Havoc and Epistane cycle. together!

pistonpump

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What do you guys think about a Havoc/Epistane cycle. I would buy 1 bottle of each and run them both. I dont quite know the best way to determine which has better effects or if they are indeed the exact same.

week 1- 20mg=14 pills
week 2- 30mg=21 pills
week 3- 30mg=21 pills
week 4- 40mg=28 pills
week 5- 40mg=28 pills
week 6- 50mg=35 pills
week 7- 50mg=35 pills
total =182 pills ( a little over)

What would you guys like to see first and/or how would I go about comparing the two. Does this sound like a dumb idea?

I would be following routine cycle measures on and off, of course. Just throwing an idea i have out there....
 

tattoopierced1

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i imagine your lower back is going to hate you. 40mg of epi gave some awful back pumps.....
 

rybino

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What do you guys think about a Havoc/Epistane cycle. I would buy 1 bottle of each and run them both. I dont quite know the best way to determine which has better effects or if they are indeed the exact same.

week 1- 20mg=14 pills
week 2- 30mg=21 pills
week 3- 30mg=21 pills
week 4- 40mg=28 pills
week 5- 40mg=28 pills
week 6- 50mg=35 pills
week 7- 50mg=35 pills
total =182 pills ( a little over)

What would you guys like to see first and/or how would I go about comparing the two. Does this sound like a dumb idea?

I would be following routine cycle measures on and off, of course. Just throwing an idea i have out there....
uhh maybe i'm wrong but that would be like running two cycles of the same exact thing at once?
 
Travis

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Not a bad idea. 7 weeks seems a bit long for an oral cycle, however I know that you are experienced. As far as back pumps i didnt really experience this side. I ramped up to 40mg and would have preferred to gone higher if it wasnt my first oral cycle.
 

PumpingIron

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People seem to like running this stuff longer...7 or even 8 weeks seems to be more common. I really haven't seen gains until my 3rd week of Havoc @ 50mgs.

Back pumps were only very slight and I didn't even use taurine at all.

I am dosing it at 60mgs for my final day tomorrow. Beyond that seems interesting.
 
Travis

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People seem to like running this stuff longer...7 or even 8 weeks seems to be more common. I really haven't seen gains until my 3rd week of Havoc @ 50mgs.

Back pumps were only very slight and I didn't even use taurine at all.

I am dosing it at 60mgs for my final day tomorrow. Beyond that seems interesting.
How long was your cycle? Im considering using havoc again at a higher dosage and possibly throwin in propadrol.
 

PumpingIron

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Only 3 weeks. I have a little different priorities this year or I would have ran it longer.
 
DecaDone

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uhh maybe i'm wrong but that would be like running two cycles of the same exact thing at once?
rybino, I would sit the next few plays out if I were you. Especially after asking if you drink or inject nolva.
 
bLacKjAck.

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rybino, I would sit the next few plays out if I were you. Especially after asking if you drink or inject nolva.
ahahahahaha...this made me laugh really hard. Thanks Deca for being the man. :icon_lol:
 

grantr

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If I took havoc again I would definitely start at 30 mg and move it up to around 50-60
 
RoadBlocK

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Hey ppump, I like your idea, but for sake of comparision I would rather see you run them evenly back to back, ie:

run one for 3-4 weeks then the other for 3-4 weeks, might give an idea if theres any difference, might not.

If 3-ad wasnt on the way thats what I was gonna do.

Week+, @40, aggression up, puffy nipples down, strength up, no back pumps, notice a definite diuretic effect, gaining weight, appetite up, worried about joints.
 
hurdlemaker

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oh and im on like day 11 of epistane, and im up about 10lbs :thumbsup:
 
pistonpump

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maybe i could run a week of havoc 30mg followed by a week of epi 30mg then a week of havoc 40mg followed by a week of epi 40mg...etc, etc.... would that help with the comparing of the two?

Hopefully I can clear up some of the confusion on which product is "cleaner"
 

PumpingIron

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Well heres the problem with running them back to back. You will most likely get diminishing returns after a prolonged period of use. It wouldn't be the best way to compare.

PP, your way seems like the best way. Or Pulsing them. I personally don't like the pulse idea, but it would be the best way to determine which is more effective.

2 weeks Havoc, 2 OFF, 2 Weeks Epi, 2 OFF, 2 Weeks Havoc, Etc....
 
pistonpump

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Well heres the problem with running them back to back. You will most likely get diminishing returns after a prolonged period of use. It wouldn't be the best way to compare.

PP, your way seems like the best way. Or Pulsing them. I personally don't like the pulse idea, but it would be the best way to determine which is more effective.

2 weeks Havoc, 2 OFF, 2 Weeks Epi, 2 OFF, 2 Weeks Havoc, Etc....
well the way i have it, i still have no clue how i should run it brand name wise...nawdamean? ex: havoc then epi..? etc.

I dont like the pulse idea at all and im not interesting in doing it. Maybe i should just screw this idea and just run one of the two with two bottles.

I hear its not that toxic or harsh and i would mainly like the benefiets of gyno reduction hence the long cycle.

Well continue with the ideas....
 

PumpingIron

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In that case, I would go with your route. 1week of this, then 1week of that.

Havoc into Epi, IMO. Havoc has been said to have purity and conentration issues, so if anything is wrong with it, it would be the amount per/cap. Starting with the lesser compound would prove benificial to you. And if it isn't the case, you should be fine, too.
 

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It seems like there is a lot of confusion involving Havoc and Epistane due to the different nomenclature conventions adopted by RPN and IBE. The two active compounds are in fact exactly the same. I cannot say anything about relative purity, but the actual PS contained in each is identical.

Havoc: 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

Epistane: 2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane

Havoc's naming better follows the IUPAC nomenclature conventions, but both accurately describe the same compound. The prefix hydroxy- and the suffix -ol both represent an alcohol functional group (-OH). In the case of havoc/epistane, this alcohol group is found as a substituent on C17 (in the beta (b) configuration).

For example, the alcohol found in liquor, beer, etc. is known as ethanol. The -ol represents the alcohol group. This could also be named hydroxyethane, although it would be unconventional to do so.
 

PumpingIron

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It seems like there is a lot of confusion involving Havoc and Epistane due to the different nomenclature conventions adopted by RPN and IBE. The two active compounds are in fact exactly the same. I cannot say anything about relative purity, but the actual PS contained in each is identical.

Havoc: 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

Epistane: 2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane

Havoc's naming better follows the IUPAC nomenclature conventions, but both accurately describe the same compound. The prefix hydroxy- and the suffix -ol both represent an alcohol functional group (-OH). In the case of havoc/epistane, this alcohol group is found as a substituent on C17 (in the beta (b) configuration).

For example, the alcohol found in liquor, beer, etc. is known as ethanol. The -ol represents the alcohol group. This could also be named hydroxyethane, although it would be unconventional to do so.

Yes, this is commonly known. The reason people questions is due to the molecular weight from testing done in the past on both compounds.

But thats a whole nother can of worms
 
pistonpump

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i know that they are said to be the same but with all the ruckus on who has a better product or which has more active and all this and that i thought id do both. Im leaning more towards a Havoc only cycle because it is in stock. IBE oh well, there goes some money....
 
FitModel

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I'm on day 4 of Havoc 20mgs (nothing really yet)...I'm gonna do another day of 20mgs, then bump up to 30mgs for 2 weeks, then 40mgs for 2 more...
 
pistonpump

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Well i got Epidrol instead, new company so im gonna take my chances. Got 4 bottles and 1 more coming so Ill probably start a cycle in july.

i have some MTRN, ZOL, and Sdrol. What would you guys like to see me run it with if anything? I made up some cycle ideas but ill start a different thread for that.
 

PumpingIron

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I wouldn't run it with ZOL cuz it is dry enough already.

I personally feel it is somewhat harsh, so I'd stay away from Sdrol...

But running it with TRN would most likely prove to put on significant strength, while toning up a bit...but not much mass...
 
FitModel

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In that case, I would go with your route. 1week of this, then 1week of that.

Havoc into Epi, IMO. Havoc has been said to have purity and conentration issues, so if anything is wrong with it, it would be the amount per/cap. Starting with the lesser compound would prove benificial to you. And if it isn't the case, you should be fine, too.

can someone explain this...


IBE Epistane was just lab tested…it has less than 40% of what the label claims! « Anthony Roberts Blog
 
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Jayhawkk

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No, I wouldn't run them back to back or on top of each other. This stuff does lower estrogen and dosing high for long periods of time is just asking for trouble. my 2 cents but don't go nuts with these new hormones like I did.
 
FitModel

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Basically yes. All of the products tested showed to comtain between 3-4mgs of the active compared to the 10mgs the label clamied.
all of the products tested? what "all" does that include?
 

PumpingIron

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from my recollection Epistane and Havoc.
 

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