Nasty Tren Problems

[darius]

My blood pressure is 185/120.

This is day 7 of taking Tren ace (50mg a day) and Test prop. (40mg a day). I have done a Test cycle before in the past and had no problems with blood pressure. It's gotta be the Tren. The blood pressure problems only became apparent yesterday. I was sweating at work so much today and even outside, and its in the 30's. My anxiety is through the roof. This Tren anxiety even beats the anxiety of withdrawing from Clonazepam. At work, I had to tell my boss that my blood pressure was giving me problems, cause I literally couldn't talk to people properly nor even look at them. So I got to go home early. My heart is beating pretty hard, and I can feel it do something weird once or twice a minute. Beta blockers arn't helping either, which makes me believe that any beta receptor blocking isn't going to do much, cause what I'm dealing with is androgen receptors or something like that. I am definitely stopping this cycle. If I lived in the jungle away from society, I could still pull it off if my heart didn't explode, but I don't, so I am pretty much forced to stop.

Questions:
1. What can I do for fast relief for this insane blood pressure?
2. How long before my bp returns back to normal once I stop?
3. What kind of post cycle therapy do I have to do, if any, for this 7 day failed cycle?

 

[size]

In my opinion, tren is one of the worse drugs one can use but it is commonly used.

1. For lower blood pressure fast, I would suggest deep relaxation or meditating.
2. It should not remain an issue for long after usage is stopped. if it does, you may need medical attention if it is much higher than previously. I would suggest to also start using celery seed extract or Anabolic Innovations Cyle Support.
3. There will be some HPTA inhibition but rather mild. You could probably get away with doing nothing and I would even suggest doing so until blood pressure is under control. Once bp has stabilized, then a low dosage short post cycle should suffice.

 

[DeerDeer]

My blood pressure is 185/120.

This is day 7 of taking Tren ace (50mg a day) and Test prop. (40mg a day). I have done a Test cycle before in the past and had no problems with blood pressure. It's gotta be the Tren. The blood pressure problems only became apparent yesterday. I was sweating at work so much today and even outside, and its in the 30's. My anxiety is through the roof. This Tren anxiety even beats the anxiety of withdrawing from Clonazepam. At work, I had to tell my boss that my blood pressure was giving me problems, cause I literally couldn't talk to people properly nor even look at them. So I got to go home early. My heart is beating pretty hard, and I can feel it do something weird once or twice a minute. Beta blockers arn't helping either, which makes me believe that any beta receptor blocking isn't going to do much, cause what I'm dealing with is androgen receptors or something like that. I am definitely stopping this cycle. If I lived in the jungle away from society, I could still pull it off if my heart didn't explode, but I don't, so I am pretty much forced to stop.

Questions:
1. What can I do for fast relief for this insane blood pressure?
2. How long before my bp returns back to normal once I stop?
3. What kind of post cycle therapy do I have to do, if any, for this 7 day failed cycle?

Go to the emergency room with a blood pressure like that!!! You need an Echocardiogram, ekg, IV bp lowering drugs!!!

 

[darius]

I think my blood pressure is lower now that I am at home. The same place that I work at has a blood pressure machine, and whenever I checked it, it was when I was at work and really stressed out. I feel way more relaxed just being at home. It still feels high, but I think I'm just going to relax here at home. If this was a first time thing I would go to the doc, but I have done some stupid things in the past and increased my bp sickly. I feel better just being away from people right now and more comfortable at home. If I start feeling iffy, I'll go to the doc. Thanks for the replies.

 

[DeerDeer]

I think my blood pressure is lower now that I am at home. The same place that I work at has a blood pressure machine, and whenever I checked it, it was when I was at work and really stressed out. I feel way more relaxed just being at home. It still feels high, but I think I'm just going to relax here at home. If this was a first time thing I would go to the doc, but I have done some stupid things in the past and increased my bp sickly. I feel better just being away from people right now and more comfortable at home. If I start feeling iffy, I'll go to the doc. Thanks for the replies.

Bro - in all honesty you meet the criteria EASILY for hypertensive urgency. It is potentially a fatal condition/state. Highblood pressure is well known as being the silent killer so I wouldn't advise to go by how you feel per say.

I would in the least go to an urgent care clinic and be assessed for you elevated diastolic pressure - basically your heart is continually under great stress when it should be "resting". Your diastolic dysfunction is critical.

 

[Tom 185]

Damn and i just ordered 20cc of 75mg/cc tren ace. I will be using 75mg EOD though, or probably even less than that. Good luck! If you feel better coming off the tren, why not continue another test only cycle?

 

[darius]

Thanks DeerDeer,
I really appreciate your advice and concern bro. I have been doing some deep breathing exercises and just laying down the rest of the day. It was probably stupid of me to not to go to the doc all because I didn't want my doc's/family to know that I was doing roids when I could have had a heart attack or stroke. I felt like I knew my body, and I have put my body thru situations that probably were more likely to explode my heart when I was younger and more stupid. I'm glad I'm seemingly ok now and am confident the worst part is over. I don't know about any damage caused.. I guess I'll learn about that later in my life if there was any. Thanks for your words bro.

 

[darius]

Damn and i just ordered 20cc of 75mg/cc tren ace. I will be using 75mg EOD though, or probably even less than that. Good luck! If you feel better coming off the tren, why not continue another test only cycle?

I'm sure there are a healthy margin of people who don't feel the way I felt when I was on it, cause I honestly don't see how they could be on it if they felt the same way as me. I am already prone to anxiety and heart problems. In hindsight, it was pretty stupid of me to even try Tren. Just know that it is very strong, so be cautious. I know I have never felt this way on any of the prohoromones, superdrol, pp, maxlmg, dht stuff, test, deca, var, etc..

 

[Tom 185]

I'm sure there are a healthy margin of people who don't feel the way I felt when I was on it, cause I honestly don't see how they could be on it if they felt the same way as me. I am already prone to anxiety and heart problems. In hindsight, it was pretty stupid of me to even try Tren. Just know that it is very strong, so be cautious. I know I have never felt this way on any of the prohoromones, superdrol, pp, maxlmg, dht stuff, test, deca, var, etc..

well it looks like you've run a lot of safe stuff for the most part. How did you like PP and maxlmg compared to SD? I love sd and I have PP but i'm yet to try it. Right now I'm running a ton of test and then some dbol for the first time. I may end my cycle with 6 weeks of tren or safe the tren for an sd/test/tren cutter. I would also like to try deca someday but I habitually take finasteride daily.

 

[GREENFEATHER]

Dandelion root, hawthorne berry and celery seed powders did wonders for my bp. Keep an eye on that BP bro, especially after you end the cycle. The BP issues could be something as simple as extra water you're retaining because of the test or something more sinister like a kidney issue.

 

[CHAPS]

Definitely Cycle Support, i can actually feel my temperature go down a bit from my blood pressure dropping when i take my doses, it's awesome stuff, i'm using it right now and i'm on 450mg tren ace and 825mg test blend and no blood pressure problems what so ever.

 

[meowmeow]

Dandelion root, hawthorne berry and celery seed powders did wonders for my bp.

I'll second the hawthorne berry. When I started tren I drove my BP up... I started on hawthorne berry and it came down to high normal range where it stayed the rest on the cycle.

 

[Rogue Drone]

To bring one's BP down relatively quickly, try 2 to 4 grams of AAKG or AEE, and/or 3 grams or more of GABA, which is good to take the edge off of Tren during the day and to sleep better.

 

[jmh80]

I was gonna say arginine. I recommended 5 grams to JBlaze when he had high BP (headache) - said it went away in a half hour.

 

[Ubiquitous]

Tren is not the "gear of the gods" as many inform others.

I have enjoyed it on a few occasions (regarding strength and aesthetic changes), but everytime I get the usual sides that make me think long and hard about incorporating it in a stage of any cycle I design for myself... Many times the cons outweigh the pros.

High BP is definitely something that would dissuade me from touching it again... it is very much a silent killer as DeerDeer warned. Vanity should never trump life's longevity.

Now, if you're one of the people that can handle it, then all the power to you. This just sheds more light on the importance of monitoring your health when you're playing ghetto endocrinologist.

 

[motiv8er]

Funny how you went from Ghetto bootieologist,into ghetto endo. Good words.

 

[HARDtotheCORE]

I had a similar problem about 3 months ago w/ my BP... mine was for different reasons (Old school speed stacks w/ ephedra), but it was 195/102 when i went to the ER, and they didnt know what was the matter with me, and didnt do anything to help, except tell me to relax. I got some of the Twin Lab blood pressure control, as well as some hawthorne, garlic, and 12 stalks of celery per day. It was back to normal w/in about 2 weeks, and right now i'm sitting at 125/65. Blood pressure is not something to **** w/. Its scary **** my man. Be sure to be proactive in your next cycle by using a product like anabolic innvoations cycle support, as well as any necessary BP support supps, or even meds if it's a real problem. Good luck! My guess is that you'll be back to normal w/in the next week. take care

 

[Rogue Drone]

12 stalks of celery everyday? Wow, you are one Hardcore Rabbit.

 

[jmh80]

:toofunny: @ RD

 

[HARDtotheCORE]

12 stalks of celery everyday? Wow, you are one Hardcore Rabbit.

hahahah i know right.... i couldnt get my hands on the ****in extract, so i just went out and bought an assload of it, and downed that ****. Donno if it made a real difference, but my BP did go down, so i wont argue with it.

 

[CHAPS]

Tren is not the "gear of the gods" as many inform others.

I have enjoyed it on a few occasions (regarding strength and aesthetic changes), but everytime I get the usual sides that make me think long and hard about incorporating it in a stage of any cycle I design for myself... Many times the cons outweigh the pros.

High BP is definitely something that would dissuade me from touching it again... it is very much a silent killer as DeerDeer warned. Vanity should never trump life's longevity.

Now, if you're one of the people that can handle it, then all the power to you. This just sheds more light on the importance of monitoring your health when you're playing ghetto endocrinologist.

I definitely agree with all of this, and i've heard that Masteron is a good substitute if you can't handle the Tren, and i know the hardening effects are mainly for precontest but it's a good steroid for cutting in that it's androgenic, a derivative of DHT and does not aromatize and it frees up SBHG

 

[ryano]

Your anxiety could be adding to the problem as well. Try checking your blood pressure at home when you are calm. I am not trying to downplay your condition at all but you could have a touch of "white coat syndrome".

 

[darius]

Yeah, my anxiety definitely adds to the problem.

Basically Tren increased my blood pressure/heart rate and then it gets to the point to where the physical feelings become well aware within my mind and then my mind can't stop thinking about these damn sensations and then I start to get self-conscious cause I deal with lots of people and then I start to get really rigid, sweaty, stupid, and light headed, and then I realize I'm breathing super shallow and so I try to focus on that to increase it and then one of the symptoms mentioned takes the spotlight in my mind again and starts screwing with me. Basically the typical downward spiral that anxiety can cause. Benzo's were nice. They basically made it impossible for me to think about useless crap that perpetuated my anxiety. They were also starting to make me stupid so that's why I got off of them. I'm hoping that I can achieve a level of meditation to where I can control my response to thoughts so that I can avoid the whole anxiety bs.

It's been like 4-5 days since my last injection and my heart is still pretty wired. Yeah even though Tren's halflife is something like 24 hours I'm sure a good portion is still stored in some fat somewhere. Any way to increase the metabolism of the final Tren in my system? Would just weight lifting speed up the time that my body uses it up?

I am also using Toprol XL (beta-blocker) 50mg daily, Taurine 1,000mg twice daily, B vitamins, Celery Seed 85% 75mg twice daily. Damn I don't want to go back to the benzo's cause it was a pain in the ass to get off of them.

 

[darius]

With Tren, I don't think you can go overkill with safety supps.

 

[CryingEmo]

I used a cycle of Tren E with Test cycle last spring ( 600 test and 250-300 tren E per week ) and loved it ; none of the typical sides of the cough, sweating, irritability, etc. I never experianced the dreaded Tren shut down , either. Because I never had high blood pressure in my life I was guilty of not checking it during my tren cycle ... which was stupid and something I want to keep an eye on next time.

So I have a couple questions ;

- I want to get a BP monitor. Can any of you that own one suggest a model ? I was thinking of the wrist type for convienience.

- I imagine any cycle will elevate BP it to a point. What readings do you guys consider 'acceptable' during a cycle and at what numbers would you say 'Stop the cycle !'.

- I plan to start the same Test/Tren cycle in April or May. This is the only cycle of gear I use all year - one cycle and have been off since last July. This time I'm wondering it would it help avoid a BP issue if I started taking BP lowering supplements a couple months out ? During the cycle last time I used Twin Labs Blood Pressure control and hawthorne berry and thought about adding celerty seed extract this time. Any advantage in starting these a couple months before starting the cycle ? I'm also looking at the 'Cycle Support' mentioned in this thread. Or do think all of this is just over kill ??

Thanks alot for your feed back ...

I think an arm cuff monitor is more accurate.


Also, I don't think any preventative meassure is "overkill." IMO it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[DeerDeer]

I need to preface this again by saying if you want to stay away form extra meds to control your bp, anxiety, avoid the offending compound, ie Tren.

I just hope these symptoms are transient and not a sign of a more serious cardiovascular issue. Just make sure oyu have good follow up with oyur PCP. Best of luck.

Yeah, my anxiety definitely adds to the problem.

Basically Tren increased my blood pressure/heart rate and then it gets to the point to where the physical feelings become well aware within my mind and then my mind can't stop thinking about these damn sensations and then I start to get self-conscious cause I deal with lots of people and then I start to get really rigid, sweaty, stupid, and light headed, and then I realize I'm breathing super shallow and so I try to focus on that to increase it and then one of the symptoms mentioned takes the spotlight in my mind again and starts screwing with me. Basically the typical downward spiral that anxiety can cause. Benzo's were nice. They basically made it impossible for me to think about useless crap that perpetuated my anxiety. They were also starting to make me stupid so that's why I got off of them. I'm hoping that I can achieve a level of meditation to where I can control my response to thoughts so that I can avoid the whole anxiety bs.

It's been like 4-5 days since my last injection and my heart is still pretty wired. Yeah even though Tren's halflife is something like 24 hours I'm sure a good portion is still stored in some fat somewhere. Any way to increase the metabolism of the final Tren in my system? Would just weight lifting speed up the time that my body uses it up?

I am also using Toprol XL (beta-blocker) 50mg daily, Taurine 1,000mg twice daily, B vitamins, Celery Seed 85% 75mg twice daily. Damn I don't want to go back to the benzo's cause it was a pain in the ass to get off of them.

 

[DeerDeer]

The close the measurement to the heart, the more accurate the monitor. Arm cuffs are the clinical standard for now. I just went to CVS and purchased one of their $50 setups and has worked seamless for the last 3 years.

I think an arm cuff monitor is more accurate.


Also, I don't think any preventative meassure is "overkill." IMO it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[TeamSavage]

I wasn't aware that angel dust was now used post cycle. What did this happen? :blink:

It helps you utilize all that newly gained strength by making you want to fight cops.

 

[ryano]

Yeah, my anxiety definitely adds to the problem.

Basically Tren increased my blood pressure/heart rate and then it gets to the point to where the physical feelings become well aware within my mind and then my mind can't stop thinking about these damn sensations and then I start to get self-conscious cause I deal with lots of people and then I start to get really rigid, sweaty, stupid, and light headed, and then I realize I'm breathing super shallow and so I try to focus on that to increase it and then one of the symptoms mentioned takes the spotlight in my mind again and starts screwing with me. Basically the typical downward spiral that anxiety can cause. Benzo's were nice. They basically made it impossible for me to think about useless crap that perpetuated my anxiety. They were also starting to make me stupid so that's why I got off of them. I'm hoping that I can achieve a level of meditation to where I can control my response to thoughts so that I can avoid the whole anxiety bs.

It's been like 4-5 days since my last injection and my heart is still pretty wired. Yeah even though Tren's halflife is something like 24 hours I'm sure a good portion is still stored in some fat somewhere. Any way to increase the metabolism of the final Tren in my system? Would just weight lifting speed up the time that my body uses it up?

I am also using Toprol XL (beta-blocker) 50mg daily, Taurine 1,000mg twice daily, B vitamins, Celery Seed 85% 75mg twice daily. Damn I don't want to go back to the benzo's cause it was a pain in the ass to get off of them.

Well on top of the tren complicating things..it sounds to me that the anxiety is definetly playing a part. I use to suffer from panic attacks...I was working crazy mad hours and trying to hold down a relationship with a crazy girlfriend...poor diet sleep and just general stress was the catalyst for the attacks. I had know idea what was wrong..even after a trip to the ER and some tests afterward. I picked up some reading material and found out that it was panic attacks. Well I dumped the girlfriend cut back on the work and started lifting and running ..problem solved.

I would def go to the doc and just get things checked out. Not sure what your current conditioning is but after getting the go ahead from the doc clean the diet up and get your heart in shape. Do some running. IMO(not a professional) drugs dont truly addresse the cause of the problem..just the effects. In my case it was mostly stress and just general poor health. From what I have read everyone suffers from panic attacks some point in their lives. Its worse from some than others. It was definetly not a fun experience but it kicked my ass into wanting to do something about it and get in shape and get rid of alot of negative aspects happening in my life.

 

[Tommyguns]

Go to your doc and ask for Lisinopril for the high BP take it while your on gear, get off it while you are off.....most insurance companies cover the full price so there is a 0 copay

 

[darius]

Well on top of the tren complicating things..it sounds to me that the anxiety is definetly playing a part. I use to suffer from panic attacks...I was working crazy mad hours and trying to hold down a relationship with a crazy girlfriend...poor diet sleep and just general stress was the catalyst for the attacks. I had know idea what was wrong..even after a trip to the ER and some tests afterward. I picked up some reading material and found out that it was panic attacks. Well I dumped the girlfriend cut back on the work and started lifting and running ..problem solved.

I would def go to the doc and just get things checked out. Not sure what your current conditioning is but after getting the go ahead from the doc clean the diet up and get your heart in shape. Do some running. IMO(not a professional) drugs dont truly addresse the cause of the problem..just the effects. In my case it was mostly stress and just general poor health. From what I have read everyone suffers from panic attacks some point in their lives. Its worse from some than others. It was definetly not a fun experience but it kicked my ass into wanting to do something about it and get in shape and get rid of alot of negative aspects happening in my life.

Yeah you're right. Stress definitely plays a part in my life. There are so many different factors with stress that it's not even funny. For me, I'm pretty sure alot of it is hereditary or through the way I was raised as a kid. When you're getting raised, you're being told different things and just depending on everything else around you at the time, it shapes our minds based on how we take in that information. So everyone has different tolerances to stress based on whether they were born with a tendency towards it, hereditarily, the way they were raised, their personality, lifestyle, etc. I think people need to do a lot of honest introspection if they are struggling with stress to find out where exactly it is coming from. At the same time, I know about my hereditary and ways I was raised, so I should have better judgement automatically when it comes to my diet and lifestyle.

I agree with what you say that drugs don't really address the cause of the problems most of the time. There arn't very many "cures" out there. But at the same time, with something like stress, there is never going to be a "cure" for it. Stress will manifest itself through different ways at different times with different intensities. Like how most drugs "control" symptoms, thats pretty much the only way people can manage stress, medicinally or not. People just know stress as being the "bad" thing because it makes us damn uncomfortable the majority of the time. In a way however, stress kind of acts as a ceiling limit too and it lets us know when we arn't doing something right or need to change something about how we are doing things. Without stress, people would push themselves to their deaths for whatever reason. Stress kinda keeps us in check and in line. There are medicinal ways to control stress, cause after all, what we "feel" from stress is just the actions of certain chemicals in our bodies, so medicine can control stress well. I just hate the feeling of being dependent on a medication for long periods of time. When you are using a medication for long periods of time and its just a medicine that is being used to help you tolerate the symptoms, it kinda makes one, or at least me, wonder what can be done to find that underlying problem to make things better. Sometimes that underlying problem is going to need to be worked on everyday, but I'd rather be dependent on bettering myself naturally in that aspect than wearing a band-aid forever.

We just live in a society right now where the majority agrees that there isn't enough time in a day. And when that happens as it is happening, people are ALWAYS going to choose the easy route. After all, that's kinda what technology is, it makes things "easier" for us. Well we know better than most that "easier" does not mean better. A simple example would be free weights to machine weights. We know which one is easier and we know which one is "better". That's why when I make choices in life, sometimes I just ask myself "which one is easier?" so that I can make sure I'm not basing my decision on the fact that maybe sometimes I feel like a lazy ass and am prone to making the easier, and what could be, wrong decision. So people nowdays, they get some symptoms and they go straight to their doctors. Instead of giving the patient Xanax every month, I think doctors should take greater responsibility for their patients and work with their patients kind of how a sports trainer works with their client. Doctors assume that everybody is on a perfect diet and get at least moderate exercise when they diagnose their patients. At the same time patients are irresponsible thinking that they can get all better with just some pills and no change in their crap diet or inability to exercise. Ok, so maybe people really don't have all the time they would like to in order for them to perfect their diets, well then nutritionists should become as prevailant as doctors imo. I don't know how many problems would be solved with just good diet and exercise, but it would be a lot. Sometimes people view diet as "oh yeah, that simple thing that I'll get around to" so they don't give it much credit when it really means so much. Diet is extremely underrated. In a nation where people eat for pleasure, a good diet is going to stay underrated and pretty much extinct.

A lot of problems would be solved if people just had some grasp as to how important good health really is. They should be more aware of its implications and how realistically signficant something like diet and exercise would do to improve their lives. They should be more pro-active in their search and journey to achieving good health and a good state of mind, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Maybe we should just let doctors keep doing what they do and the majority doing what they do. I guess Darwinism could apply here, but sometimes you just want to help others.

Anyways, the Tren finally wore off and my heart rate / blood pressure returned to normal. Normal which in my case is still a little high at like 130/85, which of course I am going to still work on with better diet technique and lifestyle changes, to bring down even lower. Thanks guys for your help and suggestions.

 

[DeerDeer]

I wasn't aware that angel dust was now used post cycle. When did this happen? :blink:

You didn't know?? It is the new wave of test stimulation and aromatase inhibition - it may even boost your police record and make you super mega alpha male.

or you could just go to your primary care provider LOLers!

 

[DeerDeer]

Go to your doc and ask for Lisinopril for the high BP take it while your on gear, get off it while you are off.....most insurance companies cover the full price so there is a 0 copay

Great thought as ace inhibitors play a clinically significant role in cardiac remodeling though depending on what an echo would show the meds may be different based on the individual.

 

[ryano]

Yeah you're right. Stress definitely plays a part in my life. There are so many different factors with stress that it's not even funny. For me, I'm pretty sure alot of it is hereditary or through the way I was raised as a kid. When you're getting raised, you're being told different things and just depending on everything else around you at the time, it shapes our minds based on how we take in that information. So everyone has different tolerances to stress based on whether they were born with a tendency towards it, hereditarily, the way they were raised, their personality, lifestyle, etc. I think people need to do a lot of honest introspection if they are struggling with stress to find out where exactly it is coming from. At the same time, I know about my hereditary and ways I was raised, so I should have better judgement automatically when it comes to my diet and lifestyle.

I agree with what you say that drugs don't really address the cause of the problems most of the time. There arn't very many "cures" out there. But at the same time, with something like stress, there is never going to be a "cure" for it. Stress will manifest itself through different ways at different times with different intensities. Like how most drugs "control" symptoms, thats pretty much the only way people can manage stress, medicinally or not. People just know stress as being the "bad" thing because it makes us damn uncomfortable the majority of the time. In a way however, stress kind of acts as a ceiling limit too and it lets us know when we arn't doing something right or need to change something about how we are doing things. Without stress, people would push themselves to their deaths for whatever reason. Stress kinda keeps us in check and in line. There are medicinal ways to control stress, cause after all, what we "feel" from stress is just the actions of certain chemicals in our bodies, so medicine can control stress well. I just hate the feeling of being dependent on a medication for long periods of time. When you are using a medication for long periods of time and its just a medicine that is being used to help you tolerate the symptoms, it kinda makes one, or at least me, wonder what can be done to find that underlying problem to make things better. Sometimes that underlying problem is going to need to be worked on everyday, but I'd rather be dependent on bettering myself naturally in that aspect than wearing a band-aid forever.

We just live in a society right now where the majority agrees that there isn't enough time in a day. And when that happens as it is happening, people are ALWAYS going to choose the easy route. After all, that's kinda what technology is, it makes things "easier" for us. Well we know better than most that "easier" does not mean better. A simple example would be free weights to machine weights. We know which one is easier and we know which one is "better". That's why when I make choices in life, sometimes I just ask myself "which one is easier?" so that I can make sure I'm not basing my decision on the fact that maybe sometimes I feel like a lazy ass and am prone to making the easier, and what could be, wrong decision. So people nowdays, they get some symptoms and they go straight to their doctors. Instead of giving the patient Xanax every month, I think doctors should take greater responsibility for their patients and work with their patients kind of how a sports trainer works with their client. Doctors assume that everybody is on a perfect diet and get at least moderate exercise when they diagnose their patients. At the same time patients are irresponsible thinking that they can get all better with just some pills and no change in their crap diet or inability to exercise. Ok, so maybe people really don't have all the time they would like to in order for them to perfect their diets, well then nutritionists should become as prevailant as doctors imo. I don't know how many problems would be solved with just good diet and exercise, but it would be a lot. Sometimes people view diet as "oh yeah, that simple thing that I'll get around to" so they don't give it much credit when it really means so much. Diet is extremely underrated. In a nation where people eat for pleasure, a good diet is going to stay underrated and pretty much extinct.

A lot of problems would be solved if people just had some grasp as to how important good health really is. They should be more aware of its implications and how realistically signficant something like diet and exercise would do to improve their lives. They should be more pro-active in their search and journey to achieving good health and a good state of mind, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Maybe we should just let doctors keep doing what they do and the majority doing what they do. I guess Darwinism could apply here, but sometimes you just want to help others.

Anyways, the Tren finally wore off and my heart rate / blood pressure returned to normal. Normal which in my case is still a little high at like 130/85, which of course I am going to still work on with better diet technique and lifestyle changes, to bring down even lower. Thanks guys for your help and suggestions.

Well said my friend reps to you. I know we all kind of focus on the physical aspects of what we do. But one thing we dont talk alot about here is the interconnection between our physical, mental and spiritual health. When one suffers they all suffer. Bodywizards log on the IBE thread is a definite testemant to this ideal.

I agree with you that there is no real cure for stress. But I also believe that the answer lies in the way we deal with stress.

On this board we harp on alot of people taking these chemicals when they are not ready...ie experience with basic diet and nutrition, reaching our genitic potential, and most importantly age. However what we dont talk about is the mental circumstances we are in when we make the decision to use these compounds. We have to keep in mind they are all interconnected and we are doing these things for the right reason.

It sounds to me you have a pretty good grasp on everything and Im not telling you anything you dont already now.

Take care.:thumbsup: