To EQ or not?

[Lethal]

I'm going to run:

Test-E @500mg ew weeks 1-12 (13 if i run EQ)
D-bol 30mg ed weeks 1-4

I have been throwing the idea of another compound for this first cycle as i want to take full advantage of fresh receptors. I've been thinking about EQ because the idea of increased appetite sounds just like what i need. But i hear running EQ for 12 weeks you dont really feel the appetite/vascularity until the end of the cycle.

This cycle will be a strict bulking cycle. Is the EQ a good idea or will it hinder my "bulking" gains during this cycle?

So what do you guys think about EQ @400mg ew weeks 1-12? thanks!

 

[jomi822]

I'm going to run:

Test-E @500mg ew weeks 1-12 (13 if i run EQ)
D-bol 30mg ed weeks 1-4

I have been throwing the idea of another compound for this first cycle as i want to take full advantage of fresh receptors. I've been thinking about EQ because the idea of increased appetite sounds just like what i need. But i hear running EQ for 12 weeks you dont really feel the appetite/vascularity until the end of the cycle.

This cycle will be a strict bulking cycle. Is the EQ a good idea or will it hinder my "bulking" gains during this cycle?

So what do you guys think about EQ @400mg ew weeks 1-12? thanks!

EQ is a good choice but yes, you will really not be able to enjoy its benefeits for very long with a 12 week cycle. EQ is also very mild.

the most classic bulking cycle would be dbol, test, and deca. low doses of each for 12 weeks in a beginner will give dramatic results. deca at say 300 or 400 a week would be fine. it also costs about the same as EQ

 

[glenihan]

don't use more than one compound first cycle you won't know which drug gave you which sides and how much of the gains

test e or cyp 500mg for 12 weeks .. diet and training are far more important anyway

 

[same_old]

deca or EQ are both good choices...but the EQ appetite stimulation is very real, and one of the biggest plusses. i prefer EQ - feels like it shuts you down less hard than deca, making recovery easier.

 

[liftbiggetbig]

you could try a short ester bold if you're brave enough but for a first cycle i wouldn't reccomend it, too much pinning.

i'm trying some bold base in a day or so, should get the effects pretty immediately but the pain is supposed to suck

 

[Lethal]

So would the extra gains from EQ even be worth the $$$? Will i put on more mass with EQ (i suppose so from the extra cals) right? But enough to justify the price?

 

[CHAPS]

You'd be fine to use the EQ but extend the cycle to around 16 weeks.

 

[same_old]

So would the extra gains from EQ even be worth the $$$? Will i put on more mass with EQ (i suppose so from the extra cals) right? But enough to justify the price?

dude, if you cant afford the $100 or so to run EQ for 12 weeks, then you shouldnt even be in the game.

there are a million gazillion threads on EQ. start searching. 9 out of 10 guys say 1 of two things: either "i loved it" or "it wasnt strong enough" - both are completely reasonable. it's up to the individual beyond that.

 

[CHAPS]

You could always see if you could find a ug lab that makes boldenone cypionate so you could get it cheaper and wouldn't have to run it as long. That's what i intend on doing because i don't like doing anything longer that 12 weeks.

 

[pistonpump]

Im going to do something like this for my first inject experience. weeks 1-4dbol, 1-? Eq 600mg, 1-1 week over the EQ test E @ 500mg week. My question seems dumb but is a real question, how many weeks can I expect from 30ml EQ 300mg/ml? I know the math says 15 weeks but from the vets do you get 13,14, or 15 weeks out of 30mls, due to loss etc.??? Sorry if its confusing the way I wrote it....

The reason I am doing both eq and test e for my first is that If the gains are there what does it matter which one it is from? If im happy with the gains from the cycle than EQ will be ran with any cycle involving long ester test. F deca im not trying to get that HUGE...Just hit 225-235lbs then cut. I want 210-215lbs <10% bf

 

[B5150]

The reason I am doing both eq and test e for my first is that If the gains are there what does it matter which one it is from?

The suggestion of using one for a first cycle was to be able to determine the source of any negative sides if you experience them.

 

[glenihan]

if you use more than one compound, how do you determine how much of what to use for later cycles? .. plus where do you go from there .. if you can make incredible gains on 500mg of test why throw in other stuff? save it for when you need it more

...everyone's in a rush to use as much gear as possible .. its so unnecessary .. you don't need a lot of gear! if you do .. your diet and/or training suck! end of discussion

 

[jminis]

if you use more than one compound, how do you determine how much of what to use for later cycles? .. plus where do you go from there .. if you can make incredible gains on 500mg of test why throw in other stuff? save it for when you need it more

...everyone's in a rush to use as much gear as possible .. its so unnecessary .. you don't need a lot of gear! if you do .. your diet and/or training suck! end of discussion

Can I get an AMEN!

 

[Skye]

So would the extra gains from EQ even be worth the $$$? Will i put on more mass with EQ (i suppose so from the extra cals) right? But enough to justify the price?

most people when they add EQ are adding it more for the effects then the gains. On its own the gains from EQ are mild, and you need to run quite a bit of it (its only half as strong as test so the starting dose is really 400 to 600mg a week or so)

you can front load the eq to reduce the build up time but I would stay clear of that for a first cycle.

Runing more then one steroid has good points and bad points, most steroids have a strong syringic effect with others and you lose that if you run only one steroid. On the other hand they are quite right above in what they say. you have to decide what the risk to benifets are and what they are worth to you.

good luck

 

[pistonpump]

most people when they add EQ are adding it more for the effects then the gains. On its own the gains from EQ are mild, and you need to run quite a bit of it (its only half as strong as test so the starting dose is really 400 to 600mg a week or so)

you can front load the eq to reduce the build up time but I would stay clear of that for a first cycle.

Runing more then one steroid has good points and bad points, most steroids have a strong syringic effect with others and you lose that if you run only one steroid. On the other hand they are quite right above in what they say. you have to decide what the risk to benifets are and what they are worth to you.

good luck

Very well put Skye. You deserve something for your knowledge...

That's more of the way I was looking at it. I can understand doing something like EQ with test for a first but with something like tren i would have a hard time justifying. Eq is the only thing that i would add as an injectable with test for the first time pinner. Its just not to complicated with sides from what i have researched and heard. My first time pinning will be a cycle of dbol test-e eq.

 

[glenihan]

i don't want to come across as a d*ck .. but if i do screw it

its really frustrating seeing people giving injectible cycle advice when they have NEVER done a cycle

i don't advise people on how to fly a helicopter or climb mountains ..why do people feel they are qualified to give advice on something as serious as putting exogenous hormones in their body when they have never done it but only read about it on the internet?

 

[pistonpump]

well obviously that's directed at me but its true i guess but I read alot of what actual people are doing and their feedback, like people on this board. I have never pinned and I will make that a point everytime i "attempt" to help someone again. I see your point glen and others should see your avatar and listen to your advice cuz apparently you did something right. Everyone is going to do what in their minds they think is best for them so with that being said all we can do is advise and be advised its what they or we do with it in the end that determines the outcome.

 

[torp]

you can front load the eq to reduce the build up time but I would stay clear of that for a first cycle.

Most certainly do NOT frontload EQ. One, it's debatable whether frontloading works. Two, That much EQ up front to build up a decent blood serum levels will probably make you a nervous wreck in short order. EQ's affect on GABA-ergic transmission is known to cause anxiety and panic attacks in many cases. Taken in moderate doses, you most likely won't have this problem but frontloading large doses of EQ is a great way to potentially trigger out of control anxiety.

If you don't like long cycles - dont use EQ. Period.

 

[same_old]

If you don't like long cycles - dont use EQ. Period.

boldenone is fine for short cycles...you'll need bold base transdermal or 1,4ad though. but yeah, true EQ is a really long ester - even the short blast cycles advocated by some authors are questionable with EQ.

 

[Skye]

Most certainly do NOT frontload EQ. One, it's debatable whether frontloading works. Two, That much EQ up front to build up a decent blood serum levels will probably make you a nervous wreck in short order. EQ's affect on GABA-ergic transmission is known to cause anxiety and panic attacks in many cases. Taken in moderate doses, you most likely won't have this problem but frontloading large doses of EQ is a great way to potentially trigger out of control anxiety.

If you don't like long cycles - dont use EQ. Period.

"blood serum levels" has little or nothing to do with it, it is the amount released from the depot vs. the amount taken. Frontloading only brings this equilibrium about quicker, short of doing it wrong you will never actually see more then your intended dosage. It would be no different really then using a bold base transdermal. Frontload is not of course advisable for a first cycle but I don't think it’s accurate to say that your going to see a increase of sides.

 

[torp]

"blood serum levels" has little or nothing to do with it, it is the amount released from the depot vs. the amount taken. Frontloading only brings this equilibrium about quicker, short of doing it wrong you will never actually see more then your intended dosage. It would be no different really then using a bold base transdermal. Frontload is not of course advisable for a first cycle but I don't think it’s accurate to say that your going to see a increase of sides.

I'm not arguing frontloading and its efficacy or saying there's an increase of sides when frontloading either- just pointing out a problem on EQ that's can be circumvented. Panic attacks and anxiety are hardly uncommon on EQ and is very dose dependent. Taking 300 to 600mg of EQ, most people are fine but when you start hitting the 800 to 1000mg mark, it has been known to cause strong anxiety. You may in the group that doesn't have this problem on EQ but if you aren't - well let's just say, it's not a forgettable experience. This is all in reference to a new user on EQ as an experienced user already knows what he can expect on this compound.

 

[glenihan]

but frontloading with 1000mg or whatever of EQ isn't the same as using 1000mg/week for a cycle

it just has to do with how much bold is actually available in the blood and the theory behind frontloading is that it will bring you up to your desired level (400, 600, whatever) quicker, so you shouldn't have any more sides (anxiety) during a frontload than you would on week 10 of a cycle

 

[Skye]

but frontloading with 1000mg or whatever of EQ isn't the same as using 1000mg/week for a cycle

it just has to do with how much bold is actually available in the blood and the theory behind frontloading is that it will bring you up to your desired level (400, 600, whatever) quicker, so you shouldn't have any more sides (anxiety) during a frontload than you would on week 10 of a cycle

exactly, and BTW is there any real evedence that the anxiety sides are dosage dependent? because while some people do seam to get this it doesn't seam (or I haven't seen it) that the dosage is much of an issue, the only person I know that had a problem with was running 400mg a week. And I have seen others run it at 1.2 grams (a waste IMO) without any problems.

 

[torp]

As equipoise was never intended for human use there isn't really a whole lot of information as to it's sides other than the feedback from users on various boards.. Most of my limited knowledge of it comes from my personal experience based on a few cycles I've done. I never had a problem till this previous cycle which was a test e/tren e/EQ 16 weeker when even at 600mg I was having major anxiety continuously. I mean I woke up with my muscles in a knot type of tension. I think for me, the tren brought the worse side of EQ out whereas before I never had an issue at 600mg. In fact I'm about to start another test/EQ cycle this week (crossing my fingers). When I started researching anxiety and equipoise, there was actually a decent number of people on various boards that seemed to get anxiety on EQ and some of the posts tend to indicate that dose does play into the picture.

Here was an interesting thread...

EQ Anxiety / Panic Attacks - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

[Apowerz6]

True indeed EQ is dose dependant as far as anxiety, but all is all if you are going to use EQ use it under 600mgs and longer than 12 weeks, and lastly listen Glen. More is not better. Although it brings dramatic effects- you now have to use that amount to make gains in the later on. 500mgs on TestE should be fine, keep it simple bro esp for a short cycle, and esp since you are not trying to compete.

 

[glenihan]

...what am i supposed to listen to?

 

[CHAPS]

Anyone here get anxiety from eq? And at what doses, i don't feel like having anxiety issues again.

 

[Skye]

As equipoise was never intended for human use there isn't really a whole lot of information as to it's sides other than the feedback from users on various boards.. Most of my limited knowledge of it comes from my personal experience based on a few cycles I've done. I never had a problem till this previous cycle which was a test e/tren e/EQ 16 weeker when even at 600mg I was having major anxiety continuously. I mean I woke up with my muscles in a knot type of tension. I think for me, the tren brought the worse side of EQ out whereas before I never had an issue at 600mg. In fact I'm about to start another test/EQ cycle this week (crossing my fingers). When I started researching anxiety and equipoise, there was actually a decent number of people on various boards that seemed to get anxiety on EQ and some of the posts tend to indicate that dose does play into the picture.

Here was an interesting thread...

EQ Anxiety / Panic Attacks - Bodybuilding.com Forums

I will read that link, I ask because I really have only seen it once with EQ. But in all honesty if you did not have a problem before the tren before that is where I would be looking at. but it is odd that the susceptibility doesn't seam to be related to dosage, I am sure that if you had that side more would be worse but what I am wondering is has anyone actually gotten that side by increasing the dosage? This is what I haven’t seen.

As for the other topic here is something I wrote about long ester, and I used EQ as an example. ChemicalFitness

 

[pistonpump]

Most cases look like the user was using 1ad I believe. Correct me if im wrong but wasnt that a boldenone prohormone that was on the shelf before? Im not sure if EQ is right for me seeing how i have minor anxiety at times but esp on weed. lol but i will still have a run at it @ 600mg week. Now being veiny at around 12% bf does that mean that RBC count is already high or something, like someone who is veiny should not take EQ? I guess you would have to talk to a doctor about RBC and blood thickness

 

[Skye]

Most cases look like the user was using 1ad I believe. Correct me if im wrong but wasnt that a boldenone prohormone that was on the shelf before? Im not sure if EQ is right for me seeing how i have minor anxiety at times but esp on weed. lol but i will still have a run at it @ 600mg week. Now being veiny at around 12% bf does that mean that RBC count is already high or something, like someone who is veiny should not take EQ? I guess you would have to talk to a doctor about RBC and blood thickness

not to start a fuitless topic but rec drugs and steroids really don't mix and I would avoid the combo.

 

[pistonpump]

not to start a fuitless topic but rec drugs and steroids really don't mix and I would avoid the combo.

re read my post i didnt say anything about me using rec drugs and steriods as a combo at all.:blink: I havent used in over 3 years but i was stating that i had anxiety on marijuana so i was wondering if that type of effect would be an indication on my effects with EQ. Sorry if I wasnt clear on my post. But read alot of those links with the anxiety reports alot of them were using 1ad.

 

[glenihan]

1ad was the prohormone to 1-test .. 1,4ad was the prohormone to bold

 

[Skye]

re read my post i didnt say anything about me using rec drugs and steriods as a combo at all.:blink: I havent used in over 3 years but i was stating that i had anxiety on marijuana so i was wondering if that type of effect would be an indication on my effects with EQ. Sorry if I wasnt clear on my post. But read alot of those links with the anxiety reports alot of them were using 1ad.

my bad then bro, I took as you were.

 

[pistonpump]

1ad was the prohormone to 1-test .. 1,4ad was the prohormone to bold

thanks for the correction glen!

 

[pistonpump]

my bad then bro, I took as you were.

ish all good.

 

[same_old]

try bold base TD or 1,4ad - if you get anxiety, you can stop immediately. with EQ you'll be stuck with it for at least a week. honestly most guys who get anxiety with boldenone (including me) find that it's tolerable, but noticeable. it actually forces me to calm myself down and focus on the task at hand, which is soemthing i need to do more often anyways.

 

[Apowerz6]

...what am i supposed to listen to?

I meant listen to GLEN! LOL:bb:

 

[pistonpump]

Im not asking for source

i would really like to get my hands on a bold base transdermal so that i can gauge my effects from it before the injects kick in, that way if it is a bad reaction i can save money and stop the injects earlier. I should have gotten some test prop too.

 

[same_old]

i would really like to get my hands on a bold base transdermal so that i can gauge my effects from it before the injects kick in, that way if it is a bad reaction i can save money and stop the injects earlier. I should have gotten some test prop too.

watch your wording.

 

[torp]

I will read that link, I ask because I really have only seen it once with EQ. But in all honesty if you did not have a problem before the tren before that is where I would be looking at. but it is odd that the susceptibility doesn't seam to be related to dosage, I am sure that if you had that side more would be worse but what I am wondering is has anyone actually gotten that side by increasing the dosage? This is what I haven’t seen.

As for the other topic here is something I wrote about long ester, and I used EQ as an example. ChemicalFitness

I most certainly agree that the tren had something to do with the anxiety on my last cycle as it is known to cause anxiety in users. That's why I'm dropping it out of my next cycle and seeing if I have any problems this time around.

I think your question is going to be difficult to answer about whether anxiety can be induced by increasing the dose. From what I've read it seems that if you are prone to anxiety on EQ, the dose that trigger the anxiety response vary greatly, and if you're one of those fortunate not to have this problem, then mega-doses of EQ won't give you anxiety. I've seen posts where some couldn't take 500mg of EQ but were fine at 400mg and others where it took a gram of EQ to get anxiety and conversely you see some that have taken 1.8 grams a week and had no issues whatsoever.

Part of the problem is that nobody can conclusively prove what causes anxiety on EQ. Some theories I've seen range from increased RBC and bloodpressure, decrease of GABA levels, to special metabolites. It could be any one of these or a combination and then when you add different peoples varying physiology into the picture, you get different responses. My take is that if you are a first time user of EQ, start at a low dose and work your way up. If you start getting anxiety, reduce the dose immediately. As same_old said, the sides should diminish within a week. Also if you have issues with depression and anxiety, this may not be the best compound for you so proceed with caution.

Thanks for the link, I've read that numerous times before and it's excellent information. Didn't know that was you that wrote it.

Here are a few more threads that might give you some insight into the EQ/anxiety debate...

Equipoise and Anxiety??? - INTENSE TRAINING

Does EQ cause anxiety? - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

[Skye]

i would really like to get my hands on a bold base transdermal so that i can gauge my effects from it before the injects kick in, that way if it is a bad reaction i can save money and stop the injects earlier. I should have gotten some test prop too.

actually if all you wanted to see if you were prone to the sides the oil itself can be found and is orally avalable about the same rate as a transdermal but the absorbsion rates are all over place. Still if all you wanted was to check for sides...

 

[pistonpump]

actually if all you wanted to see if you were prone to the sides the oil itself can be found and is orally avalable about the same rate as a transdermal but the absorbsion rates are all over place. Still if all you wanted was to check for sides...

what oil are you speaking of? Boldenone Undec.? Not sure i completely understand. Can you go into detail a little more?

 

[Skye]

what oil are you speaking of? Boldenone Undec.? Not sure i completely understand. Can you go into detail a little more?

EQ is an oil at room temp. it can be taken orally. Unfortunately it suffers from the same problem as test und. If all you want is to gauge the sides then this would work and be a little easier then making a transdermal. However the transdermal kicks ass in its own right.

 

[pistonpump]

EQ is an oil at room temp. it can be taken orally. Unfortunately it suffers from the same problem as test und. If all you want is to gauge the sides then this would work and be a little easier then making a transdermal. However the transdermal kicks ass in its own right.

Talking about bold undec right? you didnt say what type.

How much would you take? and how soon would you notice the effects?

Anyone tried this before?

 

[Skye]

Talking about bold undec right? you didnt say what type.

How much would you take? and how soon would you notice the effects?

Anyone tried this before?

300 to 600mg a day. yes boldenolone undecylenate. you would notice the effects within a couple of days. it does NOT work well but as I said if your just checking for sides.

 

[cleanEG]

This is a very interesting topic....I just picked up some EQ to run with my first cycle at 400mg/wk. I was going to use it for the same effects but as stated earlier, I wouldnt be able to gauge the cause of side effects correctly when stacking with 500mg/wk of TestE.

For those that have used EQ successfully, do you run it by itself for 16 weeks or have you thrown in some Test along with the cycle. Basically, I'm trying to figure out how I would use the EQ if I decide not to run it with my TestE cycle. As a cutter later on maybe? Any suggestions?

Keep the thoughts coming...great thread!

 

[kevinW]

run the eq 400 mg/week 1cc twice a week test e same if it is test e 250 then run at 500mg/ week1cc each twice a week Id start the test a week early to see if you react to test. eq just makes me eat my ass off run the dbol 30mg /day4weeks in the begining a the last 2weeks ru this cycle at least 16 weeks also run 1cc adex eod and hcg 500mcg every 4days look out you will grow and keep most if not all but a couple pounds diet must stay clean eq will make you want yo wonder off track

 

[Skye]

This is a very interesting topic....I just picked up some EQ to run with my first cycle at 400mg/wk. I was going to use it for the same effects but as stated earlier, I wouldnt be able to gauge the cause of side effects correctly when stacking with 500mg/wk of TestE.

For those that have used EQ successfully, do you run it by itself for 16 weeks or have you thrown in some Test along with the cycle. Basically, I'm trying to figure out how I would use the EQ if I decide not to run it with my TestE cycle. As a cutter later on maybe? Any suggestions?

Keep the thoughts coming...great thread!

ChemicalFitness

 

[pistonpump]

run the eq 400 mg/week 1cc twice a week test e same if it is test e 250 then run at 500mg/ week1cc each twice a week Id start the test a week early to see if you react to test. eq just makes me eat my ass off run the dbol 30mg /day4weeks in the begining a the last 2weeks ru this cycle at least 16 weeks also run 1cc adex eod and hcg 500mcg every 4days look out you will grow and keep most if not all but a couple pounds diet must stay clean eq will make you want yo wonder off track

pretty much what i was planning, with minor differences. like 300mg/ml EQ and proviron

Skye ,doesnt it seem like a waste of gear to take it orally?

 

[Skye]

pretty much what i was planning, with minor differences. like 300mg/ml EQ and proviron

Skye ,doesnt it seem like a waste of gear to take it orally?

Yes, a big waste really. I normally wouldn't even suggest it except in this case, if your worried about sides this would be a good way to test it, cheaper then make a transdermal and you can stop it at the first sign of problems. But at 20 to 30% absorbs ion rate it is a major waste of gear. But then again so is a transdermal if you think about it, its just that the transdermal is a much more reliable system then orally. Fina is actually better suited for oral dosage then the EQ even at approximately the same absorbs ion rate as it is far more even and reliable.