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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    been on oxy for nearly 2 weeks upped dose last 3 days to 5-6 pills ed. was'nt sure a ouple days ago(just mentioned wasn't feeling much a couple days ago), but now at 5-6 pills a day i an say without a doubt, this oxy is the real , did a crappy ass arm workout and still have a pump the last two days with increased does i am very confident to say this stuff is working i have mentioned before I have done almost every pro-h(will not touch anything after it is banned, however) since 1-t was introduced, many of them more then once the feeling of being "on" is unmistakable. dont think my results will be great as i will run out of pills.

    My advice(i am not a doc, dont take what i say as law)

    buy two bottles run at 5 a day, to yeaild maximum results
    thats a little much on the pocket when there is just as effective a product @ much lower doses and more cost effective as well.

    if they dropped the price or upped the mg per pill then it might be worth while.... and IF its still methylated then maybe you should be getting blood done @ that many pills a day.... who knows. be nice if the folks who made this would step up do there own testing and then run some reliable tester logs with blodwork for the community.... then again not everyone cares as long as they make the dollar.

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    poopy

    mg for mg epi is slighty more anabolic, HOWEVER
    hypothetically one could take far more oxy without gettin sick
    one could say oxy has more "potential" to be anabolic

    look at it like this

    from a statistical standpoint d-bol(don't quote me on this) is more anabolic then test in equipotent doses
    the thing is you can use alot more test(injectable) then d-bol(due to sides), therfore from a real world stand point test is more anabolic simply cause you an use more of it

    here is one more example
    high dose avar>dbol
    dbol>low dose avar
    just depends how deep are your pockets
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    savage i have to respectfully disagree with you, weight gain is not the only true measure of the quality of a compund, increased muscle quality(density) is just as important
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    quick question has anyone used both ibe and rpn epi, i hope all these controversies clear up, i would love to run epi/oxy (both real) a few months down the line
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    poopy

    mg for mg epi is slighty more anabolic, HOWEVER
    hypothetically one could take far more oxy without gettin sick
    one could say oxy has more "potential" to be anabolic

    look at it like this

    from a statistical standpoint d-bol(don't quote me on this) is more anabolic then test in equipotent doses
    the thing is you can use alot more test(injectable) then d-bol(due to sides), therfore from a real world stand point test is more anabolic simply cause you an use more of it

    here is one more example
    high dose avar>dbol
    dbol>low dose avar
    just depends how deep are your pockets
    what makes you think you can take more oxy and not get sick? and what makes you say its even close to epi when @ 20mg i was getting results and your not until hittin 5-6 pills a day ~45mg-50mg how is that close???? and if your trying to quote the vida tables profile or what the label claims for ratios then thats all outta whack as its still up in the air as to wether or not this compound is even methylated?

    the only reason youd say you can take more oxy and not get sick is if your assuming its not methylated and then that would also go to say your a/a ratios would go out the window as well making it no where close to epi..... am i incorrect??
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    in any instance this looks to be highly underdosed and for the economical consumer running something like this and trying to get the typically expected results (specially with what the comp claims) are just far outta reach and not worth the pennies....imo
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    poppy i was just going by their claims(not mine), and my opion that effects on liver are true but exaggerated i don't think liver problems are biggest concern( i have heard both sides of the methylation argument, and simply am stating what i choose to beleive, i may very well be wrong, that is why when i reomend 5-6 pills i said i am not a doctor, and not to take me for one)(sorry for my insane over use of commas and parenthasies, and overall bad spelling and grammar)
    2.You have not used both ,i have, in "my" opinion i prefered oxy(thus far) to havoc i have used both(your epi log is great by the way,I repped you, one of the most usefull iv'e seen)

    3. I completely agree with your second comment, but i dont mind paying alot more foor something that i think works, the majority go in the opposite direction

    ps.
    when was your avatar pic taken
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    poppy i was just going by their claims(not mine), and my opion that effects on liver are true but exaggerated i don't think liver problems are biggest concern( i have heard both sides of the methylation argument, and simply am stating what i choose to beleive, i may very well be wrong, that is why when i reomend 5-6 pills i said i am not a doctor, and not to take me for one)(sorry for my insane over use of commas and parenthasies, and overall bad spelling and grammar)
    2.You have not used both ,i have, in "my" opinion i prefered oxy(thus far) to havoc i have used both(your epi log is great by the way,I repped you, one of the most usefull iv'e seen)

    3. I completely agree with your second comment, but i dont mind paying alot more foor something that i think works, the majority go in the opposite direction

    ps.
    when was your avatar pic taken
    for sure as well my grammer sucks and youll see the same use of commas and parenthasies all through my log lol.

    i just like to play practical and devils advocate....lol

    and as for the log thanks and the pic was taken actually 2years ago almost (juneish 2005) mid way through my first S.D. cycle and ya its also givin me puffy nips for the pic.... the first time i got rid of it with nolva... not so lucky the last time i ran S.D. as it was in my last cycle with a full PCT and now a year later after not being in tha gym i have horrible gyno... but its going.... goingg...... hopefully gone.... thanks to this epi cycle... well see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    savage i have to respectfully disagree with you, weight gain is not the only true measure of the quality of a compund, increased muscle quality(density) is just as important
    That may be true. But very few people have the experience, objectivity, and low enough BF to judge increase in muscle quality accurately. IMO, when there aren't any effects that can be objectively measured (or any effects at all), most people see increased vascularity because they expect to see increased vascularity.

    In other words, if 3 people take compound XYZ and gain 7, 10, and 12 lbs, we can be confident that XYZ is having a real effect. But if 3 people take XYZ and don't gain but report more vascularity, hardness, etc., then unless they are extremely reliable, experienced subjects then their reports really tell us nothing because it's likely a placebo effect.
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    one could argue that those that are not at that stage of experience, objectivity, and low enough BF have no business on the sauce. with the obvious exception of athletes and powerlifter who generally take pure androgens.

    Im big and lean(most people that know me think im "on"), but the biggest guy i've ever worked out with, easily twice my size cartoon character big, ripped to shreds 575 bench completly raw, and never power lifted in his life(there is no exaggeration in anything i just said) definatley juiced but i can say with relative
    certainty, not nearly so much as my self. He was twice my age and had about 15-20 years training. He really had his **** together and some test just sealed the deal, not the other way around like most people. he needed it to get to that size, but i see alot of people on a lot more and they cant hold a candle to this guy

    I did not touch anything myself until I had leaned myself down to a 28 inch waist. It was worth it as i gained 24 pounds(glyco/muscle) in a month
    if anything i wish i had waited a few more years
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    poopy you looked awseme in that avy what was your bf 8-ish
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    poopy you looked awseme in that avy what was your bf 8-ish
    dunno bro ALWAYS been friggin low im a huge ecto.... prob @ my highest right now and youve seen my log.

    if you look for my m-trn log... ah shoot heres a link m-tryin m-trn well in there youll see where i started... summer after i graduated high school (look for blond as bleached hair) and then worked my hardest to get to where i was before i was 21 which i had pretty much leveled out with diet set and im no ***** in the gym... still benched 275 twice before i did anything more then creatine and AAKG and i was only 170 ish... ph's ps's is what pushed me above and gave me the actual look i was going for with solid muscle not just water retention.


    your comment on your w/o buddy makes perfect sense and if guys cant get their diet/routine down it wont matter how much shii they throw down their throat or stick in their arm, peck... ect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants View Post
    your comment on your w/o buddy makes perfect sense and if guys cant get their diet/routine down it wont matter how much shii they throw down their throat or stick in their arm, peck... ect.
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    "WAIT.......I thought that Cell-Tech was the only DSHEA compliant steroid. Something is fishy here......"
    just read this on another forum had to post as it is one of the funniest things iv'e heard in a long time
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    I'm seeing a number of posts where people are starting to notice something after taking double or triple doses for what that is worth. Pretty expensive supplement if the effective dose requires 2 or 3 bottles to get through a 30 day cycle.
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    reserving my final judement, but at appropriate dose i'm liking this alot more then epi at this point in time
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    reserving my final judement, but at appropriate dose i'm liking this alot more then epi at this point in time
    If the product turns out to have value after in vivo testing, maybe they'll reformulate it at the effective dose and keep the price down? The Zol clones that came out all followed that formula.
    Last edited by yeahright; 03-28-2007 at 10:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahright View Post
    If the product turns out to have value after in vivo testing, maybe they'll reformulate it at the effective dose and keep the price down? The Zol clones that came out all followed that formula.


    exactly what me and evan were discussing through pm... should be great... but id also like to see some blood @ effective doses.... who knows if they didnt know about its effectiveness or not but DID know bout the toxicity and thats the reasoning for the lower dose.... just another thing to mull around... although i doubt they knew much about any of it... wish everyone would run alpha/beta/blood sponsored logs like someone else
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopypants View Post


    exactly what me and evan were discussing through pm... should be great... but id also like to see some blood @ effective doses.... who knows if they didnt know about its effectiveness or not but DID know bout the toxicity and thats the reasoning for the lower dose.... just another thing to mull around... although i doubt they knew much about any of it... wish everyone would run alpha/beta/blood sponsored logs like someone else
    Yeah, I'm still a bit spooked by this compound. No one seemed to experience anything at the recommended doses so people starting doubling and tripling it. I don't think anyone has posted mid-cycle bloodwork so these people could be killing themselves for all we know. I guess in a month or two we'll have a broader feedback picture on anabolism with some bloodwork to report on sides.
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    Just stepped off the scale. I'm up 5.8 lbs, and I really think its all muscle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardee17 View Post
    Just stepped off the scale. I'm up 5.8 lbs, and I really think its all muscle.
    whats your dosing been like throughout??? start off low? then ramp up? or all out high? or all out rec? how long you been "on" and what was you work out history right before taking this??? have you been working out? sorry for all the ?'s but there are lots of variables to take into account with a sit. like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D View Post
    Yes, exactly! That's what my bottle says too and that's what the insert that came in the box says too and after testing, that's what it is alright. It has been tested and confirmed to contain just that. See any problems though?

    Like the fact it's not 17a-alkylated! Yeah!! Of course the non-methyl form is going to suck at 7.5mg. No wonder it's not doing anything for people, 100 tabs of this is only like a two day supply at the most, if it's like similar non-methyl compounds. I am not suggesting anybody take 50 tabs though.

    What a rip off! But hey, I gotta hand it to them, it is what they say. lol
    Lots of drama over at BB.com... This whole thing is getting pathetic.

    This is what happens when companies are racing to market with brand new compounds. Are the claims accurate? ... who knows. Everyone in a position to have information has something to loose or gain in most cases. As far as Im concerned, a lot of people have compromised their credibility with all of this unfounded mud slinging and petty rumors w/ no basis. There could very well be some libel going on...

    I find it hard to believe that Dsade and RPN would fail to test their product and be selling only a 60% pure one. Although, when pressed for time, CQ could have been sacrificed. I have no idea if its true, but it is hard to believe. If anyone is MORE likely to have rushed in the process it was IBE. They were the ones racing to catch up to RPN and get their competing product on the shelf quickly. Yes, they had the concept previously but had not started full scale production. RPN had a significant time advantage. If I had to pick one, I feel that the likelihood of IBE skimping on QC to get the product out seems the most likely. IBE doesnt seem to have the best rep among industry insiders or some customers. All that oral hexatropin, oratropin stuff they sell is hilarious.

    Originally Posted by carcinogen
    OK, so with the "findings" from IBE, I retested the Havoc I have with different parameters on the GC/MS. Essentially starting at a low temp and the increasing the oven temp.

    What I did find was that there were two peaks. BUT, with the same molecular weights as the dominant peaks (with the highest being 288). What does this mean? It means that the compound breaks down in the injection port and forms two isomers.

    I have seen this happen numerous times in the past (i.e. compounds that have acetates, hyrdroxyls etc).
    As for Oxyguno - this is another case where the reports just dont add up. I find it hard to believe. These guys aren't dummies. They have been in the industry for a while. I think D may have jumped the gun on the "non-methylated" bit on the forums. I trust Dr. D but this just makes no sense. I'm not saying he made it up, but there could be more to it. It has essentially been said that this is what they intended since its what the label also says. I find it really hard to believe they would let this go to market unmethylated. This is NOT what they intended. The testing is off, the sample is bad, or a portion of their products have a problem. All I know is a novice chemist would know better than to design it like this. There is no way it was meant to be. I hate to think D would report falsely...

    The owners have reported that Japan simply ****ed up on the label translation. Why else would there be a "17alpha" unless something was meant to come after it (methyl, ethyl, chloro). It doesn't make sense for them to "design" the product like this and I doubt that an entire batch is not methylated without them noticing. As for D's results, I'm surprised and it makes me wonder a bit.

    PA has looked at this product briefly with MS (although he hasnt done a definitive analysis). He said he doesn't see anything initially that shows it to be undoubtedly non-methylated. SFR also seems to have a good rep among the numerous people in the industry that I have spoken with.

    The ****ty thing about all of this drama is that we, the consumer, dont even know who to trust anymore. We are the ones keeping you in business and now we have to wonder what we are really taking or if we are even being informed accurately. It makes a mockery of the entire industry...
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
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    Alpine I agree with your well thought through logic but then how do you explain the mediocre results people are getting?

    Just that the Vida values are not really reflective of in vivo activity?

    Mr.50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    Alpine I agree with your well thought through logic but then how do you explain the mediocre results people are getting?

    Just that the Vida values are not really reflective of in vivo activity?

    Mr.50
    Quite simply, this is a mild anavar like compound. It was never intended to be an explosive gainer like superdrol or epistane. Anecdotal reports and logs mean **** to me anyway. Most of these clowns have no idea what they are talking about. Over the years, I have seen logs that were downright hilarious they were so inaccurate and impossible. You guys place way to much faith in 2-3 random dumb****s running a LEET BETA TESTUR LOG

    If you are desensitized by other more androgenic designers or orals this compound would seem very "mediocre." After all, Anavar is quite mediocre but that doesnt mean it is without merit. Some might seek out a compound with such characteristics for a recomp or a lower androgenic (very low!) alternative. You cant compare apples and oranges, I don't know what these people were expecting anyway...

    All I know is this bs makes everyone associated with the industry look like fools.
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    I honestly beleive serious conequences from anabolic use has far more to do with the individual then the specific compound used.
    They ABSOLUTLEY do exist,
    people tend to group the transient sides(androenic sides) with the possible long term ones(heart valve,liver and kidney failure). I think they have very little to do with eachother.

    Look at the inserts of any medication they have sides that are typical and those that are "rare and potentially fatal". The first
    group will occur in a large percentage of the people using them
    and are expected due to the drugs mec of action
    the second have to do with an individual's own phisio having a defect that alters the drugs action in the body which can turn a
    relatively begnine compound fatal

    if you have a history of liver, kidney, heart problems you should'nt be taking this stuff anyway without careful supervision
    from a "compotent" physican

    most of these compounds have a similar enough mec of action
    that if one would get you all of them will, and choice and dosing have little to do with it(to an extent, there is never a reason to do anything in extreme excess as there are no benefits
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    ok so maybe the dosing is off a bit and the effect is just more suttle? Does that sound about right?

    Mr.50
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    I honestly beleive serious conequences from anabolic use has far more to do with the individual then the specific compound used.
    They ABSOLUTLEY do exist,
    people tend to group the transient sides(androenic sides) with the possible long term ones(heart valve,liver and kidney failure). I think they have very little to do with eachother.

    Look at the inserts of any medication they have sides that are typical and those that are "rare and potentially fatal". The first
    group will occur in a large percentage of the people using them
    and are expected due to the drugs mec of action
    the second have to do with an individual's own phisio having a defect that alters the drugs action in the body which can turn a
    relatively begnine compound fatal

    if you have a history of liver, kidney, heart problems you should'nt be taking this stuff anyway without careful supervision
    from a "compotent" physican

    most of these compounds have a similar enough mec of action
    that if one would get you all of them will, and choice and dosing have little to do with it(to an extent, there is never a reason to do anything in extreme excess as there are no benefits
    Thanks for that insightful post that has not a damn thing to do with the topic at hand. Lets keep the clutter on this thread down folks. My rubber sh1t wading boots only come up so high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    ok so maybe the dosing is off a bit and the effect is just more suttle? Does that sound about right?

    Mr.50
    Yes, the effects will be subtle in comparison to something like Epi. But what makes this compound unique is the androgenic/anabolic profile. Christ, you people are slow. What do you want? A high enough dosage of Oxyguno so that it starts to feel like something else more potent? There is a reason there are more oral choices than Dianabol - right?

    And no, I dont think the "dosing is off." It could be dosed higher. After all, we are the "more is better" underground steroid community right?
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
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    Hey take it easy. I got your point if just seems like no one was experiencing anything at 1-3 a day and while it may be overuse problems or lack of knowledge for some I am not sure I believe it for everyone who has taken it so far.

    Mr.50

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Yes, the effects will be subtle in comparison to something like Epi. But what makes this compound unique is the androgenic/anabolic profile. Christ, you people are slow.

    And no, I dont think the "dosing is off." It could be dosed higher. After all, we are the "more is better" underground steroid community right?
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    Unfortunatley if you were to do a meta-analysis of peoples(from the forums)conclusions drawn through observations of others(researchers) scientific inquiry about half these supps, they are often just as unhelpful due to fators unknown , and Gaps in logic and abstract thinking(not directed torward you alpine) and we go right right back to ground zero. Neither are often accurate,
    we are all here to learn and socialize and most of us find these rediculous logs rather entertaining. in the end of the day we all make are own decisons

    and there is only one clown on this board
    and he is king
    all hail BOBO king of cLOWNS
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    also my post is relevant, I dont think that double-dosin this compound is dangerous and was supporting my argument with my line of thinking. I was respondin to YEAH Right as he questioned the products saftey

    and alpine if you dont like the slow kids then don't take the short bus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    Thanks for that insightful post that has not a damn thing to do with the topic at hand. Lets keep the clutter on this thread down folks. My rubber sh1t wading boots only come up so high.
    LOL, i was thinking the same thing. sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan View Post
    also my post is relevant, I dont think that double-dosin this compound is dangerous and was supporting my argument with my line of thinking. I was respondin to YEAH Right as he questioned the products saftey

    and alpine if you dont like the slow kids then don't take the short bus
    I wasn't questioning the product's safety per se. I was questioning the safety of people double and triple dosing a compound that doesn't have ANY published in vivo testing or post-cycle labwork.

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    it has been about 16 days on oxyguno @5 pills a day...nothing noted yet.I have tried administration with, before, and after meals, as well as an empty stomach..sometimes i take 2or3 pills at once to see if there is a problem with absorbtion. about 4 more days left before the bottle is empty.
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    Question


    Quote Originally Posted by lanky View Post
    it has been about 16 days on oxyguno @5 pills a day...nothing noted yet.I have tried administration with, before, and after meals, as well as an empty stomach..sometimes i take 2or3 pills at once to see if there is a problem with absorbtion. about 4 more days left before the bottle is empty.
    Still no side effects either?
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    looks like the logs have for the most part taken a turn for the positve
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    I wonder if there were different batches released. Maybe one batch contained the proper active and the other batch was adulterated.

    Mr.50
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    lot number 84124 exp date 2/09 these numbers are located on the side of the box and the bottle as well

    bought my at dps nutrition the seccond day after it was posted approx 3 weeks ago.

    no side effects except a a gain in weight of my credit card bill.
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    lanky when I get home tonight I will compare it to the 2 boxes sitting on my shelf. Of course we have no way of telling if my two boxes are good or not because I have not opened them but down the line I am sure I am going to give it a try and then at least we can see if there is any trend between people with the same lot numbers.

    Mr.50

    Quote Originally Posted by lanky View Post
    lot number 84124 exp date 2/09 these numbers are located on the side of the box and the bottle as well

    bought my at dps nutrition the seccond day after it was posted approx 3 weeks ago.

    no side effects except a a gain in weight of my credit card bill.
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    maybe that is the only lot#
  

  
 

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