Need your advice on this cycle.

[andros]

Need your advice on this cycle. (CYCLE FINISHED - see results)

I'm 191 pounds, bf around 10%, 32yrs, 5'9'' height. I've done 2x test/tren in the past, 2xh50, 1xsuperdrol and 1xm1t.

Calories will be run at maintenance level. 40/40/20 cal split. I wanna use this stack for cutting. How does it sound?

weeks 1-12.......250 mg test E a week
weeks 1-12........400 mg eq a week
weeks 8-12....... 25-50 mg winny ed
weeks 1-12.......10 mg nolva ed
weeks 1-12.......HCG 375iu eod

post cycle therapy will be clomid, nolva, igf1lr3, lean xtreme, dhea and paravol.

 

[pistonpump]

sounds pretty low on the doses of test and eq for someone with that exper. and almost 200lb. If the low doses work for you then thats all good.

 

[andros]

sounds pretty low on the doses of test and eq for someone with that exper. and almost 200lb. If the low doses work for you then thats all good.

Thanx pump! What doses would you recommend for me?

 

[PumpingIron]

kick test up to 500 and EQ up to atleast 600...

 

[PumpingIron]

also, you're gonna wanna cut the eq a week shorter than the test, to let the longer ester clear.

 

[andros]

also, you're gonna wanna cut the eq a week shorter than the test, to let the longer ester clear.

right on, for someone concerned with loss of libido on this cycle will the test of 500 be enough you think?

 

[onelife]

500 will be enough, in my opinion eq is pointless in such a short cycle. It just takes too long to fully kick in from my experience and friends.

 

[andros]

Been tweaking a bit and reading a bit more so this is what i have come up with:

weeks 1-12.......500 mg test E a week
weeks 1-2........700mg eq a week
weeks 3-11........500 mg eq a week
weeks 8-12....... 40 mg winny ed
weeks 1-12.......10 mg nolva ed

How about that?

 

[PumpingIron]

why 40mgs of winny?

but normally people would recommend running EQ for atleast 12 weeks, if not even longer. The kickstart is a little week too. plus you really want to running it at 600mgs/week or higher.

i'm assuming you already have your gear, but i would recommend getting a little more and run it like this:

1-16 Test E 500mg EW
1-15 EQ 600mg+ EW
13-18 Winny 50mg ED

and I'd opt for an AI instead of a SERM...I take it you are gyno prone?

 

[onelife]

why 40mgs of winny?

but normally people would recommend running EQ for atleast 12 weeks, if not even longer. The kickstart is a little week too. plus you really want to running it at 600mgs/week or higher.

i'm assuming you already have your gear, but i would recommend getting a little more and run it like this:

1-16 Test E 500mg EW
1-15 EQ 600mg+ EW
13-18 Winny 50mg ED

and I'd opt for an AI instead of a SERM...I take it you are gyno prone?

I agree with extending the cycle length if you are totally set on running eq. If not you could always low dose deca and end it several weeks short of your test. Just because deca is known for major weight gain does not mean it has to be used in this manner. I have seen many cycles ran with deca on a lean bulking diet with results that have been practically zero fat gain. If you know how to diet, which I assume you do since you are using these compounds, than it should be no problem. :dl:

 

[pistonpump]

he probably has 40mg winny tabs/caps....

I think the EQ should be run longer but you could get away with 12 weeks although it would be somewhat of a waste as youd have on like 5-6 full weeks of EQ. 15 weeks is a good standard run for EQ but some people dont want to be on that long. Since you have HCG it wont be so much a problem.

I dont think you neccassrily have to cut the EQ a week prior to the Test if you plan on running an oral to fill the gaps as the ester clears. For instance you gave an example of 1-12 Test E and 8-12 winny.......you would be better off 10-14 with the winny because the test will be in your system still for about 2 weeks after your last shot. EQ is like 3 weeks to clear. so if you cut the EQ same time as the Test (12 week mark) then you would run the winny up to week 15 as you wait your 3 weeks for the EQ to clear. Get it?

 

[onelife]

i agree with you piston pump. But i have never heard of anyone being shut down hard from not kicking eq out early..but I guess its better to be safe than sorry! and yes hcg is a must at that length; and obviously igf would be great to throw into the mix at the end.. but i guess thats for any cycle hehe

 

[PumpingIron]

You CAN get away without HCG...

PP, I don't like the idea of jumping into PCT before you've given atleast 3 weeks for EQ to clear, and I also don't like the idea of starting PCT longer than 2 weeks after your last shot of Test Enan.

 

[andros]

he probably has 40mg winny tabs/caps....

I think the EQ should be run longer but you could get away with 12 weeks although it would be somewhat of a waste as youd have on like 5-6 full weeks of EQ. 15 weeks is a good standard run for EQ but some people dont want to be on that long. Since you have HCG it wont be so much a problem.

I dont think you neccassrily have to cut the EQ a week prior to the Test if you plan on running an oral to fill the gaps as the ester clears. For instance you gave an example of 1-12 Test E and 8-12 winny.......you would be better off 10-14 with the winny because the test will be in your system still for about 2 weeks after your last shot. EQ is like 3 weeks to clear. so if you cut the EQ same time as the Test (12 week mark) then you would run the winny up to week 15 as you wait your 3 weeks for the EQ to clear. Get it?

Is this what you mean then:
weeks 1-12.......500 mg test E a week
weeks 1-12........500 mg eq a week
weeks 10-14....... 40 mg winny ed
weeks 1-12.......10 mg nolva ed

I waan keep the cycle short-ish to not get shoutdown TOOOOO hard. I really appreciate you help here. I got the test/tren bizz down but these new compounds i'm a bit unfamiliar with in terms of durations and doses. So thanx again manggg

 

[pistonpump]

You CAN get away without HCG...

PP, I don't like the idea of jumping into post cycle therapy before you've given atleast 3 weeks for EQ to clear, and I also don't like the idea of starting PCT longer than 2 weeks after your last shot of Test Enan.

you guys miss read my post. I dont agree with that either. You gotta wait for the ester to clear. Reread :trout:

 

[pistonpump]

Is this what you mean then:
weeks 1-12.......500 mg test E a week
weeks 1-12........500 mg eq a week
weeks 10-14....... 40 mg winny ed
weeks 1-12.......10 mg nolva ed

I waan keep the cycle short-ish to not get shoutdown TOOOOO hard. I really appreciate you help here. I got the test/tren bizz down but these new compounds i'm a bit unfamiliar with in terms of durations and doses. So thanx again manggg

the winny would be taken til week 15, PCT start week 16. (because the 3 weeks for EQ)

The shutdown in terms of length is changed when you are using HCG on cycle.

im still debating on SERM or AI on cycle i know i started with AI but ended up on SERM because the AI wasnt enough to stop gyno symptoms. Some will say the SERM use long term like that is not good but some will also say that the SERM is preferred because it keeps estrogen circulating and helps with lipids over an AI that will take out the benefiets of estrogen and usually hurt lipids(adex).

 

[andros]

the winny would be taken til week 15, post cycle therapy start week 16. (because the 3 weeks for EQ)

The shutdown in terms of length is changed when you are using HCG on cycle.

im still debating on SERM or AI on cycle i know i started with AI but ended up on SERM because the AI wasnt enough to stop gyno symptoms. Some will say the SERM use long term like that is not good but some will also say that the SERM is preferred because it keeps estrogen circulating and helps with lipids over an AI that will take out the benefiets of estrogen and usually hurt lipids(adex).

weeks 1-12.......500 mg test E a week
weeks 1-12.......500 mg eq a week
weeks 11-15.....50 mg winny ed
weeks 1-12.......10 mg nolva ed
week 16............pct

So doing it like this, do you think the libido will suffer from the winny or is there still enough test juice left in the system to help prevent a soft dong? haha

a-dex wasn't enough on my last test/tren cycle so i switched to nolva.

 

[PumpingIron]

Why don't you just run test through week 13?

 

[pistonpump]

test into week 13 would be better and you could also end the last two weeks with test prop.

winny shouldnt give you problems with libido, maybe increase it.

 

[andros]

Here is what i'm gonna do then =) I'll keep it simple and leave out the prop. You rock, thanx dudes!!!

weeks 1-13.......500 mg test E a week
weeks 1-12.......500 mg eq a week
weeks 11-15.....50 mg winny ed
weeks 1-12.......10 mg nolva ed
weeks 16-22............post cycle therapy

post cycle therapy will be clomid, nolva, igf1lr3, lean xtreme, dhea and paravol.

I'll keep you guys posted on what happens =)

Do you think this one would be harsher or milder on your libido than test/tren for 12 weeks? Just curious...

 

[PumpingIron]

By the 5th week you'll be wanting to hump everything...

 

[onelife]

in my opinion it will be easier on you than a cycle involving tren... tren shuts you down very hard

i like the addition of igf, should make recovery very easy for sure... keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[pistonpump]

technically if you are using the nolva to prevent gyno you should be taking it the whole way thru.

 

[andros]

Was planning to run nolva all the way thru. How about running winny 10-15 instead of 11-15? That wouldn't hurt would it? Or maybe even 9-15?

 

[PumpingIron]

6 weeks on winny is normal...

 

[andros]

6 weeks on winny is normal...

Winny is expensive so i was wondering if i could replace it with Prostanozol since i got access to an old batch???

sweet! What would your post cycle therapy regimen look like for the above stack? Just curious to see how you guys roll...

 

[PumpingIron]

PCT is very subjective...13 weeks on test, I would probably go with either 2 weeks of clomid into 4 weeks of nolva, or torem for 5 weeks.

Prostanazol doesn't compare to winny. Dosages that you need to use are very high (upwards of 300mgs+)...others might think differently and I have no experience with winny, so I am talking above myself.

 

[pistonpump]

i dont use dhea and you dont have dosing for the SERMs....

 

[onelife]

well i personally love running hcg even on 12 weekers.. i just low dose it the last couple weeks.. seems to bring me back like no other; love igf during pct also.. your pct looks good though imo!

 

[PumpingIron]

well i personally love running hcg even on 12 weekers.. i just low dose it the last couple weeks.. seems to bring me back like no other; love igf during post cycle therapy also.. your post cycle therapy looks good though imo!

dont get me wrong, it's definitely a smart move.

 

[onelife]

oh not directing that towards you at all PI... just commenting on andros question of what we personally like to use for pct. and although there was definitely some good advice given to you in this thread andros..after your cycle you may have different ideas of how long you want to use a substance for next time, or a change in your pct or whatever.. a lot of this stuff has just been compounded through the years from person to person and eventually figuring out what works the best for you is a very important piece of the puzzle!

 

[pistonpump]

yup. As ive become more experienced ive found that experimenting so to speak with your cycles is the way to go, providing you do it intelligently and with knowledge. I did a few things against the grain last cycle just so that i can get the experience and to see what really works for me. When i was on 18 weeks for example i had a hard time recovering so now i know that i will never do that again without a better approach and if that doesnt work then ill know long cycles are truly not for me. If we cycled the same way everytime and just changed the compound we wouldnt be learning anything.

 

[andros]

I agree, some people run clomid WITH nolva in the beginning of the pct and some run clomid THEN nolva and some people doesn't even botehr with clomid at all. I was just curious what you guys typically do.

 

[pistonpump]

well in that case i dont typically do anything lol.

 

[andros]

Hcg

So thanx veryone for going over this cycle with me, it looks to be a solid stack.

Would it be ok to un HCG like this?
weeks 2-15.......350 IU HCG 2x pr week

weeks 1-13.......500 mg test E a week
weeks 1-12.......500 mg eq a week
weeks 9-15.......8 tabs prostanozol ed
weeks 1-12.......10 mg nolva ed
weeks 16-22...... PCT: clomid, nolva, igf1lr3, lean xtreme and paravol.

 

[pistonpump]

sounds like a good cycle.

 

[andros]

sounds like a good cycle.

Would it be ok to un HCG like this?
weeks 2-15.......350 IU HCG 2x pr week

 

[pistonpump]

Would it be ok to un HCG like this?
weeks 2-15.......350 IU HCG 2x pr week

thats fine. i see nothin utterly wrong with that.

 

[andros]

thats fine. i see nothin utterly wrong with that.

I've done this in the past on 2 test/tren cycles (2 and 3 months) and i still had a bit of shrinkage on cycle. The question is then if it would totally prevent shrinkage or just cause total shutdown. What would you do?

 

[pistonpump]

I've done this in the past on 2 test/tren cycles (2 and 3 months) and i still had a bit of shrinkage on cycle. The question is then if it would totally prevent shrinkage or just cause total shutdown. What would you do?

it should lessen shrinkage and keep the testes knowing how to function so when you come off they will be ahead of the game. Ive never used HCG but based off what others say 250-500iu every 3 days is the way too go. I suppose you could do cycles of hcg while on. for instance, 3 weeks then 1 or 2 off then 3 weeks or whatever but probably better to use straight thru.

 

[PumpingIron]

swales protocol for HCg is 250iu's every Saterday and Sunday...

 

[andros]

swales protocol for HCg is 250iu's every Saterday and Sunday...

2 days in a row?

 

[PumpingIron]

2 days in a row?

i don't know?...

did someone slip an extra day in between the two?

 

[pistonpump]

i always thought it was e3d... idk. check the male anti aging forum or run a search for more info.

 

[PumpingIron]

There are a few different methods.

 

[andros]

How would you feel if I added epistane 30mg ED for the first 6 weeks of the above cycle? Wouldn't it be kinda naaaiiizzzeee?

 

[andros]

How would you feel if I added epistane 30mg ED for the first 6 weeks of the above cycle? Wouldn't it be kinda naaaiiizzzeee?

Anyone?

 

[pistonpump]

have you ran epi before and what is the goal of the cycle?

 

[andros]

have you ran epi before and what is the goal of the cycle?

not done epi before, no, but halodrol and superdrol and test/tren twice. Epi sounds very promising and it easier on teh libido than superdrol and still a dry compound.

I wanna try to keep calories at maintenance and go for a lean bulk and hopefully lose some fat.

 

[pistonpump]

not done epi before, no, but halodrol and superdrol and test/tren twice. Epi sounds very promising and it easier on teh libido than superdrol and still a dry compound.

I wanna try to keep calories at maintenance and go for a lean bulk and hopefully lose some fat.

Epi is a good choice then.