Superdrol/4-AD/1,4-andro -- synergistic stack?

[ImJ2x]

This would be a pulse cycle -- either 2on/5off, or 3on/4off, for as long as possible before a break is needed. [I'm wondering if the 2on/5off (or maybe even the 3on/4off) could be run indefinitely, without needing a break.]

The components:
Superdrol (original Designer Supps Superdrol) @ 20mg/day
4-AD (real 4-androstenediol, not the new AMS stuff) @ 400mg/day
1,4-andro @ 400mg/day

The reasoning:
I'm hoping for a good "synergistic" stack, with superdrol as the main mass-building component. The other 2 components are meant to complement the superdrol: 4-AD to combat the lethargy and sustain libido (and possibly help with lipids?); and 1,4-andro to increase appetite (feeding the gains). [And DrD says 1,4-andro is a decent AI, which should handle any aromitization of the testosterone to which 4-AD converts.]
The dosing of the 4-AD and the 1,4-andro may seem low, but remember that they are not really included for mass-building (that's superdrol's job), but more for their other benefits (hence, the "synergy"). Furthermore, although the individual doses may seem low, when you add them all up, the total "stack" should be sufficiently dosed (especially for a smaller guy like me -- 5'6" 140lbs).
I'm currently lining up my support supps (for liver, lipid, HPTA, etc).
Any suggestions regarding any part of this proposal will be appreciated (especially for the support supps). Thanks.

 

[B5150]

Both the 4ad and 1,4 andro are poor choices for a pulse. You could run them throughout for 6 or 8 weeks at a higher dose and pulse the superdrol.

1,4 andro an AI? It aromatizes itself on its own to a small degree.

 

[slow-mun]

This would be a pulse cycle -- either 2on/5off, or 3on/4off, for as long as possible before a break is needed. [I'm wondering if the 2on/5off (or maybe even the 3on/4off) could be run indefinitely, without needing a break.]

The components:
Superdrol (original Designer Supps Superdrol) @ 20mg/day
4-AD (real 4-androstenediol, not the new AMS stuff) @ 400mg/day
1,4-andro @ 400mg/day

The reasoning:
I'm hoping for a good "synergistic" stack, with superdrol as the main mass-building component. The other 2 components are meant to complement the superdrol: 4-AD to combat the lethargy and sustain libido (and possibly help with lipids?); and 1,4-andro to increase appetite (feeding the gains). [And DrD says 1,4-andro is a decent AI, which should handle any aromitization of the testosterone to which 4-AD converts.]
The dosing of the 4-AD and the 1,4-andro may seem low, but remember that they are not really included for mass-building (that's superdrol's job), but more for their other benefits (hence, the "synergy"). Furthermore, although the individual doses may seem low, when you add them all up, the total "stack" should be sufficiently dosed (especially for a smaller guy like me -- 5'6" 140lbs).
I'm currently lining up my support supps (for liver, lipid, HPTA, etc).
Any suggestions regarding any part of this proposal will be appreciated (especially for the support supps). Thanks.

Run both the 4-AD and the 1,4AD everyday(6-8 weeks) and simply pulse the superdrol. Those two products are not recommended for pulsing and would be a waste IMO. BTW, the dosages for both 4-AD and 1,4AD seem to be very low. You want to run the 4-AD higher than the 1,4AD. Something like this-

Everyday 4-AD 800-1200mg/1,4AD 400-800mg

 

[ImJ2x]

1,4 andro an AI? It aromatizes itself on its own to a small degree.

Yeah -- the characterization of 1,4-andro that DrD gave me seemed quite different than what I'd always believed.

 

[ImJ2x]

Run both the 4-AD and the 1,4AD everyday(6-8 weeks) and simply pulse the superdrol. Those two products are not recommended for pulsing and would be a waste IMO. BTW, the dosages for both 4-AD and 1,4AD seem to be very low. You want to run the 4-AD higher than the 1,4AD. Something like this-

Everyday 4-AD 800-1200mg/1,4AD 400-800mg

You and B5150 are saying the same thing, so let me explain my thinking.
Superdrol can be (and often is) pulsed solo, and effectively. So anything I add to the stack is "gravy, baby." So I'm just adding the 4-AD and 1,4-andro for the potential benefits other than mass gains. (Superdrol alone should be sufficient for mass.)
And this is a far cheaper cycle than the everyday, high-dose cycle you guys recommend.
Does that make sense? Or would you suggest I eliminate the 4-AD and the 1,4-andro altogether and just run a basic Superdrol pulse? (boring, lol)

 

[Werewolf]

Yeah -- the characterization of 1,4-andro that DrD gave me seemed quite different than what I'd always believed.

It actually more like a SERM effect than AI. It produces a half strength estrogen that attaches to estrogen receptor there by blocking full strength estrogen from attaching. It can lower overall bloat and gyno effects.

 

[slow-mun]

You and B5150 are saying the same thing, so let me explain my thinking.
Superdrol can be (and often is) pulsed solo, and effectively. So anything I add to the pulse is "gravy, baby." So I'm just adding the 4-AD and 1,4-andro for the potential benefits other than mass gains. (Superdrol alone should be sufficient for mass.)
And this is a far cheaper cycle than the everyday, high-dose cycle you guys recommend.
Does that make sense? Or would you suggest to elimintate the 4-AD and the 1,4-andro altogether and just run a basic Superdrol pulse?

We're recommending the same thing to keep you from wasting your money. The two prohormones you are intending on using have cumulative effects. They are best used everyday and not pulsed. If you absolutely have to pulse, then just use SD, b/c using 1,4AD and 4-AD in this manner you would be wasting their potential as potent, proven, and slow mass builders.

 

[B5150]

So I'm just adding the 4-AD and 1,4-andro for the potential benefits other than mass gains. (Superdrol alone should be sufficient for mass.)
And this is a far cheaper cycle than the everyday, high-dose cycle you guys recommend.
Does that make sense? Or would you suggest to elimintate the 4-AD and the 1,4-andro altogether and just run a basic Superdrol pulse?

What 'other benefits' are you referring to. It is so low dosed that I see no benefit other than to amke your wallet lighter. After bioavailability and conversion the 4AD is worthless at that dose. BTW, appetite increase of 1,4 is overrated.
If pulsing SD if for inhibition reasons then just pulse it solo. If it is for toxicity and lipids, then pulse it and run the 1,4 and/or 4ad throughout.

 

[slow-mun]

What 'other benefits' are you referring to. It is so low dosed that I see no benefit other than to amke your wallet lighter. After bioavailability and conversion the 4AD is worthless at that dose. BTW, appetite increase of 1,4 is overrated.
If pulsing superdrol if for inhibition reasons then just pulse it solo. If it is for toxicity and lipids, then pulse it and run the 1,4 and/or 4ad throughout.

:goodpost:

 

[ImJ2x]

It actually more like a SERM effect than AI. It produces a half strength estrogen that attaches to estrogen receptor there by blocking full strength estrogen from attaching. It can lower overall bloat and gyno effects.

This 1,4-andro stuff gets more and more confusing to me everyday, lol.
I guess my basic question is, will it contribute to the minor estrogenic potential of 4-AD, or will it prevent it?

 

[ImJ2x]

What 'other benefits' are you referring to. It is so low dosed that I see no benefit other than to amke your wallet lighter. After bioavailability and conversion the 4AD is worthless at that dose. BTW, appetite increase of 1,4 is overrated.
If pulsing superdrol if for inhibition reasons then just pulse it solo. If it is for toxicity and lipids, then pulse it and run the 1,4 and/or 4ad throughout.

So you're saying a small dose of 4-AD won't help with libido and lethargy issues? Or that these aren't a concern if I'm only taking Superdrol 2 or 3 times a week?

 

[slow-mun]

This 1,4-andro stuff gets more and more confusing to me everyday, lol.
I guess my basic question is, will it contribute to the minor estrogenic potential of 4-AD, or will it prevent it?

It will contribute IMO. The only thing that you could safely/cheaply add for prevention would be transdermal Formestane. By the way, I thought AI's were used during pulse's? Why is 1,4AD's aromatase inhibition such a concern? In my limited experience with 1,4AD it did keep bloat down, but it also contributed to estrogen sides via nipple sensitivity.

 

[slow-mun]

So you're saying a small dose of 4-AD won't help with libido and lethargy issues? Or that these aren't a concern if I'm only taking Superdrol 2 or 3 times a week?

So you'd be using 4-AD for libido boosting and not muscle building? 2-3 times a week is of little concern. BTW, have you used SD before?

 

[milwood]

Are you using 4AD caps or do you have powder? A transdermal solution for the 4AD would be much more efficient. I forget whether the same can be said for the 1,4; I think that is more bioavaiable than the 4AD orally, but you'll get much more bang for the buck t/d as a general rule with the older standard prohopmones.

 

[ImJ2x]

It will contribute IMO. The only thing that you could safely/cheaply add for prevention would be transdermal Formestane. By the way, I thought AI's were used during pulse's? Why is 1,4AD's aromatase inhibition such a concern? In my limited experience with 1,4AD it did keep bloat down, but it also contributed to estrogen sides via nipple sensitivity.

Well, if you can minimize aromitization during your "on" days, then AI becomes less of a concern on the "off" days. But if you got itchy nips from 1,4AD, that would indicate that it's certainly not an AI (or semi-SERM, lol). Could the nip sensitivity have been caused by someting else in your stack? (Or did you run 1,4AD solo?)

 

[ImJ2x]

So you'd be using 4-AD for libido boosting and not muscle building? 2-3 times a week is of little concern. BTW, have you used superdrol before?

No, I haven't used Superdrol -- I'm a virgin, lol. That's why I'm seeking wisdom.

 

[ImJ2x]

Are you using 4AD caps or do you have powder? A transdermal solution for the 4AD would be much more efficient. I forget whether the same can be said for the 1,4; I think that is more bioavaiable than the 4AD orally, but you'll get much more bang for the buck t/d as a general rule with the older standard prohopmones.

1,4AD is VERY orally-available. But you're right about the 4-AD -- it supposedly works much better transdermally.

 

[T-Bone]

Running the 4ad and 1,4 at those dosages would be a waste of money and definitely do not "pulse" them. I don't believe in the pulse method anyway, but thats just my opinion. I know for a fact though that running 4ad and 1,4 at those dosages won't do anything except contribute to your total cumlative shutdown. Especially in the ridiculous "pulse" method.

 

[ImJ2x]

1,4AD is VERY orally-available. But you're right about the 4-AD -- it supposedly works much better transdermally.

I suppose I could open the caps and make a TD, but it seems like too much hassle -- I'm all about pill-poppin'.

 

[ImJ2x]

Running the 4ad and 1,4 at those dosages would be a waste of money and definitely do not "pulse" them. I don't believe in the pulse method anyway, but thats just my opinion. I know for a fact though that running 4ad and 1,4 at those dosages won't do anything except contribute to your total cumlative shutdown. Especially in the ridiculous "pulse" method.

Why do you hate pulsing? It seems to be fairly effective for some people (especially Superdrol pulses).
And how can you explain that these products will shut me down without doing anything else?

 

[T-Bone]

Why do you hate pulsing? It seems to be fairly effective for some people (especially Superdrol pulses).
And how can you explain that these products will shut me down without doing anything else?

Just my opinion on pulsing, I just don't like the idea of it or agree with its use. It is a fairly new idea that everyone just seems to jump on the bandwagon with. The doses of 4AD and 1,4 you mentioned are too low to actually give you any type of benefit and if you run them in the pulse method you will run them long enough to be shut down while at the same not consistantly enough and not at a high enough dose to give you the benefits. With Superdrol when it first hit the market people didn't know the half-life of the product and I am pretty sure it is still unknown. "Pulsing" it is not going to avoid shutdown or even slow it. I have read many posts where people are still gaining weeks after they stoped taking it. They are still noticing the effects including the sides, the steroid doesn't take that long to build up in your system, and even if go off of it for a few days its still in your system so I don't see the point.

 

[sfearl1]

No, I haven't used Superdrol -- I'm a virgin, lol. That's why I'm seeking wisdom.

dude you are trying to stack sh1t you have never even used.:fool2: why don't you do a 3 week solo superdrol or a 4-6 week superdrol pulse? it'll be far from "boring" like you said

 

[Werewolf]

This would be a pulse cycle -- either 2on/5off, or 3on/4off, for as long as possible before a break is needed. [I'm wondering if the 2on/5off (or maybe even the 3on/4off) could be run indefinitely, without needing a break.]

The components:
Superdrol (original Designer Supps Superdrol) @ 20mg/day
4-AD (real 4-androstenediol, not the new AMS stuff) @ 400mg/day
1,4-andro @ 400mg/day

The reasoning:
I'm hoping for a good "synergistic" stack, with superdrol as the main mass-building component. The other 2 components are meant to complement the superdrol: 4-AD to combat the lethargy and sustain libido (and possibly help with lipids?); and 1,4-andro to increase appetite (feeding the gains). [And DrD says 1,4-andro is a decent AI, which should handle any aromitization of the testosterone to which 4-AD converts.]
The dosing of the 4-AD and the 1,4-andro may seem low, but remember that they are not really included for mass-building (that's superdrol's job), but more for their other benefits (hence, the "synergy"). Furthermore, although the individual doses may seem low, when you add them all up, the total "stack" should be sufficiently dosed (especially for a smaller guy like me -- 5'6" 140lbs).
I'm currently lining up my support supps (for liver, lipid, HPTA, etc).
Any suggestions regarding any part of this proposal will be appreciated (especially for the support supps). Thanks.

If you have already bought these items you may want to think about a cycle like this.

6 to 8 weeks of 1,4AD at around a 1 gram/day
a 10/20/20 every day superdrol dose in last three weeks
throw in the 4AD in last few weeks if you need libido boost.
The 1,4AD will build a base for the superdrol to jump all over.

Running 1,4AD at low dose pulse is not going get you much bang for your bucks. You will not notice it in superdrol cycle or pulse since superdrol is so strong. 1,4AD is good for long cycles with mild sides including suppression.

If you are beginner then going AI's "cycle support" is quick way to protect yourself from the superdrol.

 

[ImJ2x]

I've been gone all afternoon at a funeral. [RIP, George -- every time I tip a Heineken, I'll think of you.] But I see there's still no support for my proposed cycle. I know it's a totally different way of looking at things, but the cycle still makes sense in my mind. Synergy, synergy, synergy (and I'm talking about honest synergy -- not some overblown, fashionable marketing use of the term).
If I do decide to run this cycle, I'll give you guys an honest appraisal of it's effectiveness.
In the meantime, I might try to repost this in DrD's pulsing thread to see if I can find any love for my innovative brilliance, lol. :think:
But thanks for the input -- I am considering your opinions...

 

[ImJ2x]

One simple question -- do you think there would be any benefit to adding low-dose 4-AD and 1,4-AD to a Superdrol pulse, or would it be 100% wasted fundage?

 

[ImJ2x]

bump...
Basically, I happen to have immediate access to some of the oral compounds I mentioned, and at a very, very low price (don't even ask). So I've been trying to figure out the best/safest way to use them. That's why I'm considering a "pulse." [Actually, it's a little different than normal pulsing, which is basically every other day. I like to call it micro-cycling -- 3 days "on," 2 days micro-PCT, 2 days completely "off," repeat indefinitely. Or that's the theory, anyway.]
This seems to be the safest way to use Superdrol. And I'm guessing it will be at least somewhat effective. Any opinions?

 

[ozarkaBRAND]

bump...
Basically, I happen to have immediate access to some of the oral compounds I mentioned, and at a very, very low price (don't even ask). So I've been trying to figure out the best/safest way to use them. That's why I'm considering a "pulse." [Actually, it's a little different than normal pulsing, which is basically every other day. I like to call it micro-cycling -- 3 days "on," 2 days micro-post cycle therapy, 2 days completely "off," repeat indefinitely. Or that's the theory, anyway.]
This seems to be the safest way to use Superdrol. And I'm guessing it will be at least somewhat effective. Any opinions?

Buy the stuff you can, save it for later.. Just pulse SD solo for now.. Since you said it is your first cycle, it is probably in your best interest to run it solo. And it is definitely effective, check out the results people got in the pulsing results thread with SD by itself.