New Monster Hormone

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    H50 IS tbol for all intents and purposes. isnt tbol the target hormone?
    Don't think so. H50 is it's own compound, not a PH, so there is no target hormone. It is very similiar to tbol but not the same.


  2. This compound will definitely resemble var, and actually might even be a little more mild. Don't expect and mass with this guy.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD View Post
    This compound will definitely resemble var, and actually might even be a little more mild. Don't expect and mass with this guy.

    Ahhhhh, but what to expect? If someone is going to the expense (and risk) of bringing this to market, they've got to believe it will exert an effect people will pay for.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    Ahhhhh, but what to expect? If someone is going to the expense (and risk) of bringing this to market, they've got to believe it will exert an effect people will pay for.
    Nah, people will buy anything, you should know this . Really sit back and look at the products, for instance from Klein-Becker (I think), Testrogel? lol. Do I feel it is a flop like that?

    Dbol: ~50% androgenic/ ~150% anabolic
    Anadrol: ~45%/ ~330%
    Halotestin: ~825%/~1850%
    Winstrol: ~30%/~325%
    Epistane: ~90%/ ~1100%
    Anavar: ~25%/~500%

    Here are some numbers. To have less than half the androgenic value as Anavar? Mass isn't something you would expect from this compound, you would have to stack it with an androgen in my opinion, and heck why even use it since it is 17-aa if you are going to have to stack it anyways, unless you were going to use test or something, but then we get into illegal injectables.

    And they may "feel" it is going to elicit an effect but bro, trust me they are getting it right out of the Vida book because they saw a high anabolic value. And they can hope for the fact the old school numbers are a little off and it is more androgenic than it says.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD View Post
    Dbol: ~50% androgenic/ ~150% anabolic
    Anadrol: ~45%/ ~330%
    Halotestin: ~825%/~1850%
    Winstrol: ~30%/~325%
    Epistane: ~90%/ ~1100%
    Anavar: ~25%/~500%

    Here are some numbers. To have less than half the androgenic value as Anavar? Mass isn't something you would expect from this compound, you would have to stack it with an androgen in my opinion, and heck why even use it since it is 17-aa if you are going to have to stack it anyways, unless you were going to use test or something, but then we get into illegal injectables.

    And they may "feel" it is going to elicit an effect but bro, trust me they are getting it right out of the Vida book because they saw a high anabolic value. And they can hope for the fact the old school numbers are a little off and it is more androgenic than it says.
    Not exactly sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying that low-androgenic steroids don't build mass or are worthless? Anavar, superdrol, and oral turinabol are all low androgenic and people run cycles with all of those compounds. I think OT is actually 0/100 on the chart you are referencing and a lot of people seem to like it.
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  6. Sldge just weighed in on it.

    When Superdrol was first made it cost $20k per kilo. I was told an 11-oh (you guessed right Bruce) compound I was looking at would cost considerabely more then that and that they doubted they could give a purity beyond 10-15% because they would not use bacteria (which would make it very easy).

    My guess is it wont test out to be what they say it will. It will be an intermediate type involved in the process or another cheap oraly active steroid instead. Just like the people who think they are buying real injectable primo usually end up getting low dose test prop.

    When it comes to pump-n-dumps the idea would be spend as little as possible, sell as much as possible in the shortest amount of time so as not to get the attention of the DEA/FDA and get the hell out. There is no money in making such a compound under a shell (which are always traced anyway) company for a quick profit. They would be better off...nevermind not going near that conspiracy.
    For anyone who doesnt know, Sldgehmr is the man behind Designer Supps mdien, m4ohn, and also "licensed" (lol) SD, PP, etc.

    Sldge also said something that I think we all need to keep in mind: As PA said, the higher anabolic ratio doesn't mean you grow X more then another compound. Just that it is anabolic at a lower dose. All of which has nothing to do with how it makes you feel.

    There is a reason nobody else made this, its too expensive and hard to make. It seems more and more like the people who plan to offer it likely just want to make a quick buck and it wont be what it should be.

    All I can say is it will be interesting to see how it really turns out.
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    All I can say is it will be interesting to see how it really turns out.
    i agree. if we were to look at all the pro-steroid pre-release predictions based on structure, we would see a low percentage of accuracy.

    as usual, i will be waiting in the wings for you kids to shell out the dough and try this fella before i consider it...

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    There is a reason nobody else made this, its too expensive and hard to make. It seems more and more like the people who plan to offer it likely just want to make a quick buck and it wont be what it should be.

    All I can say is it will be interesting to see how it really turns out.
    do you think the chinese could make it and also make it cost effectively?

  9. what is the VIDA book and where can I get it?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by b unit View Post
    do you think the chinese could make it and also make it cost effectively?
    It really depends. Their prices are obviously much cheaper than here but depending on the compound it could cost A LOT or a little. Really comes down to mechanisms. If there are good mechanisms out there for the compound then the price is low, but if there is a substituent on the molecule in a position that is not very reactive and their yield is very low then the price goes up.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by b unit View Post
    do you think the chinese could make it and also make it cost effectively?
    One of the issues with this compound is the cost/difficulty to synthesize. It's not impossible but its not as easy as many of the others we have already seen. Apparently the best way to attach the oxygen at 11 is with the use of bacteria. It's harder to make than most stuff. Bacteria will add the oxygen at 11. Methyltest fermented = 11-oxo methyltest. Then add chlorine at 4.

    Sldge:
    From my exp. and this surely could have changed while I was away, the chinese are rarely using bacteria to manufactuer hormones/improve on them. I had begged them to use a similar process for a compound I was looking to do 4 or 5 years ago. They wouldnt even consider it an option.
    BK:
    The Chinese want ZERO to do with bacterial fermentation of stuff like this.
    I did not realize it would be as easy to do as you mentioned but years ago I wanted to get 11-keto/11-hydroxy andros made and was told, as was Matt I imagine, "no thanks, we're not interested in making them" - I can't see the Chinese going out and buying the fermentation tanks and equipment, trying to learn how to do this, so they can make what? 10kg or 20kg of material for one stupid company in Florida on a bombing run?!?
    I highly doubt its Chinese in origin based on what they say. It's probably from somewhere in Eastern Europe, Brazil, or maybe India. Who knows.

    I guess one possibility is that it really is coming from Shionogi (Japan) which would be amazing because they are a huge, legit pharmaceutical company. That is the rumor, BK just doesnt buy it. Most (all) supp companies work as cheap as possible. The raws come from who knows where. They are impure and dirty. Something from a pharma could be great (if it happened).
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  12. Quote Originally Posted by natiels View Post
    Don't think so. H50 is it's own compound, not a PH, so there is no target hormone. It is very similiar to tbol but not the same.
    halodrol is the -diol precursor to OT (tbol)

    halo:
    4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17-diol

    tbol:
    4-chloro-17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-dien-3-one

    both are variations of boldenone, actually, albeit with 2 or 3 additional bonds.

    this new one is not - it's a form of testosterone (again, some very important differences but the foundation of this monster hormone is test)...i wonder if that 11-keto would have been possible with tbol like it is with 17a-clostebol...in any case it would probably be less potent.

    who's got a presale planned??

  13. Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    halodrol is the -diol precursor to OT (tbol)

    halo:
    4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17-diol

    tbol:
    4-chloro-17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-dien-3-one

    both are variations of boldenone, actually, albeit with 2 or 3 additional bonds.

    this new one is not - it's a form of testosterone (again, some very important differences but the foundation of this monster hormone is test)...i wonder if that 11-keto would have been possible with tbol like it is with 17a-clostebol...in any case it would probably be less potent.

    who's got a presale planned??
    DEFINITELY going to throw that bad boy in the IR spec.

  14. Something else worth thinking about in regards to the Androgenic/Anabolic ratio. These numbers(A:A) are not always in line with what measurements users may observe and there is a reason for this, rats.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by size View Post
    Something else worth thinking about in regards to the Androgenic/Anabolic ratio. These numbers(A:A) are not always in line with what measurements users may observe and there is a reason for this, rats.
    so true. binding affinity, collateral activations (ER, PgR), interactions with 5AR and aromatase (will be minimal with this guy), preference for skeletal muscle over other tissues...all play a big part in what the drug does in vivo.

    (i'm sure i left some important dimensions out)

    isnt the vida data based on levator ani (sp) effects on rats?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    so true. binding affinity, collateral activations (ER, PgR), interactions with 5AR and aromatase (will be minimal with this guy), preference for skeletal muscle over other tissues...all play a big part in what the drug does in vivo.

    (i'm sure i left some important dimensions out)

    isnt the vida data based on levator ani (sp) effects on rats?
    Yes, not to mention the fact it was written WAYYYYYYYYY back in the day before computer analysis and well a few other scientific techniques that are obviously more advanced lol.

  17. The saga continues... ima bout to bust it open like a piņata full of methyls.

    Shionogi IS synthesizing this for Spectra Force Nutrition (SFR). If any source could do it (bacteria), it would be Shionogi. They could easily be doing this 4-chloro-11-keto-17a-methyltestosterone "Oxogynox" product.

    SFR's Hemaguno is a simple Epistane product. However, it is an enteric coated yellow oval tab with a white center. This is NOT a cheap 00 cap with dirty white powder in it. This took extra money and time. A new, cheap company would not have done this (and simply couldnt have).

    Looks like these guys get their raws done in the Nichia Pharmaceuticals Ltd.in Tokushima, Japan and then the final pack out with pills/tabs and the bottle in Saitama, Japan at Bushu Pharmaceuticals Ltd. - both are subsidiaries to Shionogi and both could easily do this type of thing. Shionogi also has a large plant in Taiwan.

    Taiwan Shionogi & Co., Ltd.
    Transworld Commercial Center 4F, No.2, Sec. 2, Nanking E. Road 10408, Taipei, Taiwan, R.O.C.

    Rumor is SFR also plans to produce a C17b-carbonate ester version of furazabol (17-alpha-methyl-5-alpha-androsta-2,3-furazan,17b-ol). It will be a non-methyl, non-toxic. This is another thing that IS NOT coming from China.

    Still strange that Shionogi would be doing this anyway. I dont see how it can be that profitable for them. At say, 5,000 units of each, thats peanuts for a large Pharma like this.

    Now for the juicy part. You may ask, "How can a small noname company get something like this rolling?" Well, they answer is - THEY CANT.

    IDS
    531 S. Econ Circle
    Suite 1009
    Oviedo, Florida 32765

    This is a shell brand. They own EST, Webber and another that will go unmentioned. With each evolution they refine and market it better. Mass-Tabs did below average, Webber did a lil better. With ETS they bumped up their game and focused on packaging. With SFR, they are swinging for the fences. They are getting VERY high quality production from Japan, great packaging (ā la H-50), and VERY exciting compounds.

    With products like this, a company tends to protect and insulate itself from negative media attention and FDA action. If they come down hard on SFR it can fade away and a new one can eventually take its place.

    I better get some greenies for this one, I'll stop giving you guys the goods.

    We shall see what the Three Knights of Nomenclature (Princes of Pump) have to say about this one. (PA, BK, MC)



    Disclaimer: everything above is pure speculation of an outside observer. I have no knowledge of intra-company dealings. This post is purely for entertainment value.
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  18. BK a night of nomenclature? Haha no offense but BK is horrible with organic.

    I am interested to see what PA says as I respect him as a good chemist in this field. This all seems a little "out of the way" for such an ingredient.

  19. "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Alpine again."

    the love is there, bro...

    thanks for the info. compelling stuff. i was wondering about hemguno's packaging - very different from other domestic steroid presentations.

  20. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
    more like,

    Hemmmmmmmmmmmmmungo.
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    ... Apparently the best way to attach the oxygen at 11 is with the use of bacteria. It's harder to make than most stuff. Bacteria will add the oxygen at 11. Methyltest fermented = 11-oxo methyltest. Then add chlorine at 4.
    Let me just give you guys some insight, since the cat's outta the bag. I've been trying to get this cooked by the best lab in China since August, and they couldn't do it. It's like you said, a mico lab is needed for high yield 11-hydroxylations (the starter), then the C4 is subbed but the 11 is hard to protect for conversion to the ketone later apparently. It was not for a US company but a company in the UK where these things are still in high demand and not legislated. They had to give him his deposit back after 3 months of unsuccessful synthesis efforts, and like I said, they are the best lab I know of, so be careful with this stuff. It may not be what they claim. I could test a bottle of it, but I'm not sure it will last long here in the states anyway. It's clearly an MT derivative and very difficult to defend to the FDA for US sales I'd think. Promoting it as a hemotrophic and not an anabolic is their best argument. I would say get some while you can, but I'm very skeptical it's legit. Like I said, you don't see labs giving back 10,000$ checks unless they really tried and just couldn't do it!
  23. Question


    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Let me just give you guys some insight, since the cat's outta the bag. I've been trying to get this cooked by the best lab in China since August, and they couldn't do it. It's like you said, a mico lab is needed for high yield 11-hydroxylations (the starter), then the C4 is subbed but the 11 is hard to protect for conversion to the ketone later apparently. It was not for a US company but a company in the UK where these things are still in high demand and not legislated. They had to give him his deposit back after 3 months of unsuccessful synthesis efforts, and like I said, they are the best lab I know of, so be careful with this stuff. It may not be what they claim. I could test a bottle of it, but I'm not sure it will last long here in the states anyway. It's clearly an MT derivative and very difficult to defend to the FDA for US sales I'd think. Promoting it as a hemotrophic and not an anabolic is their best argument. I would say get some while you can, but I'm very skeptical it's legit. Like I said, you don't see labs giving back 10,000$ checks unless they really tried and just couldn't do it!

    Yowza! With that said, assuming this product is what they tried to make it, what would be the projected properties for it?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Let me just give you guys some insight, since the cat's outta the bag. I've been trying to get this cooked by the best lab in China since August, and they couldn't do it. It's like you said, a mico lab is needed for high yield 11-hydroxylations (the starter), then the C4 is subbed but the 11 is hard to protect for conversion to the ketone later apparently. It was not for a US company but a company in the UK where these things are still in high demand and not legislated. They had to give him his deposit back after 3 months of unsuccessful synthesis efforts, and like I said, they are the best lab I know of, so be careful with this stuff. It may not be what they claim. I could test a bottle of it, but I'm not sure it will last long here in the states anyway. It's clearly an MT derivative and very difficult to defend to the FDA for US sales I'd think. Promoting it as a hemotrophic and not an anabolic is their best argument. I would say get some while you can, but I'm very skeptical it's legit. Like I said, you don't see labs giving back 10,000$ checks unless they really tried and just couldn't do it!
    Appreciated...
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche

  25. Well, the Vida states that it's over 7x as anabolic as M1T but only 6% as androgenic. Sounds like a winner to me! I'm sure it's dry with 5a-reductase and mild, passive aromatase inhibiting properties. I bet it's a decent cortisol antagonist too. Of course the 11-hydroxy version of this same compound is only 0.3x (or 30%) as strong as M1T which is not that impressive so that makes no sense. There should not be such a large difference in the potencies of these two compounds so one of the reports must be wrong. Regardless if it takes 5 or 60mg as an effective dose, the favorable separation of anabolic and androgenic effects is what makes it a good looking possibility.

  26. Wow....that would be something!

  27. Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Well, the Vida states that it's over 7x as anabolic as M1T but only 6% as androgenic. Sounds like a winner to me! I'm sure it's dry with 5a-reductase and mild, passive aromatase inhibiting properties. I bet it's a decent cortisol antagonist too. Of course the 11-hydroxy version of this same compound is only 0.3x (or 30%) as strong as M1T which is not that impressive so that makes no sense. There should not be such a large difference in the potencies of these two compounds so one of the reports must be wrong. Regardless if it takes 5 or 60mg as an effective dose, the favorable separation of anabolic and androgenic effects is what makes it a good looking possibility.
    doc - you mean MT, not M1T, right?

  28. Quote Originally Posted by same_old View Post
    doc - you mean MT, not M1T, right?
    I'm pretty sure he meant M1T

  29. So SFR is going to make another Orastan-A -> 5a-androstano[2,3-c] furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether) analogue? It's interesting that there really still is not much info available on OrastanA and only a handful of studies on Furazabol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Rumor is SFR also plans to produce a C17b-carbonate ester version of furazabol (17-alpha-methyl-5-alpha-androsta-2,3-furazan,17b-ol). It will be a non-methyl, non-toxic. This is another thing that IS NOT coming from China.

  30. I think me meant to say "MT" as in methyltestosterone, not "M1T". M1T has an anabolic rating of around 900-1600 I think, so if it was M1T then that means that this compound would be 7x as anabolic as M1T. 7 X (900-1600)? I don't think it could be that high.
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