RA's LMG/BOLD/Halo/M14ADD/Winz run from hell!

RisingAgainst

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Basically, a rough cycle, don't try this one at home kids. Don't do drugs, they f*ck with your d*ck. I am 3 days into this cycle so far, here's the breakdown.:cheers:


Week 1:
BOLD @ 600mgs
Winztrol @ 250mgs
ErgoMAX LMG @ 30mgs

Week 2:
BOLD @ 600mgs
Halo @ 60mgs
M14ADD @ 105mgs

Week 3:
BOLD @ 600mgs
Halo @ 80mgs
M14ADD @ 140mgs


Week 4:
BOLD @ 600mgs
Halo @ 80mgs
M14ADD @ 140mgs


Week 5:
BOLD @ 600mgs
Halo @ 80mg
M14ADD @ 140mgs

Week 6:
BOLD @ 600mgs
Winztrol @ 250mgs

There are other possibilities, but I am listing the 'for-sure' things at the moment.

Supporting Supplements:
SAMe 400mgs, once daily, during and post cycle
Glucosamine/Chondroitin Started with Methyl Drol, stopped during post cycle therapy
Hawthorne Berry 1100mgs twice daily, started 2 weeks prior, 550mgs during post cycle therapy
Saw Palmetto 1100mgs twice daily, started 1 week prior, 550mgs during post cycle therapy
Policosanol 40mgs daily during cycle, 20mgs post
N-Acetyl-Cysteine at 1.5 grams/day on cycle, .75 grams/day post
MAN Vaporize
Garlic
Multivitamin

post cycle therapy:
ALRI – Bad Ass Mass
AX – Hyperdrol X2
AX – Retain Version 2
MN - X Factor
Palo Alto Labs - Paravol
Axis Labs SMASH
SNS - CVM Extreme

This cycle will be ran with a bulking diet; I plan on ingesting between 4000-4500 calories per day, with a
macro breakdown like this:
~350-380 grams of protein/day
~350-380 grams of carbohydrates/day
~100-150 grams of fat/day

The majority of fat will come from peanut butter, fish, meats, nuts, olive oil, and dairy.

The majority of carbohydrates will come from oatmeal, whole wheat breads, whole wheat pastas,
Cytosports’ Cytocarb II, fruits, vegetables, beans, several kinds of potatoes, and dairy.

The majority of protein will come from protein shakes, fish, chicken, beef, pork, lamb, eggs, and dairy.

There is much much more to this cycle that I have yet to post, this is just a rough outline.

Any comment and/or questions are welcome!
 
bLacKjAck.

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Haha, much better my friend!!

Lookin forward to this one bro.
 
mmowry

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lol just had to try and one up me didnt ya lol
V00D00 no sarcasm or anger?:think: Youre slippin my man! :D


Ill be following the log also,good luck!
 
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V00D00 no sarcasm or anger?:think: Youre slippin my man! :D


Ill be following the log also,good luck!
ra is a friend of mine, so he gets enough of it on aim. i only have sarcasm and anger towards those who tell me what im doing is wrong without backing. ;)

oh and just a heads up mmowry Ra and I are competing for most lean weight gained in a cycle. Hes got a tougher road to run though as hes running more wet than my tren/m14add/halo bit.
 
mmowry

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Well best of luck to you both!
 
RisingAgainst

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Thanks, but yes... the wetness will be fun to deal with, I'm sure. But I think in the end, Voo will have a hard enough time trying to win. If I don't win during cycle, the gains I make during PCT will push me over the top, there's an exact 30 pound weight difference between us, I'm hoping to close that gap somewhat.
 
RisingAgainst

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Tonight concludes day 3, I am beyond dried out. Winztrol has dried out my joints DESPITE the use of cissus, extreme amounts of water and fish oils. I have added glucosamine and chondroitin to the mix in hopes to counter this somewhat. Aside from this, I have made small strength gains that I attribute to the Incarante, not the cycle. In my eyes, incarante is one of the best products I have tried in terms of simplicity and function. So far, so good, more to come folks.
 
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Well i think RA will win but who knows...anyway, i would have put the zol and lmg last.
 
RisingAgainst

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Well i think RA will win but who knows...anyway, i would have put the zol and lmg last.
I would have to if I had had the opportunity :( But thanks for the confidence in me! lol I have a feeling it will be close, but with BOLD increasing my appetite like it has been, I am hoping to skate by. (Voo already eats like a horse due to his metabolism)
 
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Im interested to see how this goes. Good Luck!
 
RisingAgainst

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209 today!!! Up from 204 starting weight, that's one pound ahead of Voo! I subtracted 2 pounds for clothing/shoes on this one as well, so its very approximated.
 
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Not much to say about the workout from earlier, but I am still dealing with the left elbow/wrist pain a bit, it has lessened a little, not enough to push shoulders as hard as I would have liked to. Aggression is unbelievable. I am almost 100% that it can be linked directly to the winztrol. I am going to leave it for a few more days, but if things worsen anymore than they have, which I highly doubt possible, I will be sending winztrol to 'fishbowl heaven' along with my next bowel movement. lol. :smite:
 
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Today is cycle day 7. I am very dried out from the winztrol, but still doing alright. So far, strength increases are all I have noticed, body composition has yet to change. Some slight muscle hardness, but I don't expect to much just yet anyways. Not tomorrow, but next Monday I will start the double methyl portion of this cycle and drop both the LMG and Winz. Let's see how far I can push it this time around.
 
bLacKjAck.

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Looks great dude! --- Most def. following this one out to the end! Keep it up!
 
RisingAgainst

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Well, today was the first day of Halo/M14ADD, gotta tell ya, the chest workout tonight had to be the most amazing thing I have ever experienced! Although it's not from the M14ADD/Halo yet, It was very good nonetheless, I suspect BOLD had a hand in it.
 
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OHH boy... 450x8 for 3 sets on rows tonight, that's a PR. Had an extremely good back workout tonight. Loving IT!
 
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wonder if you have a video of that..
Eh.. I barely got a camera phone.. LOL I'm really not that good with tech stuff. I've been using 410-450 for the last 4 months though if you are saying "holy crap that's an ass load of weight"... The reps just havent been there.
 
Ubiquitous

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That is a lot of weight to do a proper BB row with. ****, a lot of big boys would have trouble doing a single ugly bb row with that weight. I'm not necessarily doubting you, but 450X8 for 3 sets is serious.
 
RisingAgainst

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That is a lot of weight to do a proper BB row with. ****, a lot of big boys would have trouble doing a single ugly bb row with that weight. I'm not necessarily doubting you, but 450X8 for 3 sets is serious.
Well, I'm definitely glad you think so man! lol
 
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Meh.. Legs/Shoulders are stuck at the same weight, maybe a couple reps per exercise so far. Big difference in muscle hardness, vascularity and attitude.. Since the start of this thing I have been very aggressive and cocky, I am starting to mellow out a bit.
 
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Meh.. weight is at 210, I am slowly going up, but I should mention that I have seen a slight decrease in belly fat, but not before what looked like a pile of water weight stored. hmmm. Anyways, tonight is arms, I will report back later and make some notes from there.
 
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Meh, I'm back in hell already. I have that sick-to-my-stomach feeling I get when I run wet phs.. Anybody know if this is due to E conversion or maybe an imbalanced PH level? If somebody smokes, burps, farts, cooks certain foods, or anything else that has a distinct smell, I gag nonstop for a half hour.... Happens everytime I run a wet PH...
 
Dr_C2

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Meh, I'm back in hell already. I have that sick-to-my-stomach feeling I get when I run wet phs.. Anybody know if this is due to E conversion or maybe an imbalanced PH level? If somebody smokes, burps, farts, cooks certain foods, or anything else that has a distinct smell, I gag nonstop for a half hour.... Happens everytime I run a wet PH...
This s just my opinion but it should not have anything to do with estrogen conversion. M1,4-ADD is a diol configured precursor to boldenone. The ph itself cannot convert to estrogen. It is possible that once the ph has converted to boldenone in your body that some estrogen conversion could occur. Again, the amount of conversion then is **very low**

This is a new one for me. I'll do some research and try to follow up.
 
RisingAgainst

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This s just my opinion but it should not have anything to do with estrogen conversion. M1,4-ADD is a diol configured precursor to boldenone. The ph itself cannot convert to estrogen. It is possible that once the ph has converted to boldenone in your body that some estrogen conversion could occur. Again, the amount of conversion then is **very low**

This is a new one for me. I'll do some research and try to follow up.
Also happened VERY bad with M1A... Like to the point of dropping the cycle early and starting PCT... M14ADD converts to Dianabol at a 15% conversion rate doesnt it?? err.. wait a tic.. this explains your naming a bit better... hmmm well, get back to me on that as well if you would do so kindly. If anybody else has thoughts on this 'morning sickness like' crap, please let me know.
 
Ubiquitous

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Chest supported.
Ohhhh, I had mentioned I thought they were Barbell Rows. That's a little different.

Still, that's 10 plates on a chest supported row....??.....??

I'd be very interested in seeing a 210lb guy T-bar row 10 plates 8 times for 3 sets. ;)


Dr_C2, Dianabol has it's roots in Boldenone.. and is one of the wettest compounds around. Just because the base hormone doesn't have such sides, does not mean the designer won't.
 
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Well fellas, aside from some good strength gains, some actual size gains on my traps/shoulders/arms, and the nasty pukey, sick feeling, I wouldnt have ever known I was on cycle... It's nice.
 
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Dr_C2, Dianabol has it's roots in Boldenone.. and is one of the wettest compounds around. Just because the base hormone doesn't have such sides, does not mean the designer won't.
Yes. Dbol is methylboldenone. M1,4-ADD is a precursor to boldenone that lacks the hydroxyl group and is configured as a diol not a dione. It will convert to boldenone but it does so through differnet enzymatic processes. As such, M1,4-ADD is more akin to Equipoise than Dbol. Eq has a far different level of bio activity than dbol. If you want my complete discussion on the subject use the link.

X|S Muscle Supplements - View topic - M1,4-ADD and 1,4-AD is it Dbol or Equipoise?
 
Ubiquitous

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You are referring to Boldenone when you say Equipose. Equipose is Boldenone Undecylenate, and a brand name at that. Call it Boldenone, otherwise how can you compare a long acting injectable to an oral? Perhaps you are dumming it down for people, but it's just a pet peeve. That title should be "is it Dbol or is it Boldenone?"

You refer to your product in that link. You are a proprietor?

Thanks for the clarification in any event.
 
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You are referring to Boldenone when you say Equipose. Equipose is Boldenone Undecylenate, and a brand name at that. Call it Boldenone, otherwise how can you compare a long acting injectable to an oral? Perhaps you are dumming it down for people, but it's just a pet peeve. That title should be "is it Dbol or is it Boldenone?"

You refer to your product in that link. You are a proprietor?

Thanks for the clarification in any event.
Yes and Yes. If you want further clarification email or pm me.
 
bLacKjAck.

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You are referring to Boldenone when you say Equipose. Equipose is Boldenone Undecylenate, and a brand name at that. Call it Boldenone, otherwise how can you compare a long acting injectable to an oral? Perhaps you are dumming it down for people, but it's just a pet peeve. That title should be "is it Dbol or is it Boldenone?"

You refer to your product in that link. You are a proprietor?

Thanks for the clarification in any event.
UBI, you take a break?? Welcome back I guess, havn't seen you in a long time. I remember seeing you post a lot way back before I became a member, good to see ya back.
 
aspire210

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Yes. Dbol is methylboldenone. M1,4-ADD is a precursor to boldenone that lacks the hydroxyl group and is configured as a diol not a dione. It will convert to boldenone but it does so through differnet enzymatic processes. As such, M1,4-ADD is more akin to Equipoise than Dbol. Eq has a far different level of bio activity than dbol. If you want my complete discussion on the subject use the link.

X|S Muscle Supplements - View topic - M1,4-ADD and 1,4-AD is it Dbol or Equipoise?
Funny since m1,4add "feels" much similar to dbol. Bold is also known for being a hardener and fery dry since it only aromatises at 1/5 the rate of testosterone, however, m1,4add gives "wet" gains. I'll go with real world over supposed "science". So when is the methyl cleaved to make it Boldenone in the body? How do you explain the water retention seen in so many users?
 
Dr_C2

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Funny since m1,4add "feels" much similar to dbol. Bold is also known for being a hardener and fery dry since it only aromatises at 1/5 the rate of testosterone, however, m1,4add gives "wet" gains. I'll go with real world over supposed "science". So when is the methyl cleaved to make it Boldenone in the body? How do you explain the water retention seen in so many users?
17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadiene-3-one - methylboldenone (Dbol)

17a-methyl-1, 4-Androstadiene-3, 17-diol (M1,4-ADD)

1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-diol (Boldenone Undeclynate)

Notice the diol configuration in both M1,4-ADD and Boldenone Undeclynate. Also note the additional hyrdoxy group in methylboldenone. Finally, methylboldenone is configured as a 3-one were are M1,4-ADD and boldenone undeclynate share the same double bond oxygen configuration not found in methylboldenone. These similarities and differences are very important in the enzymatic reduction of each compound, particularly M1,4-ADD.

As far as aromatization, M1,4-ADD, again, configured as a diol, cannot aromatize from the base compound. Obviously, I stated in an earlier post that the liberated parent may aromatize but again it is only marginal in as it will do so in about an equal proportion per mg of converted ph to boldenone as would be expected from boldenone undeclynate b/c they follow the same enzymatic reduction process.

As far as what M1,4-ADD "feels" like I would argue that it "feels" much more like equipoise due to the increase in RBC and massive increase in appetite. Then again, "feelings" only matter to the individual in question. I favor actual chemistry myself.
 
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Nice... Anyways guys, just a quick hit update, went to the lake today, ate **** going 50... I have a nice head wound, it's pretty sweet. I look african american now.. lol I'm really dark. Ate like none other all day, enjoyed some babes at the beach, what a sweet day. tomorrow things get serious again, and I will be putting this stack to some REAL use. ;)
 
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Wow.. i've had way better workouts. I think it's due to a bit of dehydration, the lake trip kinda took it's toll. Hopefully things get better as the week progresses.
 
aspire210

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As far as what M1,4-ADD "feels" like I would argue that it "feels" much more like equipoise due to the increase in RBC and massive increase in appetite. Then again, "feelings" only matter to the individual in question. I favor actual chemistry myself.
so explain the water retention that users get from this product then, since boldenone is not known at all for water retention, its actually quite the oppsite. Also, you failed to explain when the methyl attachment is shed.

EDIT: I would bet you would agree that 4ad converts to testosterone, since this occurs naturally in the body anyway. Well look at the structures:
4ad - 4-androsten-3,17-diol
Testosterone - 4-androstene-3-one,17-ol

17a-methyl-1, 4-Androstadiene-3, 17-diol (M1,4-ADD)
17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadiene-3-one - methylboldenone (Dbol)

Seems a lot like 3-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase breaks off an oxygen from the diol, making it an ol. And converts 3 into a 3-one.

Proof that 4ad converts to testosterone (if there is a doubt):
To determine if known androgenic hormone precursors for testosterone in the androgen pathway would be readily transformed to testosterone, eight male subjects [mean age 23.8 (SEM 3) years, bodymass 83.1 (SEM 8.7) kg, height 175.6 (SEM 8.5) cm] underwent a randomized, double-blind, cross-over, placebo-controlled oral treatment with 200 mg of 4-androstene-3,17-dione (delta 4), 4-androstene-3 beta,17 beta-diol (delta 4 Diol), and placebo (PL). The periods of study were separated by 7 days of washout. Blood was drawn at baseline and subsequently every 30 min for 90 min after treatment. Analysis revealed mean area-under-the-curve (AUC) serum delta 4 concentrations to be higher during delta 4 treatment [2177 (SEM 100) nmol.l-1] than delta 4Diol [900 (SEM 96) nmol.l-1] or PL [484 (SEM 82) nmol.l-1; P < 0.0001]. The delta 4 treatment also revealed a significant effect on total testosterone with a mean AUC [1632.5 (SEM 121) nmol.l-1] that was greater than PL [1418.5 (SEM 131) nmol.l-1; P < 0.05] but not significantly different from those observed after delta 4Diol treatment [1602.9 (SEM 119) nmol.l-1; P = 0.77]. Free testosterone concentrations followed a similar pattern where mean AUC for the delta 4 treatment [6114.0 (SEM 600) pmol.l-1] was greater than after PL [4974.6 (SEM 565) pmol.l-1; P < 0.06] but not significantly different from those observed after delta 4Diol [5632.0 (SEM 389) pmol.l-1; P = 0.48]. The appearance and apparent conversion to total and free testosterone over 90 min was stronger for the delta 4 treatment (r = 0.91, P < 0.045) than for delta 4Diol treatment (r = 0.69, NS) and negatively correlated for PL (r = -0.90, P < 0.02). These results would suggest that delta 4, and perhaps delta 4Diol, taken by month are capable of producing in vivo increases in testosterone concentrations in apparently healthy young men as has already been observed in women after treatment with delta 4.

PMID: 10638382 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I prefer ACTUAL chemistry myself as well. Go peddle your products else where.
 
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Dr_C2

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Your analogy is quite parallel in logic. I am very glad to see you are doing your homework on this. There is one important limitation in your comparison. Because we are discussing different target hormones (test, boldenone), there are different reduction enzymes at work here and as a result different intermediates created.

Numazawa M, Oshibe M, Yamaguchi S, Tachibana M., J Med Chem 1996 Mar 1;39(5):1033-8

If you have a different opinion and support it, as you have, with supplemental research, fine. I always welcome those discussions as they only serve to enlighten us all, myself included. I have done this for almost 20 years now and there is not a day that goes by that I do not learn something from someone.

My intention was not to piss you off but I seem to have done so. For that I am sorry.

Since I didn’t answer your questions specifically enough, regarding water retentions et al. I suggest you ask, RA – How is the water retention with the M1,4-ADD you are using?

For that matter ask a few others. Voodoo can give you his opinion as well.

Finally, I have never "peddled" anything here. I responded to a question from a friend who is using one of our products.

In this or any other forum, asides from my own, I have neither referenced my company nor my products.

In fact, I ask those who are using my products to NOT name the company openly. If people want to find us they will.
 
RisingAgainst

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Your analogy is quite parallel in logic. I am very glad to see you are doing your homework on this. There is one important limitation in your comparison. Because we are discussing different target hormones (test, boldenone), there are different reduction enzymes at work here and as a result different intermediates created.

Numazawa M, Oshibe M, Yamaguchi S, Tachibana M., J Med Chem 1996 Mar 1;39(5):1033-8

If you have a different opinion and support it, as you have, with supplemental research, fine. I always welcome those discussions as they only serve to enlighten us all, myself included. I have done this for almost 20 years now and there is not a day that goes by that I do not learn something from someone.

My intention was not to piss you off but I seem to have done so. For that I am sorry.

Since I didn’t answer your questions specifically enough, regarding water retentions et al. I suggest you ask, RA – How is the water retention with the M1,4-ADD you are using?

For that matter ask a few others. Voodoo can give you his opinion as well.

Finally, I have never "peddled" anything here. I responded to a question from a friend who is using one of our products.

In this or any other forum, asides from my own, I have neither referenced my company nor my products.

In fact, I ask those who are using my products to NOT name the company openly. If people want to find us they will.

As Soon as I stopped the LMG the wetness was gone. This stack is very dry, even though I'm mega dosing BOLD in theory.
 
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As Soon as I stopped the LMG the wetness was gone. This stack is very dry, even though I'm mega dosing BOLD in theory.
same here. i was with the guy whos arguing with C, m14add is dbol... or basically so... then I ran the product and this is actually very dry, i have yet to bloat at all.. Im eating my original words.

oh and ive taken cels m14add and believe me I bloat like crazy on the stuff.
 
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same here. i was with the guy whos arguing with C, m14add is dbol... or basically so... then I ran the product and this is actually very dry, i have yet to bloat at all.. Im eating my original words.

oh and ive taken cels m14add and believe me I bloat like crazy on the stuff.
Ditto... lol S'all good man, I'm lovin the stack regardless. Look out for some BIG numbers by the end of this one!
 
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Numazawa M, Oshibe M, Yamaguchi S, Tachibana M., J Med Chem 1996 Mar 1;39(5):1033-8
I'm slightly confused as to why you posted that study. I'm assuming that this is because you think it breaks down into this. I doubt this because the 17a methyl still has to be cleaved for this to occur. 3HSD is the enzyme that converts this ph to an active substance, which is why I used 4ad as a example, since this is how 4ad converts to testosterone. Also, dbol does have a slight ant-e effect, however its metabolite of 17aa-estradiol overcomes this affect due to its potency as an estrogen. Many people have tried m1,4add and many brands have been sold, your is the exception, not the rule. I doubt all of them got it wrong, to me it just seems more likely that there is something else in yours. Not trying to attack you, but when you are the one that was different out of so many others, it might be you and not them. Either yours is contaminated, or everyone else's is/was. Sorry it just seems more likely that the former is true and not the latter.
 
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I'm slightly confused as to why you posted that study. I'm assuming that this is because you think it breaks down into this. I doubt this because the 17a methyl still has to be cleaved for this to occur. 3HSD is the enzyme that converts this ph to an active substance, which is why I used 4ad as a example, since this is how 4ad converts to testosterone. Also, dbol does have a slight ant-e effect, however its metabolite of 17aa-estradiol overcomes this affect due to its potency as an estrogen. Many people have tried m1,4add and many brands have been sold, your is the exception, not the rule. I doubt all of them got it wrong, to me it just seems more likely that there is something else in yours. Not trying to attack you, but when you are the one that was different out of so many others, it might be you and not them. Either yours is contaminated, or everyone else's is/was. Sorry it just seems more likely that the former is true and not the latter.
On the contrary, when CEL made M14ADD, don't you think it was supposed to be a mehtylated boldenone?? Because everyone was sick of taking high doses of 1,4ad and lacking the cost efficiency to do so! The key to this whole thing, was oral bioavailability, which from the looks of it, others failed on, but made good on it by having it still convert to methandrostenalone. Just my .02
 
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On the contrary, when CEL made M14ADD, don't you think it was supposed to be a mehtylated boldenone?? Because everyone was sick of taking high doses of 1,4ad and lacking the cost efficiency to do so! The key to this whole thing, was oral bioavailability, which from the looks of it, others failed on, but made good on it by having it still convert to methandrostenalone. Just my .02
CEL wasn't the first to bring m14add to the market. It was actually out back before prohormones were banned, it was just missed in the new bill and when people realized this it was re-released. m14add came out and was known to be a precursor to dianabol. There are numerous logs on here of people running it years ago, with reports of the similar "feeling" to dbol and the water/strength seen with dianabol.
 

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