1 Gram Test E or Cyp good idea?

[pistonpump]

How do you people feel if someone did 1 gram a week of test e or cyp, if they did their research and had all ancillaries and proper PCT on hand? This is not for me just thought it should be discussed. Would this fall into the cat. of more is less or more is more?

The gains of 1st test cycle are much more effective than later cycles so why not take full advantage of that at 1 gram EW? yes or no and reasons for...

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I may be in the minority, but I saw go for it and keep a log

 

[Cuffs]

It all depends on the persons cycle experience. Some people do 3 grams EW. One rule to follow is, "more is not better." Never use AAS's as a crutch, but to assist with enhancing.

 

[Skye]

How do you people feel if someone did 1 gram a week of test e or cyp, if they did their research and had all ancillaries and proper post cycle therapy on hand? This is not for me just thought it should be discussed. Would this fall into the cat. of more is less or more is more?

The gains of 1st test cycle are much more effective than later cycles so why not take full advantage of that at 1 gram EW? yes or no and reasons for...

Actually someone I think did a comparison on this, gave one newbie something like 2 grams a week and another similar 500mg a week. They were watched to make sure that their diet and training was good. The result were what you would expect, the guy on 2 grams blew up big time. The problem with this is that growing that fast is not a good thing. What I never heard after that is was how much he kept in the long term (sort term he kept something like 80%), if he had any injuries and so on.

But a gram of test is not that bad for you compared to most other things, running a gram a week for a first cycle would probably healthier in most terms then some of these oral cycles’ people like to run. The test will not kill your liver, hurt your lipids as bad (as some), and will not make you feel as bad. Put in that perspective it really isn't that bad.

I still don't think that it is a good idea. I am convinced that slow and steady will win the race here. Gaining more weight faster may be fun but it also increases the danger of doing a cycle considerably. The rest of your body will not keep up. And if someone really wanted super charged cycle for a first simply compound the test with another steroid, deca, eq, even tren (really not good for a first cycle though) and you will get the benefit of the synergic nature of the stack.

 

[CHAPS]

Think of it this way, you run 1g of test for your first cycle, well where do you go from their? In no time at all you'll be running 2g's of test then 3gs+. I wouldn't go any higher than 750mg Test for your first cycle. If someone really wanted good gains they'd go with test+deca+d-bol or use eq instead of deca. For a first time user you could gain 20lbs+ of muscle. Hell even on 750mg test E or C alone you'll gain that much if your eating right.

 

[Rocky82]

FWIW I'm 5'10" 260 lbs and I never go over 2 grams per week in the offseason for bulking. I try to get away with less, which is often the case, 1200 mg, and sometimes even 1 gram. No less though at my size. But for a beginner I would say stay under a gram until you stop seeing gains at less. Why waste the money and side effects?


BTW, when you get 5 cycles or so under your belt I recommend everyone try 250 mg sust ED for 6 to 8 weeks. :twisted:

 

[CHAPS]

What were the gains like on that bad boy? In the future i'd like to try something like that.

 

[pistonpump]

how would one get 750mgs test in if they are in 250mg amps? 3 times a week or save in syringe?

 

[idunk42]

how would one get 750mgs test in if they are in 250mg amps? 3 times a week or save in syringe?

3x a week injections are fine.

 

[jmh80]

Skye - that was BDTR over at AnabolicReview.

He said he'd never do that again (give that much to a first timer) - but did it as an experiment.

 

[bpmartyr]

3x a week injections are fine.

3 amps 1x ew would be fine too. Maybe not "optimal" but I have yet to tell the difference between more frequent and weekly injections with long esters. If the amps were Sust or a similar blend then yeah, 3x ew.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

if it's truly a first cycle, 750mg will work just fine. I really think if you are at or close to your genetic limit - 750mg should be your first cycle.

as I found out one summer ago, if you have designer AAS experience - 500mg of test ain't sh_t.

Rocky82 - funny you discuss the Sustanon/Omna ED cycle. I was going to do just that a day ago. But it's on hold for now. It's the ultimate frontload - if you stack it with Dbol for 3-5weeks you'll blow up like crazy. That idea is on hold though

 

[mixedup]

well I am going to say the gains of first cycle are usually the best but not that much more effective the reason being on a test cycle people take alot more time off. than what people on this board seem to be doing on the otc oral designers.

first off injectable cycles are much longer than the 3-4 week oral cycles so here is an example of time off =time on +PCT

16week test cycle Pct 4-6 weeK time off begins after PCT If strictly a longer esther approx another 2-3 weeks after your last shot to start pct

that would be 2weeks + 6 weeks + 16 weeks 24 week lay off from anabolics that gives your body a rest of approx 6 months if you start right back up after time off.

Now an otc designer of 3 weeks clears right away so you start 4 weeks of Pct and then 3 weeks off total time off 7 weeks HUGE difference on the amount of rest from the above injectable cycle. thats is why the 2nd or 3rd oral cycle can be greatly diminished from the first one.

 

[CHAPS]

You guys should read Building The Perfect Beast if you haven't already some of the cycles in their are awesome, stuff like:


Day 1-30 200mg Test Prop
Day 1-30 50mg D-bol
Day 1-30 100mg NPP



The idea is to use short acting esters and/or, orals in the beginning to really boost IGF-1 levels, they should be more androgenic, then finish with a high anabolic. In my example i ran the d-bol and NPP throughout though. And then you add slin/gh/igf-1/pfg-2/MGF to the cycle above.

 

[mixedup]

You guys should read Building The Perfect Beast if you haven't already some of the cycles in their are awesome, stuff like:


Day 1-30 200mg Test Prop
Day 1-30 50mg D-bol
Day 1-30 100mg NPP



The idea is to use short acting esters and/or, orals in the beginning to really boost IGF-1 levels, they should be more androgenic, then finish with a high anabolic. In my example i ran the d-bol and NPP throughout though. And then you add slin/gh/igf-1/pfg-2/MGF to the cycle above.

sounds great but not for us on a budget bro. gh igf-1 all that stuff is expensive for alot of us

 

[CHAPS]

Maybe i didn't explain myself cleary, gh/igf-1 etc was extra, not necessary by any means.

 

[mixedup]

Maybe i didn't explain myself cleary, gh/igf-1 etc was extra, not necessary by any means.

oh i see well than yes by all means it looks great it looked great even with the extra stuff just not affordable for me.

 

[Skye]

Skye - that was BDTR over at AnabolicReview.

He said he'd never do that again (give that much to a first timer) - but did it as an experiment.

Thanks, couldn't remember ( I read it over at SM before they sold out to Loin nutrition.) I remember thinking that it was a hell of a thing to try out on someone.

 

[CHAPS]

I woulda tried it, lol.

 

[Irish Cannon]

i dont find 1g a week to be bad at all. im on about 800mg of prop ew right now and plan on bumping up to about 1400mg ew in a couple weeks. i agree with what was said about 500mg of test being nothing if you are used to seeing gains that some designer orals bring about in three to four weeks time. i also agree with skye...it seems that the slower the progress is made, the higher quality of the muscle. it seems to hold true that the longer it takes to put on muscle, the longer you will hold on to it in the long run. i may keep most of the muscle from a oral only cycle, but if im sick for a few days, i can say bye bye to it and i dont expect it to return unless i get back on cycle. anything i lose that i gained naturally seems to come back within a month. this is the same for gh. what you gain on gh you are going to keep. im starting to rid myself of the mentality that fast weight gain is better. im on test/tren right now. ive been on for about four weeks and have seen minimal weight gain. only a few pounds. at first this upset me, but if over the sixteen weeks im on i gain only 10lbs, but keep it all it will be well worth it. i put on 10 lbs in a month on pp and then i cought the flu and it all went out the window. what good is the weight if you cant keep it? slow, steady progress seems to be the best. only take what you need to make quality gains. anything other than quality is just something pretty to stare at for the time you are on. chances are you will lose the quickly gained weight. this is why i dont see much of a point to quick oral only cycles. i do however believe that an oral used in conjuction with test can help to solidify gains. the longer you hold on to the weight the longer you will keep it. if i gained 12 lbs on sd in three weeks and then lost it somewhere within four months of being off it would have been a waste. but if i gained 12 lbs on sd in three weeks and was on 750mg of test ew for another 10 weeks the gains should stick better.

 

[Rocky82]

What were the gains like on that bad boy? In the future i'd like to try something like that.

Well I did it on a 4500 cal bulking diet with slightly sub-optimal carbs (for me thats around 250-300 g per day, normal all out bulk is 500 g per day) and I gained 20 lbs in 6 weeks and dropped an inch off my waist. I was doing cardio but still...the "bloat" was all intramuscular and non-interstitial. No big gut, no fat face. And even though you pin for 6 weeks, it's really an 8 week cycle because of some of the long esters in sust that build up such a hi concentration over 6 weeks of ED administration.

The only warning I have against this is uncontrollable libido. I was getting spontaneous erections at work all throughout the day and made my gf's life hell for about 2 months. 2-3 times a day and I still wanted more.

With regard to the cycles you mentioned, I learned a good trick from some competitive bber's who start off their 12 week pre-contest cycles with 4 weeks of sust ED, then the last 8 weeks are primo, winny, and fina with GH throughout. This allows the androgens to build up and taper off a few weeks out from the show so there's no bloat. Neat little trick.

 

[CHAPS]

That's sic Rocky i'll definitely give that a try. And ya i had to bump the test up to 750mg on my first cycle because of all the M1t and 1-test/4-ad cycles i did.

 

[Rocky82]

I'd much rather run a gram of test a week for 3 months than 2 M1T cycles in the same period. The gains will be about the same but the big difference is that the ones you make on test will have a greater likelihood of staying (with proper PCT) and you'll feel an assload better on a gram of test than on M1T or SD. That being said, using M1T or SD for the first 3-4 weeks of a long test enan or cyp or even sust cycle would be...well...I'll tell you in a few months (with deca and insulin too) :twisted:

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I'd much rather run a gram of test a week for 3 months than 2 M1T cycles in the same period. The gains will be about the same but the big difference is that the ones you make on test will have a greater likelihood of staying (with proper post cycle therapy) and you'll feel an assload better on a gram of test than on M1T or superdrol. That being said, using M1T or SD for the first 3-4 weeks of a long test enan or cyp or even sust cycle would be...well...I'll tell you in a few months (with deca and insulin too) :twisted:

I can tell you right now..MWWWAHAHAHA..

Anyway, it was good. I am bookending it Rocky, it's going to be nice. I have to say thus far I am disappointed in the anabolism of my Test, might have to bump to 750mg...


:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[CHAPS]

I bumped mine to 750mg for my first cycle, i needed it.

 

[shoestring]

1g of anything is rediculous for a first cycle. Try one amp every 5 days for 10 weeks. Take advantage of the fact that you will blow up on a small amount. I gained 30lbs on 250-300mg of test-e. So could I have gained 120lbs on a gram? lol.. Don't abuse your body...

 

[kwyckemynd00]

1g of anything is rediculous for a first cycle. Try one amp every 5 days for 10 weeks. Take advantage of the fact that you will blow up on a small amount. I gained 30lbs on 250-300mg of test-e. So could I have gained 120lbs on a gram? lol.. Don't abuse your body...

What was your starting weight? How much BF was gained?

Honestly, 500mg/wk of test cyp is NOTHING compared to 20mg/wk of Superdrol or comparable oral. If you're prob 180lbs to start (and relatively lean), 500mg/wk is great. If you're much over 210 or so (and relativley lean), I think 500mg/wk isn't going to work well for most people.

IMO its not the number of cycles you've run so much, moreso your size.

 

[CHAPS]

I've also heard that 20mg of superdrol is way more potent than 500mg of test e/c. I started my first cycle at 500mg of test e and i weighed 265lbs i believe and 500mg wasn't doing much for me, 750mg did work but i still wish i had of done a more aggressive first cycle. Like 750mg test e+400mg eq+30mg d-bol to kickstart. I know most say it's how many cycles you've done but i think size plays an important role as well. If you already very advanced then i wouldn't see a problem with 1g of test and by very advanced i mean 250lbs+. Before my test only cycle I had done, 1 4-ad+ 1-test trandermal cycle and 3 M1t cycles. I've only done 2 cycles now, my last one was 150mg prop eod+ 75mg tren ace eod. I did lose a fair amount of fat my diet was perfect but i did expect more. I did find out that my tren was dosed at 30mg/ml though! For my next cycle i wanna do a cutter what do you guys think about these doses:

Weeks 1-14 750mg Test E
Weeks 1-14 500mg Tren E
Weeks 1-4 100mg Tren Ace eod
Weeks 1-4 200mg Test prop eod
Weeks 1-16 50-75mg Proviron
Weeks 1-16 .5mg cabaser m/f
Weeks 4-16 250iu's hcg m/t

I'd run the necessary stuff like cycle support and such. I think I need my doses to be higher, like i regret not bumping my dose of test up to 1g of my first cycle. I haven't weighed myself in 4 weeks but 4 weeks ago i was 275lbs at around 14% bf, I KNOW i've put on muscle since then from DC training.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Bingo...weight

700 prop is "okay" for me right now. Nothing spectacular. Keeps me gaining, however, even without busting my balls. Just not the same as SD or DBol, etc.

 

[bpmartyr]

That's it. I'm gonna do 1.5g's a week. Getting randy just considering it.

 

[CHAPS]

Any opinions on my doses? If someone has a better stack by all means post it. And BP 1.5g of test would feel aweeeeeeeeesome, go for it and keep me posted :twisted:.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Chase, I'd just bump it to 1g even. You're a big guy. give it a shot (no pun intended)

 

[pistonpump]

chaps that is what i was getting at is doing a more aggresive first cycle. everyone suggests test only cycle with maybe an oral but i was thinking of eq as well and oral start and finish. why not take advantage of the virgin receptors? haha I think 1 g is to much for me tho but i am definately considering eq with test as first injectable cycle.

 

[CHAPS]

Ya pistonpump i'd do somethign like this if i were you:

Weeks 1-14 500mg Test E
Weeks 1-14 400mg Eq
Weeks 1-4 20mg Superdrol
Weeks 12-16 20mg Superdrol
Weeks 1-16 50mg Proviron
Weeks 4-14 250iu's Hcg m/t

Then follow up with 8 weeks of novadex XT+retain, and use nolvadex for the first 4 weeks along with the above stuff. I chose superdrol for the oral for your cycle after hearing all the insane gains ppl get from it plus it's highly anabolic and only a little androgenic so it's also perfect to book end you cycle with as well. This cycle could net a first time user 25-30lbs easy. Probably 15lbs from the superdrol alone.

 

[CHAPS]

And ya kwyckemynd00 i'm going to bump my test up but to 1g. Depending on what i use alone with it obviously.

 

[Rocky82]

I've also heard that 20mg of superdrol is way more potent than 500mg of test e/c. I started my first cycle at 500mg of test e and i weighed 265lbs i believe and 500mg wasn't doing much for me, 750mg did work but i still wish i had of done a more aggressive first cycle. Like 750mg test e+400mg eq+30mg d-bol to kickstart. I know most say it's how many cycles you've done but i think size plays an important role as well. If you already very advanced then i wouldn't see a problem with 1g of test and by very advanced i mean 250lbs+. Before my test only cycle I had done, 1 4-ad+ 1-test trandermal cycle and 3 M1t cycles. I've only done 2 cycles now, my last one was 150mg prop eod+ 75mg tren ace eod. I did lose a fair amount of fat my diet was perfect but i did expect more. I did find out that my tren was dosed at 30mg/ml though! For my next cycle i wanna do a cutter what do you guys think about these doses:

Weeks 1-14 750mg Test E
Weeks 1-14 500mg Tren E
Weeks 1-4 100mg Tren Ace eod
Weeks 1-4 200mg Test prop eod
Weeks 1-16 50-75mg Proviron
Weeks 1-16 .5mg cabaser m/f
Weeks 4-16 250iu's hcg m/t

I'd run the necessary stuff like cycle support and such. I think I need my doses to be higher, like i regret not bumping my dose of test up to 1g of my first cycle. I haven't weighed myself in 4 weeks but 4 weeks ago i was 275lbs at around 14% bf, I KNOW i've put on muscle since then from DC training.

Doses look fine chaps for someone of your size. 14 weeks is a big long for tren IMO but whatever u feel works best for you. I've never tried tren enan before and the most I did tren ace was 125 mg EOD for 8 weeks. Try the test out at 750 and if by week 6 you're holding too much water I'd bump it down to 500 (you shouldnt be though). At that level you'll be able to still complement the tren nicely and you'll prevent any sexual sides from the tren.

 

[CHAPS]

I've seen guys run Tren for 16 weeks+, i'm not worried about running it 14 weeks, i just love the fatburning/strength gains on it.

 

[motiv8er]

if it's truly a first cycle, 750mg will work just fine. I really think if you are at or close to your genetic limit - 750mg should be your first cycle.

as I found out one summer ago, if you have designer anabolic steroids experience - 500mg of test ain't sh_t.

Rocky82 - funny you discuss the Sustanon/Omna ED cycle. I was going to do just that a day ago. But it's on hold for now. It's the ultimate frontload - if you stack it with Dbol for 3-5weeks you'll blow up like crazy. That idea is on hold though

That is actually what I am doing to a lesser extent right now. I am hitting sust at 750mg per week and I am slowly adding in 10mgs of pherplex as I already had a nosebleed today. I am 4 days in, check out my cherry popping thread if you care to view the project...

I am 7-9 designer oral cycles under my belt, and an old fan of 4-ad and 1-test td. I weigh 222lb at 6'3 plus. My diet and training are very miticulous. I ate a small village of lean Mexicans last week to prove that.

 

[Skye]

I've also heard that 20mg of superdrol is way more potent than 500mg of test e/c. I started my first cycle at 500mg of test e and i weighed 265lbs i believe and 500mg wasn't doing much for me, 750mg did work but i still wish i had of done a more aggressive first cycle. Like 750mg test e+400mg eq+30mg d-bol to kickstart. I know most say it's how many cycles you've done but i think size plays an important role as well. If you already very advanced then i wouldn't see a problem with 1g of test and by very advanced i mean 250lbs+. Before my test only cycle I had done, 1 4-ad+ 1-test trandermal cycle and 3 M1t cycles. I've only done 2 cycles now, my last one was 150mg prop eod+ 75mg tren ace eod. I did lose a fair amount of fat my diet was perfect but i did expect more. I did find out that my tren was dosed at 30mg/ml though! For my next cycle i wanna do a cutter what do you guys think about these doses:

Weeks 1-14 750mg Test E
Weeks 1-14 500mg Tren E
Weeks 1-4 100mg Tren Ace eod
Weeks 1-4 200mg Test prop eod
Weeks 1-16 50-75mg Proviron
Weeks 1-16 .5mg cabaser m/f
Weeks 4-16 250iu's hcg m/t

I'd run the necessary stuff like cycle support and such. I think I need my doses to be higher, like i regret not bumping my dose of test up to 1g of my first cycle. I haven't weighed myself in 4 weeks but 4 weeks ago i was 275lbs at around 14% bf, I KNOW i've put on muscle since then from DC training.

well to be honest that looks more complacated then necessary. I would simplify it a bit on the part of the tren.

1 to 14 tren e 500mg a week
1 to 14 test e 750mg a week
1,2,3,4 test prop 100,75,50, 25mg ed or double eod
15 and 16 100mg ed
250iu of hcg weeks 1 to 16 (week 4 will work fine) 2 to 3x week as needed.
If need 25mg proviron ED for anti e, 50mg if something fails to come up for some reason (at 750mg of test I doubt that.)
I would not use the cabaser unless you need it. If yoru worried about gyno I would run a serm in the cycle instead, help with the lipids anyways and it is much safer.

JM2C

 

[CEDeoudes59]

That is actually what I am doing to a lesser extent right now. I am hitting sust at 750mg per week and I am slowly adding in 10mgs of pherplex as I already had a nosebleed today. I am 4 days in, check out my cherry popping thread if you care to view the project...

I am 7-9 designer oral cycles under my belt, and an old fan of 4-ad and 1-test td. I weigh 222lb at 6'3 plus. My diet and training are very miticulous. I ate a small village of lean Mexicans last week to prove that.

Sounds good. Careful on the eating though. I should be exhibit A idiot for this. For those oral short runs - I'd stuff my face and more so in post-cycle. With the injectables, relax a bit... wait until it really kicks in to start eating big. Longer cycles, you should have less of a sense of urgency. A pound a week is solid. With the designer orals, if I didn't get a pound every two/three days I flipped out and broke something. The end result was a fat angry bitter kid. haha,

That's why I would either frontload or kickstart EVERY cycle. Even at 750mg of Sust/Omna at week, it will still be 4-5weeks until the stuff is in full effect. use roidcalculator to find out when exactly.

 

[CHAPS]

That looks good Skye! But what's wrong with the cabaser? I don't wanna run the cycle without it, not just for gyno but raised prolactin levels is one of the reasons that deca and tren shut you down so hard.

 

[DragonRider]

What was your starting weight? How much BF was gained?

Honestly, 500mg/wk of test cyp is NOTHING compared to 20mg/wk of Superdrol or comparable oral. If you're prob 180lbs to start (and relatively lean), 500mg/wk is great. If you're much over 210 or so (and relativley lean), I think 500mg/wk isn't going to work well for most people.

IMO its not the number of cycles you've run so much, moreso your size.

I'm living proof of this. I did my first cycle after training naturally for 20+ years. I was in my early 40's and already weighed 230lbs. I tried 500mg of test cyp for my first cycle and I could not tell that I was taking any steroids. No strength or size gains period.

I NEED 1g per week before I see anything.

 

[Rocky82]

I'm living proof of this. I did my first cycle after training naturally for 20+ years. I was in my early 40's and already weighed 230lbs. I tried 500mg of test cyp for my first cycle and I could not tell that I was taking any steroids. No strength or size gains period.

I NEED 1g per week before I see anything.

I agree here 100%. I started using AAS at 230 lbs as well, although I was 23. I tried running that 500 mg test, 30 mg dbol first cycle and didnt get much. I found that I needed about a gram of test to see anything and 50 mg dbol daily. The only thing that seems to give me gains at low doses is tren. I can get by at 100 mg eod of tren ace. And I only utilize deca for joint lube so 400-500 mg is what i use now, and I'm in the mid 250's.

FWIW, here's my cynical theory as to why people think 500 mg test works. Because there are so many guys out there that either turn to AAS way too early and/or just use them to get a quick fix, i.e. a cycle for the summer. And since they are nowhere near their genetic max and are so young, they blow up quite easily on low doses. However, everyone's body chemistry is different. Some have more sensitive androgen receptors. But be that as it may, it's always best to stay with the lowest dosage possible as long as you are making gains.

 

[CHAPS]

:goodpost: This makes alot of sense, 500mg of test E felt like nothing to be honestly, maybe a mood lift, 750mg made me feel good, i put on 15lbs but it really wasn't anything to write home about, not much strength gains either. I used tren once and because it was overdosed i was only getting 120mg/week! But i still got good strength gains and fatloss, packed on a couple pounds as well, all this while dieting! The longer you've been training naturally the more androgen receptor sites your body has, so you can use higher doses and those dosages will be used effectively by your body unlike some guy who has been training for 2 years and hops on 1g of test. Their was an AWESOME article called "WHY YOU SHOULD WAIT", i believe it was called in Muscular Developement a while back and they posted stories about guys who trained naturally for 8-10 years and they hopped on 1g+ of test and gained 30lbs+. People have to keep inmind that M1t, 1-test, superdrol etc are all steroids as well so those past cycle DO count, so keep that inmind when dosing. Personally i think the average dose should be in the neighborhood of 750mg Test E/C to start. This is also what Dave Palumbo suggests.



Rocky you sound like your in the same boat as me, now i know who to talk to when i'm comin up with a cycle:twisted:.

 

[Rocky82]

Any time CHAPS. I'd be open to anything you have to share and willing to give any assistance I can. It's an ever-evolving process and the quicker you learn how to read your own body, the better off you'll be. Admittedly many pro's claim to have only learned their bodies after competing in a Mr O comp!! Imagine how much better they'd be if they have seen the light sooner. And by this I mainly am referring to diet, but also what kind and what doses of anabolic steroids to use. Personally, I fell in to the trap of trying pretty much everything under the sun when I first started. But now all I use is test, deca, tren, igf-1, and insulin. Cutting cycle is test/tren, bulk is test, deca, slin/igf-1. When bulking I get my strength from the test and lots of creatine. When cutting I rely mainly on the tren and just use the test to prevent sexual sides. The only orals I use now are the left over OTC's like superdrol, M1T, Halodrol, TST, etc. Once they're gone i wont use any orals at all. Again, this is what works for me, Everyone's different.

And as I always preach, it's at least 70% diet. If your diet blows dont even bother training, let alone wasting time and money on anabolic steroids.

 

[CHAPS]

Well said, well i already know i don't ever wanna use winny, why use something that weakens your joints THAT much and causes joint pain? Well i'm curious so i still intend on trying just about everything under the sun, lol. I'm most excited about the gh though, for it's fatburning effects. I also LOVE stuff that jacks up strength so androgens . Test+Tren+D-bol is a cycle i'm dying to do. And yep i agree about the diet, that's how i got so big naturally, through diet, and specific timing of nutrients and supplements. Most would be shocked how far you can go naturally.

 

[motiv8er]

Well said, well i already know i don't ever wanna use winny, why use something that weakens your joints THAT much and causes joint pain? Well i'm curious so i still intend on trying just about everything under the sun, lol. I'm most excited about the gh though, for it's fatburning effects. I also LOVE stuff that jacks up strength so androgens . Test+Tren+D-bol is a cycle i'm dying to do. And yep i agree about the diet, that's how i got so big naturally, through diet, and specific timing of nutrients and supplements. Most would be shocked how far you can go naturally.

Word. :bb2:

 

[Skye]

That looks good Skye! But what's wrong with the cabaser? I don't wanna run the cycle without it, not just for gyno but raised prolactin levels is one of the reasons that deca and tren shut you down so hard.

side affects, and it affects more then just the prolactin. In my mind (such as it is ) its something at I would run only if I need to do so, that is to treat a problem.

 

[CHAPS]

What specific sides are we talking here?

 

[pistonpump]

im going to do this in jan most likely:

1-14 test e 750mg
1-13 eq 600mg
1-5 dbol 30mg
12-16 superdrol 20mg or winny 50mg
12-16 hcg 500iu week
17 hcg 1500iu

arimidex as needed or proviron as needed if libido goes south

PCT:nolva clomid retain fenu maca

how does this look? just briefly im still in the long term planning process. just looking at what i want to do ahead of time.

lastly how does would i dose the eq and test that would be 3 ml each for a week. would it be ok to do 2ml test 1ml eq on say mon. and then 2ml eq 1ml test on thurs.?