Dutasteride > Finasteride - this stuff is awesome

CEDeoudes59

CEDeoudes59

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I've been running Dutasteride (generic) for just short of 2 weeks. I am barely losing any hair now. I would have to estimate I'm losing 85% less hair than 5-10mg of Finasteride. This is obviously going to vary per person and some persons even experience a nasty shedding phase when starting Dutasteride.

No significant reduction in libidio.. but read below.

to be fair I'm using more than Dutasteride.
~550mg-700mg of Test Prop
5mg-7.5 of Finasteride Daily
Minoxidil w/ AA 1x/day
Minoxidil w/o AA 1x/day
Spiro 2% and 5%
Dutasteride .5mg
Apple Cider Vinegar (just found some randomly on sale at the store)

**How then do I 'know' it's the Dutasteride? Because Dutasteride is the only new edition to this stack which I've used on and off for ~2-3years. This stuff is awesome, hair is growing back pretty fast as well.. At 1.5mg a day and minoxidil (haven't done that yet) I really think most of us can regrow a significant amount. That's my opinion - remember that I'm also shooting a moderate amount of prop.

I wouldn't recommend using >2.5mg finasteride and >.5mg of dutasteride if you are off cycle. watch for gyno.
 

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Excellent feedback. Thanks for the info. Now if only it would be a little cheaper from the research site!
 

Rage (SoCal)

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Great feedback, CED. Glad it's working out for you. I've dropped my stack down to Spiro and Fina only. I'm going to be getting some AA and hopefully a laser brush when I gt around to it.
 
TripDog

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I've been running Dutasteride (generic) for just short of 2 weeks. I am barely losing any hair now. I would have to estimate I'm losing 85% less hair than 5-10mg of Finasteride. This is obviously going to vary per person and some persons even experience a nasty shedding phase when starting Dutasteride.

No significant reduction in libidio.. but read below.

to be fair I'm using more than Dutasteride.
~550mg-700mg of Test Prop
5mg-7.5 of Finasteride Daily
Minoxidil w/ AA 1x/day
Minoxidil w/o AA 1x/day
Spiro 2% and 5%
Dutasteride .5mg
Apple Cider Vinegar (just found some randomly on sale at the store)

**How then do I 'know' it's the Dutasteride? Because Dutasteride is the only new edition to this stack which I've used on and off for ~2-3years. This stuff is awesome, hair is growing back pretty fast as well.. At 1.5mg a day and minoxidil (haven't done that yet) I really think most of us can regrow a significant amount. That's my opinion - remember that I'm also shooting a moderate amount of prop.

I wouldn't recommend using >2.5mg finasteride and >.5mg of dutasteride if you are off cycle. watch for gyno.
what are you running 4 estro?i'm starting a test e cycle this week,and i take duta every once in a while,with reb xt.On cycle im gonna take it every day....thinking of getting some adex.
 
swoody

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I wish I could go back to my Avodart... but my insurance from work wont cover it. Bastards:) But I'm back to 5 mg finasteride with some 5% topical spiro and have the same effects as .5 mg of Avodart... so I can't complain:D
 
TeamSavage

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For those of you using dutasteride, are you using it for typical MPB or hairline recession? I don't have MPB in that I don't have a "bald spot" in the back, but my hairline is retreating. I've been using finasteride with some success, but I've also read that finasteride may not be too effective for just the hairline...

Anybody have any opinions on dutasteride for hairline specifically?

What about dutasteride compared to finasteride in terms of libido... noticed any difference?
 
Alpine

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I've been running Dutasteride (generic) for just short of 2 weeks. I am barely losing any hair now. I would have to estimate I'm losing 85% less hair than 5-10mg of Finasteride. This is obviously going to vary per person and some persons even experience a nasty shedding phase when starting Dutasteride.

No significant reduction in libidio.. but read below.

to be fair I'm using more than Dutasteride.
~550mg-700mg of Test Prop
5mg-7.5 of Finasteride Daily
Minoxidil w/ AA 1x/day
Minoxidil w/o AA 1x/day
Spiro 2% and 5%
Dutasteride .5mg
Apple Cider Vinegar (just found some randomly on sale at the store)

**How then do I 'know' it's the Dutasteride? Because Dutasteride is the only new edition to this stack which I've used on and off for ~2-3years. This stuff is awesome, hair is growing back pretty fast as well.. At 1.5mg a day and minoxidil (haven't done that yet) I really think most of us can regrow a significant amount. That's my opinion - remember that I'm also shooting a moderate amount of prop.

I wouldn't recommend using >2.5mg finasteride and >.5mg of dutasteride if you are off cycle. watch for gyno.
There is no doubt that dutasteride beats down DHT better than finasteride. It IS more effective too. The thing is at what cost? There are tons of people who claim perm. side effects from longterm use of finasteride. It doesnt even come close to dutasteride in terms of its effects on DHT. I think DHT is much more important in a male's system than we give it credit for. Experts such as Swale (vast HRT experience) are adamant about avoiding even the use of finasteride. Annihilating DHT can do some pretty crappy things.

I used finasteride and it did help. However, I eventually stopped because I was paranoid it was making me "softer" and making me deposit abdominal fat quicker/easier.

How long have you been taking duta?

Allopregnenolone (synthesized from 5AR) may prevent neurodegeneration

There is a huge yahoo group with tons of members with horror stories about perm crashes in libido and overall HPTA balance, gyno, depression.... the list goes on.

I certainly "thought" my lower abdominal fat was much more stubborn on it. Could have been my mind though. I am also getting older. :( Otherwise I didnt notice any other major side effects (luckily).

5-AR produces DHT from testosterone.
DHT is a hell of an androgen.
Androgens tend to have fat-burning properties.
Finasteride-mediated reduction in androgen (i.e. DHT) levels may lead to reduced fat burning.

Additionally, test spikes a bit when you first start taking it. Over the longterm though, I think it eventually leads to elevated estrogen levels.

There is no clear evidence that this is how it plays out. But its a theory. And one of the MANY side effects that people complain about.

Im still on the fence about using a 5-ar or not. Duta scares me a hell of a lot more than finasteride. I think its clear that the incidence of side effects with finasteride ARE higher than Merck initially let on with their reports/studies.

I'd give a lot of thought before taking finasteride. It is apowerful endocrine disrupter that causes permanent serious side effects in a much higher percentage of the male population than is published.

Ask the guys at the Finasteride Yahoo Group about their experiences. Finasteride use is not to be taken lightly.

Instead, use a topical shampoo with DHT inhibitors present. I provide a prescription strength Nizoral shampoo with a second DHT inhibitor in it for my patients. It works great, and no chance of systemic effects. There are many such products available out there. - SWALE
------------------------------
As long as you control estrogens, your prostate is not at risk. Estrogen is the true culprit in prostate morbidity (both BPH and prostate CA), not DHT.

If you have BPH, and you take DHT as a transdermal cream, your prostate will get better, not worse.

And I know about 400 guys who wish they had never taken finasteride before.

If you want to save your hair, use a DHT-blocking topical. - SWALE
-------------------------------
I'm just not in favor of finasteride use. It causes ED in many more men than the manufacturer publishes, by my experience, and some of them simply never recover. I'd stay away from it, in favor of the topicals. - SWALE
-------------------------------
All taken from Meso boards
SWALE has also pretty much broke down and discredited all that crazy ass **** Anthony Roberts was talking about in regard to finasteride for PCT and so on. If you read any of that stuff, I would disregard what he said. He had some very whacked out theories on many things but he sure made them sound good.

just some food for thought
 
pistonpump

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:goodpost:

Those are some great points anyone care to argue?
 
swoody

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I noticed a big drop in libido while I was on Dutasteride. Looking back now, the benefit wasn't worth the sides when I could have gotten the same effects with just 5 mg of finasteride and some topical spiro.
 
Alpine

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I noticed a big drop in libido while I was on Dutasteride. Looking back now, the benefit wasn't worth the sides when I could have gotten the same effects with just 5 mg of finasteride and some topical spiro.
IMO, 5mg is overkill. I understand the reasoning when on Test but I dont think its worth it. Even 1mg might be too much if you are worried about sides. .2mg has been shown to be nearly as effective as 1mg. You want to reduce DHT but not annihilate it.

Tokyo Women's Medical University, School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology 8-1, Kawada-cho, Shinjuku Tokyo, 162-8666 Japan. [email protected]

Finasteride is a type 2 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor that inhibits conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, a key mediator of male pattern hair loss (androgenetic alopecia). The objective of this study was to identify the optimal dosage of finasteride and to evaluate its efficacy and safety in the treatment of Japanese men with male pattern hair loss. In this double- blind randomized study, 414 Japanese men with male pattern hair loss received finasteride 1 mg (n = 139), finasteride 0.2 mg (n = 137), or placebo (n = 3 once daily for 48 weeks. Efficacy was evaluated by global photographic assessment, patient self-assessment, and investigator assessment. All efficacy endpoints showed significant improvement with finasteride therapy by 12 weeks (p < 0.05 versus placebo). At 48 weeks, 58%, 54%, and 6% of men in the finasteride 1 mg, finasteride 0.2 mg, and placebo groups, respectively, had improved based on assessments of global photographs. All efficacy endpoints were numerically superior for the 1 mg dose over the 0.2 mg dose at 48 weeks. Finasteride treatment was generally well tolerated. Finasteride 1 mgday slows hair loss and improves hair growth in Japanese men with male pattern hair loss.

1mg proscar

00 hours = 1mg
06 hours = 0.5mg
12 hours = 0.25mg
18 hours = 0.125mg
24 hours = 0.0625mg
30 hours = 0.03125
36 hours = 0.0156
42 hours = 0.0078
48 hours = 0.0039

0.2mg proscar

00 hours = 0.2mg
06 hours = 0.1mg
12 hours = 0.05mg
18 hours = 0.025mg
24 hours = 0.0125mg
30 hours = 0.00625
36 hours = 0.003
42 hours = 0.0015
48 hours = 0.00075

Personally, I would use .2-.5 off cycle and 1mg on cycle. Splitting generic 5mg pills w/ a pill cutter is very cost effective too. You want to take the least amount possible but still get a therapeutic dose. I'm leery of duta. It really puts a beating on DHT levels. Duta blocks type I and II at a higher percentage. Finasteride blocks to a lesser degree and only type II. There are no longterm studies on blocking AR type I and type II and what it will do to the body.

No matter what dosage, a quality minox/anti-androgen topical should be used at least once a day. Xandrox is good but overpriced. In the end, the true lesson is this: You cant fight genetics. If its in your cards to lose the hair, its going to go. You can fight it and slow it down some (not much). But its still going to fall out, especially if you use PH's/anabolic steroids. Do you want to take the risk of having longterm sides/disruptions in your endocrine system in order to squeeze out 3-4 more years of hair before you need to shave it with a 1 guard anyway? I sort of accepted my fate and threw in the towel. Whats the difference between balding and slightly less balding? You still look like your losing your hair. Dont be the guy trying to hold on to it and style it way beyond the point of no return. Then you just look like a delusional moron. LOL
 

same_old

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Do you want to take the risk of having longterm sides/disruptions in your endocrine system in order to squeeze out 3-4 more years of hair before you need to shave it with a 1 guard anyway? I sort of accepted my fate and threw in the towel. Whats the difference between balding and slightly less balding? You still look like your losing your hair. Dont be the guy trying to hold on to it and style it way beyond the point of no return. Then you just look like a delusional moron. LOL
EH, i disagree with those comments to an extent. if you are on the cusp between flat hairline and full-on receding hairline (a la McConaughey or Tobey Maguire or Jude Law), then there is a lot more you can do to mask the phenomenon, and you can certainly pull off "not receding"....also, up to a certain point girls wont even notice - it can easily be chalked up to just a slight widow's peak in their eyes.

so if a person is not on the downward spiral just yet, and finasteride doesnt hit their libido too badly, then i see no reason why they shouldnt at least give it a go. it isnt expensive or dangerous (if you watch out for sides manifesting and take breaks from time to time - also, get bloodwork if you can) and can have a huge impact on confidence.

still, they should understand that eventually, they are going to have to give up...but that can be said for virtually ALL vain pursuits, including aesthetic-minded weight training, wearing decent clothes, grooming yourself, etc...just because it will all be for naught eventually, doesnt mean you shouldnt have fun with it now..."Grand Folly" and all that - we knowingly do foolish things because we know that nothing ISN'T foolish, really.
 
swoody

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EH, i disagree with those comments to an extent. if you are on the cusp between flat hairline and full-on receding hairline (a la McConaughey or Tobey Maguire or Jude Law), then there is a lot more you can do to mask the phenomenon, and you can certainly pull off "not receding"....also, up to a certain point girls wont even notice - it can easily be chalked up to just a slight widow's peak in their eyes.

so if a person is not on the downward spiral just yet, and finasteride doesnt hit their libido too badly, then i see no reason why they shouldnt at least give it a go. it isnt expensive or dangerous (if you watch out for sides manifesting and take breaks from time to time - also, get bloodwork if you can) and can have a huge impact on confidence.

still, they should understand that eventually, they are going to have to give up...but that can be said for virtually ALL vain pursuits, including aesthetic-minded weight training, wearing decent clothes, grooming yourself, etc...just because it will all be for naught eventually, doesnt mean you shouldnt have fun with it now..."Grand Folly" and all that - we knowingly do foolish things because we know that nothing ISN'T foolish, really.
Exactly... I still have a full head of hair... my hairline has receeded slightly, and is only slightly thinner... and only to me. If you were to ask everyone else they would say it looks fine. But it WAS falling out at a rapid rate even before using any type of anabolic, and Finasteride has prevented it from getting worse very well. I think the sides on Finasteride are REALLY blown out of proportion... libido is fine, not any weaker strength-wise, my estrogen levels are fine, so unless I spontaniously combust or something it doesn't look like its doing any harm to me... and I doubt it will. FYI- I have been on Finasteride for 4 years now...never any problems... Dutasteride on the other hand gave me some problems with libido.
 
Alpine

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LOL, I didn't say it didn't work. I took finasteride for minor thinning. I have since stopped and I don't appear "balding" by most peoples standards. It did drastically slow hair loss. But it didn't stop it. I know its coming and I'm not fighting it.

Its all a matter is risk/benefit and thats something you have to decide for yourself. The point of the post was just to throw out some info for you potential users to think about. Just balancing the original post. Duta is not "awesome" imo. Does it thrash DHT levels pretty good? Yes, nd thats what makes it work. You decide....
 
wastedwhiteboy2

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duta and fina have the best results for me. I also have minox/AA, spiro, and niz shampoo that cant compare even when combined. I do agree with very low doses. I think I read somewhere that guys that are balding generally have higher dht levels. this theory seems to match me. so I just want to get those levels back down to normal or a little below.
 
swoody

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LOL, I didn't say it didn't work. I took finasteride for minor thinning. I have since stopped and I don't appear "balding" by most peoples standards. It did drastically slow hair loss. But it didn't stop it. I know its coming and I'm not fighting it.

Its all a matter is risk/benefit and thats something you have to decide for yourself. The point of the post was just to throw out some info for you potential users to think about. Just balancing the original post. Duta is not "awesome" imo. Does it thrash DHT levels pretty good? Yes, nd thats what makes it work. You decide....
Alpine your arguement is well taken... it did make me think, so there ya go:)
 
CEDeoudes59

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I wouldn't use more than .5mg of Duta while not on cycle.
side effects hit some more than others...
if finasteride gave you trouble, dutasteride probably will as well.
 
TripDog

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I mix the duta,with spiro,in a minox bottle.I only use duta topical.I'm also running a test e cycle.I had some bad experiences with using too much duta systematic....Believe me you don't want to eliminate dht.Duta has a very long half-life compared to fina.I take the fina orally,with tamox,and rebound xt on test cycle.
 
BigVrunga

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Does that Dutasteride seem to work for you when applied topically?
 
TripDog

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Does that Dutasteride seem to work for you when applied topically?
so far so good...i mix like 15 sqirts of duta,few droppers of spiro into a new bottle on minox.....smells horable....use only at night when i don't feel like getting any pussy...lol...let that dry then add the 5% spiro cream mixed with a deep conditioner
 
CEDeoudes59

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interesting
 
Fastflight

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Yep, the way I´d do duta would be transdermal, as well for spots and oily skin -works nearly too good, from whatrÌ´ve read on pub-med, in absorbing into the skin and might get systemic, if applied too much.
 
CEDeoudes59

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I squeezed about 15caps of dutagen in a bottle of minoxidil
 
TripDog

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How would you apply a pill to your scalp, not being sarcastic or anything.
Dutasteride can be acuired in liquid......thought that was pretty obvious
 
TripDog

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I wish I could go back to my Avodart... but my insurance from work wont cover it. Bastards:) But I'm back to 5 mg finasteride with some 5% topical spiro and have the same effects as .5 mg of Avodart... so I can't complain:D
can i have a link to spiro?
 
BigVrunga

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so far so good...i mix like 15 sqirts of duta,few droppers of spiro into a new bottle on minox.....smells horable....use only at night when i don't feel like getting any pussy...lol...let that dry then add the 5% spiro cream mixed with a deep conditioner
That's some DHT blocking thunder right there:) For me, 1mg Finasteride and 2% Spiro daily is keeping the shedding at bay. Combined with 15% minoxidil and the Laser Brush, ive regrown nearly all my hair and it looks like its here to stay, at least for now!

BV
 
Jarconis

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I just started taking dutas .5mg ED, and Ive noticed post shower I have a lot more hairs on me than usual, and I remember reading that most people experience a shedding phase when they switch, how long does this usually last for?
 
BigVrunga

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I just started taking dutas .5mg ED, and Ive noticed post shower I have a lot more hairs on me than usual, and I remember reading that most people experience a shedding phase when they switch, how long does this usually last for?
Shouldnt last longer than a month or so.

BV
 
TripDog

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That's some DHT blocking thunder right there:) For me, 1mg Finasteride and 2% Spiro daily is keeping the shedding at bay. Combined with 15% minoxidil and the Laser Brush, ive regrown nearly all my hair and it looks like its here to stay, at least for now!

BV
dude that combo i listed above has done wonders for the hair bro....I added nizoral into the mix......apply 30 minuits before i shower,(nizoral)let it sit for at least 30 mins,rinse....apply the super minox combo..i take oral finisteride like every 3rd day 5mg.....no problems at all with libido,wood....it is very possible with todays technology to stop hairloss....and grow it back...trust me!!!!
 

z28man

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dude that combo i listed above has done wonders for the hair bro....I added nizoral into the mix......apply 30 minuits before i shower,(nizoral)let it sit for at least 30 mins,rinse....apply the super minox combo..i take oral finisteride like every 3rd day 5mg.....no problems at all with libido,wood....it is very possible with todays technology to stop hairloss....and grow it back...trust me!!!!
I like the looks of that stack, although, don't know if I've got the patience to let the Niz sit for 30 minutes. Can you get a script pretty easy for finisteride and is the 15% minox pretty easy to get a hold of? What about the laser brush? I thought I read where guys were making these themselves. I'm just about ready to throw in the towl and go with a mach, but this thread has given me some hope. I don't have any balding in the back, just a receding hair line that's starting to thin pretty bad, pretty fast. Thanks for any help you guys can offer.
 
BigVrunga

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15% Minox is available from Balding

Cheap Laser brush from amazinglasercomb.com

good luck bro, you can do it. You have to be strict and regimented, but TripDog's right many guys can regrow their hair with the stuff available today.

The important thing is to start NOW. The earlier the better.
 
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