DEA and Steroid use!

[Chicken]

I feel like ranting on this cause I just ran across an article published about AS users sentencing getting tougher.

I personally could care less about all the sports and steroid use busts. It irritates the hell out of me though that politicians feel the need to put more people in prison because they chose to use AS. Nobody really cared what anybody was doing till they found out that thier most cherishable sports were heavily influenced by steroids. WOOPETYDOO!!! :aargh:

Its an idiodic fight and waste of US resources to try and stop chemical enhancement. Well maybe chemical enhance may go away, but only because we are on the brink of genetic alteration. It concerns me that we are putting normal people in prison regarding such a stupid offense, especially since half the police dept in my city uses AS. Maybe we should be a little more concerned with the tweakers killing people for a couple bucks than the guy who is possibly only harming himself. I dont think anyone has ever heard of black market steroids supporting terrorism, like opiates do so well... Just my 2 cents, and yes I do feel better now.

 

[cavefish]

Welcome to the war on drugs.

 

[Chicken]

I dont have a problem with the "War on Drugs", but lets not classify everything the same here. Steroids do not pose nearly the same threat to society that your typical street drugs do. Therefore I dont think a steroid user deserves the same sentence as the guy who got caught using street drugs. Especially since the politicians have a hard on for steroids right now. I bet they are actually giving longer sentences to steroid users right now then 3rd time meth offenders (why, cause steroids are politically motivating right now).

 

[pistonpump]

theyre just jealous cuz theyre old and flabby and there wives are getting banged by guys like me! haha. douchebags....

 

[Mach .78]

theyre just jealous cuz theyre old and flabby and there wives are getting banged by guys like me! haha. douchebags....

Dude, Have you seen some of their wives? You think Hillary Clinton looks bad.........

 

[Chicken]

Lmfao!

 

[bioman]

"Steroids do not pose nearly the same threat to society that your typical street drugs do. Therefore I dont think a steroid user deserves the same sentence as the guy who got caught using street drugs."

Nope. Same categorey. You can't elevate yourself above the "drug users" because you are one if you use AAS.

You're putting people in prison for buying a substance, which is fundamentally wrong. If a person commits terrible acts while using a substance..sure, lock'em up. But if they own and use a substance and never harm another person while doing so...that's a victimless crime and that's what the vast majority of AAS, Marijuana and other recreational drug users do.

So yes, we are now all targets of the War on Drugs...be careful of who and what you support in the matter.

 

[Jynxx]

yeah i've never even understood why they're illegal in the first place, if you're fat you have the choice of a gastric bypass or if you wanted calf implants you can get em or if a grl wants bigger tits she can have em, why cant we alter our bodies.

 

[Erik2003]

A very good read on the subject is a book called "Legal Muscle". The book will infuriate you on how the AAS laws got enacted. More importantly, the book provides excellent knowledge on the legal aspects of AAS use and prosecution.

 

[SteelEntity]

Jack Bauer does steroids... he also doesn't eat, drink, sleep, piss/****, smile, laugh, miss fire, or feel pain/ pleasure. Oh and he dials numbers on his cell phone super quick. Sweeeet

 

[yeahright]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bioman again.

 

[Chicken]

"Steroids do not pose nearly the same threat to society that your typical street drugs do. Therefore I dont think a steroid user deserves the same sentence as the guy who got caught using street drugs."

Nope. Same categorey. You can't elevate yourself above the "drug users" because you are one if you use anabolic steroids.

You're putting people in prison for buying a substance, which is fundamentally wrong. If a person commits terrible acts while using a substance..sure, lock'em up. But if they own and use a substance and never harm another person while doing so...that's a victimless crime and that's what the vast majority of AAS, Marijuana and other recreational drug users do.

So yes, we are now all targets of the War on Drugs...be careful of who and what you support in the matter.

Its unfortunate that our sole deterent in society is to lock people up. I can understand the violent offenders, but substance abuse should really be dealt with in other ways. I cant really think of a good way though as I do understand the pitfalls of legalizing certain substances. Maybe just give you three strikes then execute... so I dont have to pay for inmates anymore out of my checks (JK).

As far as steroids go, they should have left the PH's alone. I guess its really the sports (Baseball PH use) thing that gets me so agitated.

I really wonder what the Police in my area are going to use in the future. I know of a specific store that sells PH's to alot of officers in my city, but they are loopholing it right now cause of the triple methyls and such. I cant imagine the police want to depend solely on genetics to protect themselves here. I guess they at the very least should be allowed some sort of legalized use.

 

[Erik2003]

I understand what your are saying, but I disagree to the extent that this places one class of citizens above the law. What goes for one person, should go for the others. Especially for those that elect to enforce the laws.

What I think needs to be done is regulation of the substances similar to the alcohol control laws. Minimal age requirements is a better policy. Additionally, the government should have the authletic governing bodiers regulate their own athletes and not permit them to surrender regulation to the government.

Well that's my two cents...

 

[stxnas]

There are other countries that are becoming more lax on their drug and steroid policies IE you are allowed to have enough on your person for YOURSELF, but not more. It's crazy how a country like the US is going backwards with this kind of stuff.

My wife is anti-anything illegal. We got into a debate about why it is unethical to smoke marijuana or do steroids. She says b/c it's against the law. She didn't know what to say when I asked her if it would be okay to do then if I were in a country where it's legal. You guys see where I'm going with this? It's as if people can't think for themselves and their own opinions have spoon fed to them.

I don't do steroids or smoke marijuana, but I could care less if those around me are doing it. It's like the damn seatbelt laws. If you're an adult should you be pulled over and ticketed b/c you're not wearing your seatbelt? Give me a break! End Rant :rant:

 

[Chicken]

Yup I totally agree stx! That makes alot of sense. Ive gotten into this same argument with a friend. I really dont care what others do, it burns me up when we pass laws because sports has been corrupted. Sports have been, and will be corrupted for eternity in my opinion. Now that natural bodybuilding has banned AI's I wonder if it will be banned in baseball and soon after against the law.

 

[Erik2003]

My wife is anti-anything illegal. We got into a debate about why it is unethical to smoke marijuana or do steroids. She says b/c it's against the law. She didn't know what to say when I asked her if it would be okay to do then if I were in a country where it's legal. You guys see where I'm going with this? It's as if people can't think for themselves and their own opinions have spoon fed to them.

I don't do steroids or smoke marijuana, but I could care less if those around me are doing it. It's like the damn seatbelt laws. If you're an adult should you be pulled over and ticketed b/c you're not wearing your seatbelt? Give me a break! End Rant :rant:

Again, I slightly disagree only because marijuana affects judgment and mental processing, thereby endangering society (e.g. driving a car while high). Additioanlly, there might be an argument that the addictive effect can lead to crime. I do not know of any AAS related addiction crimes (outside the present laws banning the substances). Also AAS does not affect judgment, and the "roid rage" argument has not been proven, therefore there are no arguments to protect the public or "for the public good". Seatbelt laws save millions of dollars in taxpayer money regarding excessive injuries in auto accidents. AAS use does nothing exect cosmetic changes and possible anti-aging (but then this is part of the legal exceptions making them usable).

Last note, just because something is illegal, does not make it "unethical" - which was not what you were probably saying. AAS use is at best amoral, even though illegal. Morality is based on sociological viewpoints.

Accordingly, I think there may be a need for regulation but not outright banning.

 

[stxnas]

There's no right or wrong answer, just a difference of opinions!

Again, I slightly disagree only because marijuana affects judgment and mental processing, thereby endangering society (e.g. driving a car while high)....

...Last note, just because something is illegal, does not make it "unethical" - which was not what you were probably saying. anabolic steroids use is at best amoral, even though illegal. Morality is based on sociological viewpoints.

Accordingly, I think there may be a need for regulation but not outright banning.

Let me start by stating that I completely understand what you're saying/whereing your're coming from, but where do we draw the line?

Yes marijuana does affect mental processing, but so does alcohol, amongst other things. Alcohol is just as bad as marijuana in my book, if not worse. And about the seat belt thing-->My cousin was thrown from a car while it was flipping and if he would of been wearing a seat belt he would have been crushed. The roof was touching the steering wheel. I know it's an extreme case, but I say let people make that choice. Look at it as natural selection <--don't take that too seriously

...and I completely agree with the last portion(s) of your response. That was what I was getting at when I was comparing the US to other countries and the debate I had with my wife. I agree with you, but not everybody can make that distinction.

 

[PhilABowl]

According to the current stance on AS use, Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler should be hitting 90 or 100 home runs a year.

The World's Strongest Man competitors should be hitting about the same and better.

Ronnie's current batting average: .000 with 0 at bats
Jay's current batting average: .000 with 0 at bats

Maybe they need to go back to the minors for awhile...

 

[bioman]

"Also AAS does not affect judgment, and the "roid rage" argument has not been proven, therefore there are no arguments to protect the public or "for the public good"."

I disagree insomuch as androgens are well known for giving men their more aggressive natures. AAS certainly can and do impart personality changes even if science hasn't pinned that aspect down yet...it took them over 50 years to conclude that they build muscle.

While I beleive in regulation without criminalization of pot, steroids and other substances, AAS are far from being purely cosmetic in their effects. If this were true, this board would not be here because it would be a simple matter of gulping them down then taking more because "more is better". Women don't have to check their liver enzymes and lipid panels before and after using lipstick.


It is interesting to see people espouse this bias simply because it is their ox that is getting gored. There are many in the BBing community that become hypersensitive when AAS come under attack. Granted, society and govt are gravely misinformed as to the actual dangers that AAS posess, but to deny all dangers damages our credibility.

I have a lot of oxen, most of them are wearing their guts for garters, so perhaps I see things a little differently.

 

[Chicken]

The two illegal substances I fear the least are AAS and Weed. I am completely in support for banning alchohol as it seems to a substance that most people cannot control and is very dangerous to society

 

[bioman]

"The two illegal substances I fear the least are anabolic steroids and Weed. I am completely in support for banning alchohol as it seems to a substance that most people cannot control and is very dangerous to society"


And scientifically, no one could possibly hope to refute your argument. The numbers show undeniably that pot and AAS kill far fewer people than alcohol..both directly and indirectly. Since your picking on their particular habit, you'll get a bunch of arguments that pot and AAS are "amoral" and "hurt the children" and all the rest..but when a bus full of kids gets plowed by a drunk driver, well, that's just unfortunate.

 

[cry0smate]

i guess that I don't really see how you can throw AS in the same category with other substances. Granted you can call all of them illegal, but does that make them the same?? No.

Does AS impair your ability to function? No
Does AS impair your ability to make rational decisions?? No (some would argue this one)

but still, they are very different things. Maybe my opinion is biased but I never heard of someone getting busted for Driving while under the influence of Tren.

 

[bioman]

Ooooh, there's some pretty good Tren stories out there. lol

There is use of a drug, and both pot and AAS have their abusers. ANYONE who drives high is abusing the drug IMO, and should be jailed. Anyone who uses Tren for 25 weeks straight at high doses who doesn't have health insurance and ends up in the ER on the tax payer dime is abusing and is causing a problem for us..both financially and image related.

The point is not to implicitly compare AAS to pot to alcohol per se, but rather like it or not, society has pigeonholed things like pot and AAS into the same moral eqivilancy.

We can run threads from now until the end of time on the premise that "my drug is better than yours" but in the end, that is self defeating as we all need to lobby to de-criminalize as well as to influence users to use and not abuse.

 

[Erik2003]

" I disagree insomuch as androgens are well known for giving men their more aggressive natures. AAS certainly can and do impart personality changes even if science hasn't pinned that aspect down yet...it took them over 50 years to conclude that they build muscle.

While I beleive in regulation without criminalization of pot, steroids and other substances, AAS are far from being purely cosmetic in their effects. If this were true, this board would not be here because it would be a simple matter of gulping them down then taking more because "more is better". Women don't have to check their liver enzymes and lipid panels before and after using lipstick.

Your point, and those of everyone here are well made. But, first, the alpha male personality change change from AAS use, has not been linked to violent behavior, nor has is it sufficient to cause loss of control unlike other drugs. Therefore, the roid rage argument used to oppose AAS banning fails. This also brings me to a point, I do not think it is a good argument to support AAS use alongside Marijuana use. Leave the drug arguments alone. AAS is not a "drug" and one should argue that it was wrongfully categorised with drugs in order to lift some of the bans...

Second, the cosmetic argument is propositioned on the issued that the purpose most of the "users" use them is to build their bodies for the other sex and themselves, hense cosmetic, and not for work, etc. Lets admit it only a few make it to the professional ranks of BBing. And there may be an argument supporting drug free sports (which should include BBing as a sport). Power lifting is not any different. AAS use in PL deminishes the sport (please do not go into supportive equipment like bench shirts - thats another rant).

the reason I use the cosmetic use argument is to support the proposition that AAS is used my the vast majority of people is to improve their looks and therefore there is no need to ban such a substance. I do acknowledge that AAS use has some special requirements, eg research and PCT etc., But the reason they are taken remains cosmetic in use by the vast majority.

Thanks for soapbox, next...

 

[rugger48]

According to the current stance on AS use, Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler should be hitting 90 or 100 home runs a year.

The World's Strongest Man competitors should be hitting about the same and better.

Ronnie's current batting average: .000 with 0 at bats
Jay's current batting average: .000 with 0 at bats

Maybe they need to go back to the minors for awhile...

Not sure what your getting at here.

 

[PhilABowl]

Not sure what your getting at here.

One perspective on steroids these days is that steroids are the sole reason people are doing certain things, like hitting home runs. My point is that if that were the case, then people like ronnie and jay would be MLB superstars. They aren't, because you need more than just powerful arms to hit baseballs.

 

[bioman]

"AAS is not a "drug" and one should argue that it was wrongfully categorised with drugs in order to lift some of the bans..."

With the exception of naturally occurring compounds like test and nandrolone..yes, most are drugs as they are synthetic variations of test and often behave in radically different ways. Methylated compounds like Superdrol fit nicely into the "drug" categorey as do many others.

As for leaving other drugs alone..no, the parallels are too close in that things like pot and AAS were villified and made illegal for purely political reasons. Just because one drug makes you look better does not isolate it from such comparisons.

 

[SteelEntity]

One perspective on steroids these days is that steroids are the sole reason people are doing certain things, like hitting home runs. My point is that if that were the case, then people like ronnie and jay would be MLB superstars. They aren't, because you need more than just powerful arms to hit baseballs.

I see what you are getting at but proffesional sports that do not allow steroid use need to respected. Now saying this is some what contradictory to me thinking screw legality issues... people can take steroids if they want... it's their own body. And this is truly my take on the issue. Now being a pro athlete is another thing, they must respect their occupation.If i was a MLB player and knew that if I took steroids it would ultimately cause me great hardships then I would never do it. I hate the fact these pro athletes take steroids when they know 100% they are not allowed and it is disrespectful to their sport and more importantly their fans.

 

[Chicken]

Ok well rather than making AAS illegal, it should have been made a cosmetic proceedure that doctors can practice. I really dont see the difference between using schedule III painkillers for cosmetic purposes and using AAS schedule III for cosmetic purposes. Except that as far as I know the AAS is way less harmfull on the body.

 

[pistonpump]

Ok well rather than making anabolic steroids illegal, it should have been made a cosmetic proceedure that doctors can practice. I really dont see the difference between using schedule III painkillers for cosmetic purposes and using AAS schedule III for cosmetic purposes. Except that as far as I know the AAS is way less harmfull on the body.

i got confused on this one. how are schedule III painkillers used for cosmetic purposes? I thought it was for pain lol.

 

[stxnas]

I'm thinking he means post-surgery.

 

[TeamSavage]

Nope. Same categorey. You can't elevate yourself above the "drug users" because you are one if you use anabolic steroids.

You're putting people in prison for buying a substance, which is fundamentally wrong. If a person commits terrible acts while using a substance..sure, lock'em up. But if they own and use a substance and never harm another person while doing so...that's a victimless crime and that's what the vast majority of AAS, Marijuana and other recreational drug users do.

So yes, we are now all targets of the War on Drugs...be careful of who and what you support in the matter.

:clap2:

 

[Chicken]

Well they are incorporated into the proceedure is what I meant.