Starting 1st cycle....feedback

buttasmoothceo

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Getting ready to start my very first cycyle:

Looking at

cyponate 1cc/wk

winny 3cc/wk

8 week cycle.....

Is this a good 1st cycle for a newbie...looking to cut weight

A feedback/suggestions would be greatly appreciate...and any supplementation as well...

Thanks much,
 

idunk42

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Run test for 12 weeks and nothing else. Thats a great first cycle.
 

buttasmoothceo

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thanks....any recommendations regarding test. Or suggested plan for my first 8-12 weeks...thanks much
 

idunk42

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Well Im assuming that your test is 200mg/ml or 250mg/ml.

Either way, I would go with 500mg/per week split up into 2 doses (monday and thursday).
 
jomi822

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Run test for 12 weeks and nothing else. Thats a great first cycle.
i agree, 10-12 weeks is the best way to go.

what kind of support supps are you taking? estrogen control? (if you are not prone the winny should take care of it)

what does pct look like and how much cardio do you plan on doing?
 

buttasmoothceo

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Nothing for estrogen......as of yet....not sure about the post cycle....thought i would figure that out as I get started....I do cardio 5 times week 45 mins a day..............
 

idunk42

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Nothing for estrogen......as of yet....not sure about the post cycle....thought i would figure that out as I get started....I do cardio 5 times week 45 mins a day..............
Dont start your cycle until you have everything planned out and know what to do in case any number of problems or incidences that may arise. Know what to do before it happens, dont wait until it does happen. And have everything you need beforehand for any and every situation.
 
motiv8er

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Welcome BSC,

Long acting esters take a while to build up in your system. Around week 5 you will be at 100% of day 1 shot. Do you want to grow from 3 weeks? Are you HRT? The dosage you you listed (cc?) isn't helpful, what is the mg per cc? You have a lot to learn before you do it right. Be careful. And welcome.
 

mercedesdd

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Getting ready to start my very first cycyle:

Looking at

cyponate 1cc/wk

winny 3cc/wk

8 week cycle.....

Is this a good 1st cycle for a newbie...looking to cut weight

A feedback/suggestions would be greatly appreciate...and any supplementation as well...

Thanks much,
Not a flame but that is not a good cycle. The test dose you listed is an HRT dose more or less.. I would go with 400-500 mg EW ( split into two injections per week) You winny dose is worthless. Winny should be used ED at 50 mg IMO( it has a active life of only 8 hours). some say EOD on winny but in my experince winny works better hands down ED.. You need to really take the time to research as your cycle is not very well planed out !!! Oh also cyp takes around 5 weeks or longer to kick in so you need to go at least 10 weeks .. 8 weeks is worthless!!
 

buttasmoothceo

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Thanks for the feedback....what would you recommend for a 1st time cycle to cut......this is what a friend recommened to me who has cycled b4...and fights MMA....

but i get conflicting info from each person.....
 

mercedesdd

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Thanks for the feedback....what would you recommend for a 1st time cycle to cut......this is what a friend recommened to me who has cycled b4...and fights MMA....

but i get conflicting info from each person.....
Ah I do a little fighting myself !! Well diet is what will mostly decide if your bulking or cutting. There is no magic pill for cutting. Diet and cardio are key!!! That said a good cycle would be

Test E or cyp
wk 1-10 ( 500 mg per week , one shot mon and another on thurs)

follwed by proper PCT

could go 12 weeks if you like and also could use an AI like adex or maybe a SERM like nolva.. I would at least have these on hand in case of bloat or gyno symtoms..
 
motiv8er

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TThis is another one of the popular ones. Next to Deca and D-bol the third most abused substance among athletes is stanozolol, as documented by the many positive drug tests.

In Depth Winstrol Profile!

By: Big Cat

Winstrol / Stromba

NOTICE: This information is for entertainment purposes ONLY!

Full profiles on each individual steroid are here.

Pharmaceutical Name: Stanozolol
Chemical structure: 17 alpha-methyl-5alpha- androstano [3,2-c]pyrazol-17 beta-ol
Molecular weight of base: 344.5392


Effective dose: 50-100 mg/day injection or 50-100 mg/day orally
Average Street-price: $0.30 - 1.00 per tab or $7-10 per 50mg injection
Available Doses: 2, 5 and 10 mg tabs or 50-100 mg/ml

Brands & Products:

Winthrop Winstrol Depot 50 mg/ml
Winstrol (o.c.) 50 mg/ml
Strombaject (o.c.) 50 mg/ml
Stromba 50 mg/ml
Stromba (o.c.) 50 mg/ml
Stromba (o.c.) 5 mg tabs
Stromba (B) 5 mg tabs
Winstrol 2 mg tabs
Winthrop Veterinary Winstrol V (US) 50 mg/ml
Upjohn Winstrol V (US) 50 mg/ml
Sterling Health Stromba (HU, CZ) 5 mg tabs
Ttokkyo Labs Stanol V 100 mg/ml
Stanol V 10 mg tabs
Zambon Winstrol (ES) 2 mg tabs

Characteristics:

TThis is another one of the popular ones. Next to Deca and D-bol the third most abused substance among athletes is stanozolol, as documented by the many positive drug tests. Among them the case sprinter Ben Johnson, who was stripped of his Gold Medal in the 100 meter dash in the 1988 Olympics. But since then the number of positives has grown exponentially. In bodybuilding Shawn Ray's positive in the 1990 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic (a brief stint the IFBB had with drug testing). Ray was the winner of that event, but Canadion pro Nimrod King was also shown to have stanazolol metabolites in his urine.

That short paragraph to illustrate what sort of an impact it has made on the world of sports. Stanozolol is commonly referred to as Winny, after its trade name as marketed by Winthrop : Winstrol. In Europe this may be a bit confusing as the most available form there is called Stromba. Winny comes in two forms, an injectable form and an oral form. Both are equally popular and both are to be used daily. The injections are the same compound as the orals, which is methylated. Due to this feat it can't be esterified for time-release. So its not quite suited for weekly injections although this is claimed on the package insert of the veterinary form of Winny. Another thing that would further add to the difficulty of time-release is that it is delivered in an aqueous solution. That would not exactly facilitate the entry into adipose tissue, needed for the esterification and storage of the substrate in the body.

The injectable version often gives more results. In similar doses there is still more breakdown upon first pass in the liver, making it difficult to get an equal amount absorbed. And on top of that it has to be mentioned that most people simply don't take an equal amount. Too many pills, lesser availability, higher cost. Many factors play a role in that. But of course an oral is to be preferred over daily injections as that gives the necessary complications as well. Think of abscesses and lumps, the searching for new injection sites due to pain and so on. Some have solved this problem by simply drinking the Winny injections. It's the same substance, also methylated to withstand the liver, the availability and price are better and its contained in water. So there really aren't many objections to this.

Of course because they are the same substance, regardless of the method of use, its not advised to use Winny for long periods of time. Slightly less hepatoxic than most 17-alpha alkylated substrates, so it can be used a bit longer, as long as 8 weeks, but longer than that is not wise. Elevation of liver values is quite common.

The specificity of Winny however, lies in how it counteracts estrogenic side-effects such as gyno and excess water retention. First of all it's a 5-alpha reduced substrate. 5-alpha reduction breaks the double bond between positions 4 and 5, which is required for conversion to estrogen via aromatase, the primary enzyme for the manufacture of estrogen in males. Because some of these compounds nonetheless show some affinity for aromatase they may have some use in blocking estrogen from other steroids they are stacked with. Wether or not Winny acts in this way is not entirely sure. What has been a popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid of Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects. Now, progesterone can aggravate estrogenic side-effects by agonizing estrogen and it does play a role in gyno.

We also discussed that certain steroids may indeed stimulate and act at the height of the progesterone receptor including nandrolone and Norethandrolone. These hormones are also altered by it inducing a decrease in libido and a sense of lethargy and such, and eventhough they aromatize in lesser rates than some other steroids, they show an equal capability to cause estrogenic side-effects, particularly when stacked with other aromatizable compounds. Now there is evidence that Winny does indeed bind to the progesterone receptor1 and its users do not indicate the normal characteristics of progesterone stimulation, which bodes well for these anti-progestagenic properties. There is also some clinical data that it does aid in symptoms that require progesterone suppression2. Much in the way danazol was also successfully used. The one thing we shouldn't lose sight of however is in what rate it binds to the progesterone reception. There is no data on this. For all we know it couldn't bind strong enough to compete with nandrolone or norethandrolone. So its not wise to state that Winny is an anti-progestagin per se, but it does make Winny a good match for these products in stacks in any case.

Strong gains are never really made while using stanozolol (it's a weak androgen since it has no 3-keto group needed for androgen binding), but decent and fairly easy to maintain gains are possible. Its limited time of use however makes most experienced users opt for other steroids in that regard. Winny, in bodybuilding circles at least, is used mostly during cutting cycles to maintain mass. Winstrol, like a DHT compound also gives a distinct increase in muscle hardness and striations in people with a low body-fat percentage. This lends further credence that it too may be a an anti-estrogen. But most likely it has more to do with the overall lower levels of circulating estrogen. Winny is also quite effective at promoting strength because it binds very well at the androgen receptor. Short term stanozolol use can promote drastic strength, a feat often employed early in a bulking cycle (although d-bol would be more suited in that case) or late in a cutting cycle to prevent a decrease in performance. This combined with the red blood cell count-stimulating properties of its androgen affinity make it popular among track athletes as well in order to beget better results. As many, including Ben Johnson, did not take into account it can be detected for quite some time after last use so its not advisable for drug tested athletes. Many have assumed otherwise due to the short half-life, but apparently some inactive metabolites are easily esterified, so they can be found up to 5 months after the last injection.

Winny is mostly quite well-tolerated in men. Cramps, headaches, elevated blood pressure and cholesterol levels and liver damage are noted, but on a not so-frequent basis. Standard virilization symptoms associated with the stimulating of the androgen receptor, however, are a problem. Acne, prostate hypertrophy and an aggravation of male pattern baldness can occur, so use by women has to be discouraged.

Due to the frequent rate of injections, users generally have to go spotting for different sites of injection on the body. Calves, shoulders, arms and such. When doing so they noted a localized increase in mass which has given root to the myth that Winny can add muscle where it is injected. What I'm about to say goes for all compounds known to date : Steroids do not increase mass locally. The observance is noted because the injection breaks the fascia around the muscle, which possibly gives a muscle a little more room to grow. This is mostly temporary, and in the best cases very limited. Multiple injections would not increase the size in comparison. When the fascia heals, if it heals, it can lead to something called compartments syndrome, where a nerve is pinched between a muscle and its fascia. Leading to numbness quite often and in some cases to a paralysis of everything that nerve controls. This is not a frequent occurrence. This is rare, but my point was documenting that localized growth spurred by an injection is a myth.

A last note about injectable Winny is : shake before use. Its called an aqueous solution, but the Winny being a steroid is not particularly polar, meaning it doesn't dissolve in the water. When the stuff sits, it will accumulate at the bottom of the vial. A good way to recognize the real stuff as well. So shake before you draw it into a syringe or mix it before you drink it, and perhaps even stir it again once in the syringe prior to injection.

Stacking and Use:

Winstrol is best used at a rate of 50 mg a day. When in an injection that amounts to a single injection every day around the same time. In orals, that'll be at least 5 tabs of a legit product.

In a mass stack Winny makes a good match for Deca and Nilevar. Whether or not its anti-progestagenic effects are for real or not, lets just say it can't hurt. In any stack with Deca the use of 25-50 mg a day for the first 6-8 weeks of the stack can kickstart it and add some strength. With Nilevar there is a practical objection because it is also 17-alpha alkylated and more toxic than Winny, so your stack would be limited to 6 weeks, which is not overly productive.


The pink ones are Anabol (Dianabol) and the yellow ones are Stanabol (Winstrol). These are very popular right now. They are 5 mg tabs and they sell for less than 30 cents a tab.

For cutting purposes Boldenone, Masteron and trenbolone are the best options. If you are employing a longer stack, then use 25-50 mg of Winny for 6 weeks or so at the end of the stack. Boldenone is the best match here as the other two do basically the same thing. They act solely or mostly at the androgen receptor. Making them poorer choices since simply upping the dose of Winny would mostly achieve similar results. Of course neither is methylated, which allows for longer use.

There is no need for an anti-estrogen as Winny may have such a property of its own and does not aromatize at any rate. The only counter-indication with Winny would perhaps be an anti-hypertensive if you use for a longer stack. Be sure to get liver values checked if you use for longer than 6 weeks on end. There is no real use for Clomid or Nolva post-cycle for Winny specifically since there is no post-cycle aromatisation to cause negative feedback. That makes whatever gains you made on Winny quite easy to maintain.


Testosterone is the prime male androgen in the body, and as such still the best possible mass builder in the world. It has a high risk of side-effects because it readily converts to a more androgenic form (DHT).

In Depth Testosterone Cypionate Profile!

By: Big Cat

Testosterone Cypionate

NOTICE: This information is for entertainment purposes ONLY!

Full profiles on each individual steroid are here.

Pharmaceutical Name: Testosterone (as Cypionate)
Chemical structure: 4-androstene-3-one,17beta-ol
Molecular weight of base: 288.429
Molecular weight of ester: 132.1184 (cypionic acid, 8 carbons)


Effective dose: 250-1000 mg/week
Average Street-price: $10-20 per ml (200/250 mg/ml vials)
Available Doses: 50, 75, 100, 125, 200 or 250 mg/ml

Brands & Products:

Coopers Banrot (Australia) 75 mg/ml
Dispert Labs Testosterona Ultra (Uruguay) 200 mg/ml
Hanil Pharm Miro Depo (Korea) 125 mg/ml
Jurox Testo LA (Australia) 100 mg/ml
Leo Testex Leo Prolongatum (ES) 50 or 125 mg/ml
Loeffler Cypiotest L/A (MX) 250 mg/ml
Novaquimaca Deposteron (Brazil) 100 mg/ml
Ttokkyo Testosterone Cypionate 200 LA (MX) 100 or 200 mg/ml
Upjohn Depo-testosterone (US) 50, 100 or 200 mg/ml

Characteristics:

Testosterone is the prime male androgen in the body, and as such still the best possible mass builder in the world. It has a high risk of side-effects because it readily converts to a more androgenic form (DHT) in androgen responsive tissues and forms estrogen quite easily. But these characteristics also provide it with its extreme anabolic tendencies. On the one hand estrogen increases growth hormone output, glucose utilization, improves immunity and upgrades the androgen receptor, while on the other hand a testosterone/DHT combination is extremely potent at activating the androgen receptor and eliciting major strength and size gains. While not always the most visually appealing result, there is no steroid on earth that packs on mass like testosterone does.

Testosterone Cypionate is a single-ester, long-acting form of testosterone. Due to the length of its ester (8 carbons) it is stored mostly in the adipose tissue upon intra-musuclar injection, and then slowly but very steadily released over a certain period of time. A peak is noted after 24-48 hours of injection and then a slow decline, reaching a steady point after 12 days and staying there for over 3 weeks time. Of course most users of anabolics will not find adequate benefit in the use of this steady-point dose, so this product is normally injected once a week, making the very lowest dose higher than half the peak dose at any given time. This is roughly the starting blood level as well. A long-acting testosterone ester is a must-have in any mass-building cycle. As such this is a very decent product.

Personally I have more affinity for testosterone enanthate, but few users will note any real difference between the two products, and both remain a better buy than their popular counterpart sustanon 250, which is a poor choice of testosterone in my opinion. It makes sense that a user simply opts for which one is most readily available at the time. They sell for roughly the same price, and are almost equally good. So most North and South-American users will usually opt for the use of a cypionate, as it is more available in those regions, whereas Europeans and Asians will probably prefer the enanthate version.

A long-acting testosterone ester may be the best for all your mass-building needs, but its not an easy product to use. Because of the extreme length of action (3-4 weeks) one cannot easily solve occurring problems by simply discontinuing the product, as it will continue to act and aggravate side-effects over extended periods of time. In regards to damage control and post-cycle therapy, some familiarity with the use of ancillary drugs is required prior to using a long-acting testosterone product. Nolvadex and Proviron will come in very handy in such cases and post-cycle HCG and clomid or Nolvadex will be required as well to help restore natural testosterone. Frequency of side-effects is probably highest with this type of product.

While most will tell you it's a waste to not use testosterone, as it will take ages longer to build proper mass, these are all points to take into consideration. Testosterone is a product that is heavily used by beginners and veterans alike and justly so. Those who fear they may never understand the proper use of ancillary drugs, may want to suck it up and invest in some propionate or suspension testosterones instead. These are much shorter acting and easier to control, but they do need to be injected once every two days, whereas this type of ester will impart great gains with a single weekly injection. Something to keep in mind.

Stacking and Use:

Testosterone is the most powerful compound there is, so obviously its perfectly fine to use it by itself. With a long-acting ester like Cypionate doses of 500-1000 mg per week are used with very clear results over a 10 week period. If you've ever seen a man swell up with sheer size, then testosterone was the cause of it. But testosterone is nonetheless often stacked. Due to the high occurrence of side-effects, people will usually split up a stack in testosterone and a milder component in order to obtain a less risky cycle, but without having to give up as much of the gains. Primobolan, Equipoise and Deca-Durabolin are the weapons of choice in this matter. Deca seems to be the most popular, probably because of its extremely mild androgenic nature. But Deca being one of the highest risks for just about every other side-effects, I probably wouldn't advise it. If Deca is used, generally a dose of 200-400 mg is added to 500-750 mg of testosterone per week.

Primobolan is sometimes opted for, and can be handy since it doesn't aromatize, which will make the total level of water retention and fat gain a lot less than with more test or with Deca for example. Unfortunately, its mild nature combined with a lack of estrogen make Primobolan a very poor mass builder. Again, doses of 300-400 mg are used. I would actually suggest a higher dose, but with the current prices for Primo I don't think it would be very popular. My personal preference goes out to Equipoise. Androgenically its not that much stronger than Deca because it has next to no affinity for the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme and is only half as androgenic as testosterone. Its twice as strong as Deca, mg for mg, and has a lower occurrence of side-effects. It has some estrogen, but not a whole lot so it actually tends to lean a person out rather than bloat him up as Deca will. It also increases appetite, which promotes gains, and improves aerobic performance, which may be wishful as testosterone normally has an opposite effect.

Of course testosterone cypionate can be stacked with any number of compounds apart from these, but these make the best match. When stacking with testosterone, one needs to look at what the other compound can bring. Either it has a characteristic that testosterone doesn't have, or its nominally safer. The testosterone will bring all the mass, so adding another steroid to enhance mass alone, is futile. More testosterone is the best remedy for that.

One needs to be familiar with a host of other compounds when using long-acting testosterone esters however. First of all, anti-estrogens. The rate of aromatization of testosterone is quite great, so water retention and fat gain are a fact and gyno is never far off. If problems occur one is best to start on 20 mg of Nolvadex per day and stay on that until problems subside. I wouldn't stay on it for a whole cycle, as it may reduce the gains. In terms of an aromatase blocker, testosterone is one of the few compounds where Proviron may actually be preferred over arimidex. The proviron will not only reduce estrogen and can be used for extended time on a testosterone cycle, it will also bind with great affinity to sex-hormone binding proteins in the blood and will allow for a higher level of free testosterone in the body, thus improving gains.

Usually 50-100 mg will suffice, the lower end is preferred for maximal results since estrogen plays a key role in gains, but those more worried about estrogen should opt for a higher dose. For those worried about androgenic side-effects (hair loss, prostate hypertrophy, deepening of voice), one can utilize the hair loss treatment finasteride. This blocks the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme and stops the conversion of testosterone to the more androgenic compound DHT. I'm not a big fan of this, because DHT reduces estrogenic bloat, increases free levels of testosterone and is a very potent androgen that is 3-4 times stronger than testosterone. Those worried about hair loss however, may want to opt for arimidex as their anti-aromatase, since Proviron is a form of DHT after all.

After a cycle, mainly due to the high aromatization and increased levels of estradiol in the blood after discontinuing, natural testosterone levels will be severely suppressed. This means steps need to be taken to assure the quick return of natural testosterone, or we stand to lose a lot of the gains we made while using testosterone. Since it's a non-toxic, potent mass-builder its mostly used in long 10-12 week cycles. So some testicular shrinkage will have occurred too. Its very important that people see that HCG and Nolvadex/clomid are essential as a post-cycle therapy, and that both are equally important in achieving our goal. HCG injections should be started the last week of the cycle and continued for 3-4 weeks, using 1500-3000 IU every 5-6 days. HCG will act as an alternative to LH and start the endogenous testosterone cycle, thereby increasing testicle size once again. Then about 2 weeks after the last shot of testosterone is given, Nolvadex/Clomid cycle should be started. 40 mg of Nolva or 150 mg of Clomid per day for two weeks, followed by two more weeks with either 20 mg of Nolva or 100 mg of Clomid per day should be adequate. Always remember that HCG is suppressive of natural testosterone itself and should be discontinued at least 2 weeks prior to finishing Nolvadex/Clomid.

Your "friend" is either ignorant (does't mean he isn't gifted MMA) or using you. CEO If you are silly with your money, and don't know what you are doing, he might also be doing you a favor.
 

buttasmoothceo

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thank you, i appreciate it....this is much more complex than I ever imagined.....i feel like im back in chemistry class.....appreciate it.....I found a great website that has much simpler info for first cycle users.....this seems to be better for the expereience user....
 

buttasmoothceo

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thank you mercedesd, that was helpful and nice of you....
 

mercedesdd

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thank you, i appreciate it....this is much more complex than I ever imagined.....i feel like im back in chemistry class.....appreciate it.....I found a great website that has much simpler info for first cycle users.....this seems to be better for the expereience user....
It can get tricky but you will learn LOL!! Not really for the experienced user only . Sorry if it came off that way but trust me not the case . There are lots of people here that know there stuff but this is a great site for everyone to learn.. Would love to have you stay around here and you will soon be one of the expereniced users you spoke about LOL....
 

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