My DNP log

[NYhomeboy]

Repost from earlier with some slight changes...

Height: 5'8
Weight: 180
Bodyfat: 11-12%

Goal:
Reach single digit bodyfat after the cycle. Note, I realize that you can do this with exercise and diet, and I would inevitably hit single digits in that way. But this experiment is also an educational one in which I can share my DNP experience and hopefully fight the negative stereotype that DNP has, as long as learn more about DNP and its effect on my body.

DNP Dosage:
200mg DNP days 1-7
400mg DNP days 8-14

First dosage will be taken with my 1st meal after morning cardio
Second dosage will be taken 8 hours later

Supplements:
EC
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Hawthorne Berry (I know DNP doesn't increase bp, but taking it for the EC since high bp runs in family)

Water:
1-2 gals a day

Cardio:
20-30 minutes of light jogging (usually 45-hour, but lowering it b/c of DNP)

Diet:
I personally believe in keeping my carbs low when I diet... 100g on training days, <30g on non-training days, and clean refeeds once a week. Fats are kept very clean... almonds, flax, avocadoes, etc.

Training days -
Protein: 200g
Carbs: 130g
Fat: 70g

Non-training days -
Protein: 220g
Carbs: 30g
Fat: 102g

 

[NYhomeboy]

Day 1

Starting Weight
182.0

Dosage
200mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
I took it easy today and kept on diet, but did not train or do cardio. Nothing really to note so far as expected... I occasionally get flashes of hotness and my skin is somewhat flushed, but that could just be placebo. I weighed in relatively heavy today after a slight refeed yesterday, so some of that water weight is expected to drop (not DNP). We'll see in the next few days. I will check in on weight every day, but will keep this log relatively short until the DNP kicks in. I also dropped venom and am going to give it a few days off until I take EC, which might explain the lethargy I felt today.

 

[torp]

Good luck bro. I think you'll get some fantastic results and looking forward to hearing the results.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Day 2

Starting Weight
182.0
Today's weight
182.6 (+0.6)
Dosage
200mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
Sweated slightly more today... Weight was probably up today because I didn't take a crap before I weighed in. I know that results will be skewed because of DNP's properties, but I'd like to keep track of it anyway. I felt a little hotter than normal when doing legs today -- again, could just be placebo. I swear that I felt some heavier breathing though walking back from the gym.

I think I'm going to change the plans... I'm going to do 200mg again tomorrow and the day after, but then 400mg from day 5-14. Reason is that I'm trying to make a specific weight class for an event, and would really like to drop down to 170-175 ASAP.

 

[Popa Murph]

I've heard that DNP makes you reatin water, I bet you'll gain a pound or two because of that.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Day 3

Starting Weight
182.0
Today's weight
180.2 (-1.8)
Dosage
400mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
Decided to up DNP by 200mg today... Sort of had a bad day diet-wise. The hunger really got to me and had a mini-binge on healthy food (almonds, wheat bread, the like). Starting to feel the heat a little... it's 60 degrees outside and I'm inside with the AC on and it feels pretty warm. I actually like the feeling of DNP, reminds me of summer. Weight fluctuation was due to taking a massive crap this morning and nothing else. It will be interesting to see how an intake of normally a lot of food will affect my weight tomorrow morning on DNP.

 

[Conciliator]

Day 3

Starting Weight
182.0
Today's weight
180.2 (-1.8)
Dosage
400mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
Decided to up DNP by 200mg today... Sort of had a bad day diet-wise. The hunger really got to me and had a mini-binge on healthy food (almonds, wheat bread, the like). Starting to feel the heat a little... it's 60 degrees outside and I'm inside with the AC on and it feels pretty warm. I actually like the feeling of DNP, reminds me of summer. Weight fluctuation was due to taking a massive crap this morning and nothing else. It will be interesting to see how an intake of normally a lot of food will affect my weight tomorrow morning on DNP.

As you take more, you'll probably retain more water as well, so don't read too much into what the scale says.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Day 4

Starting Weight
182.0
Today's weight
182.2 (+0.2)
Dosage
400mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
I know I shouldn't pay attention to weight but it's been everywhere and it has me somewhat concerned. Gotta drop 10 lbs in the next 3 weeks or so, which I think is possible if I can eventually healthily ramp up to 600mg DNP and tolerate the sides, to make weight. I've read a lot of DNP logs, and the one thing I noticed is that weight consistently dropped on most of them, even if it did fluctuate around a lot.

Sweated a little more today but not as much as I thought I would. I switched diet up a little bit... dropped a bunch of fat from my diet and upped the protein. Lethargy hit me pretty hard today. Also another thing I noticed is that on DNP, my breathing is heavy... like when you're about to fall asleep. Interesting stuff.

 

[Conciliator]

I know I shouldn't pay attention to weight but it's been everywhere and it has me somewhat concerned. Gotta drop 10 lbs in the next 3 weeks or so, which I think is possible if I can eventually healthily ramp up to 600mg DNP and tolerate the sides, to make weight. I've read a lot of DNP logs, and the one thing I noticed is that weight consistently dropped on most of them, even if it did fluctuate around a lot.

Sweated a little more today but not as much as I thought I would. I switched diet up a little bit... dropped a bunch of fat from my diet and upped the protein. Lethargy hit me pretty hard today. Also another thing I noticed is that on DNP, my breathing is heavy... like when you're about to fall asleep. Interesting stuff.

You should be able to make weight without going up to 600mg/day. Even with a 1000 cal/day deficit, you can lose 2/lbs per week. Add in 400mg/day of DNP and you're all set. I think it would be a very bad idea to let your desire to make weight push you to a higher dose then you should be taking. I'm not saying that you would do this, but look at it objectively... at your temperature, and at how you're feeling.

 

[glenihan]

...why are you starving yourself? you are barely taking in ANY calories .. i really don't think this is a remotely good idea while using DNP (aside from insulin the only bodybuilding drug that can easily kill you)

honestly you realize that you accepted the risk of death just to lose a few pounds? (when you are light to begin with)

 

[Conciliator]

...why are you starving yourself? you are barely taking in ANY calories .. i really don't think this is a remotely good idea while using DNP (aside from insulin the only bodybuilding drug that can easily kill you)

Looks to me like he's taking in about 2000 cal per day. That's not starving himself... that's a good deficit of 500-1000 cal per day.

honestly you realize that you accepted the risk of death just to lose a few pounds? (when you are light to begin with)

You can also die from water intoxication.

He's taking 400mg/day. He's not going to die. Chill out

 

[glenihan]

since when is it a good idea to be in a 1000 calorie deficit?? in my book that's starving yourself

...don't be a jackass .. you could also die walking down the street .. your chances are much greater with DNP since it cooks your insides

my point was the risk is not anywhere worth the reward of a few pounds dropped .. especially when he's only 180 to start with

 

[NYhomeboy]

since when is it a good idea to be in a 1000 calorie deficit?? in my book that's starving yourself

...don't be a jackass .. you could also die walking down the street .. your chances are much greater with DNP since it cooks your insides

my point was the risk is not anywhere worth the reward of a few pounds dropped .. especially when he's only 180 to start with

I spent a good bit of the last month reading up about DNP, its effects, medical studies, countless logs and user experiences, etc. I would do the same before you're going to jump on someone for using DNP -- your reaction seems to be that of someone who's basing his knowledge off of DNP's false reputation, much like the uneducated do about anabolic steroids. I don't mean to bash because my impression of DNP was once the same as yours, but if you're saying it kills because it "cooks you from the inside", I would read up on it a little more.

IMO, I would rather take this stuff than clen (You of all people know how much clen sucks :icon_lol DNP is safe and effective as long as you're smart with it. I'm not sure how it's any more dangerous using DNP to break a plateau whether you're 180 lbs or you're 200 lbs, but I can assure you that an intelligent person on DNP is going to suffer a fraction of long term side effects (none actually) that your average user on EC, Clen, T3, anabolic steroids, etc. will suffer.

 

[Conciliator]

since when is it a good idea to be in a 1000 calorie deficit?? in my book that's starving yourself

If you go off of 15xBW, his metabolism is probably somewhere around 2700 cal/day. That's a 700 cal/day deficit, or about a pound and a half a week from dietary restriction. That is not starving, despite your semantic intuitions.

...don't be a jackass .. you could also die walking down the street .. your chances are much greater with DNP since it cooks your insides

my point was the risk is not anywhere worth the reward of a few pounds dropped .. especially when he's only 180 to start with

Your conception of the level of risk is grossly overstated. When used properly, no one is going to have his "insides cooked". You'd really have to screw up for that. In fact, at reasonable dosages DNP will not even raise your body temperature, as the body is able to radiate the increase in thermogenesis.

 

[glenihan]

i have done quite a bit of reading on DNP (just for my own edification) and this isn't based on myths

DNP is a poison .. its very dangerous .. do many people use it and have zero problems? absolutely ... is it worth the risks? not even close in my mind

i'm not sure conciliator why you say DNP doesn't raise body temp as that's not my understanding ... in all seriousness can you explain this scientifically? .. actually i don't want to take up the log

 

[Conciliator]

DNP is a poison .. its very dangerous .. do many people use it and have zero problems? absolutely ... is it worth the risks? not even close in my mind

The risks are exponentially proportional to the dosage. At a reasonable dosage, the risks are minimal. Over 100,000 people took DNP in the 1930's. That's a hell of a lot of people. And there were only a handful of deaths.

i'm not sure conciliator why you say DNP doesn't raise body temp as that's not my understanding ... in all seriousness can you explain this scientifically? .. actually i don't want to take up the log

DNP increases heat production in proportion to the dose. The more you take, the more heat you produce. But at lower concentrations, the heat produced is not so much that it cannot be emitted. Your blood vessels will vasodilate and you'll radiate the excess heat, keeping your temperature normal.

 

[NYhomeboy]

i have done quite a bit of reading on DNP (just for my own edification) and this isn't based on myths

actually i don't want to take up the log

Hey bro we're all adults here. Part of my little DNP experiment is so that there is a lot more clarification on the safety and usage, so the more info and debate the better, even if you two are going to piss on my log. If you go to meso's board, there is a much different culture on the usage of DNP there than here. I've honestly heard about more unintentionally bad experiences (and by unintentional I mean people who don't knowingly ramp up the dosages then ***** about them) on clen than DNP.

 

[glenihan]

which is exactly why i said i don't want to continue this in your log

good luck and be safe

 

[NYhomeboy]

I actually feel the opposite about DNP. I see all of these people with 20-25% bodyfat+ using it... I think that something like DNP should only be utilized to break a plateau and get to single digits (my lifelong plateau). At 25% bodyfat, some good diet and exercise would be very DNP-like.

 

[Conciliator]

That is my conclusion as well. DNP seems to do little (or far too little for the risk) for those with low bodyfat already. The risk seems to be in the potential long-term consequences...these are risks I'm no longer willing to take...but perhaps some damage is already done.

What long term risks/consequences/damage are you even talking about? If cataracts, I'd research DNP a little more. If something else, please elucidate.

Few realize that DNP is protective at low concentrations.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Day 5

Starting Weight
182.0
Today's weight
180.8 (-1.2)
Dosage
400mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
Same complaint about weight... I was actually at 180.0 a few days before I started the cycle. Hopefully when serum levels stabilize I can start seeing the weight drop a little more because the amount of water I am holding on to will stop increasing(?). I switched the diet around a little bit and dropped some fat from some meals and replaced it with carbs -- hopefully it will aid in some energy. Lethargy is really starting to hit in, as I am constantly sleepy/tired and my breathing is very deep.

I haven't been sweating so much at night because I keep the room very very cold, but I can walk around in a t-shirt still sweating when others are freezing. I think I'll take the next 7 days on 400mg and if I still don't see much weight loss I might bump it up to 600mg and see if I can handle it for a few days.

 

[Conciliator]

I switched the diet around a little bit and dropped some fat from some meals and replaced it with carbs -- hopefully it will aid in some energy. Lethargy is really starting to hit in, as I am constantly sleepy/tired and my breathing is very deep.
I haven't been sweating so much at night because I keep the room very very cold, but I can walk around in a t-shirt still sweating when others are freezing. I think I'll take the next 7 days on 400mg and if I still don't see much weight loss I might bump it up to 600mg and see if I can handle it for a few days.

See, you're already on your way to using DNP improperly. DO NOT think that you are going to be able to judge how well the DNP is working by what the scale says. DO NOT! Your weight will fluctuate. You will retain water. The scale will NOT indicate your progress! So stop looking at it. Seriously. You'd be better off not even having a scale if you let it influence you like this, because now you're talking about increasing the dose when it sounds like the sides are about as high as you'd comfortably want... you're already experiencing lethargy/tiredness and you're sweating in a t-shirt when it's cold and others are freezing. And you haven't even peaked out serum levels at the 400mg/day dose.

I'd seriously think before you increase your dose to 600mg/day just because the scale says you're not on target for your goals. Big mistake in that line of thinking.

I'd also consider adding ephedrine+caffeine for several reasons. It'll help mobilize fat, provide energy, suppress your appetite, and dilate your lungs for easier breathing.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but DNP is dangerous. I doubt a 600mg/day dosage would ever kill you, but it's at that dosage and beyond where people really do start to feel like death, for no good reason. And as has been mentioned before, the risks greatly increase.

Take it slow. Take it easy. Take it completely safe. If your diet is in check, you should make your goal no problem once you drop the water weight. Until then, stay away from the scale and base your cycle purely off of how you're feeling and what your temperature is.

 

[torp]

Listen to conciliator. The difference in fat loss at 600 mg is not worth the increase in sides. You think you feel bad now at day 5 on 400mg? Just wait till you do 600mg for a few days. It's a world of difference.

400mg will take you down to what you're looking for safely. Stick with it. As conciliator said, the scale will lie to you and so will the mirror to a great degree. If you have your diet in check, you will lose your 10lbs. You might want to bump your carb percentage up a bit as you won't be able to store them anyway. I found keeping the carbs and protein up and keeping the fats down to 50g or less was the biggest factor for me for optimal weight loss.

Also make sure you have sufficient time to drop the water. It tends to take me 12 days (roughly) to lose my water after a 2 to 3 week dnp run. Most people usually shed their water after a week though.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Gotcha. Will stick to 400mg/day and stop worrying about the scale. Taking EC... only once per day though because appetite isn't too bad, plus I'm very sensitive to insomnia while on EC. I'll probably add maybe 20 minutes of cardio or so on off days.

 

[Conciliator]

I would appreciate it if you would drop the condescending attitude.

DNP causes strong oxidative bursts in the mitochondria. These free oxygen radicals will cause cumulative damage to your mitochondria and mitochondrial DNA. Mutations in mitochondrial DNA are now thought to play a critical role in accelerating the aging processes. Keep in mind that DNP's processes are active in all the types of cells in the body be they muscle cells, brain cells, skin cells, etc. It appears that DNP will accelerate damage and the aging processes throughout your entire body. Antioxidant supplementation can not prevent this...they barely make an impact on everyday oxidation.

My good friend. This is one of the greatest myths out there. DNP decreases ROS production by lowering the mitochondrial membrane potential (delta psi). ROS result from the "crowding" of electrons within the respiratory chain complexes I and III. Some of the "crowded" electrons then escape, not following the normal pathway. Uncouplers like DNP allow protons to leak though, increasing the permeability of the inner membrane, dropping delta psi, promoting the normal pathway, and decreasing ROS production. This is why uncoupling proteins are now thought to regulate ROS production: when their expression is increased by even a small amount, ROS production drops. Accordingly, we're seeing more and more studies like this.

So nix on the notion of cumulative damage, mutations, and aging. The opposite is true.

 

[torp]

Here is an interesting study done where subjects were put on DNP and T3 for a year with no noticable side effects.

United States Patent: 4673691

Just adding fuel to the fire

 

[NYhomeboy]

Lots of good info here. Conciliator, just curious as to what your background regarding DNP is... seems to me like you're the DNP guru now over at meso with all your knowledge/input. I must admit you've made me a DNP fan.

 

[Conciliator]

Lots of good info here. Conciliator, just curious as to what your background regarding DNP is... seems to me like you're the DNP guru now over at meso with all your knowledge/input. I must admit you've made me a DNP fan.

I got started in all this when I began logging my first DNP cycle. Lyle McDonald sent me a recent paper that talked about the history of treatments for obesity. It included a paragraph or two on DNP, so I printed it out and went to my university library to look up some of the oldest references. Fortunately, my library has an extensive periodicals section including these old volumes of JAMA. I began browsing some of the original studies and was surprised at what I found. They had studies looking at DNP with different diets, showing that they worked equally well. They explained that powder DNP was stronger than crystal, and not vice versa. They explained how much a particular dose of DNP would increase metabolism. They explained that weight loss appeared to be solely from fat stores. As I'd stop by the library and read these, I'd post about them in my log, which quickly became a hit. I had information in it that seemingly no one else on the net had ever heard before. With research into some of the recent studies, I found even more interesting things, like how DNP decreases mitochondrial free radical production (as explained above).

Fast forward a year later. I'm having lunch with Lyle McDonald and towards the end of the meal he says, "You know, you really should write a book on DNP." I said "yeah, I was thinking of writing a users guide, all of them out there are pretty bad." And he said, "no, you need to write an actual book. You know more about DNP that anyone else and people will pay for you to spend the time to get everything you know down on paper." We then talked about the practical considerations of printing books as he sells many of his own.

When I got back from lunch, I began writing an outline. Within a few hours, I had 17 chapters and an incredible amount of information to cover. I realized that there was indeed enough to write a book on. I then spent a few weeks just photocopying all of the original research and downloading and reading over 100 papers on things like AMPK, cataracts, and other aspects of DNP.

Since then, I've been working on the book. The completed book should be a magnum opus on dieting with DNP. It will cover every aspect of the drug that you could imagine and will be directed specifically to those who are using it for dieting.

This is why it seems like I’m a “DNP guru” over at Meso It's what I specialize in and what I enjoy talking about. There is a lot of misinformation about DNP, so I try to set things straight and help people understand how to use it when I have an opportunity.

 

[3clipseGT]

I got started in all this when I began logging first DNP cycle. Lyle McDonald sent me a recent paper that talked about the history of treatments for obesity. It included a paragraph or two on DNP, so I printed it out and went to my university library to look up some of the oldest references. Fortunately, my library has an extensive periodicals section including these old volumes of JAMA. I began browsing some of the original studies and was surprised at what I found. They had studies looking at DNP with different diets, showing that they worked equally well. They explained that powder DNP was stronger than crystal, and not vice versa. They explained how much a particular dose of DNP would increase metabolism. They explained that weight loss appeared to be solely from fat stores. As I'd stop by the library and read these, I'd post about them in my log, which quickly became a hit. I had information in it that seemingly no one else on the net had ever heard before. With research into some of the recent studies, I found even more interesting things, like how DNP decreases mitochondrial free radical production (as explained above).

Fast forward a year later. I'm having lunch with Lyle McDonald and towards the end of the meal he says, "You know, you really should write a book on DNP." I said "yeah, I was thinking of writing a users guide, all of them out there are pretty bad." And he said, "no, you need to write an actual book. You know more about DNP that anyone else and people will pay for you to spend the time to get everything you know down on paper." We then talked about the practical considerations of printing books as he sells many of his own.

When I got back from lunch, I began writing an outline. Within a few hours, I had 17 chapters and an incredible amount of information to cover. I realized that there was indeed enough to write a book on. I then spent a few weeks just photocopying all of the original research and downloading and reading over 100 papers on things like AMPK, cataracts, and other aspects of DNP.

Since then, I've been working on the book. The completed book should be a magnum opus on dieting with DNP. It will cover every aspects of the drug that you could imagine and will be directed specifically to those who are using it for dieting.

This is why it seems like I’m a “DNP guru” over at Meso It's what I specialize in and what I enjoy talking about. There is a lot of misinformation about DNP, so I try to set things straight and help people understand how to use it when I have an opportunity.

Awesome post bro and id buy ur book so you have a buyer here!

 

[ryano]

This is turning out to be a great log. I enjoy the debate.
I have done one cycle of crystal DNP 250 mg for 14 days. I was surprised that the intensity of the sides was miniscule given the all the logs and research I did before the cycle. This being crystal and not the powder. There were a few days were I bumped it up to 500mg but did not really enjoy being constantly damp and sweating. The lethargy at that dose does not seem to be bad and some simple carbs (gatorade!) or a bannana or two and a gallon and a half of water a day seem to alleviate the problem. Still not sure if I like the stuff or not but I have to admit I tolerate the sides of DNP better than clen or even ephedrine. Im not very fond of stims. I hate feeling panicky and wired all the time.

I think you will be pretty surprised at how you look 10 or even 15 days after the cycle. With the calorie deficit your on, provided that your getting some trainning in... I really see no need to bump the dosage your on and waste the DNP. The only problem with DNP I have is the lethargy and bloat and bumping it up is only going to increase that.. hindering your the intensity of your workouts.

Im glad I found concillators post and will be looking for that book once it comes out! Meanwhile I will check some of your post at Meso.

Anyhoo just throwing my 2 cents in.

Stay smart and stay safe. With any cylce you already know there are safety measures and precautions you take. Your health is this most precious thing you own.

 

[Conciliator]

Im glad I found concillators post and will be looking for that book once it comes out! Meanwhile I will check some of your post at Meso.

I've also posted as much or more on DNP over at the bodyrecomposition.com forums.

I plan to hang around here and post about it as well, as time permits.

 

[glenihan]

when would your book come out? i'd be interested in reading it ... always up to be educated

 

[Conciliator]

when would your book come out? i'd be interested in reading it ... always up to be educated

Right now it's looking like early next year.

 

[meowmeow]

My good friend. This is one of the greatest myths out there. DNP decreases ROS production by lowering the mitochondrial membrane potential (delta psi). ROS result from the "crowding" of electrons within the respiratory chain complexes I and III. Some of the "crowded" electrons then escape, not following the normal pathway. Uncouplers like DNP allow protons to leak though, increasing the permeability of the inner membrane, dropping delta psi, promoting the normal pathway, and decreasing ROS production. This is why uncoupling proteins are now thought to regulate ROS production: when their expression is increased by even a small amount, ROS production drops. Accordingly, we're seeing more and more studies like this.

So nix on the notion of cumulative damage, mutations, and aging. The opposite is true.

Apparently you are correct. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Here is a paragraph from a study that makes your point:

As an elevated µH+ (proton electrochemical potential gradient) favors superoxide production, limiting the magnitude of this gradient under state 4 conditions should decrease superoxide production (28). Artificial uncouplers such as 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP) make the inner membrane permeable to protons, thereby lowering the µH+ (proton electrochemical potential gradient), which accelerates respiration and consequently oxidizes the electron carrier pools (28,29). Uncouplers are typically lipophilic weak acids for which both the protonated and unprotonated forms are lipid soluble, thus enabling them to catalyze proton movement through the phospholipid bilayer by lowering the activation energy for proton leak. Even low concentrations of artificial uncouplers have been shown to lower the rate of superoxide production by mitochondria.

Source:
Prevention of Mitochondrial Oxidative Damage as a Therapeutic Strategy in Diabetes -- Green et al. 53 (Supplement 1): 110 -- Diabetes

References:

28 - Skulachev VP: Role of uncoupled and non-coupled oxidations in maintenance of safely low levels of oxygen and its one-electron reductants. Q Rev Biophys29 :169 –202,1996

29 - Harper JA, ****inson K, Brand MD: Mitochondrial uncoupling as a target for drug development for the treatment of obesity. Obes Rev2 :255 –265,2001

 

[NYhomeboy]

Wow... definitely going to buy your book when it comes out, and I expect a signed copy haha. You know, from everything I've been hearing about DNP, it seems like if it were administered w/ prescription (or just not to retards...) and taken carefully, it would do hundreds of multiple times what any diet drug does in terms of weight loss, with 0 sides. Hopefully your book can start a revolution of some sort

 

[meowmeow]

Here is an interesting study done where subjects were put on DNP and T3 for a year with no noticable side effects.

United States Patent: 4673691

Just adding fuel to the fire

That is interesting. The doses were real low 250mg every other day and 125mg on opposite days.

Also it brings up the fact that T3 becomes depleted with DNP intake over time.

The problem is that if T3 supplementation is necessary or advisable during a DNP cycle than taking it would make the cycle catabolic...whereas DNP by itself isn't catabolic.

 

[NYhomeboy]

I thought low levels of T3 were anabolic?

 

[Conciliator]

Apparently you are correct. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. Here is a paragraph from a study that makes your point:

It's funny that you post this study. This was the first one I saw that tipped me off that the oxdiative stress theory was bunk. After reading it, I went on to bodyrecomposition.com and posted this:

I just read an interesting article in the journal Diabetes that links the pathology of diabetes to the production of reactive oxygen species (free radicals) by the mitochondrial respiratory chain:
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org...3/suppl_1/S110

In their discussion, they mention two solutions: anti-oxidants (specifically vitamin E and Coenzyme Q) and, to my surprise, "artificial uncouplers such as 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP)." Now, you'd expect exactly the opposite when you consider the high-dose antioxidants that people typically take while on DNP. But is the rate of superoxide production actually lowered?...

What do you guys make of this?

No one had a clue. But after reading several more papers confirming it, and then the reasons why (as I explained), I was confident that ROS were actually reduced from DNP. Now there may be oxidative stress through other mechanisms, such as an AMPK induced increase in NOS or from a rare metabolite of DNP, but you can be sure that the primary source of oxidative stress, the mitocohondria, are producing little to no ROS. That's good news

 

[meowmeow]

...but you can be sure that the primary source of oxidative stress, the mitocohondria, are producing little to no ROS. That's good news

That is good news because very little CoQ10 supplementation makes its way into the mitochondria. On a side note maybe supplementation with IDEBENONE would be better because it has been shown to be protective of both the myelin sheath and the mitochondria. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Conciliator]

Also it brings up the fact that T3 becomes depleted with DNP intake over time.

The problem is that if T3 supplementation is necessary or advisable during a DNP cycle than taking it would make the cycle catabolic...whereas DNP by itself isn't catabolic.

I'm pretty skeptical of the idea that DNP causes a large drop in thyroid. I think some of the cases where thyroid levels have been found to be low are due not to DNP, but to suppression from T3 that was taken along with it (ironically, to compensate for a drop in thyroid).

A friend of mine is a doctor of internal medicine. He ran 600mg/day of DNP for 6 weeks and tested his thyroid levels frequently (being able to order his own blood tests). He said his thyroid levels didn't budge during the whole 6 weeks. He is skeptical as well.

I think that if there is a drop in T3 while dieting, it may be part of an adaptive response that spares LBM, since thyroid can be catabolic. Lyle McDonald has talked about this. Personally, I think it's best to leave thyroid alone while you're on a cycle of DNP, especially if the cycle is only two or three weeks. DNP will be able to overcome any drop in metabolism. Hundreds of people successfully took DNP in the original studies and consistently lost weight for months at a time, and all without touching T3.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Conciliator, I have a question for you bro. You said that most people can run a cycle indefinitely until they reach their desired weight/goal? If my weight is remaining completely stable, how will I know when I should drop? Or should I expect to start seeing drop in weight when DNP plasma levels stabilize and I am no longer increasing the amount of water that I am holding on to?

Also, I heard that DNP has no bearing on bodyfat setpoint... that would be amazing, considering one whose setpoint is naturally 15% bodyfat can now magically reduce that number. However, I thought setpoint was controlled by leptin, which should still be released from fatloss irregardless of DNP no?

 

[NYhomeboy]

Day 6

Day 1

Starting Weight
180.2

Dosage
400mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
Tried to do cardio this morning... but I couldn't. I could barely talk on the phone without going out of breath. I don't mind the sides much, however, and do want to take it to 600mg torwards the end of my cycle to see how it affects me, but that won't be for a while. I had a small sushi/whey cheat meal today... gave in to my carb cravings. Surprisingly, I'm not suffering much on my lifts because I gear up mentally before I hit the gym. I keep sayin this and I know the scale lies, but my weight NEEDS TO DROP! Otherwise I'll never know if I hit my goals or not and when to end the cycle.

 

[3clipseGT]

Thats the only thing i hate about TTA and DNP, they make you hold water like a mofugga so its hard to guage where ur at and when you should stop!

 

[ryano]

Day 1

Starting Weight
180.2

Dosage
400mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
Tried to do cardio this morning... but I couldn't. I could barely talk on the phone without going out of breath. I don't mind the sides much, however, and do want to take it to 600mg torwards the end of my cycle to see how it affects me, but that won't be for a while. I had a small sushi/whey cheat meal today... gave in to my carb cravings. Surprisingly, I'm not suffering much on my lifts because I gear up mentally before I hit the gym. I keep sayin this and I know the scale lies, but my weight NEEDS TO DROP! Otherwise I'll never know if I hit my goals or not and when to end the cycle.

:blink:
Your weight is dropping! Your holding water ! Quite buggin ...
Just wait till about 10 to 15 days after your cycle all that water is gonna come off and your muscles will become fuller and harder. Dont be afraid of some carbs too..DNP could care less.. keep them in moderation but some gatorade or a banana once in awhile makes me feel better. Same with drinking more water. It helps with the fatigue. Just keep the fat down to minimum thats what the DNP is going after.

Sounds like your workouts are going to ca ca. Thats to be expected..but reason enough not to bump it up. Keep it tolerable and you will be able to stay on longer. If you insist on bumping it up try alternating to lower doses for a day or two to give yourself a rest. That helped me in tolerating the sides. Also good if all of a sudden your best friend calls you to help move and its 90 degrees outside.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Day 7

Starting Weight
182.0
Today's weight
179.8 (-2.2)
Dosage
400mg

Supplements:
ALA
Calcium
Vitamin C
Multivitamin
Magnesium
NAC
B5

Notes
FINALLY below 180, which is where I started out at a few days before cycle (officially listed at 182... but was really 180). I feel awesome on DNP actually. It's sort of on and off... sometimes I feel lethargic as hell, but for 80% of the day I've been so used to the sides that I don't feel it. I actually like the feeling. I'm definitely going to try to bump it up to 600mg later on and coast from there. I'm pretty bloated right now... people don't exaggerate. It looks like I haven't been lifting and just pigging out on junk food. Diet's been decent... keep sneaking in relatively healthy cheats like a banana, some sushi, etc.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Sorry, the log's been kind of off. Just to summarize the last 2 days, I was feeling good with the sides so I bumped it up to 600mg and am taking venom. Barely feel any lethargy at all. I'll coast from here and out. I STILL HAVEN'T LOST ANY WEIGHT ON DNP!!! I weighed in at 181.2 after a bad day of dieting yesterday, but the other 6 days of dieting have been pretty solid at about 2300 cals/day. Every log I've seen, people have at least lost a few lbs. I'm down .8 lbs net.

 

[Popa Murph]

I still think pyruvate should be supplemented with DNP.

First run I don't think anyone should bump it up to 600.

You're mad bloated you have no idea how much weight you've lost.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Yeah bro I know I've lost weight. It's more gettin to me mentally than anything. However, wouldn't it make sense that there's a maximum amount of bloating/water retention that occurs (and doesn't keep increasing), so weight loss would be eventually reflected on the scale? Seems like that with other logs at least... At first I was thinkin not to bump it to 600, but I felt so relatively good on it and saw so a bunch of 1st timers bump to 600 on meso, so I decided to test the waters. Feeling good on 600 so I may just coast from here and not go down.

 

[Popa Murph]

This is pure speculation but I'd imagine the bloat is dose dependent. So everytime you were about to start seeing scale weight loss you bumped the dose and increased bloat. I have no idea but I don't think DNP is one of those things you can be a non-responder to. Maybe play around with your macros and see if that helps.

 

[NYhomeboy]

Hmmm, that's an interesting theory... In fact, that would make absolute sense. As DNP started to accumulate, I would always bump the dose up. More DNP plasma levels = more water retained = no "weight" loss. I'm pretty sure I respond to DNP, as I have all the sides -- I guess I just tolerate it better than most. I sleep with the AC at 60 degrees blowing straight at me, so night sweats, and Venom keeps the lethargy in check. Plus, having self-diagnosed hypothyroidism (i really need to check that out...) i'm pretty used to feeling lethargic all the time.