Differences in Juggernaut Nutrition WinZtrol Product

[Dr_C2]

All:

I just received several bottles of Juggernaut Nutrition WinZtrol.

Only one of the bottles had a plastic safety seal around the bottle cap. The other three had no such safety seal.

Under three of the bottle caps, there was a foil safety seal. One bottle had a styrofom safety seal.

In three bottles, the capsules contained brownish colored contents.

In one bottle, the capsules contained white powder.

Anyone have any feedback on this product and company.


I made this purchase from EDITED BECAUSE OF SOURCE POSTING.

I will post images later this evening when I get back to the lab.

Be cautious when purchasing this product!

Dr_C

 

[prld2gr8ns]

I was wondering just this in the clone thread. The brownish color really sets me off a bit.

 

[The G Train]

That's kinda weird, I bought 2 bottles of WinZtrol back in december and both had safety seals with white powder capsules.

 

[bLacKjAck.]

Yeh that is odd bro --- never seen that at all.

Always been fine when ordering from JN.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Hmmmmm, now I'm very curious.

 

[Dr_C2]

Pics of the two caps from each bottle

As promised, here is a link to a pic of the two different caps, bottle rim safety seals, and plastic safety seal off of the bottle with white powder in the caps.

The pic is a 10 megapixel shot so it is very hi res - give it a minute to load.

I will be testing caps from each of the bottles in the lab later in the week and I will let you all know what I find.

In the meantime, my lab tech is going to contact both Juggernaut Nutrition and EDITED BECAUSE OF SOURCE POSTING. to follow up.

Dr_C

 

[3clipseGT]

I know that juggernaut has put cissus in there turinadrol and my caps look exactly like that. Maybe they put something herbal in the winztrol there makin?

 

[Dr_C2]

I don't know...

The label still states that the only ingredient is

[3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol @ 50 mg per cap.

Plus, the labels of all of the bottles I received look as though someone slapped the labels on by hand.

Also, the bottles that had the brownish caps had that thermafoil seal under the cap that was hardly glued to the rim of the bottle.

I am really interested now. I can't get into the lab until Thursday, but this could get interesting.

Dr_C

 

[swole210]

Don't they have some herbal in there as well? I think this is why there is the brownish stuff in there. SO iI think it is a mix of the reall thing, and the herbal they added( i forgot what it was:think: ). I was thinking of ordrering this as well, as I had good results with GL's Mega-Zol.

 

[Dr_C2]

update on WinZtrol by Juggernaut

UPDATE #1 - 10:55 pm Monday, April 2nd

I have physically examined the product by separating the contents of the capsule in to two separate piles of brown and white powders. There is no question that the brown powder is a different substance than the white powder and seems to have less of a molecular weight although this may be inaccurate do to exposure to humid conditions (i.e. the powder may have absorb some moisture from the air prior to my weighting it).

It is possible that the brown powder is filler and the white powder is the actual PH. The capsule with the brown powder is a size 0 capsule. That means that the outer dimension of the capsule with the brown powder is 7.65 mm in diameter and 21.70 mm in length. Typically, these capsules can hold a max of 475 mg of dry powder.

Now, the white capsule is a size 1 capsule and is smaller that then the capsule that contains the brown powder. A size one capsule has a diameter of 6.91 mm and a length of 19.40 mm. typically a size 1 capsule can hold up to 350 mg of dry powder.

On my products, I use size 1 capsules. That is pretty standard among PH because of the smaller amount of actual PH put into a capsule (in terms of mgs). The rest of the space is typically filler. I use magnesium stearate as filler in our entire line of PH capsule. I know this substance to be white. I have never seen it any other color.

Ok, I don't know why Juggernaut changed the size and the possible filler in the capsule but there are some very specific physical differences in these two capsules.

Dr_C

 

[stxnas]

They added cissus to their halodrol clone...maybe they did the same to the winztrol instead of adding filler...

 

[Dr_C2]

Could be..

cissus.

That would explain the very herbal smell. Also, recent reserach has shown Cissus to be of some value in oxidation of fat

from an article published in Lipids in Health and Disease 2006, 5:24

"In sum, Cissus formulation administered twice daily to obese and overweight persons with symptoms of metabolic syndrome results in both weight reduction and an improvement in the symptoms associated with metabolic syndrome. It has also shown efficacy in the control and lowering of triglyceride concentrations, total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, and fasting blood glucose. The formulation may also have applications in other metabolic diseases, such as diabetes mellitus"

So, if one were to use WinZtrol as a dieting agent while trying to maintain muscle mass, this would be a plausible answer.

However, I am not willing ot give Juggernaut that much credit yet. As soon as I test it, I'll let everyone know for sure what the mystery filler actually turns out to be.

Dr_C

 

[yeahright]

Dr_C, please stop posting where you purchased this product. Source posting violates board rules.

 

[Dr_C2]

Sorry...

Dr_C, please stop posting where you purchased this product. Source posting violates board rules.

Did so only b/c I have purchased this product from other distributors and never had this issue.

Won't do it again - Sorry.

Dr_C

 

[MystikalSoul]

so did u contact JN about this? and what did they say?

 

[Dr_C2]

Difference in cap count between bottles

Update #2: WinZtrol

As I noted earlier, the brownish caps are a larger size capsule (size 0) than the white capsules (size 1).

Same size bottle for both caps. However, there are only 60 caps of the brownish caps per bottle and 90 caps per bottle of the white powder caps.

The label on both states 90 caps per bottle.

Dr_C

 

[Dr_C2]

Yes..No response yet.

so did u contact JN about this? and what did they say?

Contacted via email this afternoon..no response yet.

Dr_C

 

[Dr_C2]

May be right

on that. Someone else said that their OT from JN looked like the pix I posted earlier in the thread.

Problem is, I already have Epi to stack with it. I need the WinZtrol.

Dr_C

 

[stxnas]

Ugh, this definitely sounds like a mix up of their Zol with their OT...This is really the first blemish that I have ever heard with them though (granted I have only known who they are for about 12-15 months). Could be worse though.

 

[MystikalSoul]

i need to get me some... so keep us updated

 

[Dr_C2]

Follow up...

as of this morning, still no word from the company.

:think:

Dr_C

 

[Dr_C2]

OK, everyone, I just spoke with a representative of distributor from whom I purchased my JN WinZtrol.

First, let me say I have ***complete*** confidence in this distributing company. They have a sterling reputation and they have always provided first class customer service.

The rep with whom I spoke stated that they are aware of the situation and the difference in packing, product coloration, and capsule count is due to a change in JN's outsourced manufacturer.

Now, as far as my order, I bought and paid for 2 90 cap bottles of JN WinZtrol. The distributor sent me 4 bottles - one with 90 caps of the white powder, which I assume to be from an older manufacturing batch run, and 3 bottles of 60 caps of the brownish powder. That means, I actually got 270 caps when I paid for 180 caps. Call that a baker's dozen!

The rep also assured me that the mg dosages per cap are the same.

Great job on the part of the distributor to handle this situation in a professional manner!

JN reps should come out and make some kind of statement as well. That would really help their goodwill in the community.

Dr_C

 

[stxnas]

Thanks for the feedback! Great to hear that they did you right.

 

[MystikalSoul]

so the new Winztrol bottles are only gonna be 60 pills? and did they they u what the brown stuff actually is?

 

[njt11]

I've literally been freaking out through this thread reading, thinking I have been stacking OT w/ TST instead of Winztrol (On a Cut! so yes it kind of sucks). I got to the last post about the count/color difference and checked my bottle. Sure enough, there is only 60 caps in there, even though both the company I purchased it from AND the label read 90 caps. Is there anything I can do? Im already 7 days into my cycle and really NEED those extra 30 pills. Who would I contact? ugh, I knew the bottle looked like it had less than it should, just thought it was my eyes deceiving me.

 

[MystikalSoul]

yeah me 2 i ordered 2 bottles 90ct and im worried that im gonna lose 60 pills? what should we do

I've literally been freaking out through this thread reading, thinking I have been stacking OT w/ TST instead of Winztrol (On a Cut! so yes it kind of sucks). I got to the last post about the count/color difference and checked my bottle. Sure enough, there is only 60 caps in there, even though both the company I purchased it from AND the label read 90 caps. Is there anything I can do? Im already 7 days into my cycle and really NEED those extra 30 pills. Who would I contact? ugh, I knew the bottle looked like it had less than it should, just thought it was my eyes deceiving me.

 

[yeahright]

yeah me 2 i ordered 2 bottles 90ct and im worried that im gonna lose 60 pills? what should we do

I'd contact the company you purchased it from. Explain that the product doesn't meet label claims and that you've spoken with other people who have the same problem (so they know you're not just an idiot trying to scam them). A stand-up company will offer a refund or substitute product and then take it out on the wholesaler who sold them the product.

 

[Dr_C2]

I would call the distributor from who you purchased you JN WinZtrol.

I purchased mine from a very reliable web based outfit that I trust.

They were very upfront about it on the phone this morning and told me that is why they sent me 4 bottles when I only order 2.

I can't say that every distributor will be as professional, but I would start with the distributor.

First, don't go into a long spiel about the color and capsule size, just tell them "Hey, the label say 90 caps and I only got 60!" See if they are willing to make it right.

Now, the distributors may try to blame JN. Do not go off the deep end b/c your distributor was most likely in the dark on this one too. They, themselves, probably just took JN and the label at face value. Think about it, why would they not. No one has ever had a problem with JN before! JN - that's really who is at fault here. So, if you get nowhere with your distributor, email JN or call them if you can find a number. I haven't yet but if I find one I'll post it. I have emailed already and I have not received a response. Right now, I am quickly losing the small amount of confidence that I had in JN.


Dr_C

 

[MystikalSoul]

hey Dr i need to talk with u to see if we got from the same place.. i cant pm here, whats your email

 

[Dr_C2]

hey Dr i need to talk with u to see if we got from the same place.. i cant pm here, whats your email

[email protected]

Dr_C

 

[njt11]

Alright thanks for the help, actually right after I posted I contacted the company I purchased it from. Customer service was better than expected. I explained to him the situation he told me they got mixed up for a day or two and there should have actually been 2 bottles in there with a note explaining the situation. He said he'd take care of it, send me another 60ct bottle, and they'd ship ASAP. Just got back from the gym now, checked email and my order was shipped. Not only that, I get an extra 30 pills so it looks like I get to bump to 250mg :head:

 

[Dr_C2]

Alright thanks for the help, actually right after I posted I contacted the company I purchased it from. Customer service was better than expected. I explained to him the situation he told me they got mixed up for a day or two and there should have actually been 2 bottles in there with a note explaining the situation. He said he'd take care of it, send me another 60ct bottle, and they'd ship ASAP. Just got back from the gym now, checked email and my order was shipped. Not only that, I get an extra 30 pills so it looks like I get to bump to 250mg :head:

Super! Most of the quality e-tailers are going to step up on this one and rectify the problem.

As I wrote in a previous post, JN needs to step up as well and explain the situation to its consumers if they want to maintain goodwill in the community. JMO but that's how I'd handle it.

Dr_C

 

[njt11]

Super! Most of the quality e-tailers are going to step up on this one and rectify the problem.

As I wrote in a previous post, JN needs to step up as well and explain the situation to its consumers if they want to maintain goodwill in the community. JMO but that's how I'd handle it.

Dr_C

Did you ever find out for sure why the powder is now brown instead of white? Was it cissus? Or an herbal filler?

 

[Dr_C2]

Did you ever find out for sure why the powder is now brown instead of white? Was it cissus? Or an herbal filler?

I don't have an exact answer yet but I have confirmed that there is indeed a compound in the capsule that by preliminary analysis seems to be [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol.

In the one cap tested so far there was almost 65 mg of [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol. However, that could be an off a little bit.

The brown powder is still an unknown as of tonight. I hope to know by tomorrow afternoon.

**Most manufacturers** use magnesium sterate b/c it is a cheap filler that creates a nice flow through encapsulating equipment. Plus, it is bright white in color so it tends to blend nicely from a visual perspective with a lot of compounds that are also white in color.

Regardless, I believe that the product is OK, HOWEVER JN has some 'splaining to do as to the variations.

FYI...I have emailed them several times now to no avail.

I'll say it again, JN rep...STEP UP and reassure your customers!

Dr_C

 

[njt11]

I don't have an exact answer yet but I have confirmed that there is indeed a compound in the capsule that by preliminary analysis seems to be [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol.

In the one cap tested so far there was almost 65 mg of [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol. However, that could be an off a little bit.

The brown powder is still an unknown as of tonight. I hope to know by tomorrow afternoon.

**Most manufacturers** use magnesium sterate b/c it is a cheap filler that creates a nice flow through encapsulating equipment. Plus, it is bright white in color so it tends to blend nicely from a visual perspective with a lot of compounds that are also white in color.

Regardless, I believe that the product is OK, HOWEVER JN has some 'splaining to do as to the variations.

FYI...I have emailed them several times now to no avail.

I'll say it again, JN rep...STEP UP and reassure your customers!

Dr_C

Thanks for all the help bro. Keep up all updated!

 

[Dr_C2]

Final update, the brown powder is an herbal filler. Since I don't have a profile to compare it to I cannot tell you exactly what it might be. I do have someone trying to run that analysis for me but they do not for me and are not in my lab so it may take a while.

Some folks in this forum suggested that the brown powder may be cissus and that is a very plausable suggestion.

Again, I DO BELIEVE that the WinZtrol is OK TO USE based on my analysis and the reassurances from the distributor. As I said, the distributor's story on the brown powder fits with what I have also come up with through my analysis.

Still no work from JN.

If anyone has any questions, you can email me at [email protected]. I'll do my best to answer.

Dr_C

 

[MystikalSoul]

thx for keeping us informed Dr C

 

[kjkriston]

Just opened my winZtrol and mine are brown too...I have no reason to think badly of JN but it would be nice to know what else is in it and how much.

 

[kjkriston]

Bump to any new info on this.....?

 

[swole210]

I'll back that up with another BUMP! ???

 

[Dr_C2]

Just opened my winZtrol and mine are brown too...I have no reason to think badly of JN but it would be nice to know what else is in it and how much.

I think JN has decided not to opine on the situation. I have yet to receive any response to the several attempts at contact.

I can tell you that GC has confirmed that there is PH most likely [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol in the several caps tested.

I do not have an answer for the brown filler. It is very odd b/c it has become almost customary to use magnesium sterate as the PH filler - its pure white like most PHs, it creates very even flow through encapsulation equipment and it is cost effective.

Anecdotally, several folks who have used the product in the past report no difference with the brownish version.

I wish I had more to share...

 

[swole210]

I think JN has decided not to opine on the situation. I have yet to receive any response to the several attempts at contact.

I can tell you that GC has confirmed that there is PH most likely [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol in the several caps tested.

I do not have an answer for the brown filler. It is very odd b/c it has become almost customary to use magnesium sterate as the PH filler - its pure white like most PHs, it creates very even flow through encapsulation equipment and it is cost effective.

Anecdotally, several folks who have used the product in the past report no difference with the brownish version.

I wish I had more to share...

Thanks for the update! So it might still be good then, hmmm.........

 

[kjkriston]

Appreciate the info

 

[RisingAgainst]

Allow me to make this clear, that I do not represent JN in any way, but I do happen to know about this problem to a fairly detailed extent. The problem, as mentioned was a change in manufacturing. All winztrol bottles were pre-filled with an accidental 60 caps and shipped. Vendors should have sent notices or extra bottles to compensate, this was at JN's expense. The new batch will also be brownish colored, but will have 90 caps in a different sized bottle from my understanding.

 

[yeahright]

Allow me to make this clear, that I do not represent JN in any way, but I do happen to know about this problem to a fairly detailed extent. The problem, as mentioned was a change in manufacturing. All winztrol bottles were pre-filled with an accidental 60 caps and shipped. Vendors should have sent notices or extra bottles to compensate, this was at JN's expense. The new batch will also be brownish colored, but will have 90 caps in a different sized bottle from my understanding.

Do you know what the brown stuff is?

 

[RisingAgainst]

Do you know what the brown stuff is?

The best I can tell you is that I can ask? I can't promise anything

 

[yeahright]

The best I can tell you is that I can ask? I can't promise anything

I'd appreciate it.

 

[quigs]

Do you know what the brown stuff is?

I read somewhere a while back that they are now using cissus as a filler in some of their supplements (including winztrol). I'm guessing that this is what is causing the confusion.

 

[yeahright]

I read somewhere a while back that they are now using cissus as a filler in some of their supplements (including winztrol). I'm guessing that this is what is causing the confusion.

I'd heard that but since RA seems to have a contact with the company, I was hoping he might get a definitive answer.

 

[RisingAgainst]

I'd heard that but since RA seems to have a contact with the company, I was hoping he might get a definitive answer.

Quite the contrary.. I got blown off when I asked... Sorry man, I tried.