4-AD by AMS...any good?

[Flexfx]

I got an email from a retailer that i have purchased from before stating:

"Ahhh...The good old days. When Andro ruled the world. Ergopharm's Androdiol, VPX's Paradeca and 4-Test, Biotest's Mag-10, AST's 4-Diol 250. What did all these have in common? They all contained the first legal anabolic that was at the core of the prohormone revolution, 4-Androstenediol. The mother of all prohormones that directly converted to testosterone in the body. Well, they came and went and we've been starving for this androgenic/anabolic replacement ever since...

The wait is finally over! AMS has reproduced this formula to pefection in a perfectly legal and safer of a compound than its predecessors. The product is called 4-AD and has a higher conversion efficiency to testosterone than the older andros. Better yet, the main ingredient is found naturally in several tissues of the body and does not convert to estrogen or DHT."

Anyhow....looked up the product and here are the specs:

4-AD Ingredients: Diandrone Ethyl Ester (150mg), Beta Sitosterol (100mg), Quercetin (50mg), ), 1,4,6 etioallocholan-dione (3mg) 4-AD Other Ingredientsyrolsate acetate, gelatin, magnesium stearate, silica.
4-AD Recommended Use: As a dietary supplement, take one (1) to three (3) capsules per day in divided doses with food. Use in cycles of 4 to 6 weeks. Do not exceed three (3) capsules per day.

My question is based on the specs does this product have any legitimacy or is it just a clever way of marketing?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rodja]

I got an email from a retailer that i have purchased from before stating:

"Ahhh...The good old days. When Andro ruled the world. Ergopharm's Androdiol, VPX's Paradeca and 4-Test, Biotest's Mag-10, AST's 4-Diol 250. What did all these have in common? They all contained the first legal anabolic that was at the core of the prohormone revolution, 4-Androstenediol. The mother of all prohormones that directly converted to testosterone in the body. Well, they came and went and we've been starving for this androgenic/anabolic replacement ever since...

The wait is finally over! Advanced Muscle Science has reproduced this formula to pefection in a perfectly legal and safer of a compound than its predecessors. The product is called 4-AD and has a higher conversion efficiency to testosterone than the older andros. Better yet, the main ingredient is found naturally in several tissues of the body and does not convert to estrogen or DHT."

Anyhow....looked up the product and here are the specs:

4-AD Ingredients: Diandrone Ethyl Ester (150mg), Beta Sitosterol (100mg), Quercetin (50mg), ), 1,4,6 etioallocholan-dione (3mg) 4-AD Other Ingredientsyrolsate acetate, gelatin, magnesium stearate, silica.
4-AD Recommended Use: As a dietary supplement, take one (1) to three (3) capsules per day in divided doses with food. Use in cycles of 4 to 6 weeks. Do not exceed three (3) capsules per day.

My question is based on the specs does this product have any legitimacy or is it just a clever way of marketing?

Thanks in advance.

Even if it i actual 4AD, which I doubt it is, the best use for it is transdermally. The oral availability of 4AD is very poor and requires about 1g/day.

 

[Mass_69]

Actual 4-AD is now illegal for retail sale. Diandrone is another name for DHEA. It also has a tiny amount of ATD in it (1,4,6 etioallocholan-dione).

There are much better "test-boosters" on the market. Not to sound like a commercial, but... check our Board Sponsors.

 

[Flexfx]

Thanks for the heads up! If it sounds too good to be true.....

 

[stxnas]

Actual 4-AD is now illegal for retail sale. Diandrone is another name for DHEA. It also has a tiny amount of ATD in it (1,4,6 etioallocholan-dione).

There are much better "test-boosters" on the market. Not to sound like a commercial, but... check our Board Sponsors.

I checked this out yesterday and this product is a scam to say the least. The company used a combination of different names and nomenclatures to describe its main active ingredient...DHEA...what a joke! Their write up is pretty misleading and it sounds like they have come up with a legal 4AD, but don't fall for it.

EDIT: THIS WAS MY FIRST OPINION ON THIS PRODUCT AFTER DOING SOME RESEARCH ON THE INGREDIENTS. PLEASE DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND COME TO YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. DIANDRONE IS LISTED AS AN INGREDIENT AND IS A FANCY WORD FOR DHEA...THIS LEAD ME TO MY CONCLUSIONS...YOU BE THE JUDGE (I COULD BE WRONG).

 

[xtraflossy]

I just hate when companies triy to pull a fast one over on people. I might have paid $50 for some DHEA !!!:jaw:

 

[ECTOmorph]

u guys i dont think this is actually dhea....

i really think they found a loophole in the lagal system and this is legit

 

[stxnas]

The main active is called diandrone...aka...DHEA.

Diandrone chemical information

3a-Hydroxyetioallocholan & 1,4,6 etioallocholan-dione
I believe these are both is an Anti-Es.

Quercetin
Antioxidant

 

[bigSMokey]

Second that...it is DHEA, just some kind of ethyl derivative.

Now, the problem here is not just the ethics of selling a DHEA derivative claiming that it will be anabolic.

An equally troubling issue is with this diandrone ethyl ester. I wonder if they even know what they're doing. I'll explain (hopefully without boring everybody with a chem lesson). An ester is the product, at least in structurally, between an acid and an alcohol. For instance, with test prop the alcohol is testosterone and the acid is propionic acid. So here, DHEA (diandrone) is the alcohol, so how can it have an ethyl ester? Since ethyl ester means a derivative of ethyl alcohol, we're missing our acid here.

Perhaps they mean it's an ethyl ether, that is possible, but such a basic mistake is a little scary. Isn't it bad enough that we have designers where we don't know what's in them? Well now, we can take stuff where the manufacturer doesn't even know what the hell it is.

OK, rant over. Bottom line, the stuff is probably not a whole lot better - even with it's ester, ether, or whatever - than those first androstenedione products.

 

[xtraflossy]

Another one their selling is 1, 2-Dehydroisoandrosterone , under the name something like 1-AD

1-Androsterone Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings per Container: 60
Amount Per Serving
1, 2-Dehydroisoandrosterone 100mg
Quercetin 50mg
Milk Thistle 50mg


Ok,.. now I found this on another board. It just saound like they made a 4-dhea to convert to 4-AD, and a ... well,.. you'll see.

Oh I agree. I think 4-AD itself was kind of ****.

The dione has 15% based on the 1,4 andro studies. I don't believe there is anything on the diol. I am more excited about the 1-Dione, no the 4-AD piece, but they made a good stack since the 4-AD added the "wet" factor to the dry 1-Adione.

So in a nutshell:

600mg of 4-AD should convert to 90mg of Testosterone IN THEORY then the addition of ATD should help even more.
400mg of 1-Androsterone should convert to 60mg of 1-Testosterone IN THEORY

Good product for people that won't take methyls...

Characterization of boldione and its metabolites in human urine by liquid chromatography/electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.Kim Y, Jun M, Lee W.
Doping Control Center, Korea Institute of Science and Technology, P.O. Box 131, Cheongryang, Seoul, Korea. [email protected]

Boldione (1,4-androstadiene-3,17-dione) is a direct precursor (prohormone) to the anabolic steroid boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-17beta-ol-3-one). It is advertised as a highly anabolic/androgenic compound promoting muscularity, enhancing strength and overall physical performance, and is available on the Internet and in health stores. This work was undertaken to determine and characterize boldione and its metabolites in human urine, using both liquid chromatography with electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography with mass spectrometry and derivatization. Boldione and its three metabolites were detected in dosed human urine after dosing a healthy volunteer with 100 mg boldione. The excretion studies showed that boldione and its metabolites were detectable in urine for 48 h after oral administration, with maximum excretion rates after 1.8 and 3.6 h (boldenone case). The amounts of boldione and boldenone excreted in urine from this 100 mg dose were 34.45 and 15.95 mg, respectively. (c) 2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd

Now the interesting thing about this study is that the levels of conversion are probably MUCH higher, since the estrogen conversion and other excretion pathways are not factored in and with that you STILL get 15% in the urine.

 

[joebo]

Another one their selling is 1, 2-Dehydroisoandrosterone , under the name something like 1-AD

1-Androsterone Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings per Container: 60
Amount Per Serving
1, 2-Dehydroisoandrosterone 100mg
Quercetin 50mg
Milk Thistle 50mg


Ok,.. now I found this on another board. It just saound like they made a 4-dhea to convert to 4-AD, and a ... well,.. you'll see.

Oh I agree. I think 4-AD itself was kind of ****.

The dione has 15% based on the 1,4 andro studies. I don't believe there is anything on the diol. I am more excited about the 1-Dione, no the 4-AD piece, but they made a good stack since the 4-AD added the "wet" factor to the dry 1-Adione.

So in a nutshell:

600mg of 4-AD should convert to 90mg of Testosterone IN THEORY then the addition of ATD should help even more.
400mg of 1-Androsterone should convert to 60mg of 1-Testosterone IN THEORY

Good product for people that won't take methyls...

Characterization of boldione and its metabolites in human urine by liquid chromatography/electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.Kim Y, Jun M, Lee W.
Doping Control Center, Korea Institute of Science and Technology, P.O. Box 131, Cheongryang, Seoul, Korea. [email protected]

Boldione (1,4-androstadiene-3,17-dione) is a direct precursor (prohormone) to the anabolic steroid boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-17beta-ol-3-one). It is advertised as a highly anabolic/androgenic compound promoting muscularity, enhancing strength and overall physical performance, and is available on the Internet and in health stores. This work was undertaken to determine and characterize boldione and its metabolites in human urine, using both liquid chromatography with electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography with mass spectrometry and derivatization. Boldione and its three metabolites were detected in dosed human urine after dosing a healthy volunteer with 100 mg boldione. The excretion studies showed that boldione and its metabolites were detectable in urine for 48 h after oral administration, with maximum excretion rates after 1.8 and 3.6 h (boldenone case). The amounts of boldione and boldenone excreted in urine from this 100 mg dose were 34.45 and 15.95 mg, respectively. (c) 2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd

Now the interesting thing about this study is that the levels of conversion are probably MUCH higher, since the estrogen conversion and other excretion pathways are not factored in and with that you STILL get 15% in the urine.

So what does this exactly mean? Does it actually have anabolic properties?

 

[stxnas]

So what does this exactly mean? Does it actually have anabolic properties?

I thought that other product was an Anti-E...???

Edit: I didn't realize they had a product claiming to be 1-AD. I was referring to their product called Arom-X.

 

[ECTOmorph]

the owner posted something over at bb.com

everyone over there was bashing it as well untill he gave his input

somehow they found a loophole in the regulation

 

[stxnas]

the owner posted something over at bb.com

everyone over there was bashing it as well untill he gave his input

somehow they found a loophole in the regulation

I'm going to go look around over there and see what I can find...I'm betting that they are going to say that their product is a by-product that is naturally occuring (IE Cow Poop or Elephant Urine. LOL.)

 

[gotripped]

Someone let me know.

 

[stxnas]

As a beloved friend of mine once said, "Good grief!"

I just read through the manufacturer's webiste and BB.com for about an hour. I still don't see anything conclusive one way or the other. There is too much arguing and name calling back and forth amongst some good intellectual debating about what this stuff could be. We'll just have to wait and see. Apparently these products are from one or more X employees of a very reputable company...that's the only thing that makes me want to keep an eye on this.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

subscribing

 

[jmh80]

An equally troubling issue is with this diandrone ethyl ester. I wonder if they even know what they're doing. I'll explain (hopefully without boring everybody with a chem lesson). An ester is the product, at least in structurally, between an acid and an alcohol. For instance, with test prop the alcohol is testosterone and the acid is propionic acid. So here, DHEA (diandrone) is the alcohol, so how can it have an ethyl ester? Since ethyl ester means a derivative of ethyl alcohol, we're missing our acid here.

Perhaps they mean it's an ethyl ether, that is possible, but such a basic mistake is a little scary. Isn't it bad enough that we have designers where we don't know what's in them? Well now, we can take stuff where the manufacturer doesn't even know what the hell it is.

OK, rant over. Bottom line, the stuff is probably not a whole lot better - even with it's ester, ether, or whatever - than those first androstenedione products.

Dude - ethanoic acid??????
I think people just got lazy or whatever when they started calling everything "ethyl ester" instead of "ethanoate" - meaning they make the ester with ethanoic acid (i.e. where the ethyl comes from).

I agree with your premise though - POOR nomenclature.

 

[ECTOmorph]

As a beloved friend of mine once said, "Good grief!"

I just read through the manufacturer's webiste and BB.com for about an hour. I still don't see anything conclusive one way or the other. There is too much arguing and name calling back and forth amongst some good intellectual debating about what this stuff could be. We'll just have to wait and see. Apparently these products are from one or more X employees of a very reputable company...that's the only thing that makes me want to keep an eye on this.

yah the person that came out w this was with ergopharm a couple years ago

 

[yeahright]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[BillyB]

Ya, his name is David Cannoy.

Quotes from David

"Thanks for the interest. They are DHEA derived. Keep in mind that they are from AMS - not ErgoPharm. The names clearly are products from AMS. 1-Androsterone, 4-AD and Arom-X. Take care"

1-DHEA is an intermediate between 1-Adiol and 1-ADione
4-DHEA is an intermediate between 4-Adiol and 4-ADione

"99% of the 1-DHEA will turn into 1-ADione in the liver. If you remember 1-Dione was the first product released and was VERY effective. This product will be MORE effective than the 1-Diol or 1-Dione of the past and is a VERY potent muscle builder. 4-DHEA will 99% convert into 4-Dione in the liver, the added AI will slow conversion to estrogen and give you the same effect of the old "andro". New ideas that are amazing always are cursed in the beginning. Finally, the delivery method is FAR superior to the old prohormones, which gives you a product BETTER than the originals."

 

[JonK]

Ya, his name is David Cannoy.

Quotes from David

"Thanks for the interest. They are DHEA derived. Keep in mind that they are from AMS - not ErgoPharm. The names clearly are products from AMS. 1-Androsterone, 4-AD and Arom-X. Take care"

1-DHEA is an intermediate between 1-Adiol and 1-ADione
4-DHEA is an intermediate between 4-Adiol and 4-ADione

"99% of the 1-DHEA will turn into 1-ADione in the liver. If you remember 1-Dione was the first product released and was VERY effective. This product will be MORE effective than the 1-Diol or 1-Dione of the past and is a VERY potent muscle builder. 4-DHEA will 99% convert into 4-Dione in the liver, the added AI will slow conversion to estrogen and give you the same effect of the old "andro". New ideas that are amazing always are cursed in the beginning. Finally, the delivery method is FAR superior to the old prohormones, which gives you a product BETTER than the originals."

So, who wants to be the guinea pig? lol I would offer but I'm in the midst of another Superdrol cycle

 

[Kristofer68SS]

so does the **** work or not?

 

[Supa Freek 420]

1AD was amazing for me. Still have to see more feedback on this one though.

 

[Moyer]

Quotes from David

"Thanks for the interest. They are DHEA derived. Keep in mind that they are from AMS - not ErgoPharm. The names clearly are products from AMS. 1-Androsterone, 4-AD and Arom-X. Take care"

1-DHEA is an intermediate between 1-Adiol and 1-ADione
4-DHEA is an intermediate between 4-Adiol and 4-ADione

"99% of the 1-DHEA will turn into 1-ADione in the liver. If you remember 1-Dione was the first product released and was VERY effective. This product will be MORE effective than the 1-Diol or 1-Dione of the past and is a VERY potent muscle builder. 4-DHEA will 99% convert into 4-Dione in the liver, the added AI will slow conversion to estrogen and give you the same effect of the old "andro". New ideas that are amazing always are cursed in the beginning. Finally, the delivery method is FAR superior to the old prohormones, which gives you a product BETTER than the originals."

hmmm

I thought 4-Dione(Andro) was a crappy compound anyway? And I don't even know what 1-Dione was.

The 1-Androsterone writeup says it converts to 1-Test.

Neither product actually lists 1-DHEA or 4-DHEA in their ingredients list.

I'm not gonna bash 'em too hard yet though. They're not methyls so they're supposed to be non-toxic. According to them, they'll stack well together (& their 4AD product contains an added ATD) and their 3rd product(Arom-X) is for post cycle therapy. So hopefully at least uninformed customers will buy all 3, use as recommended, and not get all fukt up.

 

[pistonpump]

subbed. hope someone can give some feedback. I think it will work but i dont have the money for that so i'll wait til someone does. I was interested when i saw the 4ad because people used it with m1t to combat lethargy i believe, and i was going to finish the bottle of m1t i have had for over 2 years.

 

[Moyer]

The actual original 4AD (4-androstenediol) was good for pretty much everything cause it converts to test. It was very weak in oral form though, so everyone used transdermals.

This new AMS 4AD though (that SUPPOSEDLY converts to 4-dione) probably won't be anything like it.

 

[sixdeucer]

Trying it

I have it and will let you know how it turns out....

 

[stxnas]

Is this your first PH cycle or have you tried others?

 

[sixdeucer]

I have tried a lot of other products out there....SDI Labs, it was expensive but it worked pretty well. I don't think it worked as well as I wanted. I was on the original 1-AD 4-AD ....VPX Sports Paradeca, 1Test and Decavar. Other than that all of those are off the shelves so I am just trying different things to see what works best for me. I am hopin this is like the original. I will let you all know.

J

 

[dagecko]

Definitely keep us undated on this. Have you decided on a dosing protocol and are you stacking this with anything?

 

[Kristofer68SS]

yeah, keep us posted. thanks

 

[sixdeucer]

Ya well right now I just started it yestarday....I am also about 4 weeks into a stack of CellMass, Nitrix and NO Xplode and now the 4-AD I have no idea if that is a wise choice...I guess we will see....if my heart starts to papitate and later lead to an explosion I will leave it in my "WILL" to get on here and let all you guys know. haha IRON UP

 

[sixdeucer]

Almost forgot I am taking the (4) Nitrix pills on wake up at 6 and then eating taking (1) 4-AD with Breakfast...lift if possible....(4) Nitrix, (1) Scoop Cell-Mass... 45 Mins before Lunch...Lunch (1)4-AD...lift, (3) scoops NO-Xplode with lift...(1) Scoop Cell-Mass post Lift.....Dinner (1) 4-AD....relax...(4) Nitrix pills..sleep.

 

[dagecko]

So 3x 4ad/day. Is that the recommended dosage? And I think the BSN supps shouldn't really add any problems with the 4ad...good luck and hopefully it'll work for you.

 

[Jared]

Thanks for logging this for us.

 

[sixdeucer]

Well just as you all were probaly assuming if they are making the 4-AD they are gonna make the 1-AD. It is out. I am all over it. I already started the 4-AD but I am going to stack the 1-AD along with it. Once again I will let you know what is going on with it.

J

 

[axekick]

Subscribed. I miss the good old days. If it were like it was back then and I knew what I know now...
:bb:

 

[natiels]

Well just as you all were probaly assuming if they are making the 4-AD they are gonna make the 1-AD. It is out. I am all over it. I already started the 4-AD but I am going to stack the 1-AD along with it. Once again I will let you know what is going on with it.

I am curious about this stuff so I have a couple questions for ya.
You have been on since 10/25 right?
Are you feeling anything from it so far?

And like others have said, thanks for sharing the info. Lots of people are interested in this.

 

[stxnas]

How long are you going to run the 4AD by itself before you add in the 1AD? Just wondering b/c if the 1AD is added too soon it might be hard to tell which is doing what for you.

 

[xtraflossy]

So what are your first impressions as far as the 4-AD is conserned?

 

[sixdeucer]

Well I am in Africa at the moment so I just ordered it. I started the 4-AD about 6 days ago and the 1-AD should be here in 12-14 days. I will be on the 4-AD for about almost a month before the 1-AD kicks in. I might just finish up this cycle kick in the 1-AD and order up more 4-AD and try a stack of that. Not too sure yet. I could make a 12 week stack and mix in the 1-AD at the end of the first month of the 4-AD. I will let you know what I decide.

 

[sixdeucer]

As for the 4-AD it is kind of hard to tell with the other stuff that I am taking. But I used to be able to sleep longer....now that I am on the 4-AD I feel fully recovered at about 5-6 hours. My mood has shifted....my recovery between sets and post workout seem to be shortened since I have started taking it. My measurements when I started where 18.5 in arms 50 inch chest 36 in waist 55 around the shoulders. As far as lower body...26 in Thighs 17 inch calves......and I am currently 75" tall 239 lbs. I have to re-take those measurements though and I will take more at mid cycle I will repost.

J

 

[xtraflossy]

Just curious, do oyu get an increase in libedo? Would this be described as a "slight increase" or "huge increase"?

Im asking becasue at this time, all the anabolics I have (with only a few exceptions) will more or less kill sex drive, and I was thinking of doing to 2 bottle order so Id have something to run along side of these.

 

[sixdeucer]

I would have to say that I have gotten a pretty big increase in that area...I guess what you are asking is if I blow a "wood" out of nowhere. Ya I definately do. hahaa I just have to clear my mind and it isn't a problem.

 

[xtraflossy]

lol- I don't ever see THAT as a problem
:bb2:

 

[sixdeucer]

**** man it depends where I am....if I am standing in front of a crowd and out of no where poke an eye out that could be a problem....hahahaha

 

[xtraflossy]

**** man it depends where I am....if I am standing in front of a crowd and out of no where poke an eye out that could be a problem....hahahaha

For some people maybe :icon_lol:

 

[thetimbomb]

wow this could be a new era of hope for those who dont pin. good luck with your current cycle and keep us posted.

 

[RoadBlocK]

Isn't it bad enough that we have designers where we don't know what's in them? Well now, we can take stuff where the manufacturer doesn't even know what the hell it is.

That is great, you nailed it, that should win quote of month or something, thats how I feel all the time. Good job.

And Im interested in seeing what feedback we get on this stuff.