party like it's 1977, a proposed cycle

[washingtonirvin]

Old School Cycle... appraisal and PCT needed!

Hey,

This is my idea for a cycle I would like to carry out this fall.
:woohoo:
Here are my stats: late 20s, 6', 175, over 10 years training experience, very low bodyfat, hardgainer
gear experience: used up 5g var as a pre-workout supp (usually 20-30mg) from nov 06-april 07; tried boldenone trans but not overly fond of it

Reason for wanting to use gear in spite of the fact that I am skinny: well actually, I want to use gear because I am skinny. My lifting experience has transformed me from rail-skinny to tall-thin-muscular. It is not for lack of proper eating-sleeping-training that I weigh 175. I want to get my weight up to 185 asap, and hang around 185-190 long term. Before you go telling me I'm clueless, know that 175 is a historic max for me. I have frequently approached this weight at the end of a creatine cycle, only to fall back to the 160s. I do everything right and 175 is about where I end up.

Previous experiences on this site: most memorably, getting flamed by someone who thought I didn't know what a half-life was.:cheers: Other experiences have been more positive. I have gotten nutritional advice for dealing with Crohn's (now in remission), and learned a ton about lifting, eating, and supplementation.

The part you were waiting for:
Golden Age Cycle
length of cycle: 7 weeks
length of post cycle therapy: 2+ weeks
cycle compounds: primo enanthate, dbol, anavar
post cycle therapy compounds: toremifene, powerfull, creatine, ???

Weekly Plan
1: Primo 500mg
2: Primo 400mg
3: Primo 400mg, Dbol 30mg+Var 20mg M-F
4: Primo 400mg, Dbol 25mg+Var 25mg M-F
5: Primo 400mg, Dbol 25mg+Var 25mg M-F
6: Primo 200mg, Dbol 25mg+Var 25mg M-F
7: Dbol 25mg+Var 25mg M-F
[begin PCT]
8: ???

Training: train M-F, focus especially on deadlifts, squats, barbell seated shoulder press ... 45min M, W, F ... 20-30min Tu, Th ... rest weekends

Diet: 3000-4000 cals/day. 4 meals per day + 1 or more snacks. Around 30g/protein per meal

I want you to help me out: should I use torm during week 8, or hold off until week 9? If I should hold off until week 9, would hCG do me any good? Would creatine be redundant on-cycle? Var never really messed with my libido. Do you think this cycle would? And how hard do you think this cycle would shut me down? Finally, does anyone out there actually think I could make 185 on this cycle and keep my gains?

Q: This cycle is weird. Why do you want to do it?
A: It is weird by today's standards. It would not have been considered weird back when a 210 pound bodybuilder was viewed as "huge".:afro:

Dbol is non AR-mediated in its effects. Var stimulates the androgen receptor well. The two are reportedly synergistic.
Likewise, Dbol and Var are cousins of test, while Primo is a cousin of DHT. I hope for synergy there as well.

Q: Why no test?
A: Test is unquestionably the strongest muscle builder in the universe. But I don't think I need the strongest muscle builder to reach my goals. And, as explained above, I do think that gear can help me reach my goals. I think that the cycle I have outlined will shut me down less than a test cycle. I may gain less from it, but I hope to keep most or all of what I gain. I am open to doing test in the future, but I don't want to do it now.[MEDIA][MEDIA][/MEDIA][/MEDIA]

 

[UnrealMachine]

change that diet to >4000 calories a day with 6 meals and you won't even need steroids.

 

[motive]

if you do this log it!

 

[e_man]

why the Dbol on the 3rd week?

 

[washingtonirvin]

Hey, thanks for all your replies!

UnrealMachine said: "change that diet to >4000 calories a day with 6 meals and you won't even need steroids."

Well, I said 3000-4000 calories per day. So I will compromise and try out 4000+ for a while and let you know how it works. I tend to put off breakfast until 11am or later, and I would like to have it much earlier. To make this happen I must get to bed earlier. I will try out x-dream and see how it works for me. Any other supps that would help me get my zzzz's?

Unquestionably my diet and sleep schedule can be improved, and my quality of life will improve along with them. But I honestly wonder about whether your post is right. I got up to 172 so damn easily in college, with just a little creatine and my normal fanatical training. All the calories and all the training in the world never got me above 174.

I think the majority of men in this country who are six feet tall would have no trouble getting up to 185-190, just as I easily made it to 172. I differ from these men in that I have thin genes. Most women would kill for them. Think about it: most 6' men could get up to 185 easily, but few of these could make it to a lean 225. The few who could are the guys who win bodybuilding competitions. On the other side of the curve, however, are people who would have great difficulty getting up to, say 180. Nothing has gotten me there, and I have harmed my body by overfeeding it in the past.

I have tried your approach unsuccessfully. I honestly believe that my genes are holding me back far more than my diet. I can outlift most of the 200 pound men I know, and this is a result of intelligent training and eating.

 

[washingtonirvin]

motive said: "if you do this log it!"

promise!

e_man said: "why the Dbol on the 3rd week?"

well, I want to allow the primo to get going before I add it. I proposed 5 weeks of orals to err on the side of caution, and liked the idea of keeping the orals for a week after discontinuing the primo.

but I read the stuff about pulsing after posting this. I really like the idea of pulsing my orals, an EOD routine. and I wonder which would provide better gains, ceteris paribus, on an EOD pulse:
1: dbol 25mg + var 25mg
or
2: tbol 40mg + andriol 200mg

fill a brother in!

 

[motive]

I dont really notice var much till around 50mg... just a suggestion

 

[washingtonirvin]

Thanks motive and Gixxer82...
I am definitely willing to increase the dbol and var. I actually was planning on taking a single AM dose, but pulsing makes me more willing to split it up. On on days I could take 20mg AM + 20mg afternoon.
I'm not sure what the reason is, but I think I am a hyper-responder to var. I'm also a hyper-responder to creatine. I think 30mg var in the AM will be ample.
This would leave my on days like this: 30mg var + 40mg dbol.

Would this be better at packing on lean mass than a tbol + andriol combo?

 

[motive]

Yes I believe so.


I wouldn't worry about being shutdown "less" or "more" because you should always run a strong post cycle therapy regardless.

ditto... well put

 

[Iron Warrior]

Just curious, why aren't you taking the orals on weekends ? I prefer steady levels and I would definitely bump the var to 40-50 mg. and D-Bol to 35 mg. I would also ditch the T-Bol and andriol idea personally.

 

[washingtonirvin]

ok... tbol and andriol are out.

I haven't decided when I will take the orals, and I seem to be hearing that taking weekends off is a bad idea. So, I could take the orals every day or pulse them. Honestly, I am a bit wary of taking the orals 7-days/week. I always took days off with var before, and I felt my body appreciated this.

So, here is my idea: 7 weeks of orals EOD, plus primo during weeks 1-6.

I appreciate all your help ... I will focus on dosages once the schedule is sorted out.

 

[motive]

still log it bro.
whats your cycle expierence

 

[washingtonirvin]

I will log it no matter what!

My only cycle experience is the 5g worth of var I took this past winter/early spring. I definitely enjoyed it, though.:bruce1: