Test E Cycle - do I need an AI?
- 10-10-2006, 03:36 PM
- 10-10-2006, 03:40 PM
I say have it on hand in case you do and use it only as necessary.Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
- 10-10-2006, 03:41 PM
I have Nolva and Clomid on hand in case gyno or some estrogen related side occurs.
Is that sufficient?
10-10-2006, 03:48 PM
I for one have that mantality of always wanting to stay somewhat lean. On my cycle though Im going to try my best to throw that away and get as big as possible. Bloat doesnt bother me, yet. It goes away later so thats not a problem. I have planned on taking AI on cycle but only for preventing gyno. Should I go with a low dose SERM on cycle or just run a very low dose AI throughout???
BP when you say use only if neccessary do you mean just take when bloating is too much? Im sure thats what you mean but, would you have to taper up and down to avoid estrogen rebound or just take when bloat is too much then stop when it subsides?
SOrry for asking my questions matt but i think it will help your thread and you too.
10-10-2006, 03:49 PM
Some say you do, some say you don't. Some say an AI and some say an anti-e (Nolva). Some say wait for symptoms some say run it all along. All are valid.
I have banged my head against a wall on the contradictory opinions on the matter. Sometimes you have to find out what works for you for yourself. At the end of the day we can only learn from self experimentation. You can research your ass of and still, in the end, need to learn by our own trial and error.
For me, as an endo, aromatising hormones make me fat. I will knock down estrogen from all fronts.
10-10-2006, 03:54 PM
I have decided on running throughout at low dose for prevention and body comp. Guess youre right B, you have to just try. I have read reviews on certain protiens powders etc and when i taste them its sh1t but somehow others rave about it so its like that acronym TEHO.. (?) Since I already have Arimidex im going to run that .25-.50mg ED.
10-10-2006, 03:58 PM
I may just run Test by itself and see how that does me. I really dont want to have to place another order on my research site.
10-10-2006, 04:00 PM
Also, would ATD be sufficient in case I get too much bloat?
I kinda like the idea of seeing how test, by itself effects me with no other added variables.
That would help in future cycles for isolating sides/results.
10-10-2006, 04:24 PM
an ATD or OTC AI will work too. There just isnt as much experiences of people running it for weeks on weeks at a time.
10-10-2006, 04:30 PM
I think what I will do is just run the test and see how that does. If the bloat or estro effects are too much, I will implement ATD and order adex immediately.Originally Posted by pistonpump
I think I'll be alright.
10-10-2006, 04:36 PM
correction *hope* lol.
I was going to try proviron as my anti e because of its added benefiets but have been advised not to on my cycle.
Are you still planning? Are you just running a Test only cycle?
10-10-2006, 04:49 PM
I'm still planning. I will probably run the cycle in december.Originally Posted by pistonpump
Yes, test only.
10-10-2006, 04:58 PM
It is good to run test by itself your first time to see how your body reacts.
My first test cycle I kept A-dex on hand but did not use it untill one day 7 weeks into the cycle my feet got puffy (yes it is a rare but a normal possible reaction). I used A-dex for three days and the puffiness was gone.
The point is you can add an AI at anytime and you will quickly get a handle on bloat. There is no need to run it from the start unluess you want to. Just my 2 cents.
10-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Just my opinion. I'd like to know exactly how much arimidex to use because I was using .5mg a day and it did nothing for the bloat. I still recommend using it though. I never understood why you would wait for symptoms and then use it. I also believe that the less bloat you have, the lower you can keep your blood pressure (if it is a problem). It is a cheap preventative measure. One more input. I've used Provirons before and I love them. They definitely did help control bloat and really do a number on the libido (all that at only 25mg a day). But, I've never understood how they help act as an anti-E when they increase free testosterone levels (which should increase the possibilty of aromatization).
10-10-2006, 05:55 PM
Personally, Id think that an AI could inhibit some of the gains. Thats one good reason to only use it as needed.
10-10-2006, 06:00 PM
Another myth and or opinion that seems to take merit without substantial evidence to back it up.
10-10-2006, 06:02 PM
if anything aromasin 12.5 eod IF needed at all ... keep a clean diet and low in sodium and you won't need it
10-10-2006, 07:15 PM
yeah aromasin is ideal in my book out of the AI's but you gotta pay extra for that. Next time Ill use that or proviron.
10-10-2006, 09:45 PM
Everybody's different. Me, I need .5-1mg Adex/day on cycle or I start growing tits. I second the vote for Aromasin as well, I prefer it to Letro, as it's permanent (no rebound) and is said to be less harsh on lipids. I also like to go with a higher dose than you often see recommended for the first two weeks, like 25-50mg ED.
Others will go with no AI at or below 500mg/week, but I could never get away with that.
10-11-2006, 09:29 AM
aromasin doesn't negatively affect lipid values at all .. letro does
10-11-2006, 01:15 PM
Thanks for the info, Glen. Aromasin seems a bit harder to find and I've read that Arimidex is the 2nd best, under aromasin so I may order some.
10-11-2006, 01:32 PM
Poviron is my pick for most things as it does a good job of keeping things in check. But really nobody NEEDS an AI, you can do everything you need with diet but that takes quit a bit of effort. As far as gains are concerned, ANYHING that reduces your estrogen levels will to some degree reduce your gains as estrogen itself will help you grow (that is why they include it in cattle pellets to start with). I don't know that it is correct to say that the effect is greater with one AI more so then another.
10-11-2006, 01:41 PM
Alot of people run one cap of Rebound Reloaded at night to keep the bloat down. Thats the only really legitimate reason I can see keeping one around.
If your gyno gets out of control, rebound probably wont do anything anyway. You would need letrozole to smash it.
10-11-2006, 01:45 PM
I have Nolva on hand in for PCT and in case I get gyno. I have plenty in case I need to use it on cycle. I doubt that I will as I dont seem to be very succeptible to it. Plus, this is test only.Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
10-11-2006, 02:21 PM
10-11-2006, 02:50 PM
I just read your gyno prevention thread...very nice.
Do you think I should worry about it on a test only cycle?
I really want to see how pure test does without any AI's or estrogen blockers so that I know whats doing what in future cycles.
Do I need to run 10mg Nolva throughout? I assume the chance for gyno on a low dose test only cycle is relatively low.
10-11-2006, 03:17 PM
well I posted that link for the letro info (too many sides really) but at 600mg of test only I would only add it if you need it. It wouldn't hurt anything ether though. there is always a risk vs benifets ratio to weigh.
I wish I could post a thread for SM for you guys to see but I can't find CG now and I don't send anyone to SM sense Bouncer became Lion's ***** but it should what you could do with nothing but test and a tight diet
10-11-2006, 03:55 PM
Well, speaking from experience here:Originally Posted by MattHines
I was on a test-only cycle and got a lump under my nipple. Nolva did nothing for me, except make it less tender. Letrozole got rid of it within 5 days.
Just my 2 cents.
10-11-2006, 04:29 PM
hmmmmm...guess the only real way to know is throught experience.Originally Posted by RoboGiblets
10-11-2006, 04:32 PM
Thats what I'm thinking. Theres so many contradicting opinions and different beliefs that people hold when it comes to AAS usage. This is the original reason that I strayed away from injectibles and did a designer oral cycle. There is so much confusion for someone who is researching to run a cycle with the highest efficacy/safety.Originally Posted by pistonpump
Do I need an AI?
Which is best?
Whats the best way to prevent gyno?
Should I run the AI throughout the cycle?
Should I use HCG?
Im gonna do some more thinking/researching but I still think I'm just gonna run this cycle on its own--with adex and Nolva on hand. I think once I know how pure test effects me then it wont be so damn overwhelming.
10-11-2006, 04:37 PM
yah. i know what you mean.
10-11-2006, 04:57 PM
Just a little different opinion. Estrogen does 2 main things (at least for what concerns growing and lifting). 1. It triggers the body to store more fat and 2. it triggers the body to retain more water. Now #2 I definitely agree with as being beneficial to gaining size and strength (more water promotes cell volumization). #1 may or may not be beneficial depending on your goals. If you take something like arimidex, it increases testosterone levels in the body. So yes you sacrifice the cell volumization but you increase testosterone levels (since it is inhibited to aromatize). So I really think it depends on the person and their individual reaction as to whether or not gains will suffer. For me, it did nothing adversely or beneficial to my gains so I used it. Just me.Originally Posted by Skye
10-11-2006, 06:47 PM
Lets also consider that, although contrary to popular belief, elevated estrogen can cause prostate health issues, rather than DHT, as many have believed.
10-11-2006, 08:39 PM
both true, but estrogen does increase growth in general (not sure on the how as have read several contradictory theories) but generally speaking it does make a difference as has been very well documented.
I am not say that that is a reason you should or should not use them but rather the reason people would notice fewer gains while running them. I should have made that clearer. My reason for not running them unless needed is due to the sides of the drugs rather then the effect. I LIKE running proviron but avoid it and anything else that is hard on the liver unless I need it. A lot of times people are worried about the bloat when they could in fact control it in other ways.
B5150 do you think I could get away with posting that link I was talking about? it is to SM but Candana Golds post is worth it.
10-11-2006, 08:47 PM
Is this something that you can post, as opposed to links or source info that are questionable?
10-11-2006, 09:17 PM
im not worried about bloat just gyno. I hate gyno and dont want to give it any chances thats my theory so if it sacrifices gains a little ill take it, better than having tits.
10-11-2006, 11:15 PM
Well it would be his pic and post, but he is MIA last I heard so I was hesitant to do that as I canít ask him. I used to link to SM without a problem here but that was before I resigned as a mod and began referring to bouncer as Lionís *****.Originally Posted by B5150
pistonpump Nolvadex would probably serve you better there as it tends to be a better treatment for gyno then an AI. Brotelligence might say otherwise but when you look at what most docs do for treatments it usually the SERMS that used for treatment and the AI for prevention purposes. Not always of course and most of this is coming from dr. in chemistry and not medical so take it for what its worth.
10-12-2006, 10:42 AM
What about running AIFM on cycle? I am planning on a test cycle in the next few months and was wondering if that would be a good inhibitor.
10-12-2006, 10:59 AM
Post what you got. I'll (or Mods) delete if it violates RC source or otherwise unaccpetable.Originally Posted by Skye
10-12-2006, 11:58 AM
this guy used nothing but Diet and 1200mg of test e. I went ahead and included the picture so noone should need to regester there.Everyone here is quick to jump on the "lets just jack in some anti e's" bandwagon when in reality water retention is hugely regulated by water intake AND carb intake. . .drop the carbs down gradually and replace those lost calories with fats (flax, udos oil, extra virgin olive etc) and protein. . you will eventually find the level that works for you.
Lots of guys struggle with water bloat on a cycle but anyone that has ever competed usually fugures this out after they change their diet up and start cutting. . .I dieted and got the most ripped I have ever been on 1200 mg test enanthate a week and I took NO anti e's for water retention.
BTW this guy is tight as hell
EDIT: Removed link and replace it with his one post in that respective thread.
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