them at the beggining so you reach your potenitial alot quicker than you would if you trained naturally (but in the end your goin to be at the same point anyways, just time is a factor).

    How does one know their limit? Ive known people who were at a plateau and thought that was their limit but then added pounds to their frame and lifts. I can't see how that picture above is that mans limit, he is a bean pole... he could add alot more weight on his frame if he wanted too (i just can't see his endocrine system being at that physique)

    sorry about the rambling im just confussed about everything now. I don't want to waste hours in the gym and money on food and supps if i can only be a 203 lb skinny guy the rest of my life.
  7. PC1
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    So... Future Prodigy, what happens if you stop training? You'll lose everything you've gained through your hard work and discipline.

    Why is one's "natural potential" being seen as such a bad thing?

    My overall point was to counter a long held belief that guys should wait 5-10 years of training naturally before they get into AS or PH's, because they will gain more from them if they hit their natural potential first. My personal experience and observation from others is that guys tend to keep more of their gains if they're still within their natural potential and have good pct, rather than guys who have waited the 5-10 years before starting.

    In the case of the guys who waited, maybe they can keep some of the gains, but usually much of it is lost. It's no reason for depression, just as you understand that all of the size and strength gains you've accumulated from weight training naturally would be lost to you if you stopped training altogether.

    I think if guys have unrealistic expectations going into an AS cycle, thinking they're going to put on 25 lbs of mass and will keep 23 lbs of them pct, those are the guys who are going to be depressed when they only end up keeping 4-5 pounds.

    Now, I'm not saying everyone will only keep 4-5 pounds pct, but it does happen. And maybe if you've been training naturally for many years and have made good progress, you'd be better off staying that way.

    There is a lot of great PCT advice on this board, and many people do very well with it. I've learned a lot here and have made improvements in size and strength retention pct. But, it's definitely a game of diminishing returns, and it's something to keep in mind especially if you're an older fart like me and concerned with increasing risks of sides
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    maybe i am taking everythign the wrong way but after reading these posts i want to use PH's so i can reach my natural potential quicker instead of waiting 5-10 years.

    When you say you think AS should be used once you reach your natural potential because you will benefit more from the cycle. How is this so ( i couldn't think how else to word it, i tried... i mean no offence!)? If you won't keep any of your gains past that limit then whats the point, you mentioned earlier that AS and PH's are basically tools just to reach your limit quicker?
  9. PC1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future Prodigy
    maybe i am taking everythign the wrong way but after reading these posts i want to use PH's so i can reach my natural potential quicker instead of waiting 5-10 years.

    When you say you think AS should be used once you reach your natural potential because you will benefit more from the cycle. How is this so ( i couldn't think how else to word it, i tried... i mean no offence!)? If you won't keep any of your gains past that limit then whats the point, you mentioned earlier that AS and PH's are basically tools just to reach your limit quicker?
    I agree generally with your first paragraph.

    On the second paragraph, I don't think I've indicated AS should be used once one reaches their natural potential, versus using PH prior to that?

    AS are similar to PH in many respects, although they are a more potent albeit illegal alternative. One has to consider the additional risks associated with their illegality.

    You have to keep in mind that a lot of the size gains that come from a compound like dbol are water weight. A lot of that goes away pct.
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