1AD, 4AD and......?

[INWORK]

Early November I will start a bulk stack and include the last of my 1AD / 4AD (both are Ergopharm{orals}). This is what I will be doing;

WK1.....4AD..300mg
WK2.....4AD..600mg.....1AD..400mg
WK3.....4AD..900mg.....1AD..500mg
WK4.....4AD..900mg.....1AD..600mg
WK5.....4AD..1200mg...1AD..700mg

I want to add a "kick start" to the beginning. What do you guys recommend?

M1T (LG) 10mg for the first two weeks or PP 20mg WK1 / 30mg WK2?

Or do you recommend I add MTRN to the end to try and "dry" out the gains?

I am just wanting your opinions on what, if anything I should add to the 1AD / 4AD...

On hand---1AD(155), 4AD(180), M1T(80), SDROL(3 bottles), PP(two bottles), MTST(90), and MTRN(180).

I'm well versed on post cycle therapy, diet, training, etc. Also this will be my 5th cycle over the last 2 1/2 years. Out of these options I have not ran M1T, PP, MTST or MTRN. Other cycles have included 1AD, 4AD, SDROL, WINNY and HALODROL.

Stats;
37 year old male
175lbs @ 13.5% BF (finishing up post cycle therapy from a winny/halodrol cycle)

Thanks guys...

EDIT.....I will not go TOO crazy (high) with calories or get lazy with cardio. I've worked hard getting rid of fat and do not want to put it ALL back on. I understand some will come with a bulk, I just want to focus on keeping it to a minimum...

 

[same_old]

i would start injecting if i were you. too many orals. and winny/halodrol? that's pretty irresponsible. with 5 cycles you should be more than 175# (no offense) unbless you are 4'11"

also, i think you should run the 1-ad for more than 4 weeks.

i vote for a dry compound to work into this very wet cycle...winny, halo, var, or maybe SD. and using the term "kickstart" is a misnomer - the things you are using begin to work immediately as they are bases. no 4-week cycle ever needed a "kickstart".

also, the doses you are looking to use suggest that you got limited results from lower doses...and at your low bodyweight that just shouldnt happen - i cant help but reckon that your diet is not in order.

 

[Grassroots082]

There are no esters, why "kick start"? How tall are you?

Your stack looks fine as is, nothing else needed. Anabolics are only mildly anabolic and pale in comparison to food. Adding a methyl to the group would hurt more than it would help IMO.

 

[INWORK]

i would start injecting if i were you. too many orals. and winny/halodrol? that's pretty irresponsible. with 5 cycles you should be more than 175# (no offense) unbless you are 4'11"

also, i think you should run the 1-ad for more than 4 weeks.

i vote for a dry compound to work into this very wet cycle...winny, halo, var, or maybe superdrol. and using the term "kickstart" is a misnomer - the things you are using begin to work immediately as they are bases. no 4-week cycle ever needed a "kickstart".

also, the doses you are looking to use suggest that you got limited results from lower doses...and at your low bodyweight that just shouldnt happen - i cant help but reckon that your diet is not in order.

I appreciate and value your opinion(s). I also appreciate the way you stated your opinions without it coming across a harsh personal attack. Constructive critism is always welcome. This is why I post / ask questions.

As far as my weight, I am down from 196 that I weighed in Feb. of this year. My BF% is down a great deal because of this. This IS the least I've weighed in years and I am ready to add some mass back to my body. I've been cutting for months now.

The doses I gathered from using the SEARCH engine and seem to be what most recommended. I am open to start at lower doses and running it longer as you suggested. Do you have a dosing scheme in mind? Please include how you would run the SDROL with this stack.

And you're right..."kick start" was the wrong term. I was thinking of the M1t because it "seems" to be more fast acting than other compounds, making week 1 and 2 more productive. That was my intent.

I'll dig deeper into my diet. I feel it is pretty good but of course there is always room for improvement!!!!!!

Last thing, I really can't say much about the Winny / Halodrol stack as far as how irresponsible it was. This is what I posted on this board when I gave my review on this stack on 06/29----

"BTW......This was a good cycle for me but as most of you know it is two toxic orals. I've had no bloodwork done so I cannot speak for my insides. I'm only reporting my experience and am not recommending this to anyone. KNOW THE RISK."

Thanks again for a great reply!!!

 

[Werewolf]

M1T wouldn't be a good choice because it is super supressive of your Natty Test. Natty TEST and estrogen go to 0 in 3 days and stays down for 11 days after you stop taking M1T. 30 mgs of superdrol or PP is too much. I recommend no more 15mgs Superdrol or 20mgs PP at your weight. 1-AD is normally run for 5 weeks and 4-AD is normally started at same time or after 1-AD.

Saying this, the correct way to run a M1T cycle is with a two week chaser of something like 1-AD. Running test support with some thing like 4-AD for the 4 weeks. M1T is very effective but is very very harsh on your body.

 

[mixedup]

I think the 4ad is low for the first 2 weeks the orals didn't not have a very high conversion rate

 

[INWORK]

M1T wouldn't be a good choice because it is super supressive of your Natty Test. Natty TEST and estrogen go to 0 in 3 days and stays down for 11 days after you stop taking M1T. 30 mgs of superdrol or PP is too much. I recommend no more 15mgs Superdrol or 20mgs PP at your weight. 1-AD is normally run for 5 weeks and 4-AD is normally started at same time or after 1-AD.

Saying this, the correct way to run a M1T cycle is with a two week chaser of something like 1-AD. Running test support with some thing like 4-AD for the 4 weeks. M1T is very effective but is very very harsh on your body.

How do you recommend the PP @ 20mgs. be incorporated? Week 1-3, 1-4, 2-5, etc.?

Also I am sure I have read it to be a good idea to start the 4AD a little early to combat the lethargy from the 1AD. But if most agree to start these compounds at the same time then I am on board with that.

I can run the 1AD for five weeks as you suggest if I lower the doses. And I can up the 4AD as mentioned by mixedup. But where does the PP go? Or for a "drier" compound as mentioned by same_old, where would either the SDROL or MTRN go?

WK1....300mg..1AD/....WK1..600mg...4AD
WK2....300mg..1AD/....WK2..600mg...4AD
WK3....500mg..1AD/....WK3..900mg...4AD
WK4....500mg..1AD/....WK4..900mg...4AD
WK5....600mg..1AD/....WK5..1200mg..4AD

Thanks to all who have offered their opinions. I know we all will not agree on everything and ultimately it will be my decision. I do appreciate you guys taking the time and helping me figure this out. Please keep the suggestions coming. I am a big fan of brain storming...

 

[Werewolf]

How do you recommend the PP @ 20mgs. be incorporated? Week 1-3, 1-4, 2-5, etc.?

Also I am sure I have read it to be a good idea to start the 4AD a little early to combat the lethargy from the 1AD. But if most agree to start these compounds at the same time then I am on board with that.

I can run the 1AD for five weeks as you suggest if I lower the doses. And I can up the 4AD as mentioned by mixedup. But where does the PP go? Or for a "drier" compound as mentioned by same_old, where would either the SDROL or MTRN go?

WK1....300mg..1AD/....WK1..600mg...4AD
WK2....300mg..1AD/....WK2..600mg...4AD
WK3....500mg..1AD/....WK3..900mg...4AD
WK4....500mg..1AD/....WK4..900mg...4AD
WK5....600mg..1AD/....WK5..1200mg..4AD

Thanks to all who have offered their opinions. I know we all will not agree on everything and ultimately it will be my decision. I do appreciate you guys taking the time and helping me figure this out. Please keep the suggestions coming. I am a big fan of brain storming...

I think start the PP two weeks before week 1 and also run for weeks 1 and 2. For a total of 4 weeks.

 

[Werewolf]

Since you have Superdrol you could go slightly with more productive mix of 15 mgs phera-plex and 3.33 mgs of superdrol for the first 3 weeks and 1 week of 20 mgs phera-plex. Requires recapping or pouring into protien shakes. best to split into two doses (7.5 and 1.67). You could taper PP down in 5th week to 10 mg, but you are pushing your liver.

Here is Fritzer's log:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/45008-pheraplex-log.html

 

[INWORK]

Since you have Superdrol you could go slightly with more productive mix of 15 mgs phera-plex and 3.33 mgs of superdrol for the first 3 weeks and 1 week of 20 mgs phera-plex. Requires recapping or pouring into protien shakes. best to split into two doses (7.5 and 1.67). You could taper PP down in 5th week to 10 mg, but you are pushing your liver.

Here is Fritzer's log:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/45008-pheraplex-log.html

There's a concept I have never considered.... It would take some time and some work to get right...hhhmmmm. I need some time to let my brain chew on this...but something like this is what you are suggesting?

WK1....10mg....PP/5mg..SDROL
WK2....10mg....PP/5mg..SDROL
WK3....300mg..1AD/600mg...4AD/10mg....PP/5mg..SDROL
WK4....300mg..1AD/600mg...4AD/10mg....PP
WK5....500mg..1AD/900mg...4AD
WK6....500mg..1AD/900mg...4AD
WK7....600mg..1AD/1200mg..4AD

I know I put the PP lower than you suggested and the SDROL higher, but I am trying to keep it real(for me). I mean I can see me splitting the capsules in half, but not into 3rds and 4ths. Just being honest here.

Looks like a strong, well planned stack. I would definately run my supporting supps higher than usual with this stack. And PCT would be longer as well, but I'm not sure how long I would run it. Would something like this work?

WK1..Nolva..40mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps
WK2..Nolva..30mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK3..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK4..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK5..Nolva..10mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..25mg
And start back on CEE last week of cycle...

I'm going to need to stock up on some Retain / Fenotest. I've already got enough of everything else mentioned above (I'm a big fan of Fenotest).

Off to the gym (usual off day) to do some cardio and abs! This is the best way to start the day!

Thanks again for all the effort guys...

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Keep the 4-ad dose constant the entire time. 900mg was GREAT for me, back in the day.

 

[INWORK]

Keep the 4-ad dose constant the entire time. 900mg was GREAT for me, back in the day.

Thanks for dropping by!! Everything else you agree with? I can keep the 4AD @ 900mgs. (have plenty) but I am limited on the 1AD.

From the feedback I am getting on this stack, I think I will run my first ever log. Don't get too excited though folks, I am still three months out. I am assuming someone would want to read a log....

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Thanks for dropping by!! Everything else you agree with? I can keep the 4AD @ 900mgs. (have plenty) but I am limited on the 1AD.

From the feedback I am getting on this stack, I think I will run my first ever log. Don't get too excited though folks, I am still three months out. I am assuming someone would want to read a log....

run the log and link me when you do. 1-ad,4-ad were my first 2 stacks. I went from squating 225x12 to 405x15 - then I proceeded to distroy my knee. moral of the story, be careful and 1-ad is awesome..

400mg or 600mg ED will do the trick
spread the dose out.

edit:
as a kind of ratio.. keep the 4ad 1.5x-2x above the 1-ad... or you'll get sleepy quickly :hammer:

 

[Werewolf]

There's a concept I have never considered.... It would take some time and some work to get right...hhhmmmm. I need some time to let my brain chew on this...but something like this is what you are suggesting?

WK1....10mg....PP/5mg..SDROL
WK2....10mg....PP/5mg..SDROL
WK3....300mg..1AD/600mg...4AD/10mg....PP/5mg..SDROL
WK4....300mg..1AD/600mg...4AD/10mg....PP
WK5....500mg..1AD/900mg...4AD
WK6....500mg..1AD/900mg...4AD
WK7....600mg..1AD/1200mg..4AD

I know I put the PP lower than you suggested and the SDROL higher, but I am trying to keep it real(for me). I mean I can see me splitting the capsules in half, but not into 3rds and 4ths. Just being honest here.

...

If you get gel caps that are bigger than what your P-P and Superdrol are in and you don't worry about it being precise, it is actually not that hard to make 1/6 doses. So what if one is a little smaller than another, it evens out over time. Most health food stores have gel caps.

Both P-P and Superdrol both work better when taken in two doses spread about 12hrs apart. Good luck

 

[INWORK]

If you get gel caps that are bigger than what your P-P and Superdrol are in and you don't worry about it being precise, it is actually not that hard to make 1/6 doses. So what if one is a little smaller than another, it evens out over time. Most health food stores have gel caps.

Both P-P and Superdrol both work better when taken in two doses spread about 12hrs apart. Good luck

AH! I'm on board now. So I could just spend one day splitting these up and then pop them when I'm ready. I was making this seem much harder then it really is! I will take your suggestion and do just that.

I'll send out the final stack tomorrow. Anyone have any issues with the post cycle therapy?

WK1..Nolva..40mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps
WK2..Nolva..30mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK3..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK4..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK5..Nolva..10mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..25mg
And start back on CEE last week of cycle...

Thanks again guys!!!

 

[Werewolf]

200mg DHEA in week 1 tapering out 50 mgs a week.

You probably want to add Cissus to cycle and/or PCTfor joint/ tendon support. You could look at adding ActivaTe at week two of post cycle therapy for up to 7 weeks in length, but you need to continue the RXT for at least a week longer than ActivaTe. Which means you are go into the NHA stack during post cycle therapy. Powerful and Anagen have their fans for PCT.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/45582-whats-your-favorite-natural-anabolic.html

You could look at Oratrophin or other IGF-1R3 supplement. You could also look at HGH boosters like PGH-T for PCT. Sorry, but you are now on the down hill slide for your natural HGH and IGF-1 levels.

 

[Ninjo]

anyone have any idea how long it typically takes for 1-AD to "kick in"??...(say at 400mg/ed for someone weighing approx. 180lbs.)

 

[CEDeoudes59]

anyone have any idea how long it typically takes for 1-AD to "kick in"??...(say at 400mg/ed for someone weighing approx. 180lbs.)

9 days

 

[Ninjo]

funny you should say that....I'm on day 10 and today I finally started to see some significant strength gains....:woohoo:

 

[INWORK]

200mg DHEA in week 1 tapering out 50 mgs a week.

You probably want to add Cissus to cycle and/or PCTfor joint/ tendon support. You could look at adding ActivaTe at week two of post cycle therapy for up to 7 weeks in length, but you need to continue the RXT for at least a week longer than ActivaTe. Which means you are go into the NHA stack during post cycle therapy. Powerful and Anagen have their fans for post cycle therapy.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/45582-whats-your-favorite-natural-anabolic.html

You could look at Oratrophin or other IGF-1R3 supplement. You could also look at HGH boosters like PGH-T for PCT. Sorry, but you are now on the down hill slide for your natural HGH and IGF-1 levels.

From my reading, Oratrophin seems to get great reviews when used in PCT. Starting two weeks before the end of cycle and continued for the first two weeks of PCT. Because of the cost, I would only be able to add this one item to my PCT...or several others and not the Oratrophin.

I think I would like to try the Oratrophin. In your opinion, would you go with the Oratrophin and the PCT I listed or would you leave it off and add a couple of the other options?

WK1..Nolva..40mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps
WK2..Nolva..30mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK3..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK4..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK5..Nolva..10mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..25mg
Start back on CEE last week of cycle.
Also Oratrophin last two weeks of cycle and WK1 & WK2 of PCT.

I would like to keep the RXT to a minimum. I don't like the mood swings I experience while on it (especially anything over 50mgs.). So this might knock out the ActivaTe if it means running the RXT for seven weeks. I'm not sure why, but when running the RXT I am a freakin' mental case:aargh:

Thanks for the time you've invested in my quest. It is much appreciated...

 

[Werewolf]

From my reading, Oratrophin seems to get great reviews when used in post cycle therapy. Starting two weeks before the end of cycle and continued for the first two weeks of post cycle therapy. Because of the cost, I would only be able to add this one item to my PCT...or several others and not the Oratrophin.

I think I would like to try the Oratrophin. In your opinion, would you go with the Oratrophin and the PCT I listed or would you leave it off and add a couple of the other options?

WK1..Nolva..40mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps
WK2..Nolva..30mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK3..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..150mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK4..Nolva..20mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..50mg
WK5..Nolva..10mcg/Retain..100mg/Fenotest..4caps/RXT..25mg
Start back on CEE last week of cycle.
Also Oratrophin last two weeks of cycle and WK1 & WK2 of PCT.

I would like to keep the RXT to a minimum. I don't like the mood swings I experience while on it (especially anything over 50mgs.). So this might knock out the ActivaTe if it means running the RXT for seven weeks. I'm not sure why, but when running the RXT I am a freakin' mental case:aargh:

Thanks for the time you've invested in my quest. It is much appreciated...

They have changed Oratrophin lately to double dose and taking it every other day. This means one kit lasts 30 days.
I know it still expensive, but I have healed my bad knees up with it. When you add a lot of muscle, the tendons are always behind and abused. Cissus and IGF-1R3 are only two things that really speed tendon healing. IGF-1R3 is about 300% and Cissus is 45%.

ActivaTe can be run with Rebound Reloaded or 6-oxo instead of ATD if you have problems with ATD. I'm surprised to hear your reaction to RXT, but everyone is different. I don't do doses of RXT above 50 mgs though. I have added 1 or 2 6-oxo to 50 mgs of RXT and that works well.

Because I value my joint health so much at this point in my life, Oratrophin is my first choice, but I do both.

 

[INWORK]

I'll quitely fade off while I continue to research and get my supplies together for my next cycle. I'll post up the entire cycle, including post cycle a couple of weeks before running it. It is going to be hard trying to wait 'til mid-Oct. / Nov.!!!!!

Until then, I will continue trying to lower my BF% and see where it takes me.

Thanks again for all the input...

 

[Grassroots082]

I can "feel" the effects of dermal 4AD less than 1hr after application. I love that ****