New Monster Hormone
- 03-27-2007, 07:12 PM
if they dropped the price or upped the mg per pill then it might be worth while.... and IF its still methylated then maybe you should be getting blood done @ that many pills a day.... who knows. be nice if the folks who made this would step up do there own testing and then run some reliable tester logs with blodwork for the community.... then again not everyone cares as long as they make the dollar.
- 03-27-2007, 07:17 PM
mg for mg epi is slighty more anabolic, HOWEVER
hypothetically one could take far more oxy without gettin sick
one could say oxy has more "potential" to be anabolic
look at it like this
from a statistical standpoint d-bol(don't quote me on this) is more anabolic then test in equipotent doses
the thing is you can use alot more test(injectable) then d-bol(due to sides), therfore from a real world stand point test is more anabolic simply cause you an use more of it
here is one more example
high dose avar>dbol
dbol>low dose avar
just depends how deep are your pockets
- 03-27-2007, 07:22 PM
savage i have to respectfully disagree with you, weight gain is not the only true measure of the quality of a compund, increased muscle quality(density) is just as important
03-27-2007, 07:24 PM
quick question has anyone used both ibe and rpn epi, i hope all these controversies clear up, i would love to run epi/oxy (both real) a few months down the line
03-27-2007, 07:38 PM
the only reason youd say you can take more oxy and not get sick is if your assuming its not methylated and then that would also go to say your a/a ratios would go out the window as well making it no where close to epi..... am i incorrect??
03-27-2007, 07:42 PM
in any instance this looks to be highly underdosed and for the economical consumer running something like this and trying to get the typically expected results (specially with what the comp claims) are just far outta reach and not worth the pennies....imo
03-27-2007, 08:10 PM
poppy i was just going by their claims(not mine), and my opion that effects on liver are true but exaggerated i don't think liver problems are biggest concern( i have heard both sides of the methylation argument, and simply am stating what i choose to beleive, i may very well be wrong, that is why when i reomend 5-6 pills i said i am not a doctor, and not to take me for one)(sorry for my insane over use of commas and parenthasies, and overall bad spelling and grammar)
2.You have not used both ,i have, in "my" opinion i prefered oxy(thus far) to havoc i have used both(your epi log is great by the way,I repped you, one of the most usefull iv'e seen)
3. I completely agree with your second comment, but i dont mind paying alot more foor something that i think works, the majority go in the opposite direction
when was your avatar pic taken
03-27-2007, 08:24 PM
i just like to play practical and devils advocate....lol
and as for the log thanks and the pic was taken actually 2years ago almost (juneish 2005) mid way through my first S.D. cycle and ya its also givin me puffy nips for the pic.... the first time i got rid of it with nolva... not so lucky the last time i ran S.D. as it was in my last cycle with a full PCT and now a year later after not being in tha gym i have horrible gyno... but its going.... goingg...... hopefully gone.... thanks to this epi cycle... well see.
03-27-2007, 08:38 PM
In other words, if 3 people take compound XYZ and gain 7, 10, and 12 lbs, we can be confident that XYZ is having a real effect. But if 3 people take XYZ and don't gain but report more vascularity, hardness, etc., then unless they are extremely reliable, experienced subjects then their reports really tell us nothing because it's likely a placebo effect.
03-27-2007, 11:13 PM
one could argue that those that are not at that stage of experience, objectivity, and low enough BF have no business on the sauce. with the obvious exception of athletes and powerlifter who generally take pure androgens.
Im big and lean(most people that know me think im "on"), but the biggest guy i've ever worked out with, easily twice my size cartoon character big, ripped to shreds 575 bench completly raw, and never power lifted in his life(there is no exaggeration in anything i just said) definatley juiced but i can say with relative
certainty, not nearly so much as my self. He was twice my age and had about 15-20 years training. He really had his **** together and some test just sealed the deal, not the other way around like most people. he needed it to get to that size, but i see alot of people on a lot more and they cant hold a candle to this guy
I did not touch anything myself until I had leaned myself down to a 28 inch waist. It was worth it as i gained 24 pounds(glyco/muscle) in a month
if anything i wish i had waited a few more years
03-27-2007, 11:16 PM
03-28-2007, 02:52 AM
if you look for my m-trn log... ah shoot heres a link m-tryin m-trn well in there youll see where i started... summer after i graduated high school (look for blond as bleached hair) and then worked my hardest to get to where i was before i was 21 which i had pretty much leveled out with diet set and im no ***** in the gym... still benched 275 twice before i did anything more then creatine and AAKG and i was only 170 ish... ph's ps's is what pushed me above and gave me the actual look i was going for with solid muscle not just water retention.
your comment on your w/o buddy makes perfect sense and if guys cant get their diet/routine down it wont matter how much shii they throw down their throat or stick in their arm, peck... ect.
03-28-2007, 09:41 AM
03-28-2007, 03:02 PM
"WAIT.......I thought that Cell-Tech was the only DSHEA compliant steroid. Something is fishy here......"
just read this on another forum had to post as it is one of the funniest things iv'e heard in a long time
03-28-2007, 03:25 PM
I'm seeing a number of posts where people are starting to notice something after taking double or triple doses for what that is worth. Pretty expensive supplement if the effective dose requires 2 or 3 bottles to get through a 30 day cycle.
03-28-2007, 03:34 PM
reserving my final judement, but at appropriate dose i'm liking this alot more then epi at this point in time
03-28-2007, 03:37 PM
03-28-2007, 04:02 PM
exactly what me and evan were discussing through pm... should be great... but id also like to see some blood @ effective doses.... who knows if they didnt know about its effectiveness or not but DID know bout the toxicity and thats the reasoning for the lower dose.... just another thing to mull around... although i doubt they knew much about any of it... wish everyone would run alpha/beta/blood sponsored logs like someone else
03-28-2007, 04:09 PM
03-28-2007, 04:55 PM
03-28-2007, 04:59 PM
03-28-2007, 05:12 PM
This is what happens when companies are racing to market with brand new compounds. Are the claims accurate? ... who knows. Everyone in a position to have information has something to loose or gain in most cases. As far as Im concerned, a lot of people have compromised their credibility with all of this unfounded mud slinging and petty rumors w/ no basis. There could very well be some libel going on...
I find it hard to believe that Dsade and RPN would fail to test their product and be selling only a 60% pure one. Although, when pressed for time, CQ could have been sacrificed. I have no idea if its true, but it is hard to believe. If anyone is MORE likely to have rushed in the process it was IBE. They were the ones racing to catch up to RPN and get their competing product on the shelf quickly. Yes, they had the concept previously but had not started full scale production. RPN had a significant time advantage. If I had to pick one, I feel that the likelihood of IBE skimping on QC to get the product out seems the most likely. IBE doesnt seem to have the best rep among industry insiders or some customers. All that oral hexatropin, oratropin stuff they sell is hilarious.
As for Oxyguno - this is another case where the reports just dont add up. I find it hard to believe. These guys aren't dummies. They have been in the industry for a while. I think D may have jumped the gun on the "non-methylated" bit on the forums. I trust Dr. D but this just makes no sense. I'm not saying he made it up, but there could be more to it. It has essentially been said that this is what they intended since its what the label also says. I find it really hard to believe they would let this go to market unmethylated. This is NOT what they intended. The testing is off, the sample is bad, or a portion of their products have a problem. All I know is a novice chemist would know better than to design it like this. There is no way it was meant to be. I hate to think D would report falsely...Originally Posted by carcinogen
OK, so with the "findings" from IBE, I retested the Havoc I have with different parameters on the GC/MS. Essentially starting at a low temp and the increasing the oven temp.
What I did find was that there were two peaks. BUT, with the same molecular weights as the dominant peaks (with the highest being 288). What does this mean? It means that the compound breaks down in the injection port and forms two isomers.
I have seen this happen numerous times in the past (i.e. compounds that have acetates, hyrdroxyls etc).
The owners have reported that Japan simply ****ed up on the label translation. Why else would there be a "17alpha" unless something was meant to come after it (methyl, ethyl, chloro). It doesn't make sense for them to "design" the product like this and I doubt that an entire batch is not methylated without them noticing. As for D's results, I'm surprised and it makes me wonder a bit.
PA has looked at this product briefly with MS (although he hasnt done a definitive analysis). He said he doesn't see anything initially that shows it to be undoubtedly non-methylated. SFR also seems to have a good rep among the numerous people in the industry that I have spoken with.
The ****ty thing about all of this drama is that we, the consumer, dont even know who to trust anymore. We are the ones keeping you in business and now we have to wonder what we are really taking or if we are even being informed accurately. It makes a mockery of the entire industry...
That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2007, 05:21 PM
Alpine I agree with your well thought through logic but then how do you explain the mediocre results people are getting?
Just that the Vida values are not really reflective of in vivo activity?
03-28-2007, 05:26 PM
If you are desensitized by other more androgenic designers or orals this compound would seem very "mediocre." After all, Anavar is quite mediocre but that doesnt mean it is without merit. Some might seek out a compound with such characteristics for a recomp or a lower androgenic (very low!) alternative. You cant compare apples and oranges, I don't know what these people were expecting anyway...
All I know is this bs makes everyone associated with the industry look like fools.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2007, 05:28 PM
I honestly beleive serious conequences from anabolic use has far more to do with the individual then the specific compound used.
They ABSOLUTLEY do exist,
people tend to group the transient sides(androenic sides) with the possible long term ones(heart valve,liver and kidney failure). I think they have very little to do with eachother.
Look at the inserts of any medication they have sides that are typical and those that are "rare and potentially fatal". The first
group will occur in a large percentage of the people using them
and are expected due to the drugs mec of action
the second have to do with an individual's own phisio having a defect that alters the drugs action in the body which can turn a
relatively begnine compound fatal
if you have a history of liver, kidney, heart problems you should'nt be taking this stuff anyway without careful supervision
from a "compotent" physican
most of these compounds have a similar enough mec of action
that if one would get you all of them will, and choice and dosing have little to do with it(to an extent, there is never a reason to do anything in extreme excess as there are no benefits
03-28-2007, 05:29 PM
ok so maybe the dosing is off a bit and the effect is just more suttle? Does that sound about right?
03-28-2007, 05:32 PM
03-28-2007, 05:34 PM
And no, I dont think the "dosing is off." It could be dosed higher. After all, we are the "more is better" underground steroid community right?
That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2007, 05:38 PM
03-28-2007, 06:08 PM
Unfortunatley if you were to do a meta-analysis of peoples(from the forums)conclusions drawn through observations of others(researchers) scientific inquiry about half these supps, they are often just as unhelpful due to fators unknown , and Gaps in logic and abstract thinking(not directed torward you alpine) and we go right right back to ground zero. Neither are often accurate,
we are all here to learn and socialize and most of us find these rediculous logs rather entertaining. in the end of the day we all make are own decisons
and there is only one clown on this board
and he is king
all hail BOBO king of cLOWNS
03-28-2007, 06:15 PM
also my post is relevant, I dont think that double-dosin this compound is dangerous and was supporting my argument with my line of thinking. I was respondin to YEAH Right as he questioned the products saftey
and alpine if you dont like the slow kids then don't take the short bus
03-28-2007, 10:36 PM
03-28-2007, 10:43 PM
03-29-2007, 12:14 AM
it has been about 16 days on oxyguno @5 pills a day...nothing noted yet.I have tried administration with, before, and after meals, as well as an empty stomach..sometimes i take 2or3 pills at once to see if there is a problem with absorbtion. about 4 more days left before the bottle is empty.
03-29-2007, 01:07 AM
03-29-2007, 08:26 AM
03-29-2007, 08:30 AM
I wonder if there were different batches released. Maybe one batch contained the proper active and the other batch was adulterated.
03-29-2007, 11:42 AM
lot number 84124 exp date 2/09 these numbers are located on the side of the box and the bottle as well
bought my at dps nutrition the seccond day after it was posted approx 3 weeks ago.
no side effects except a a gain in weight of my credit card bill.
03-29-2007, 11:48 AM
lanky when I get home tonight I will compare it to the 2 boxes sitting on my shelf. Of course we have no way of telling if my two boxes are good or not because I have not opened them but down the line I am sure I am going to give it a try and then at least we can see if there is any trend between people with the same lot numbers.
03-29-2007, 01:31 PM
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