Superdrol ??'s

UNCfan1

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Ok I want to try and figure something out here. I have noticed that quite a few people across a few boards are reporting gyno while on, during PCT and after PCT. I have also noted that its with clones and/orusage of ATD during PCT's.

So if everyone that has used any type of Superdrol please chime in.

What I am looking for-

What brand was used?

What dose and duration was used?

What was used in ur PCT?

Any prior problems with gyno before usage of Superdrol or clones?

I have used AX's Superdrol during a pulse and didn't have a hint of gyno. I will be using it again in the near future for a straight cycle.

If anyone has thoughts on why this is happening please offer it up. I am very curious!!
 
Travis

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Two problems with gyno+SD have been speculated:

1. Use of ATD in PCT
2. Use of Nolva in PCT

Both are just speculation at this point I think. But yeah it would be nice to try and make some connections with all these gyno issues.
 

hockeyroom28

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What is ATD? I searched but couldn't find exactly what it was. Is it just a different chem used in PCT? Its completely different than Clomid, Nolva, Aromasin, Letro right? Thanks
 
UnrealMachine

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there have been many posts made on the subject. I don't remember for sure but this is basically the impression i got:

1) nolva upregulates progesterone receptors (superdrol is a progestin) and so increases likelihood of progestin-induced gyno in post cycle therapy or later
2) use of ATD in superdrol post cycle therapy can lead to an estrogen rebound leading to gyno symptoms

I got the impression that using Toremifene is the safest PCT option for superdrol.
 
UNCfan1

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there have been many posts made on the subject. I don't remember for sure but this is basically the impression i got:

1) nolva upregulates progesterone receptors (superdrol is a progestin) and so increases likelihood of progestin-induced gyno in post cycle therapy or later
2) use of ATD in superdrol post cycle therapy can lead to an estrogen rebound leading to gyno symptoms

I got the impression that using Toremifene is the safest post cycle therapy option for superdrol.
Can u explain to me how SD is a progestin? I never heard of that. That would explain the nolva part.
 
UnrealMachine

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Can u explain to me how superdrol is a progestin? I never heard of that. That would explain the nolva part.
I don't know any of the science here, but i've heard it over and over, the SD is a progestin and Nolva makes you sensitive to it, and the gyno is "prolactin-induced" now i don't know the difference between progestin and prolactin but it seems like its tied together.

Maybe someone that knows more could clarify here.

SD technically doesn't aromatize so the gyno is not estrogen-induced, so it must be caused by progestin/prolactin.
 
Travis

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If you read through all the old threads there has been tons of debate on whether SD is a progestin. Seems nobody really knows however its causing prolactin problems through some mechanism so be prepared to fight it if you want to use SD.
 
UNCfan1

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I don't know any of the science here, but i've heard it over and over, the superdrol is a progestin and Nolva makes you sensitive to it, and the gyno is "prolactin-induced" now i don't know the difference between progestin and prolactin but it seems like its tied together.

Maybe someone that knows more could clarify here.

SD technically doesn't aromatize so the gyno is not estrogen-induced, so it must be caused by progestin/prolactin.
Got to love designers huh lol. No one knows what its in Tren based products, same with TST. Phera/Ergo debates and now SD. Madness lol.

Thanks alot of ur input!
 
UNCfan1

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If infact the clones are tainted with anadrol then that would explain for the gyno as well. Unless someone can prove that SD is a progestin. Cause I don't recall to many users of the original SD getting gyno. I will look thru some old threads just to be sure.

Hopefully some of the guys that can break down the chemicals will chime in. This interests me alot for some reason.
 

Solitude

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Good thread UNC!

Subbed for sure.

I think I've read in some other threads in one of Dr.D's post, he said that Superdrol is not a progestin, but I could be wrong.

We need Dr.D in here. :D
 
slow-mun

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I don't know any of the science here, but i've heard it over and over, the superdrol is a progestin and Nolva makes you sensitive to it, and the gyno is "prolactin-induced" now i don't know the difference between progestin and prolactin but it seems like its tied together.

Maybe someone that knows more could clarify here.

SD technically doesn't aromatize so the gyno is not estrogen-induced, so it must be caused by progestin/prolactin.
The science part of SD being a progestin would be progesterone being part of the chemical structure (which it is not). Its DHT derived. Here's some interesting info-
The REAL superdrol Write-Up

The confusion surrounding superdrol is the result of an ill-conceived name, given to this substance, probably for marketing purposes. Which ever idiot came up with the name or first starting suggesting that superdrol has anything in common with oxymetholone (Anadrol) has thoroughly demonstrated that he/she lacks any and all insight in biochemistry. Other than the fact that both are 5alpha-reduced anabolic androgenic steroids, they have very little if anything in common.

Superdrol is a compound that was known for some time prior to it being known as such. I for one came in contact with the drug following the debate surrounding IP’s equally ill-named product called ‘oral Masteron’, which ended up being nothing more than mestanolone (17alpha-methyl-DHT). Mestanolone is actually oral DHT (if for arguments sake we suggest that the addition of 17alpha-methyl group indicates the compound as being the oral of the parent steroid, which is not strictly true). I commented that to be oral masteron it would have to be 2alpha-methyl-mestanolone, or more aptly 17alpha-methyl-drostanolone (drostanolone being Masteron). That is what we called the product back then, 17alpha-methyl-drostanolone. That was only a few years ago. But it seems somehow inconceivable that this compound hadn’t been investigated decades before. So it probably has an even longer history.

From this you can also already deduce that ‘superdrol’ is in actuality a cross between drostanolone and mestanolone, since it has the 2alpha-methyl group of drostanolone and the 17alpha-methyl-group of mestanolone. Oxymetholone is an entirely different compound, which differs from superdrol by substitution of the 2-methyl group with a 2-hydroxymethylene group. A methyl group is completely inert, since it is apolar. It confers no special biochemical properties upon the group, it is merely steric bulk. Which is exactly its purpose. It provides steric hindrance for 3alpha- and 3beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes, so that in contrast to mestanolone, the product is not deactivated in muscle tissue so fast. Mestanolone is nearly inactive as an anabolic substance, because it is rapidly deactivated to 3-hydroxy metabolites. Because the 2-methyl group reduces binding of the enzymes that catalyze this, it reduces the rate of deactivation and superdrol, in contrast to mestanolone, has some anabolic activity.

Oxymetholone on the other hand has a hydroxylated carbon attached to the 2nd carbon, a polar group that is chemically reactive. That carbon is also double-bonded tot the steran nucleus, which further increases reactivity of the oxygen atom. By what mechanisms is not exactly clear yet, but this gives oxymetholone some rather unique properties, likely due to interaction with other structures that most AAS do not, or barely interact with. To illustrate I uploaded the following drawing. It shows superdrol as the cross of mestanolone and drostanolone, and underneath mestanolone is oxymetholone, since oxymetholone is also a derivative of mestanolone.

http://users.pandora.be/Bigcat/superdrol.JPG

Anabolic activity : Because of the added 17alpha-methyl group, superdrol is less succeptible to metabolic deactivation. It cannot form 17-keto-steroids, and the likelihood of 16-hydroxylations is considerably reduced as well, due to this addition. This means it probably stays active longer than does drostanolone and is excreted at a lower rate. Unfortunately, the 2-methyl-group already reduces binding to the androgen receptor (1) and the 17alpha-methyl group further reduces it (1). This seems to even out the odds for superdrol, giving it roughly the same amount of anabolic activity as drostanolone. That means superdrol is by no means a serious muscle builder, except perhaps to those smaller in stature or as of yet unexperienced with other anabolic androgenic steroids. This puts its anabolic activity in the neighbourhood of other non-aromatizing, weak oral androgens, such as Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (Stanozolol) and Halotestin (Fluoxymesterone).

Androgenic activity : Comparing it to these other weak, oral, non-aromatizing androgens, the androgenic activity is considerably less than for halotestin, but considerably higher than for winstrol and anavar. The reason being that despite increased activity in muscle compared to mestanolone, deactivation is still stronger in muscle (the 2-methyl group reduces but does not eliminate reduction of the 3-keto function (2)). And contrary to popular belief, a non-deactivated DHT does still not have the same level of activity in muscle as it does in androgenic target tissues. Androgenic side-effects rarely occur in healthy young men, but if you have reason to fear such effects, than superdrol is probably the poorer choice when compared to anavar or winstrol. A lot of athletes however seem to suggest that using stronger androgens seems to increase muscle density when body-fat is low. And while this is a rather subjective trait, this does seem to hold true for superdrol as well. In which case it would then probably be a better choice than the other mentioned oral steroids.

Estrogenic/Progestagenic activity : Like most 5-alpha-reduced steroids, this product has no estrogenic activity. Neither mestanolone nor drostanolone are capable of aromatization either. Whoever is producing this stuff now seems to want to convey that it is a major plus that this does not have estrogenic effects like oxymetholone, but first off, remember that this steroid has NOTHING in common with oxymetholone and secondly, the perceived estrogenic effects of oxymetholone have never been established as being estrogenic, because despite massive bloating, the prevalence of estrogenic side-effects with oxymetholone remains low when used with other AAS to non-existent when used alone. Whether or not this drug still has anti-estrogenic activity like drostanolone is questionable. I certainly wouldn’t count on it.

Liver-toxicity : The hepatoxicity of this compound is rather high. That may have been one of the reasons no one has marketed or researched such a compound for pharmaceutical use before. In all instances I observed personally (which were admittedly only 4 instances of use of 40 mg/day for 6 weeks), liver values were elevated above acceptable levels, and considerably elevated above the values seen for the same duration of time with equal (dbol) or higher (Anavar, Anadrol, Winstrol) doses of other commonly (ab)used oral steroids. Use should therefore definitely be restricted to 30-40 mg/day for 6 weeks. If higher doses are used, or compound is used for a longer period of time, liver values should be checked at regular intervals.

Stacking and use : It should be quite obvious that the use of this compound (at least to the experienced steroid user) will be limited to cutting purposes. For the same amount of money there are simply far more suitable compounds for gaining muscle mass. As with most oral steroids (with notable exception of Halotestin) I would advise against using it alone, in conjunction with other oral steroids, or in the last week of a cycle. This because most 17alpha-alkylated androgens are known to increase glucocorticoid receptor density (3) and result in increased loss of muscle mass post-cycle. An added reason for not using it with other oral steroids is the increased risk for hepatoxic side-effects.

References

(1) Ojasoo T, Raynaud JP.Unique steroid congeners for receptor studies.Cancer Res. 1978 Nov;38(11 Pt 2):4186-98

(2) de Boer D, de Jong EG, Maes RA, van Rossum JM.The methyl-5 alpha-dihydrotestosterones mesterolone and drostanolone; gas chromatographic/mass spectrometric characterization of the urinary metabolites.J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1992 May;42(3-4):411-9.

(3) Fernandez L, Boada LD, Luzardo OP, Zumbado M, Lopez A, Diaz-Chico BN, Chirino R.[3H]dexamethasone binding activity in liver microsomes is modulated differently by 17 alpha-alkylated androgens and testosterone in vivo.Pharmacol Toxicol. 1995 Oct;77(4):264-9.
 
UNCfan1

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Good info there Sol.

So, its def not a progestin. Where is the gyno coming from? Bad PCT? Most likely. What about people getting during? Should an AI be ran just incase? LOL Confused but still plan on using it lol.
 
antodrol

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I think SD act like A-bomb on ERs...when you stack a progestin base substance you can see estrogenic sides.
I've see this when I've run SD with M-dien (70% RBA for the Progesteron receptors), my lumps under my nipples got big, I taken off the SD and my nipples got better...
When you stop your SD cycle and start PCT with tamoxy, the superdrol stay in your system for long than a week (I think), take nolva and you up regolate the progesteron receptors...
I've a good recovery after SD cycles when I run 2 weeks with DHT based drugs like mestanolone or m5aa and after take the nolva when SD falls out from your body...
 

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Good info there Sol.

So, its def not a progestin. Where is the gyno coming from? Bad post cycle therapy? Most likely. What about people getting during? Should an AI be ran just incase? LOL Confused but still plan on using it lol.
LOL!

Yeah superdrol has pretty mysterious sides, I always wanted to try it, but I chicken out at the end. :eek:

It's the thought of unpredictable delayed gyno that really scares me... :sad:
 

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That means superdrol is by no means a serious muscle builder
Could someone elaborate on this? I've done three cycles of superdrol and blew up on each of them. In fact, just about everyone I know that has taken superdrol has make huge gains, and superdrol was by no means their first cycle.
 
slow-mun

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Good info there Sol.

So, its def not a progestin. Where is the gyno coming from? Bad post cycle therapy? Most likely. What about people getting during? Should an AI be ran just incase? LOL Confused but still plan on using it lol.
Here's my thoughts on where this might have originated-

1. I think SD, while not inherently estrogenic, has the distinct ability to make any other compounds become that way.
2. I think it has a longer half-life than assumed.
3. I think many people ran it with only an AI for PCT.
4. I think people may have added items in PCT that may have contributed to gyno while the SD was still active(i.e. DHEA and Long Jack).
 
slow-mun

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Could someone elaborate on this? I've done three cycles of superdrol and blew up on each of them. In fact, just about everyone I know that has taken superdrol has make huge gains, and superdrol was by no means their first cycle.
I think it is comparison to things like Anadrol and D-Bol as far as muscle gains. I also feel as if SD gains are mostly glocogen stores. BTW, that article was not written by me.
 

dice404

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I think it is comparison to things like Anadrol and D-Bol as far as muscle gains.
Ya i guess in comparison that makes sense. I appreciate the reply.
 
UNCfan1

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I think superdrol act like A-bomb on ERs...when you stack a progestin base substance you can see estrogenic sides.
I've see this when I've run SD with M-dien (70% RBA for the Progesteron receptors), my lumps under my nipples got big, I taken off the SD and my nipples got better...
When you stop your SD cycle and start post cycle therapy with tamoxy, the superdrol stay in your system for long than a week (I think), take nolva and you up regolate the progesteron receptors...
I've a good recovery after SD cycles when I run 2 weeks with DHT based drugs like mestanolone or m5aa and after take the nolva when SD falls out from your body...
With that said what are ur thoughts on some clones actually being tainted with anadrol?
 
UNCfan1

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Here's my thoughts on where this might have originated-

1. I think superdrol, while not inherently estrogenic, has the distinct ability to make any other compounds become that way.
2. I think it has a longer half-life than assumed.
3. I think many people ran it with only an AI for post cycle therapy.
4. I think people may have added items in PCT that may have contributed to gyno while the SD was still active(i.e. DHEA and Long Jack).
Great points there Sol.
 
antodrol

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With that said what are ur thoughts on some clones actually being tainted with anadrol?
I dunno...with the oxodrol12 my lumps got bigger in the first run, in the second run stack with mdien I've had also sore nipples...My next run will be wit methyl drol by SNS.....stay tuned
With the designer roids you can take only the other's experiences...no pubmed search
 
UNCfan1

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LOL!

Yeah superdrol has pretty mysterious sides, I always wanted to try it, but I chicken out at the end. :eek:

It's the thought of unpredictable delayed gyno that really scares me... :sad:
I hear that. I haven't ran it for a straight cycle but when I pulsed it I didn't have any problems whatsoever. I ran the AX version and plan to run it again soon.

Possible reasons for the gyno and delayed gyno...

Possibilty that it could tainted with Anadrol or acts the same as Anadrol on ER's.

Bad post cycle therapy!

Possibility of making other compounds estrogenic.

Or course some users could have had issues with gyno before hand causes it to flare up.

Other compounds added to PCT adding to the chance of getting gyno.

Possible longer half life than assumed.
 
nycste

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Here's my thoughts on where this might have originated-

1. I think superdrol, while not inherently estrogenic, has the distinct ability to make any other compounds become that way.
2. I think it has a longer half-life than assumed.
3. I think many people ran it with only an AI for post cycle therapy.
4. I think people may have added items in PCT that may have contributed to gyno while the SD was still active(i.e. DHEA and Long Jack).
ok i know many test boosters or of the sort dont include

long jack or dhea

but can you explain more on this tangent perhaps?
 
slow-mun

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ok i know many test boosters or of the sort dont include

long jack or dhea

but can you explain more on this tangent perhaps?
Its mostly just a hunch, but I figured there are probably a few out there that tried to counter the shutdown caused by superdrol with an OTC Test Booster. Most of these products are just kitchen sink products with every aphrodisiac available thrown into them at various dosages. My feelings about Long Jack are because it has been shown to exhibit androgenic side effects in male rats. Here's a couple of studies-

Exp Anim. 2000 Jan;49(1):35-8. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) on the initiation of sexual performance of inexperienced castrated male rats. Ang HH, Cheang HS, Yusof AP.

Arch Pharm Res. 2001 Oct;24(5):437-40. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Ang HH, Cheang HS.
The DHEA inclusion was because I have heard of people stacking DHEA with SD in hopes at countering the libido effects as well(either on cycle or in post cycle therapy, not including Nolvadex). I'm aware that not everyone suffers from libido woes while on SD, but the majority of users seem to have that problem. Anyhow, if SD remains active and has the ability to potentiate other agents, then that may explain why a few user's developed gyno trouble either while on, during, or after PCT.
 

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I am on the 3rd week for Cel M-drol and its pretty good stuff
anything i have notice was VERY VERY little hair lose? I have very high test levels as it is and don't ever lose hair when brushed or showering but lost very little and gyno is none but pumps in the back some but i like them :D
taurine get ride of it completely
i have had massive str increase prolly around 20+ lbs on everything and i am getting ripped on a lean bulk well kinda bulk more of a leaning
i have gained 8 lbs all dry....about 10 + people in my gym ask me if i was on roids i laughed and said some day i will be
i don't think M-drol is a very save bet seeing as its random and not to much is known
it was my first cycle i am still on it right now just took 20mg one second ago and going to the gym now
for my 2nd cycle i am going with a test Injection and Dbol to start it off
stuff that has been around longer and more used and it seems you get better gains + less sides
so go Pin go hard go Strong Start young :D
I still think lots of people don't eat right and thats there problems or your genes are bad. I wouldn't be able to lift if i didn't see results every time i wake up
 
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