Test Enanthate and Epistane...

[hurdlemaker]

Alright here we go...

Weeks 1-3:
Epistane 40mg
Grub On
Perfect Cycle

Weeks 1-12:
250mg Test Enanthate E3D

Weeks 4-12:
Arimadex

Post:
Toremifine
IGF
Anabolic Pump
Either MassFX/Hyperdrol or POWERFULL/TNA (which do u think?)

Taken Throughout:
Cissus
Poseidon
Hawthorn Berry 1.1g
Saw Palmetto

Height: 6'1"
Weight: 192
Chest: 47 1/2"
Bicep L: 16 1/2"
Bicep R: 17"
Forearm L: 13"
Forearm R: 13 1/4"
Waist: 30"
Quad 5" above knee L: 20 1/2"
Quad 10" above knee L: 23 1/2"
Quad 5" above knee R: 20 1/2"
Quad 10" above knee R: 24 "
Calf L: 15 1/2"
Calf R: 16 "

So basically I lost a few lbs after I got off the mdrol, mostly because i was really shut down because I couldnt take any post cycle. Anyways then I couldn't do legs for the last month and my legs have shrunk. I don't know why my left leg has lost more than my right, especially since it was my right hip that was hurt. My Ciatic nerve is still being pinched, but im just gonna have to deal with it i guess. Also I just finished a 7day detox, which caused me to lose a lil more weight, and I also lost a lil around the waist.

My girlfriend gave me my first injection yesterday, and it wasnt bad at all. I also started the epistane yesterday. Im gonna be doing a clean bulk and hoping to gain around 20lbs+.

Heres some before pics, no pump...Also my abs look like ****, I havent been able to do abs in the past month because when I try to I get pain shooting down my entire body...But ive been stretching a lot and 2 days ago I could do some abs without pain

 

[DecaDone]

nice, cycle looks good. Just wondering the reasoning for bumping the test up to 750 weeks 4-9?

...I like powerfull

 

[hurdlemaker]

nice, cycle looks good. Just wondering the reasoning for bumping the test up to 750 weeks 4-9?

...I like powerfull

I wanted to ramp it to try and put on more size...

 

[mmowry]

Looks good Ive been curious to see how synergistic Epi and test will be.Should be amazing.Good luck Hurdle!

 

[hman85]

good luck hurdle looks like a good stack. but you look solid already ha ha

 

[workin2005]

Subscribed...Good luck, this should be a very interesting log!

Workin

 

[Ubiquitous]

You're big for 6'1 192.

Good luck, have you thought about continuing 750mg until the end?

Take Saw Palmetto concurrently.

 

[hurdlemaker]

k, im gonna get some saw palmetto

 

[gogo]

Have you ever used grub on before?
If so how do you like it? Im really looking into trying this out on my next cycle.

 

[hurdlemaker]

Have you ever used grub on before?
If so how do you like it? Im really looking into trying this out on my next cycle.

So far the grub on seems to be working pretty well, ill take it, then eat a huge meal, then feel full but still be hungry, lol, it might make things taste better too

 

[zed]

i'd add somthing for liver support longer then just first three weeks due to methy epi. should be taken through post cyle. maybe just get life or cycle support and take throughout . also maybe extend the epi into 4 or fifth week starting at 20 then workin to 40 or 30 into when the test starts to kick in fully.

 

[hurdlemaker]

i'd add somthing for liver support longer then just first three weeks due to methy epi. should be taken through post cyle. maybe just get life or cycle support and take throughout . also maybe extend the epi into 4 or fifth week starting at 20 then workin to 40 or 30 into when the test starts to kick in fully.

I dont think epistane at 20mg would do much for me, also im not that worried about my liver after I finish the epistane. Enanthate isnt really all that hard on your liver. I might take cycle support later on but im not sure, I dont like the way it tastes at all, hell i think ive even got a bottle laying around. I could also just throw in some milk thistle. I just dont want to be taking too many oral supplements though because I dont want to take a chance on upsetting my stomach. Also I dont want to buy more than one bottle of epistane right now, this **** isnt cheap and im a college student. I think ill get plenty of gains from the cycle the way I have it, I dont really want to gain toooooo much, lol

 

[jomi822]

you look like that guy brock from spider man 3...

 

[PumpingIron]

isnt that topher grace? i think that might be an insult...haha

 

[jomi822]

dont **** with venom

 

[hurdlemaker]

dont **** with venom

dont really think i look like him at all actually, lol

 

[hurdlemaker]

Well today is day 5 and I can say that I think im feeling some effects from the epistane. My gyno is going down a lil and getting softer and im in a great mood lately and feel very motivated in the gym and at work and home. Im up about 3 lbs so far, but ill post weight at the end of the week, and im going to post measurements at the end of each month. One question though...I was planning on only injecting once a week, but ive heard some people saying that enanthate needs to be injected twice a week...Which is correct?

 

[Ubiquitous]

It's not "needed"... on paper you can get away with once a week. Twice a week should provide levels that are more stable.. The more stable the blood levels, there is less occurance of sides.

I in fact pin almost everything EOD, be it Prop, Isocaproate, Cypionate, Enanthate.. I pin Acetate ED... The only thing that I've pinned 1x/week was Undecanaote.. And I pin Decanoate 2x/week.

 

[PumpingIron]

It's not "needed"... on paper you can get away with once a week. Twice a week should provide levels that are more stable.. The more stable the blood levels, there is less occurance of sides.

I in fact pin almost everything EOD, be it Prop, Isocaproate, Cypionate, Enanthate.. I pin Acetate ED... The only thing that I've pinned 1x/week was Undecanaote.. And I pin Decanoate 2x/week.

damn brosef...

 

[Ubiquitous]

^^ Hey, not all at once.

 

[hurdlemaker]

It's not "needed"... on paper you can get away with once a week. Twice a week should provide levels that are more stable.. The more stable the blood levels, there is less occurance of sides.

I in fact pin almost everything EOD, be it Prop, Isocaproate, Cypionate, Enanthate.. I pin Acetate ED... The only thing that I've pinned 1x/week was Undecanaote.. And I pin Decanoate 2x/week.

so instead of 500mg once a week should i do 250 twice a week?

 

[PumpingIron]

so instead of 500mg once a week should i do 250 twice a week?

thats the most common practice.

 

[jomi822]

you dont have to but it might help even out some of the sides.

hormone fluctuation is what aggravtes acne, hair loss, mood swings, etc. the less fluctuation, the smoother things are.

 

[ralph4u2c]

so instead of 500mg once a week should i do 250 twice a week?

it is better to split the dosage. inject every 4th day instead of once a week. keep your hormones more even rather than a large spikes/drops. i am subscribed, as i am starting a Test C/Epi @ 400mg split through the week for 10 weeks. epistane for the first 4 weeks instead of frontloading test. i know you already bought it so to late but i heard (this is my first inject cycle btw) that test increases your appetite a great deal so maybe you dont need the grub on, but it cant hurt right? just a thought for next time. i would also throw in some of ALRI's restore for PCT, maybe some synthetic HCG if you can get your hands on it.

 

[hurdlemaker]

how about 250mg every 4th day? Then i can go up to 375 every 4th day...

 

[ralph4u2c]

how about 250mg every 4th day? Then i can go up to 375 every 4th day...

most people do a higher dose for the first 2 weeks or so (frontload) in hopes to kick in test faster but i guess your approach of higher levels after epistane is done (kind of like frontloading test by using an oral) around the time test "kicks" in could show some success, just dont know how much. only time will tell, sometimes ramping up dosages only causes more sides to show. if this is the case, go back down to 500mg or whatever you feel comfortable at.

 

[Ubiquitous]

EOD is 3.5 times a week. E3D is 2.5 times a week. E4D is 1.75 times a week.

250mg E3D would be 625mg/week average.

250mg E4D is 437.5mg/week average.

1.25cc's E4D would be 312.5mg/day averaging 547mg/week.

You can ascertain dosages by those calculations. E4D is fine, I just choose to have more frequent schedules with Enan. You can do anything that is reasonable.

I'm not saying your advice is wrong ralph4u2c, but why would you give advice when you haven't done it? Just curious as to how you can justify giving advice when you haven't yourself been there. I'm referring to your E4D advice, dose manipulation, and ALRI's restore post cycle therapy. I'm assuming you are advising to use HCG during and not after.

 

[ralph4u2c]

Just curious as to how you can justify giving advice when you haven't yourself been there.

its called years of research before using a compound. a mix of other people's logs, words (cant believe them all but..), lab research, and common knowledge of things like esters chains and their release timing. not to mention i have many friends/family who are knowledgable about gear and have been around it for quite some time. also, injecting every 4th day seems to be the magic # for most users. i was 16-17 years old learning how to homebrew transdermals, not that i used them but it was something i was interested in reading about. same applies with many aspects of chemistry, biology, BB'ing etc

many people give advice about a supplement or product based on what they read from other users and never try the product themselves. i have done it, im sure everyone in this thread has done it. unless your Sam or someone who can try all of them because they own a nutrition store :rofl:

 

[Ubiquitous]

I'm not entirely convinced that there is a magic number.

research is good, but better when you apply it and then can give advice from experience. For example, frontloading... Doesn't work for me, but you would expect it to work, looking at it on "paper".. right?

I guess it's a pet peeve of mine. I haven't given advice on things I haven't used. You justified it well enough, but come back to me and let me know if your research held up to your experiences.. more often than not, it doesn't.

Good luck to you both.

 

[mfbb]

not that I'm any authority on this subject by any means...but I have to go with Ubi...personal experience is a better judge than the way something looks on "paper"...i hear so many times "this was supposed to do this because thats what the research said" but thats not always the case

anyway hurdle...good luck with the cycle bro

 

[PumpingIron]

I'm not entirely convinced that there is a magic number.

research is good, but better when you apply it and then can give advice from experience. For example, frontloading... Doesn't work for me, but you would expect it to work, looking at it on "paper".. right?

I guess it's a pet peeve of mine. I haven't given advice on things I haven't used. You justified it well enough, but come back to me and let me know if your research held up to your experiences.. more often than not, it doesn't.

Good luck to you both.

I haven't really read much on frontloading test....it doesn't make sense to me...

But there is a ton of info on front loading other compounds like EQ...and people who have done it and like the effects.

Experience is always key, but research give you a lot. I mean we all need to start somewhere, right?

Anyone can say something works for them but then when someone else trys it, the exact opposite effect takes place. The internal chemistry of the human body is a complex thing, and no two individuals are alike.

 

[Ubiquitous]

I haven't really read much on frontloading test....it doesn't make sense to me...

But there is a ton of info on front loading other compounds like EQ...and people who have done it and like the effects.

Experience is always key, but research give you a lot. I mean we all need to start somewhere, right?

Anyone can say something works for them but then when someone else trys it, the exact opposite effect takes place. The internal chemistry of the human body is a complex thing, and no two individuals are alike.

Frontloading EQ didn't work for me. Frontloading any long or medium-long ester never had any benefits to me from what I could tell outwardly.

Experience is key, research is paramount... and yes, we all started somewhere!

When I started, I researched and then asked people who had experience. I then drew my conclusions and started the cycle.

Ralph comes off like a smart individual, I wasn't attacking him, just asked how he justified giving advice as a person new to *using* gear.

It's a charged subject for me.

You brought up a very good point that I want to repeat.. Everyone reacts a little differently. Research is huge, but you will learn how things work on YOU, and it may be different than what you expected.

 

[PumpingIron]

"When I started, I researched and then asked people who had experience. I then drew my conclusions and started the cycle. "

Perfect...

 

[hurdlemaker]

Ive decided to go with E3D, gonna inject now...

 

[DecaDone]

Ive decided to go with E3D, gonna inject now...

What are your site rotation plans and what site did you already pin?

 

[hurdlemaker]

What are your site rotation plans and what site did you already pin?

already did left glute, donna do glutes and delts...

 

[TripDog]

Hurdle what up bro...just found yer log...good luck with this one kid.....It makes little to no sence for you to shoot every 3rd day.Thats just retarded....twice a week with enanthate.That is what 95% will tell you..Ur just throwin money away doing it that way.The ester is too long to have any logical reason to do it every 3rd..

 

[PumpingIron]

Wow...i have to say your post was right on the money, Trip...

...or not really so much.

 

[TripDog]

Wow...i have to say your post was right on the money, Trip...

...or not really so much.

huh??? not really so much...i don't get it:think:

 

[Ubiquitous]

huh??? not really so much...i don't get it:think:

every 3rd day is practically twice a week.

You just called me retarded.

Doing it more frequently isn't throwing your money away.. you dose the same amount per week.. it's not like you shoot the same volume, more often. If you pin more frequently, you shoot less per shot.. how can you not grasp that?

I only do it for absolutely stable levels, no fluctuations, and the fact that I rotate some shorter esters in and out alongside. It makes sense to me. I'm not saying more frequently is the BEST way.

I'm still trying to get over you calling me retarded.

 

[TripDog]

every 3rd day is practically twice a week.

You just called me retarded.

Doing it more frequently isn't throwing your money away.. you dose the same amount per week.. it's not like you shoot the same volume, more often. If you pin more frequently, you shoot less per shot.. how can you not grasp that?

I only do it for absolutely stable levels, no fluctuations, and the fact that I rotate some shorter esters in and out alongside. It makes sense to me. I'm not saying more frequently is the BEST way.

I'm still trying to get over you calling me retarded.

Enanthate has a half life of 10-14 days regardless of the dose..Making 5th day the healthy split....Now i think you may in fact be retarded,because in no way did i mention you at all.....Keep the updates comin Hurdle!!!!!!

 

[Ubiquitous]

The whole point was more stable blood levels. Again, did not say my frequency was better. That's like arguing the proper frequency of Sust, or arguing religion to a point.

Regardless, people get away with once a week... I was only stating what I do and why I do it, he can take it with a grain of salt. It did provide a discussion on people's preferences.

You didn't mention me, but you said my way was retarded. Same sh1t.

 

[ralph4u2c]

Enanthate has a half life of 10-14 days regardless of the dose..Making 5th day the healthy split....Now i think you may in fact be retarded,because in no way did i mention you at all.....Keep the updates comin Hurdle!!!!!!

they may be present for 10-14 days but at a level that you can make good gains from it is less than that.

you dont make much sense in your E3D contradicting twice a week, which is basically the same thing. you say you should shoot every 5th day, we say 4th day because that gives you an even split of 250mg = 1cc ... 2x a week ...easy math and for all the other factors mentioned already.

as far as giving advice from an earlier post, personal experience will always be best and supplements work differently for everyone (i think we all know that here) but advice is advice. it should always be taken in, examined, and researched for any good qualities it may have. helps to broaden your knowledge and the way you look at something. for instance, i never thought much of taking HCG at the end of a cycle and to kickstart a PCT until i understood the shutdown of a long cycle and effects of harsh methyl. orals. broadened my horizon, made more sense, understood how it would help (but is also not always needed in some cases). i was merely giving some advice and possible supplements to research since he is running an oral and 12 week cycle, HCG may be something he wants to look into since he isnt fully decided on PCT. also, restore helps to restore natural test levels, keeps coritsol levels low and PCT is very important in keeping gains (along with a solid diet). this is where i read ... many people lose their gains so i would stay focused with your cycle hurdlemaker but make sure you have a solid PCT in place and ready to go. just some advice and showing some love baby.

 

[Travis]

Either way, this log is full of useful information! Thanks all

 

[TripDog]

regardless of how you use it,i think we all agree that it is good stuff..:cheers:

 

[ralph4u2c]

regardless of how you use it,i think we all agree that it is good stuff..:cheers:

cheers mate. i will soon find out (2 days and counting) myself. except i will be running Test Cyp. but it is basically all the same **** (E & C). i just realized that i now have an internet-buddy doing a similar cycle as me and at the same time so we can share thoughts/ideas/tips. :drunk: o ya btw, hurdlemaker your my new internet buddy .... in a manly way of course.

 

[Ubiquitous]

what you said a few posts up, damn well said Ralph. I have to rep you for that one.

 

[DecaDone]

an internet-buddy doing a similar cycle as me and at the same time so we can share thoughts/ideas/tips. :drunk: o ya btw, hurdlemaker your my new internet buddy .... in a manly way of course.

ralph, I'm starting up a test e/havoc cycle in the next few days..stay in touch brotha, I'd like to share some thoughts and tips with ya.

Hurdle, although there was some good insight spread by Ubi and others, sorry for the hijack.

 

[PumpingIron]

Can I go back to the dosing schedule and blood level idea from a few posts back?...

Sorry I went to bed after my last post.

...think of it this way. You shoot 250mgs on day one and you shoot 250mgs on day 3.5...exactly twice a week.

Both of those are going to hit in 10-14 days from the shot, so in 10-14 days you get 250mgs and in 20-28 days you get another 250mgs...No say you shoot 150mls every other day...150mgs will hit in 10-14 days, another in 12-16, another in 14-18, another in 16-20, and so on from that first shot.

The idea being it is a more stable level of test. You're not throwing money away. Except on pins. But in the long run you are cutting down on sides that are based on hormone flux.

Sorry for the hijack, I just wanted to make my point from above.

 

[hurdlemaker]

whats up tripdog, also everyone my post cycle theray will be very intense, i am a firm believer in a strong post cycle therapy, whats the point of gaining all that muscle if u dont keep it? and i think im gonna go with 250mg E3D, thats 625 per week for 12 weeks, which is perfect because thats exactly how much enanthate I have. Dont worry about any of the hijacking, everyone is providing usefull information. And yes this is my first injectible cycle, but i have done oral cycles before, I injected my delt last night (well my gf did). It hurt a lil more going in than the glute did but a few of my buddies told me it doesnt get as sore as the glute, so we will see...Also strength and endurance were up in the gym last night, I couldnt really tire my muscles out. Also, I had read that the half-life of enanthate was 8 days...