Anavar and Winny

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    I don't think that applies at the dosages we use it at. It may only be mildly liver toxic but it is liver toxic none the less. even proviron is some what liver toxic.
    I believe I've read a few studies where it's been used in adults and is mildly toxic. Of course, like you're saying, these were HIV patients that were only using 20mg per day. They go onto say that at other tested dosages, i.e. 40 and 80mg it becomes much more so - two and three times respectively.

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    im gonna have to disagree with the haters on my cycle, not only have i read about how great this cycle is, but i have seen friends who do great and keep great gains. not huge like from test. but good lean gains. Thanks anyways, but im still going through with it.
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    Dude, you're going to do what you want. However, you're getting sound advice from the peeps here. There are far better cycles than what you are proposing to do. It's your long term health that you will have to deal with in the future. Best of luck anyway.

    Who was it that said "ignorance is bliss"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    I don't think that applies at the dosages we use it at. It may only be mildly liver toxic but it is liver toxic none the less. even proviron is some what liver toxic.
    I should have clarified what I meant. Of course all methyls tax the liver, but I was commenting on the post saying that it was "quite" harsh. In relation to other compounds we use(dbol, adrol,etc.), I don't consider Var quite harsh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shock133
    I believe I've read a few studies where it's been used in adults and is mildly toxic. Of course, like you're saying, these were HIV patients that were only using 20mg per day. They go onto say that at other tested dosages, i.e. 40 and 80mg it becomes much more so - two and three times respectively.
    There are studies where it has been prescrbed to people with liver disease, not just hiv. My point was that it is not "quite" harsh. It can be mildly harsh yes, but it less so than other compounds we use.

    "Oxandrolone has been extensively studied in children with growth disorders and adult men with alcoholic hepatitis, an inflammation of the liver that is often accompanied by wasting. It has been shown very safe and effective for treating alcoholic hepatitis related wasting and it is believed that the metabolic problems associated with this condition are similar to those found in HIV-wasting."

    another excerpt note the first sentence:
    Oxandrolone, a synthetic analog of testosterone with minimal virilizing activity and liver toxicity, attenuates muscle wasting after severe trauma, malnutrition, or acquired immunodeficiency virus.9,10 In severely burned children treated during acute hospitalization, oxandrolone significantly improved net protein synthesis, lean body mass, bone mineral content, synthesis of the hepatic constitutive proteins such as albumin and prealbumin, and attenuated the acute phase reactive protein levels.1113 The aim of this study was to determine whether oxandrolone, administered for 1 year after injury to severely burned children, would attenuate catabolism and growth arrest and whether these positive attributes would persist after the drug is discontinued.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead
    There are studies where it has been prescrbed to people with liver disease, not just hiv. My point was that it is not "quite" harsh. It can be mildly harsh yes, but it less so than other compounds we use.

    "Oxandrolone has been extensively studied in children with growth disorders and adult men with alcoholic hepatitis, an inflammation of the liver that is often accompanied by wasting. It has been shown very safe and effective for treating alcoholic hepatitis related wasting and it is believed that the metabolic problems associated with this condition are similar to those found in HIV-wasting."

    another excerpt note the first sentence:
    Oxandrolone, a synthetic analog of testosterone with minimal virilizing activity and liver toxicity, attenuates muscle wasting after severe trauma, malnutrition, or acquired immunodeficiency virus.9,10 In severely burned children treated during acute hospitalization, oxandrolone significantly improved net protein synthesis, lean body mass, bone mineral content, synthesis of the hepatic constitutive proteins such as albumin and prealbumin, and attenuated the acute phase reactive protein levels.1113 The aim of this study was to determine whether oxandrolone, administered for 1 year after injury to severely burned children, would attenuate catabolism and growth arrest and whether these positive attributes would persist after the drug is discontinued.

    Right, I've seen the ones about prescribing it to people with alcohol induced Hepatitis. You're right, it is just mildly harsh. I think everyone here agrees it's just not smart to take those two orals together for any amount of time. Long term health is an issue people don't consider near enough. But, everyone can do what they wish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shock133
    Right, I've seen the ones about prescribing it to people with alcohol induced Hepatitis. You're right, it is just mildly harsh. I think everyone here agrees it's just not smart to take those two orals together for any amount of time. Long term health is an issue people don't consider near enough. But, everyone can do what they wish.
    Yeah, two methyls at once is more taxing on the liver, and usually it's just overkill taking two orals anyway imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead
    Yeah, two methyls at once is more taxing on the liver, and usually it's just overkill taking two orals anyway imo.
    exactly, and winny is harsh and your add to that.

    but he is going to do it and really I can't say too much here, some of the designer steroids cycles I have seen here are much, much worse,
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    im gonna have to disagree with the haters on my cycle, not only have i read about how great this cycle is, but i have seen friends who do great and keep great gains. not huge like from test. but good lean gains. Thanks anyways, but im still going through with it.
    Well I am going to wish you luck but let me leave you with this, your getting a lot of sides for small gains. to put it in other terms this cycle is like paying a couple of hundred bucks for a gram of test, yes it will work and yes you will look good (winny is good for that if nothing else) but it will cost you far more then you need in terms of health. And not to be hating but that comment about them not being suppressive shows that you should do some more research. Good luck though
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    im gonna have to disagree with the haters on my cycle, not only have i read about how great this cycle is, but i have seen friends who do great and keep great gains. not huge like from test. but good lean gains. Thanks anyways, but im still going through with it.
    We hear ya. You posted, we responded. Maybe when you ask us questions you should realize we care about you more than you?

    Friends don't let friends do ALL oral ALL Methyl cycles.

    You'll have some gains, you'll look really good for a while...
    When you are ready to grow, come back.
    My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html
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    and oral or no orals, ALL steroids are toxic on your liver. But NOT AS toxic as what an alcoholic does to his liver day in and day out for years... Im not too worried.
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    and i do appreciate the info guys, it's just, and i will reiterate, THIS IS ALL I HAVE THAT IS OFFERED TO ME, And gear or no gear.... i'll take the gear. You know what i mean? AND ITS FREE!! Who can beat that??
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    I've looked around and I see nothing but good advice from people who are both looking out for your health moreso than you are. Don't think of them as 'haters'. Think of them as trying to give you advice which doesn't always come wrapped in a pretty package with a bow. I got the same treatment and believe it or not it saved my life.

    Be thankful...I know I am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    and oral or no orals, ALL steroids are toxic on your liver.
    wrong .. you really are VERY ignorant about AAS
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    very ignorant? Now come on, let's not name call. Every steroid puts stress on your liver, thats not ignorance.
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    If you come along asking for honest advice then you came to the right place, not everyone will tell you 100% accurate info but we do our best to spread knowledge for you to make your own decisions. But if you came here to tell everyone what your going to do and ignore the intelligent bodies and just wait till someone tells you what you want to hear, then so be it. You are risking your health, your future and for what a few lean pounds from free gear. risk/reward is how most things in life get put into perspective, SO now im goona say do the free cycle, get bigger, get leaner, no PCT its a waste of time, and you dont need to listen or learn from the people who know exactly what they are talking about because they are "haters".
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    very ignorant? Now come on, let's not name call. Every steroid puts stress on your liver, thats not ignorance.
    ignorant is not a "name" .. i didn't call you a dumbass .. you simply aren't well versed on steriods .. show me a study that shows how injectable testosterone stresses the liver
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    I also have looked into taking a oral only cycle but not two. I understand there free but why take them both at once? Or not add some test e, needles a problem? I'll be honest needles are a problem for me thats why I looked into a oral only. But I have recently read alittle about testosterone transdermal and by taking that with ONE of these orals would be the way to go.

    Or if I were you I would take ONE of them for the recommended cycle with PCT and a few months later do the other. That way if you havent taken both you can see how your body reacts to each one. Its better to play it safe.

    Good luck
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    MSS05

    Its great to be young and have a fresh perfect liver!!
    You said you are 21?? HMMM....

    You did one smart thing... you came to AM to tell all of us what you ARE going to do - - I think with a closed mind.
    (Hell they were "FREE" drugs)
    Do you have any special friends that will post for you if you get sick or die?? We can all learn from your "little" mistake.

    I guess there is a good side to this...

    If you make it you will look great!!

    If you dont make it, your friends will look at you and say "DAMN HE LOOKS RIPPED". Then someone will whisper "Yeah, but hes DEAD".

    I know this sounds HARSH or maybe crazy....

    Damn man, I like to take chances, I have all my life...I like better odds though. Your odds suck.!! Lets see...look alittle better or stress your liver.

    At 21 you have miles and miles to go.

    This is not a flame man, Im just trying to stimulate some sensible thinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    very ignorant? Now come on, let's not name call. Every steroid puts stress on your liver, thats not ignorance.
    You are ignorant. Plain and simple. It's ok, we all were once. Just don't be stubborn too.
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    how about breaking it up into 4 week cycles? I have a friend who has done this same cycle multiple times with bloodwork with little or no sides.
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    EDIT: Read the rules next time. Bye.
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    "Anavar:
    Oxandrolone

    Is a very low androgen and one of the most popular steroids because it works and rarely ( maybe one in 1000 users) causes any adverse reaction - and it also has no influence on the body's own testosterone production even if used in very high dosages."

    Winstrol

    Winstrol doesn't aromatize and rarely causes water retention, gains made with this steroid are solid and easily kept after the athlete stops the use. In combination with Norma Deca ( Nandrolone decanoate), Winstrol makes a really safe stack for newbies and older athletes, women are using it a lot too.

    That link is a huge no no. I would suggest deleting it. You might as well delete the info along with it because it is wrong. Var WILL influence the hpta.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    "Anavar:
    Oxandrolone

    Is a very low androgen and one of the most popular steroids because it works and rarely ( maybe one in 1000 users) causes any adverse reaction - and it also has no influence on the body's own testosterone production even if used in very high dosages."

    Winstrol

    Winstrol doesn't aromatize and rarely causes water retention, gains made with this steroid are solid and easily kept after the athlete stops the use. In combination with Norma Deca ( Nandrolone decanoate), Winstrol makes a really safe stack for newbies and older athletes, women are using it a lot too.
    I'm guessing you were posting this for informational purposes. Pay a little more attention to detail. And like said in the previous post, you should delete it immediately since it is source posting.

    Edit: You're right, that information is wrong with regards to Anavar. Please just buy some other gear to run with this stuff and end the pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    "Anavar:
    Oxandrolone

    Is a very low androgen and one of the most popular steroids because it works and rarely ( maybe one in 1000 users) causes any adverse reaction - and it also has no influence on the body's own testosterone production even if used in very high dosages."

    Winstrol

    Winstrol doesn't aromatize and rarely causes water retention, gains made with this steroid are solid and easily kept after the athlete stops the use. In combination with Norma Deca ( Nandrolone decanoate), Winstrol makes a really safe stack for newbies and older athletes, women are using it a lot too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mss05
    EDIT: Read the rules next time. Bye.
    See ya on BB.com son!!
    My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html
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