Pros and Cons of using ECA with PH's

[bigbadboss101]

Ok, I read people saying they could use ECA during their cycle.  The reason would be to combat lethargy.  On the other hand, ECA suppress appetite, while ph usually could increase appetite.  Therefore, they offset each other.  What are the other pro's and con's of using ECA during cycle?  PH's affects BP, and ECA would not help.  Also, limpiness could get worst!?  Intensity will be greatly increase I agree.

[Kay]

Originally posted by bigbadboss101
Ok, I read people saying they could use ECA during their cycle.  The reason would be to combat lethargy.  On the other hand, ECA suppress appetite, while ph usually could increase appetite.  Therefore, they offset each other.  What are the other pro's and con's of using ECA during cycle?  PH's affects BP, and ECA would not help.  Also, limpiness could get worst!?  Intensity will be greatly increase I agree.

Most ECA contain diuretics, which inhibit water gains while using PH's.. this could be a bad and a good thing.

Increased water retention, increases overall muscle CSA, which increases strength and thus greater gains.
also, water weight increases protein synthesis and promotes an anabolic environment.

On the other hand, water weight doesnt look good, makes you look soft

[Blacksmith]

Originally posted by bigbadboss101
ECA suppress appetite, while ph usually could increase appetite. Therefore, they offset each other

There is evidence that ECA stacks preserve lean muscle,
while burning fat. Your argument is too simplistic.

[ManBeast]

All I know is that after being on an ECA (heavy dosing) while on my last cycle, I'll stick to caffine only on the next one, I'm pretty sure the appetite suppresant part of the ECA dosen't help at all, I was eating a LOT but not a LOT if that makes any sense... Plus Curt's gains went up noticably when he dropped the ECA from his last cycle.

ManBeast

[pogue]

If you're cutting, it makes sense to use an eca while on PHs. But if you're bulking, the only time I would take an eca is preworkout or when you're really tired and need to do something, even then you probably want to take half a dose.

[sage]

Originally posted by pogue
But if you're bulking, the only time I would take an eca is preworkout or when you're really tired and need to do something, even then you probably want to take half a dose.

this is how ive used mine over the years (on or off cycle) only use 1-2 capsules out of the 4 daily recommended for fat loss prior to working out and gives me great amounts energy (sometimes, with the ph added in, too much energy....be in the gym for 2.5 hours ) that is my take on eca/thermogenics along with your ph use. whether looking for lean gains or esp. bulk gains, use at most half the recommended dosage, only prior to working out to give you the extra ummmpphhh!! during your workout. and i dont take em on off days or cardio days either.