Swale's HCG recommendations:

[dmix]

I just read this over at anabolex - seems to contradict a lot of common conventions about HCG. What do you guys think?

Swale's Hcg Protocol - Anabolex Forums

Second question:

Is HCG even necessary for a run of test-enan for 12 weeks, with nothing stacked on it? I've heard yes - and I've heard no, because screwing it up could lead to long-term damage.

 

[idunk42]

If your running just test, then you dont need HCG.

Im in agreement with Swales protocol. Hes a HRT doc, so his ideas are very valid and well thought out.

 

[same_old]

i experimented with a variety of HCG protocols over several cycles, and strangely enough arrived at one that is shared by many other HRT docs (but not swale) - one 500IU shot one or two days before a weekly shot. if i'm shooting 2x/week (and i usually am) then it's one day before every other shot.

works great for me and others, and you dont get the desensitization that swale protocol almost always manifests.

just my 2cc...oh, and by about week 4 or 5 i look down and the question of "do i need HCG?" answers itself

also, 300mg of test cyp/week shuts you virtually completely down by week 3. not sure people realize that...HCG USE ENTIRELY ATTENUATES THIS PHENOMENON....it actually INCREASES natural test production, even when you're juicing. i can dig that study up if u want, or someone else could be so kind.

 

[Ubiquitous]

same, how do you consider 500iu/week in one shot less likely to cause desensitization to HCG use (or more importantly LH response) than the same dose split up into two shots/week (per swale's protocol)? It's virtually the same, but you are taking the weekly dose in one shot.

 

[Skye]

well you don't need it but I tend to like running it for anything over a few weeks. it just makes recovery so much easier. Two to three times a week at 250iu is great. I am not sure were same old is coming from but some people do use 500iu instead of 250. for me 250iu twice a week is fine. good luck

 

[Popa Murph]

Don't mean to hijack..

If one were running short esters and pinning everyday would there be any benefit from including 125iu HCG everyday Vs. 250iu every other day or every third day?

I just figured since hormonal balance is usually favored this might be beneficial.

 

[dmix]

also, 300mg of test cyp/week shuts you virtually completely down by week 3. not sure people realize that...HCG USE ENTIRELY ATTENUATES THIS PHENOMENON....it actually INCREASES natural test production, even when you're juicing. i can dig that study up if u want, or someone else could be so kind.

I assume this goes for test-enan, too - so would you suggest a light run of HCG per week?

 

[same_old]

same, how do you consider 500iu/week in one shot less likely to cause desensitization to HCG use (or more importantly LH response) than the same dose split up into two shots/week (per swale's protocol)? It's virtually the same, but you are taking the weekly dose in one shot.

as longer-term HCG-with-steroids clinical studies arent available (that i am aware of), i assert nothing regarding desensitization. i only report my own observations, and those are rather markedly in favor of a less frequent HCG administration protocol. it just works a lot better for me.

on less suppressive cycles i get away with 2 shots of 500IU a week apart, every 4 weeks or so, repeating until cycle end.

my personal attitude toward HCG use on-cycle is: use as much as is needed to keep your balls in order, nothing more.

i obviously dont care what HCG protocol a person uses, but the less-frequent use has allowed me to "feel recovered" (in terms of libido, mood, weight, etc) 10-15 days after ending LOOOONG cycles, with nothing but SERMS and a mild AI.

 

[warnerve]

does anyone here mix their hcg with test in the same shot? Ive searched various boards and some say it's perfectly fine, others say its an abscess waiting to happen.

 

[same_old]

does anyone here mix their hcg with test in the same shot? Ive searched various boards and some say it's perfectly fine, others say its an abscess waiting to happen.

??? HCG is shot subcutaneously. test is not.

 

[warnerve]

That's what I thought all along, then when I searched around I saw stuff about people saying they did it all in one shot and I got confused, thanks

 

[Ubiquitous]

.....you can shoot HCG IM as well.

You just don't want to mix water (HCG), with oil.... which is what you would be doing if you mix your HCG with most hormone preparations... Sure some have done it, but it's not exactly smart and can lead to a bolus-like abcess.

 

[warnerve]

You just don't want to mix water (HCG), with oil.... which is what you would be doing if you mix your HCG with most hormone preparations... Sure some have done it, but it's not exactly smart and can lead to a bolus-like abcess.

Yep, this is what I read, that it was bad to mix the water and oil. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[same_old]

.....you can shoot HCG IM as well.

makes sense but i always thought the longer HL from SC would create less fluctuation...

the research echoes what one would expect...

this one says IM is more bioavailable, but the sampling time after administration isnt mentioned:

Entrez PubMed

but after 36 hours, more remains if administered SC:

Entrez PubMed

and this is the best one, which brings it all together:

Entrez PubMed

"Compared with IM administration of hCG, peak serum drug concentration was significantly delayed (P = 0.01) and serum half-life was prolonged (P = 0.01) after SC injection; however, T, LH, and FSH responses were identical."

bottom line? as you'd expect, SC shots last longer but produce lower peaks. now the question - which is actually better?

years ago PA had an idea about HCG not conforming to the pulsatile nature of LH and it should be used sparingly...i dont know if he meant that although leydig cells are stimulated to make T, the HPTA quits kicking out GnRH/LH, or the leydig cells become supersaturated by the constant flow of LH (unlike ARs which, despite being used to small pulses of T, can handle a steady stream which probably, to them, just seems like a higher concentration)...anywho, worth looking into.