New Monster Hormone

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
    more like,

    Hemmmmmmmmmmmmmungo.
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    ... Apparently the best way to attach the oxygen at 11 is with the use of bacteria. It's harder to make than most stuff. Bacteria will add the oxygen at 11. Methyltest fermented = 11-oxo methyltest. Then add chlorine at 4.
    Let me just give you guys some insight, since the cat's outta the bag. I've been trying to get this cooked by the best lab in China since August, and they couldn't do it. It's like you said, a mico lab is needed for high yield 11-hydroxylations (the starter), then the C4 is subbed but the 11 is hard to protect for conversion to the ketone later apparently. It was not for a US company but a company in the UK where these things are still in high demand and not legislated. They had to give him his deposit back after 3 months of unsuccessful synthesis efforts, and like I said, they are the best lab I know of, so be careful with this stuff. It may not be what they claim. I could test a bottle of it, but I'm not sure it will last long here in the states anyway. It's clearly an MT derivative and very difficult to defend to the FDA for US sales I'd think. Promoting it as a hemotrophic and not an anabolic is their best argument. I would say get some while you can, but I'm very skeptical it's legit. Like I said, you don't see labs giving back 10,000$ checks unless they really tried and just couldn't do it!
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  3. Question


    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Let me just give you guys some insight, since the cat's outta the bag. I've been trying to get this cooked by the best lab in China since August, and they couldn't do it. It's like you said, a mico lab is needed for high yield 11-hydroxylations (the starter), then the C4 is subbed but the 11 is hard to protect for conversion to the ketone later apparently. It was not for a US company but a company in the UK where these things are still in high demand and not legislated. They had to give him his deposit back after 3 months of unsuccessful synthesis efforts, and like I said, they are the best lab I know of, so be careful with this stuff. It may not be what they claim. I could test a bottle of it, but I'm not sure it will last long here in the states anyway. It's clearly an MT derivative and very difficult to defend to the FDA for US sales I'd think. Promoting it as a hemotrophic and not an anabolic is their best argument. I would say get some while you can, but I'm very skeptical it's legit. Like I said, you don't see labs giving back 10,000$ checks unless they really tried and just couldn't do it!

    Yowza! With that said, assuming this product is what they tried to make it, what would be the projected properties for it?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Let me just give you guys some insight, since the cat's outta the bag. I've been trying to get this cooked by the best lab in China since August, and they couldn't do it. It's like you said, a mico lab is needed for high yield 11-hydroxylations (the starter), then the C4 is subbed but the 11 is hard to protect for conversion to the ketone later apparently. It was not for a US company but a company in the UK where these things are still in high demand and not legislated. They had to give him his deposit back after 3 months of unsuccessful synthesis efforts, and like I said, they are the best lab I know of, so be careful with this stuff. It may not be what they claim. I could test a bottle of it, but I'm not sure it will last long here in the states anyway. It's clearly an MT derivative and very difficult to defend to the FDA for US sales I'd think. Promoting it as a hemotrophic and not an anabolic is their best argument. I would say get some while you can, but I'm very skeptical it's legit. Like I said, you don't see labs giving back 10,000$ checks unless they really tried and just couldn't do it!
    Appreciated...
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. Well, the Vida states that it's over 7x as anabolic as M1T but only 6% as androgenic. Sounds like a winner to me! I'm sure it's dry with 5a-reductase and mild, passive aromatase inhibiting properties. I bet it's a decent cortisol antagonist too. Of course the 11-hydroxy version of this same compound is only 0.3x (or 30%) as strong as M1T which is not that impressive so that makes no sense. There should not be such a large difference in the potencies of these two compounds so one of the reports must be wrong. Regardless if it takes 5 or 60mg as an effective dose, the favorable separation of anabolic and androgenic effects is what makes it a good looking possibility.
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  6. Wow....that would be something!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Well, the Vida states that it's over 7x as anabolic as M1T but only 6% as androgenic. Sounds like a winner to me! I'm sure it's dry with 5a-reductase and mild, passive aromatase inhibiting properties. I bet it's a decent cortisol antagonist too. Of course the 11-hydroxy version of this same compound is only 0.3x (or 30%) as strong as M1T which is not that impressive so that makes no sense. There should not be such a large difference in the potencies of these two compounds so one of the reports must be wrong. Regardless if it takes 5 or 60mg as an effective dose, the favorable separation of anabolic and androgenic effects is what makes it a good looking possibility.
    doc - you mean MT, not M1T, right?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    doc - you mean MT, not M1T, right?
    I'm pretty sure he meant M1T

  9. So SFR is going to make another Orastan-A -> 5a-androstano[2,3-c] furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether) analogue? It's interesting that there really still is not much info available on OrastanA and only a handful of studies on Furazabol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Rumor is SFR also plans to produce a C17b-carbonate ester version of furazabol (17-alpha-methyl-5-alpha-androsta-2,3-furazan,17b-ol). It will be a non-methyl, non-toxic. This is another thing that IS NOT coming from China.

  10. I think me meant to say "MT" as in methyltestosterone, not "M1T". M1T has an anabolic rating of around 900-1600 I think, so if it was M1T then that means that this compound would be 7x as anabolic as M1T. 7 X (900-1600)? I don't think it could be that high.
  11. question for DR.D


    While we're on this subject I have a question regarding Epistane/havoc and SD. SD is said to have a ratio of 20 androgenic to 400 anabolic. It says in this thread somewhere that epistane/havoc has a ratio of about 73 to 1100. Now from these numbers I'm guessing that epistane would be way stronger than SD, but on my SD cycle I gained 15lbs in the first two weeks and that was at 20mg. I see people on the boards running epi at 40mg/day. I don't know if epi is in any way related to SD as to have the same effects on me (both derived from DHT I think?) , but I'm considering purchasing epi and wanted to know since the numbers are better than SD, would it neccesarily give better gains than SD would? Thanks for any input.

  12. Not necessarily since the in vivo effects in humans often differ then the numbers in Vida might have you believe. The numbers is Vida are only relevent to give a comparison of the effects of different compounds in select muscle tissue in rats. While this is an indicator of how it may effect overall body anabolism in humans there is not a direct relationship. It gives an indicator but not an absolute benchmark. The overall action of a compound in a whole organism is influenced by its actions on all other body systems not just on the increase in anabolism in a particular tissue (especially as it was rat tissue).

    Mr.50

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-male View Post
    While we're on this subject I have a question regarding Epistane/havoc and superdrol. SD is said to have a ratio of 20 androgenic to 400 anabolic. It says in this thread somewhere that epistane/havoc has a ratio of about 73 to 1100. Now from these numbers I'm guessing that epistane would be way stronger than SD, but on my SD cycle I gained 15lbs in the first two weeks and that was at 20mg. I see people on the boards running epi at 40mg/day. I don't know if epi is in any way related to SD as to have the same effects on me (both derived from DHT I think?) , but I'm considering purchasing epi and wanted to know since the numbers are better than SD, would it neccesarily give better gains than SD would? Thanks for any input.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-male View Post
    While we're on this subject I have a question regarding Epistane/havoc and superdrol. SD is said to have a ratio of 20 androgenic to 400 anabolic. It says in this thread somewhere that epistane/havoc has a ratio of about 73 to 1100. Now from these numbers I'm guessing that epistane would be way stronger than SD, but on my SD cycle I gained 15lbs in the first two weeks and that was at 20mg. I see people on the boards running epi at 40mg/day. I don't know if epi is in any way related to SD as to have the same effects on me (both derived from DHT I think?) , but I'm considering purchasing epi and wanted to know since the numbers are better than SD, would it neccesarily give better gains than SD would? Thanks for any input.
    i would also like to know how the 2 compare from someone that has experience with both...i love superdrol and epistane seems to be the only thing that may be at the same level in terms of gains (i care about strength more than anything) as of late...

    however it does seem to compare closest with anavar from reading the logs

  14. So many compounds, so little liver left.
    Heck, I'm still eyeing the Sostenol 250 on my shelf!

    Hee-hee!


  15. Quote Originally Posted by Joint Fracture View Post
    So many compounds, so little liver left.
    Heck, I'm still eyeing the Sostenol 250 on my shelf!

    Hee-hee!

    Well if you use the sostenol, you'll be using half of these new compounds all at once

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Popa Murph View Post
    I'm pretty sure he meant M1T
    actually i was being sarcastic - i know for a fact he meant MT, for the reasons Alpha-Male gave. i dont know why he kept saying M1T...anywho

  17. Quote Originally Posted by DeerDeer View Post
    So SFR is going to make another Orastan-A -> 5a-androstano[2,3-c] furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether) analogue? It's interesting that there really still is not much info available on OrastanA and only a handful of studies on Furazabol.
    Yes, a lot like Gaspari Orastan-A. It was never sold here in the U.S. though.


    As for the other questions about A:A and a comparison between SD and Epi - well, the numbers arent the entire story. You cant base how a compound will behave in the body based only on these numbers (as others have said).

    In terms are sheer gains, I'm not sure Havoc "surpasses" SD. Then again, I ran it at 20mg/day but did jump to 30 for a short time to check it out. All things considered though, Epistane (Havoc) is by FAR the best choice. The gains are VERY close at 30mg/day+. The sides are nothing compared to SD (literally). Its a much cleaner choice. SD will jack your lipids in no time flat and is more hepatoxic. Havoc is likely the easiest on your body compared to all the other choices and you still get gains equal to PP and SD.

    I have a few bottles of PP and SD left and its hard to validate using them now that Havoc is out. I dont know what I will do with them. I have a extra Halodrol-50 for memory sake (lol) and some Trenadrol I never even tested out. How was it anyway? Its the same as Methoxy-TRN but I never ran that either. Maybe I should start a collection of retired legal methyls and put them all in a glass case with a Hall of Fame plaque.
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Yes, a lot like Gaspari Orastan-A. It was never sold here in the U.S. though.


    As for the other questions about A:A and a comparison between superdrol and Epi - well, the numbers arent the entire story. You cant base how a compound will behave in the body based only on these numbers (as others have said).

    In terms are sheer gains, I'm not sure Havoc "surpasses" SD. Then again, I only ran it at 20mg/day. All things considered though, Epistane (Havoc) is by FAR the best choice. The gains are VERY close at 30mg/day+. The sides are nothing compared to SD (literally). Its a much cleaner choice. SD will jack your lipids in no time flat and is more hepatoxic. Havoc is likely the easiest on your body compared to all the other choices and you still get gains equal to PP and SD.

    I have a few bottles of PP and SD left and its hard to validate using them now that Havoc is out. I dont know what I will do with them. I have a extra Halodrol-50 for memory sake (lol) and some Trenadrol I never even tested out. How was it anyway? Its the same as Methoxy-TRN but I never ran that either. Maybe I should start a collection of retired legal methyls and put them all in a glass case with a Hall of Fame plaque.

    so to you... the top 3 (in terms of mass/strength gain) in the last 2 years would look something like....

    1) epistane
    2) superdrol
    3) pheraplext

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Tom 185 View Post
    so to you... the top 3 (in terms of mass/strength gain) in the last 2 years would look something like....

    1) epistane
    2) superdrol
    3) pheraplext
    Ya, all things considered. (sides, health, etc.)

    It all depends on dose too. Havoc doesn't compare to SD until you hit 30mg/day+ so you have a lot of flexibility. You really cant (shouldn't) run SD over 2-4 weeks. With Epistane, I wouldn't flame someone for going 5-7 (although I wouldnt advise it either ).

    Dont forgot H-50 (original). It bloated me a lil but I felt ****ing fantastic on that stuff (sort of like dbol). I would put it up there equal with PP. If I recall I was bulking and eating a **** load of sodium which didnt help (chinese food addict). There is no excuse for a poor diet at any phase but that was fun times. High cals, lil bloated...awesome strength. Lifting is half the fun when dieting IMO.
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  20. yea i never cared to try halodrol

    i have tons of SD and PP although ive never run PP either...and now after hearing about hair loss from several people i'm scared to try it

    SD is amazing

    right now i am deciding between sd and epistane to end my 14 week test enanthate cycle....started with dbol as well

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Tom 185 View Post
    yea i never cared to try halodrol

    i have tons of superdrol and PP although ive never run PP either...and now after hearing about hair loss from several people i'm scared to try it

    SD is amazing

    right now i am deciding between superdrol and epistane to end my 14 week test enanthate cycle....started with dbol as well
    For me, Epistane has been every bit as hard on hair as PP was. On paper, it is less androgenic though. I had no other androgenic sides. I never really do with these new designers though. All I ever notice is slightly accelerated thinning. I can normally bounce back a lil, but it doesn't help things. I'm prone though... gotta pay to play
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  22. Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    doc - you mean MT, not M1T, right?
    No, I mean M1T. The Vida states it as delta-1-17a-MT. When it's referencing methytest is just says 17a-MT.

  23. I thought it was standard to compare things to methyl-test, not m1t?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    Not necessarily since the in vivo effects in humans often differ then the numbers in Vida might have you believe. The numbers is Vida are only relevent to give a comparison of the effects of different compounds in select muscle tissue in rats. While this is an indicator of how it may effect overall body anabolism in humans there is not a direct relationship. It gives an indicator but not an absolute benchmark. The overall action of a compound in a whole organism is influenced by its actions on all other body systems not just on the increase in anabolism in a particular tissue (especially as it was rat tissue).

    Mr.50
    Yeah, in some studies SD was actually an 800 rather than a 400, so SD was stronger that most think. Still, these studies only give you valid separation ratios. The baselines are up to interpretation bases on the assay used and the baseline assumed. These are rat studies. Rats don't even have a DHT receptor! Oh well, nobody is publishing anabolic research anymore so these old, unstandardized studies are all we have and just a guideline.

  25. Much agreed Dr.D. I just was trying to give my layman's answer to the poster above as to should the Epi be stronger then SD.

    Thanks for the detail on my rudimentary answer my good friend.

    Mr.50


    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Yeah, in some studies superdrol was actually an 800 rather than a 400, so SD was stronger that most think. Still, these studies only give you valid separation ratios. The baselines are up to interpretation bases on the assay used and the baseline assumed. These are rat studies. Rats don't even have a DHT receptor! Oh well, nobody is publishing anabolic research anymore so these old, unstandardized studies are all we have and just a guideline.
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