3 Months Post SD CYCLE Blood Test

[MashedPotato]

Hi Guys (hope this is the right place)

Just received my 3 months post SuperDrol Cycle bloodwork.

Had complete liver, kidney, lipd and CBC counts done.
(did not include test count as it has been running fine, this test was to ensure complete "homeostasis" counts had returned to normal)

Cycle was 3 weeks 20 MG daily cycle of original DS Superdrol.
Ran usual support supps with cycle (liver,lip,bp support) as well as 2 months Milk Thistle post cycle and plenty of fish oil.

Results:

WBC returned to normal (was in 10.00 -13.00 range during cycle - any thoughts?

RBC & Hemoglobin returned to normal (raised during cycle)

Liver Function now normal! (all elevated immediately post cycle)

Creatinine is a little high (due to dehydration?)

Cholestrol is fine again. (raised during a post cycle)

HDL - LOW BASELINE (was in single digits 4-9 immediately post/during cycle!)
LDL - RAISED (129 immediately post cycle)



Just thought id let you all know the results. Shows just how long these compounds can affect the system. Need to work a little more on the HDL and LDL (was about to start a pulsing cycle but was waiting on results first, so now im going to take LIFE SUPPORT for a few months, see if that helps the values).

Hope this helps show those of you who feel "fine" post cycle but didnt use any protection/support supps how bad these compounds mess with the system. I was disciplined with my supplement regime and my system is still a little out of whack.

Recommend everyone gets a blood test (and no i dont have insurance (uninsurable ) but feel that my health is worth the $130 of my own money for these tests).

If your going to do the cycle, having at least 1 blood test SHOULD NOT BE OPTIONAL.

:afro:

 

[Movin_weight]

good post... glad after 3 months everythings starting to look pretty good, definately puts emphasis on the need to take some solid time off in between cycles

 

[StellaArtois]

thumbs up on preparation and pct

 

[MashedPotato]

Thanks Guys.

Have no family history of High cholestrol, liver problems, kidney problems etc... diet is in check also so these results are all SD based results.

Dr wasn't concerned though and im convinced ill be able to get my results back to norm in the next few weeks. Life Support from AI looks promising.

I did debate on whether i should take Red Rice Yeast Extract, but I couldnt really find any any conculsive evidence on its effects on the liver (conflicting reports on causing liver stress).

Seeing as my liver was already working overtime, i left that out, which might have improved the Lipid values quicker.

 

[Movin_weight]

did you use torem or nolva for PCT? heard that torem is supposed to have a better effect lipid recovery

 

[Travis]

Thanks for the bloodwork. You could try adding in some SAMe and Coq10 to speed up recovery.

 

[MashedPotato]

did you use torem or nolva for post cycle therapy? heard that torem is supposed to have a better effect lipid recovery

I actually used nolva this time, but may try torem on my pulse cycle once things have evened out.

Thanks also for the suggestions.
Im looking at this stack for recovery:

Red Rice Yeast Extract (possibly)
LIFE SUPPORT by AI (half dosages)
Salmon Oil
CoQ10
SaMe (possibly)


Ill be interested to see the results 1 month from now (any ideas how long it takes to see Lipid Changes - whish there was a alternatve version of SD that gave you complete oposite lipid profiles in the same short period :head:

 

[Travis]

There are actually drugs that would improve your lipid profile. I dont know much about them however it is most likely best to return to homeostasis naturally. Check out this thread though:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/48057-ldl-hdl-levels.html

Policosanol is brought up in that thread. I am starting to look into it a little more but its a relatively cheap supplement and worth a shot.

Also, Niacin could be added to your "recovery" stack. Your liver values looked fine but you may still want to steer away from the time released versions. I guess they are more liver toxic or something.

Policosanol (90 caps) By NOW Foods

 

[yeahright]

Life Support has RYR in it...so be careful not to double dose yourself.

 

[StellaArtois]

anabolic innovations cycle support is a great all in one liver support powder, has everything you need.

im doing sd pulse right now 3x a week for 4 weeks 10-20mg using that and torem for pct, with some ai on off days

 

[MashedPotato]

Life Support has RYR in it...so be careful not to double dose yourself.

yeah your right. I hadnt actually read the entire label until you mentioned it. :ntome:

Im curious though guys, once i get the Lipids back to "prior cycle baseline", and stop the supps (although continuing on fish oil), is there any chance the lipid values will climb up again? (without being on a cycle)

I was actually trying to find out whether diet alone could cause raised lipid values (i.e if i was to eat mcdonalds every day) whether would cause high values in everyone. Or is it purely genetics here ? :burger: (not that i eat mcdonalds every day this is purely a "hypothetical" question....no really lol


I'll be taking another Lipid test 3-4 weeks from now (costs less and the others tests are not necessary) see how its working out. Ill also be sure to post my blood results if i decide to do a short 4 week pulsing cycle in November/December, see if DR.Ds hypothesis is correct about reduced heptaoxicity and Lipid values.

 

[StellaArtois]

yeah your right. I hadnt actually read the entire label until you mentioned it. :ntome:

Im curious though guys, once i get the Lipids back to "prior cycle baseline", and stop the supps (although continuing on fish oil), is there any chance the lipid values will climb up again? (without being on a cycle)

I was actually trying to find out whether diet alone could cause raised lipid values (i.e if i was to eat mcdonalds every day) whether would cause high values in everyone. Or is it purely genetics here ? :burger: (not that i eat mcdonalds every day this is purely a "hypothetical" question....no really lol


I'll be taking another Lipid test 3-4 weeks from now (costs less and the others tests are not necessary) see how its working out. Ill also be sure to post my blood results if i decide to do a short 4 week pulsing cycle in November/December, see if DR.Ds hypothesis is correct about reduced heptaoxicity and Lipid values.

the only thing you can do is try and see and report, the claims are that pulsing is easier on lipids, and rightly so. if you take less and less often, the only sensible thing to think is that it would be less harsh on your liver, however without test for pulsing cycle who knows.

good luck

 

[MashedPotato]

the only thing you can do is try and see and report, the claims are that pulsing is easier on lipids, and rightly so. if you take less and less often, the only sensible thing to think is that it would be less harsh on your liver, however without test for pulsing cycle who knows.

good luck

Ill be sure to give you guys complete blood work.

Just need to work on tweaking the lipid levels a little more first...

 

[yeahright]

yeah your right. I hadnt actually read the entire label until you mentioned it. :ntome:

Im curious though guys, once i get the Lipids back to "prior cycle baseline", and stop the supps (although continuing on fish oil), is there any chance the lipid values will climb up again? (without being on a cycle)

I was actually trying to find out whether diet alone could cause raised lipid values (i.e if i was to eat mcdonalds every day) whether would cause high values in everyone. Or is it purely genetics here ? :burger: (not that i eat mcdonalds every day this is purely a "hypothetical" question....no really lol


I'll be taking another Lipid test 3-4 weeks from now (costs less and the others tests are not necessary) see how its working out. Ill also be sure to post my blood results if i decide to do a short 4 week pulsing cycle in November/December, see if DR.Ds hypothesis is correct about reduced heptaoxicity and Lipid values.

Lipid levels are a combination of diet and genetics. So yeah, you eat McDonalds every day and your cho9lesterol is likely to tank (HDL down, LDL up). Some people have high cholesterol no matter their diet. Some people have healthy cholesterol despite their diet.....but most people have to eat healthy.

 

[CROWLER]

There are actually drugs that would improve your lipid profile. I dont know much about them however it is most likely best to return to homeostasis naturally. Check out this thread though:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/48057-ldl-hdl-levels.html

Policosanol is brought up in that thread. I am starting to look into it a little more but its a relatively cheap supplement and worth a shot.

Also, Niacin could be added to your "recovery" stack. Your liver values looked fine but you may still want to steer away from the time released versions. I guess they are more liver toxic or something.

Policosanol (90 caps) By NOW Foods

Life Support and Cycle Support have Policosanol in them.


CROWLER

 

[AM07]

MashedPotato, why are you uninsurable?

 

[phrost]

You never got your hormone levels checked?

 

[jonny21]

Creatinine is a little high (due to dehydration?)

Rest of labs not indicative of dehydration. If you worked out pretty extremely the night before that could impact it. What'd your physician say? If you haven't seen one yet, plan to. Renal insufficiency is not something you want to drag your feet on.

 

[Trauma1]

Rest of labs not indicative of dehydration. If you worked out pretty extremely the night before that could impact it. What'd your physician say? If you haven't seen one yet, plan to. Renal insufficiency is not something you want to drag your feet on.

That is not necessarily true. He very well may be mildly dehydrated and i have seen that show up solely as a mildly elevated creatinine. A classic dehydration will show altered electrolytes and an elevated bun/creatinine, however that does not apply to everyone as many people are unique in their presentation.

Many other external factors may be effecting his creatinine. For example creatine supplementation will certainly alter baseline creatinine in some individuals. I agree that renal insufficiency is nothing to joke about and needs to be further evaluated, however i wouldn't be overly worried at this point by any means. Renal insufficiency in a young healthy individual is most commonly due to dehydration or outside supplementation/medication. He needs to adequately hydrate himself and stop taking creatine if he is. I'd get the bun/creatinine rechecked in 2-3 weeks and take it from there.

 

[jonny21]

That is not necessarily true. He very well may be mildly dehydrated and i have seen that show up solely as a mildly elevated creatinine. A classic dehydration will show altered electrolytes and an elevated bun/creatinine, however that does not apply to everyone as many people are unique in their presentation.

Many other external factors may be effecting his creatinine. For example creatine supplementation will certainly alter baseline creatinine in some individuals. I agree that renal insufficiency is nothing to joke about and needs to be further evaluated, however i wouldn't be overly worried at this point by any means. Renal insufficiency in a young healthy individual is most commonly due to dehydration or outside supplementation/medication. He needs to adequately hydrate himself and stop taking creatine if he is. I'd get the bun/creatinine rechecked in 2-3 weeks and take it from there.

What's not true about my statment? what other labs are indicative of dehydration?

Creatine not included in his supplement list. I have not seen dehydration present with elevated creatinine only. Mild renal insufficiency, yes. Where I work though, GFR is standard. Nothing else, including CBC is indicative of dehydration.

Not diagnosing. Just stating that he needs to look into it. who knows? He might have neglected to add his creatine supplementation to his list. Nevertheless, figure out your GFR here: http://www.davita.com/gfr_calculator/index.cfm

BTW, I already did. If you are not supplementing with creatine and did not have an extreme workout the night before your labs were drawn please follow up.

 

[Trauma1]

What's not true about my statment? what other labs are indicative of dehydration?

Creatine not included in his supplement list. I have not seen dehydration present with elevated creatinine only. Mild renal insufficiency, yes. Where I work though, GFR is standard. Nothing else, including CBC is indicative of dehydration.

Not diagnosing. Just stating that he needs to look into it. who knows? He might have neglected to add his creatine supplementation to his list. Nevertheless, figure out your GFR here: http://www.davita.com/gfr_calculator/index.cfm

BTW, I already did. If you are not supplementing with creatine and did not have an extreme workout the night before your labs were drawn please follow up.

Jonny I said it was not necessarily true. In a young and healthy individual you often won't see acute changes in lab tests typical of dehydration unless it's severe enough. The human body is pretty resilient and compensates quite well before failing, so just because a person doesn't have lab results that indicate dehydration doesn't mean it isn't there. I've worked in emergency medicine for over 7 years and i've seen an elevated creatinine with a normal bun many times that was due to dehydration.


Renal insufficiency has many causes in itself the most common being pre-renal or fluid volume deficit. People don't always have typical symptoms/lab results of a given medical condition. Without a physical exam and medical history to correlate the diagnostic tests his results are completely inconclusive at this point. I agree that GFR is a much better indicator of actual renal function. While an elevated HCT is not completely diagnostic and indicative of dehydration, it is most definately elevated in a moderate to severe dehydration in the majority of people. It takes a while for a HCT to show a decrease in acute blood loss, or to show an increase in moderate/severe dehydration.


Anyway, I didn't mean that you were wrong by any means, just that not every presentation is typical either diagnostic or physical for a given medical problem. You gave good advice that he does need to follow up on this and repeat a bun/creatinine. He may have very well not told us that he's using creatine. If it's elevated in his repeat, I suspect the next step would most likely be bi-lat renal ultrasound to eval kidney function, but i think that's jumping the gun at this point.

 

[jonny21]

...He may have very well not told us that he's using creatine. If it's elevated in his repeat, I suspect the next step would most likely be bi-lat renal ultrasound to eval kidney function, but i think that's jumping the gun at this point.

Sorry if I came off adverserial, not my intention.

We all have different experiences and opinons, the main point s/b that follow up is warranted.

 

[Trauma1]

Sorry if I came off adverserial, not my intention.

We all have different experiences and opinons, the main point s/b that follow up is warranted.

Nah not at all, i hope i didn't b/c it wasn't my intention either :cheers: . Exactly follow up is definately warranted to be on the safe side.

 

[MashedPotato]

Hey guys, sorry havent responded (been nursing my poor hand).


Ok so im un-insurable as i had a Bone Marrow Transplant when i was 16 (6 hrs ago) and insurance companies run a mile when they see me coming (funny thing is no test you can do can proove i ever had anything wrong, my liver, spleen, kidneys, blood work etc is 100% normal....only thing is i have fair hair lol.)

So thats why i cant be insured.

Secondly i had a bunch of blood tests in hospital for my hand injury (which still looks infect btw....) and creatine was normal.

I was also dehydrated as i remember drinking a entire bottle of Gatorade after coming out of the blood test.

Thirdly i didnt do hormone tests as i know they were fine from a blood test result 1 week earlier. This was for an all round organ/blood work test.

 

[AM07]

Damn, that's some bull****. You should have access to healthcare.

I never knew that an insurance company could turn you down for something like that. I just thought the rates would be much higher.

 

[MashedPotato]

oh and guys...yes i was on creatine....the Kre-Akylin stuff (grammar)... sorry for not mentioning BTW....didnt realize it was causing you guys restless nights worrying about it....:think: