Oh no gyno

[LilPsychotic]

I ran a cycle of epi in september, and followed up with proper pct (SERM+Anti cort). Several hours after waking up this morning, I noticed a lump behind my nipple. I popped up quite suddenly. At this point I'm freaking out. I took 40 mg of nolva, and have no AI on hand except 6 oxo and adt. The only things I've been taking are a few RPMs, and I recently added some saw palmetto to my staple supps, which include flax oil and milk thistle. Can anybody make some suggestions. This is so freaking weird. I do recall some sensitivity in the nips over the past week, but I never really gave it a second thought. I can get letro, but not until later on in the week. I think I'm done w/ phs for good, this is bullsh*t.

 

[pistonpump]

yup the sh1t definately is the fvckin pits. Good luck.

Im begining to see alot of gyno from post post epi cycles.....not a good thing.

 

[LilPsychotic]

Any suggestions?

 

[richirich_99]

i'd get the letro and use that, i've read a lot of guys have had good sucess with that. as for doses, you'll have to search and read up as im not 100% sure.

 

[joeymutz]

start with .5mg of letro then up it by.5 everyday till u get to 2.5 mgs. stay at that dose until the gyno goes away...keep it there a few days after to make sure its gone then taper back down. i'm doing this right now and so far i'm at 2.5 mgs today and the soreness is gone and the lump has gotten alot smaller i will be running raxifene at 120, 90, 60, 30 once the letro is done.

 

[LilPsychotic]

Any one else have suggestions? The earliest I can get letro is wednesday. What to do in the meantime?

 

[dhuge67]

Any one else have suggestions? The earliest I can get letro is wednesday. What to do in the meantime?

resveratrol...

 

[Skigazzi]

Any one else have suggestions? The earliest I can get letro is wednesday. What to do in the meantime?

Nicotine gum

 

[LilPsychotic]

Nicotine gum

I upped my skoal long cut from 1/2 can to a can/day. Yesterday I took 60mg of nolva, and it seems to have had some effect, but the area around the nipple is still red and irritated. However, some of the pain and swelling went down. This sh*t f*cking SUCKS. I never had gyno before, and I did all the suggested things during my last cycle, but obviously my hormones were still all f*cked up a month+ later. If it continues to go down, I'll just taper off the nolva. If it doesn't, or gets worse luckily I can get some letro and I'll try that. If my treatment is sucessful, I'll post the results. I have some 6-oxo, I might through that for a while and continue to taper w/ nolva.

 

[Das]

Any one else have suggestions? The earliest I can get letro is wednesday. What to do in the meantime?

Yo LilPsychotic... could I know how much Epi and serm you used? The serm was nolva the whole pct? How long was your cycle/pct?

Thanks man

 

[LilPsychotic]

Yo LilPsychotic... could I know how much Epi and serm you used? The serm was nolva the whole post cycle therapy? How long was your cycle/post cycle therapy?

Thanks man

I tapered epi up to 40 mg in the 1st week, then went up to 50 in the last week so my 4 week looked like this:10,20,30,40/40/40/50. All 4 times/week on wo days. I then started 3 weeks of post cycle therapy with Nolvadex 40/20/10, and x-lean 150/100/50. Since then Ive been using RPM on workout days. I think I should have waited a while to use anything that could cause hormonal imbalance, because my hormones were still fluctuating. Also, I got a deal on some saw palmetto, and used that for 3 days before the gyno popped up. I don't know if it was the EPI, or just a mix of things f*cking up my hormones, and stress. I think I may have gotten it in time, because I've gotten some relief since yesterday by slamming myself with Nolva. If its not gone by tomarrow night, I can get some letro which should get rid of it(I'm hoping). However, even if an AI is used, I'll have to stay with a SERM taper to avoid any rebound effects.

 

[broken7]

Have you used superdrol in the past ?

 

[dawaro]

Nicotine gum

What does the nicotine gum do??

 

[LilPsychotic]

Have you used superdrol in the past ?

No, always been afraid to use super. From a healthcare standpoint, the benefits just don't outweigh the risks with this compound. I've studied it, thought about it, and decided against it.

 

[LilPsychotic]

What does the nicotine gum do??

Nicotine is a very mild aromatase inhibitor.

 

[Das]

Nicotine is a very mild aromatase inhibitor.

so would a smoke work too :]

 

[EasyEJL]

I tapered epi up to 40 mg in the 1st week, then went up to 50 in the last week so my 4 week looked like this:10,20,30,40/40/40/50. All 4 times/week on wo days.

Wait, you were pulsing? not a straight cycle?

 

[T H E O R E M]

Wait, you were pulsing? not a straight cycle?

AH HA! perhaps the culprit, i ididnt see that in his first post right away!

 

[LilPsychotic]

so would a smoke work too :]

sure, but I wouldn't recommend it because of other adverse effects from smoking. Remember, the AI effects of nicotine are very weak.

 

[LilPsychotic]

Wait, you were pulsing? not a straight cycle?

Yeah, pulse cycle. Maybe pulsing caused too much of a hormonal imbalance, and the scales eventually tipped for one reason or another. Today is my third day of Nolva, and the region shrunk significantly but is still mildly inflammed. I do know that Nolva only shrinks the gland, doesn't get rid of it completely. But I don't think there is a drug that can do that, even a strong AI like letro (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think once the gland has developed, its there for life. Thats why people consider themselves "gyno prone" once they've had gyno once). I don't know, but this is sure gonna hamper any cycles run in the future, God I thought I was paranoid before. Well, maybe being paranoid isn't such a bad thing because it keeps us on our toes.

 

[Skigazzi]

sure, but I wouldn't recommend it because of other adverse effects from smoking. Remember, the AI effects of nicotine are very weak.

I dont recommend smoking to anyone either.

Nicotine gum is kind of a 'oh **** my nolva is missing' last resort kinda thing, but it can buy people a day or 2

 

[RenegadeRows]

I have to blame it on the pulse. I never been a fan of that particular idea.

Just go into standard Nolva/AI mode until it disappates. I'm very prone to gyno and have run Epi a few times. I've been off cycle for about 6 months and havent seen much of my gyno return (naturally, some did)

 

[Movin_weight]

I dont recommend smoking to anyone either.

Nicotine gum is kind of a 'oh **** my nolva is missing' last resort kinda thing, but it can buy people a day or 2

lol i'v never heard of this? I chew 1/2 tin a day and have never noticed any AI properties... maybe it helps for newbs that don't normally use nicotine

 

[RenegadeRows]

lol i'v never heard of this? I chew 1/2 tin a day and have never noticed any AI properties... maybe it helps for newbs that don't normally use nicotine

Smoking is what got rid of my prepubscent gyno. Steroids fixed that problem for me.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Pheraplex gave me gyno, and I was very hesitant to use ANOTHER STEROID to get rid of it. What if it gets worse I said? But I just did a cycle and had faith. Wallah, it worked!

My next cycle I got greedy, and actually went up to 30-40mg per day. I was looking for mass gains and MORE gyno reduction. But for some strange, strange reason ... my gyno flared up. From Epi? Yep.

So I did another cycle. Didn't go above 20mg and did a 'cutter'. My gyno virtually disappeared. Some did come back after PCT, but that is natural when playing with your hormones. (Can't stay on PCT forever.)

So I'd hate to recommend a cycle of Epi to clear up what Epi caused, but it may be worth a shot if you can't get it to go down with conventional methods (SERM)

Sometimes the best solution to a problem lies in what caused the problem itself.

I got a tattoo one time, I was a little embarassed by it. What was the solution? More tattoos. Now the ones I got cover that one up and I am proud to wear the ink.

Renegade

 

[pistonpump]

i resorted to epi too and it did more for me than SERMS and AIs...

OP, what were you taking on your off days during the pulse?

 

[EasyEJL]

i have wondered that, the epi pulse vs full cycle. due to the anti-estrogen functionality whether an epistane pulse is scarier than a full cycle of most other compounds (including epi itself)

 

[RenegadeRows]

i have wondered that, the epi pulse vs full cycle. due to the anti-estrogen functionality whether an epistane pulse is scarier than a full cycle of most other compounds (including epi itself)

I think the anti E can only manifest if the compound is taken everyday. Therefor you may see gains on a pulse but not the gyno reducing properties you see with a straight cycle

 

[LilPsychotic]

i resorted to epi too and it did more for me than SERMS and AIs...

OP, what were you taking on your off days during the pulse?

2 x lean and 50 of DHEA purely to minimize shutdown.

 

[LilPsychotic]

I think the anti E can only manifest if the compound is taken everyday. Therefor you may see gains on a pulse but not the gyno reducing properties you see with a straight cycle

Yeah, I not enough of a steady state is acheived during a pulse, I guess thats the idea.

 

[T H E O R E M]

Pheraplex gave me gyno, and I was very hesitant to use ANOTHER STEROID to get rid of it. What if it gets worse I said? But I just did a cycle and had faith. Wallah, it worked!

My next cycle I got greedy, and actually went up to 30-40mg per day. I was looking for mass gains and MORE gyno reduction. But for some strange, strange reason ... my gyno flared up. From Epi? Yep.

So I did another cycle. Didn't go above 20mg and did a 'cutter'. My gyno virtually disappeared. Some did come back after post cycle therapy, but that is natural when playing with your hormones. (Can't stay on post cycle therapy forever.)

So I'd hate to recommend a cycle of Epi to clear up what Epi caused, but it may be worth a shot if you can't get it to go down with conventional methods (SERM)

Sometimes the best solution to a problem lies in what caused the problem itself.

I got a tattoo one time, I was a little embarassed by it. What was the solution? More tattoos. Now the ones I got cover that one up and I am proud to wear the ink.

Renegade

lately ive been seeing alot of consensus around the Lower dosing of EPI. so is this just your experience or what? from what Dr. d seemed to recommend it was the higher dose for GYNO reduction...but users are reporting otherwise....id like to really avoid a flare up for my cycle.

 

[RenegadeRows]

lately ive been seeing alot of consensus around the Lower dosing of EPI. so is this just your experience or what? from what Dr. d seemed to recommend it was the higher dose for GYNO reduction...but users are reporting otherwise....id like to really avoid a flare up for my cycle.

Well, everyone is different, for one. Personally, 20mg was a sweet spot for me. I've also seen people say the same. But my friend Mike had better reductions went he higher with the dosing. Everyone is different.

But I know that 10mg halflife is 8 hours. I took mine in the morning, and approx. 9-10 hours later. That means I was covered for 20 out of 24 hours as far as estrogen receptors are concerned.

Do you need that extra 10mg for 4 hours? You'd get some overlapping, possibly flooding the receptor with Epistane?

Not to mention Dr D said Epistane will stick around and continue reductions for you even after you stop, so if your goal is to reduce gyno I don't see the need for 30mg per day.

if you want to run the cycle for muscle gains, thats a different story. 20mg will bring you some great gains, but if your not worried about gyno i'd go higher.

Hell, what do I know. Trial and error brought me to 20mg with great gains, reductions in gyno and no sides.

Try out 30mg and see if that works better. If it doesn't just drop it back down to 20mg.

Renegade

 

[RenegadeRows]

Think about this. Epi and SERMs act as a 'false estrogen' to compete for the receptor. We all know that estrogen triggers growth at the receptor site. But perhaps once we start getting into higher doses of Epi, the test to estrogen conversion happening in our body outweigh it's anti-E properties? Doesn't that mean the estrogen will overpower EPI at the receptor site? I dunno.

Remember Epistane is a powerful steroid, regardless of it's anti-estrogen properties.

Anybody knows that even taking Nolvadex during a cycle of gear will not totally 100% guard against gyno.

Take it with a grain of salt.

RR

 

[T H E O R E M]

if i remember correctly i did 20,30,30,40

after the second week i noticed nothing with gyno so...perhaps this was why...

 

[Das]

Any one else have suggestions? The earliest I can get letro is wednesday. What to do in the meantime?

Hey, LilP.. I was wondering how things were going? Did letro fix the problem?? Let us know man!!

 

[mayneVayne]

20 mgs is the sweet spot for me also. Noticed a huge reduction in gyno and great gains. Got greedy and ended up at 60 like a dumb ass now I've got teardrop tits again. On letro right now to raise the girls back up and square 'em off again. After that I'm going back on for another 4 weeker. Don't pulse, and don't go above 20mg and its great.