Syno vs. 4-AD

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    Syno vs. 4-AD


    Would it be worth converrting Syno with out the estro for a transdermal? When 4-AD can be found?

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    Converting Syno without the estrogen IMO would be better than using 4AD, since Syno has testosterone proprionate... Might even have to remove the ester to make it a base.. Someone who knows for sure should chime in..
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    Research my friend. Yes it is worth it, and yes it is easily done. Yes you remove the estrogen, AND the propinate ester.

    Which will be more effective..4AD..which requires enzymes t convert into test..or plain old test..you tell me.

    Peace
    •   
       

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    Originally posted by wardog
    Research my friend. Yes it is worth it, and yes it is easily done. Yes you remove the estrogen, AND the propinate ester.

    Which will be more effective..4AD..which requires enzymes t convert into test..or plain old test..you tell me.

    Peace
    I thought 4-Ad was 90% as effective as test but I question that number. The only reason I ask this is 4-AD itself is suppose to be anabolic which I'm not sure is true.
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    I have used test base (not syno) transdermally and it itched like crazy. I don't know if I got impure powder or what but I havn't used it since, I just stick to 4ad.
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    Originally posted by wardog
    Research my friend. Yes it is worth it,

    I've searched several boards and I see how to convert Syno but have found no user feed back on how Syno Transdermals worked just how well Syno injections worked.
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    My guess is that without the estradiol, the syno conversions should prove as painful as normal test prop.. Noone has yet to remove the proprionate ester (that we know of), so transdermal Syno should be a project you should consider..

    There's a way to remove tren's ester, why not prop's?
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    Originally posted by BigBenn
    I have used test base (not syno) transdermally and it itched like crazy. I don't know if I got impure powder or what but I havn't used it since, I just stick to 4ad.
    did you use DMSO? That might have made you itch.
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    i use injectable 4-ad cyp at 350mg/ml and i get no pain whatsoever, the stuff is WAY more potent than transdermal 4-ad for sure
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    Originally posted by Bean
    i use injectable 4-ad cyp at 350mg/ml and i get no pain whatsoever, the stuff is WAY more potent than transdermal 4-ad for sure

    I've read on other boards 4-Ad cyp isn't working, guess you had a better experience.

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t&pagenumber=1
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    Umm, newsflash, I have removed the propinate from test prop, as well as used it transdermally. It works quite well. Transdermal synovex is extremely simple to make with a little knowledge. I have posted this before, it is complements of BDC, and works VERY well. Since some seem alergic to the search button, here it is again:

    (1)Dissolve the pellets in methanol (heet)...maybe 2 bottles for 10 carts.
    (2) Add 2 or 3 tablespoons of saturated sodium hydroxide solution, stir and let sit for a day or two. This cleaves the esters and makes estradiol SOLUBLE in water.
    (3) Add about a liter or so of water...the test base will precipitate.
    (4) Filter and wash with water several times. This removes more estradiol and excess hydroxide. Check the pH if possible and verify it is neutral. Or, just wash the heck out of it.
    (5) Let dry and enjoy 18-20 g test base!
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    Originally posted by bigpetefox
    My guess is that without the estradiol, the syno conversions should prove as painful as normal test prop.. Noone has yet to remove the proprionate ester (that we know of), so transdermal Syno should be a project you should consider..

    There's a way to remove tren's ester, why not prop's?

    i think theres a way to get it toseparate into 3 things, crystals on top, liquid in the middle, gunk on the bottom. Im not interested in doing this, so i havent researched further.
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    If you use NOaH you will remove the prop ester from the synovex. YOu can do this after removing the estro with Dazed's kit.

    I just don't get why you guys look so hard to find ways not to inject. Syno conversion into prop oil is simple, effective and less painfull than regular prop when done right. Best prop I have ever used. I really don't like transdermals. Every last one I have ever used either itched or burned, and was a pain to deal with. I guess we are all different.
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    Originally posted by wardog
    Umm, newsflash, I have removed the propinate from test prop, as well as used it transdermally. It works quite well. Transdermal synovex is extremely simple to make with a little knowledge. I have posted this before, it is complements of BDC, and works VERY well. Since some seem alergic to the search button, here it is again:

    (1)Dissolve the pellets in methanol (heet)...maybe 2 bottles for 10 carts.
    (2) Add 2 or 3 tablespoons of saturated sodium hydroxide solution, stir and let sit for a day or two. This cleaves the esters and makes estradiol SOLUBLE in water.
    (3) Add about a liter or so of water...the test base will precipitate.
    (4) Filter and wash with water several times. This removes more estradiol and excess hydroxide. Check the pH if possible and verify it is neutral. Or, just wash the heck out of it.
    (5) Let dry and enjoy 18-20 g test base!
    I have reopened this thread because I am currently using Wardog's method and I have a couple of (dumb) questions/ comments.

    1) My first filter (using 5 carts) yielded 3.6 grams. I nearly shat my pants when I saw that since I was expecting about 6 grams. I used 2 coffee filters. I filtered the stuff into an empty milk jug in case the filters broke. When I saw my low yield, I refiltered the filtrate which yielded and additional 2.6 grams! (2.6 + 3.6 = 6.2 which is much better!).


    2) If you wait till the powder dries, the ph paper (obviously) does not respond to a dry powder. If you measure the ph while it's still wet, you are (for the most part) taking the ph of water which is neutral.
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    Originally posted by jediclampet


    I have reopened this thread because I am currently using Wardog's method and I have a couple of (dumb) questions/ comments.

    1) My first filter (using 5 carts) yielded 3.6 grams. I nearly shat my pants when I saw that since I was expecting about 6 grams. I used 2 coffee filters. I filtered the stuff into an empty milk jug in case the filters broke. When I saw my low yield, I refiltered the filtrate which yielded and additional 2.6 grams! (2.6 + 3.6 = 6.2 which is much better!).


    2) If you wait till the powder dries, the ph paper (obviously) does not respond to a dry powder. If you measure the ph while it's still wet, you are (for the most part) taking the ph of water which is neutral.
    why do you want the PH to br neutral?
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    Also, I would like to comment on the 4AD thing. This is my first cycle ever. I started with 4 AD and fina - both transdermals. I have worked all summer to get my BF low to prepare for this bulking cycle. I have been using clenbuterol and other fat loss aids. People commented about how good I looked and how much wieght I have lost.

    I knew that fina was very suppressive and I wanted to get the most out of my first cycle so I started using 200 mg per day of fina figuring that I'd get about 20% absorption.

    I have heard that you should use 3-4 times as much 4AD as fina so I was using 750 mg per day of 4AD. I also heard that you have to really eat a lot (which I love) to get the most out of your cycle, so I was eating religiously.

    The result:

    Day 2: wt 181 lbs / bf 15.2 %
    Day 5: wt 192 lbs / bf 15.2 %
    Day 8: wt 199 lbs / bf 15.2 %
    Day 13: wt 201 lbs / bf 16.8 %

    *NOTE: the bf% is measured by bioimpedance which I don't really trust but it gives some indication.

    I can tell that I am gaining muscle but the bloat from the 4AD (way too high a dose) is horrendous. Almost over night I went from looking lean (at least relatively) to looking like a fatass!

    On day 13 (yesterday), I stopped the 4AD and started TNE (from synovex). I plan to run the TNE at 400 mg per day. I have also started using nolva at 10 mg per day. I am hoping that these will recuce the bloat ( I think I can already feel the improvement). I am also gonna start using low dose (50 mcg / day) of T3 for the rest of the cycle (last 6 weeks of the 9 week cycle).

    I was debating on even throwing in some clen but I think I will just save it (with ketofin) for post cycle.
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    Originally posted by badbart


    why do you want the PH to br neutral?
    See step 4 of Wardog's method. I think that you know you have removed the estrodiol when the ph is neutral. That is why you can also just wash the snot out of it - but you risk loosing more product that way.
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    Originally posted by jediclampet
    Also, I would like to comment on the 4AD thing. This is my first cycle ever. I started with 4 AD and fina - both transdermals. I have worked all summer to get my BF low to prepare for this bulking cycle. I have been using clenbuterol and other fat loss aids. People commented about how good I looked and how much wieght I have lost.

    I knew that fina was very suppressive and I wanted to get the most out of my first cycle so I started using 200 mg per day of fina figuring that I'd get about 20% absorption.

    I have heard that you should use 3-4 times as much 4AD as fina so I was using 750 mg per day of 4AD. I also heard that you have to really eat a lot (which I love) to get the most out of your cycle, so I was eating religiously.

    The result:

    Day 2: wt 181 lbs / bf 15.2 %
    Day 5: wt 192 lbs / bf 15.2 %
    Day 8: wt 199 lbs / bf 15.2 %
    Day 13: wt 201 lbs / bf 16.8 %

    *NOTE: the bf% is measured by bioimpedance which I don't really trust but it gives some indication.

    I can tell that I am gaining muscle but the bloat from the 4AD (way too high a dose) is horrendous. Almost over night I went from looking lean (at least relatively) to looking like a fatass!

    On day 13 (yesterday), I stopped the 4AD and started TNE (from synovex). I plan to run the TNE at 400 mg per day. I have also started using nolva at 10 mg per day. I am hoping that these will recuce the bloat ( I think I can already feel the improvement). I am also gonna start using low dose (50 mcg / day) of T3 for the rest of the cycle (last 6 weeks of the 9 week cycle).

    I was debating on even throwing in some clen but I think I will just save it (with ketofin) for post cycle.
    use an anti-e to kill the bloat.
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    Originally posted by jediclampet


    See step 4 of Wardog's method. I think that you know you have removed the estrodiol when the ph is neutral. That is why you can also just wash the snot out of it - but you risk loosing more product that way.
    How do we know the saturated sodium hydroxide solution is gone? I sure wouldn't want to be injecting that stuff.
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    Yep, I am (as of yesterday) using 10 mg of nolva per day for the bloat and just in case of gyno (no signs yet though).

    I don't know how to tell when the NaOH is gone - maybe that's part of the reason to test the ph. Maybe someone in the know will chime in soon.

    I'd be afraid to inject this shtuff too (despite what many say). That's one of the reasons I am going with transdermal.

    They say transdermals are so ineffective but this transdermal is rocking me!
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    Originally posted by jediclampet
    Yep, I am (as of yesterday) using 10 mg of nolva per day for the bloat and just in case of gyno (no signs yet though).

    I don't know how to tell when the NaOH is gone - maybe that's part of the reason to test the ph. Maybe someone in the know will chime in soon.

    I'd be afraid to inject this shtuff too (despite what many say). That's one of the reasons I am going with transdermal.

    They say transdermals are so ineffective but this transdermal is rocking me!
    Your using 4-AD and Fina correct? I tried the above conversion and use it in Avants PH gel and it didn't work very well. 4-AD seemed to work better. I'll go with 4-AD before test if its trans.

    I was also afraid to inject and that’s why I choose the trans route. I would inject real factory made steroids but I don't trust what might be left after the conversion. I read about fina cough and scared lungs and I wouldn’t inject anything I made.

    Are you having any bad sides from the Fina?
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    I washed mine so many times it was getting absurd, lol. I saved all the wash in a bucket, then refilterd and washed that several times, that's how I got 15g (10 carts).

    And BTW read up in my syno thread about getting test crystals, just drip the water into the solution as opposed to ouring the whole thing in at once....another innovation brought to us by Wardog
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    Originally posted by badbart


    How do we know the saturated sodium hydroxide solution is gone? I sure wouldn't want to be injecting that stuff.
    That's what the ph test is for.

    Jweave, your syno thread was awesome. The drip method is by far the best method, filtering is a snap.
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    Thanks jweave! I have read that thread but that dripping thing sounded like a bit of a pain in the arse - but maybe it's not so bad in reality.

    Originally posted by badbart


    Your using 4-AD and Fina correct? I tried the above conversion and use it in Avants PH gel and it didn't work very well. 4-AD seemed to work better. I'll go with 4-AD before test if its trans.

    I was also afraid to inject and that’s why I choose the trans route. I would inject real factory made steroids but I don't trust what might be left after the conversion. I read about fina cough and scared lungs and I wouldn’t inject anything I made.

    Are you having any bad sides from the Fina?
    I was using 4AD (750 mg per day) until yesterday. I have switched to 200 mg per day of TNE (from synovex). I am just using an alcohol carrier for all my transdermals (65% Iso Alcohol or Ethanol, 25% IPM, and 10% OA). Very easy to make and no skin irritation or smell like you get with DMSO. Seems to work.

    Yep, I am getting some sides from the fina but I love it!!!

    Pumps out of this world (lower back pain is killer), agression / irritability, dark urine, sweating like a mofo, breathing difficulty, etc.

    That's why I say that transdermal is effective enough for me at this point in time.

    I agree that I will wait to inject with legit (not home made) steroids -- and even then I think I will always bake them first to be on the safe side. I have heard too many horror stories. Sure many don't have any problem but why gamble?
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    Originally posted by jediclampet
    Thanks jweave! I have read that thread but that dripping thing sounded like a bit of a pain in the arse - but maybe it's not so bad in reality.



    I was using 4AD (750 mg per day) until yesterday. I have switched to 200 mg per day of TNE (from synovex). I am just using an alcohol carrier for all my transdermals (65% Iso Alcohol or Ethanol, 25% IPM, and 10% OA). Very easy to make and no skin irritation or smell like you get with DMSO. Seems to work.

    Yep, I am getting some sides from the fina but I love it!!!

    Pumps out of this world (lower back pain is killer), agression / irritability, dark urine, sweating like a mofo, breathing difficulty, etc.

    That's why I say that transdermal is effective enough for me at this point in time.

    I agree that I will wait to inject with legit (not home made) steroids -- and even then I think I will always bake them first to be on the safe side. I have heard too many horror stories. Sure many don't have any problem but why gamble?
    Your transdermal carrier might be better for test.
    What the hell is dark urine from?
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    Originally posted by badbart

    What the hell is dark urine from?
    I dunno. Somebody told me it's from the effects of fina on your kidneys but others said fina is not so hard on the kidneys.

    It's not too dark. I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't heard about it. Now I always look at my pee. Seems darker these last couple of weeks -- but then again the huge quatity of food I've been eating will surely also make urine darker.
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    Originally posted by jediclampet
    I can tell that I am gaining muscle but the bloat from the 4AD (way too high a dose) is horrendous. Almost over night I went from looking lean (at least relatively) to looking like a fatass!

    On day 13 (yesterday), I stopped the 4AD and started TNE (from synovex). I plan to run the TNE at 400 mg per day. I have also started using nolva at 10 mg per day.
    Bro, just curious but if you're getting alot of bloat from the 4-AD, it is obviously working very well. Why did you decide to switch over to TNE when 4-AD was working?
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    Originally posted by sikdogg


    Bro, just curious but if you're getting alot of bloat from the 4-AD, it is obviously working very well. Why did you decide to switch over to TNE when 4-AD was working?
    Well, I had really planned all along to switch to TNE. I had bought 20 gm of 4AD powder a few months back (before I knew about making TNE from synovex). I just wanted to use up the 4AD.

    But the bloat got so bad that I decided to stop the 4AD early. The bloat might mean it's working but I suddenly looked like a pregnant lard ass. Maybe I should have used something for the bloat all along. I didn't really think a lower dose of 4AD was an option since fina is so suppressive.

    Do you think that the bloat:gain ratio is about the same for TNE compared to 4AD? I am only on the first full day of TNE and I could easily swith back to 4AD but I really can't deal with that much bloat.

    This is my very first cycle and I am learning as I go. No matter what, I think I will have some good, keepable gains when this is all over!
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    Let us know how the TNE works. It didn't work well for me in my transdermal solution.
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    Originally posted by jediclampet


    I dunno. Somebody told me it's from the effects of fina on your kidneys but others said fina is not so hard on the kidneys.

    It's not too dark. I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't heard about it. Now I always look at my pee. Seems darker these last couple of weeks -- but then again the huge quatity of food I've been eating will surely also make urine darker.
    I'd get some blood work done to check your Kidney funtion just to be safe. Once your kidneys are shot they don't heal like your liver.
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    Originally posted by badbart
    Let us know how the TNE works. It didn't work well for me in my transdermal solution.
    Don't worry; now that I have started I will be updating you all (and asking for advice no doubt) about my cycle and post cycle.

    In hindsight, I guess it could work out well that I stopped the 4AD earlier than I planned because I will have some to use if I decide to switch back because the TNE is ineffective. This will buy me some time to get more 4AD so I can finish my cycle.
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    Originally posted by badbart


    I'd get some blood work done to check your Kidney funtion just to be safe. Once your kidneys are shot they don't heal like your liver.
    Yep, I think I will. It works out well because I work at a clinical lab so I can do my own blood work for free as often as I like!
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    Originally posted by jediclampet


    Yep, I think I will. It works out well because I work at a clinical lab so I can do my own blood work for free as often as I like!
    Thats cool. Let us know the results. This could settle the debate wether fina is hard on your kidneys.
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    bump

    curious about the bloodwork
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    To update you all on my cycle. This is the end of Day 16. I am starting T3 at low doses and have been using nolva at 10 mg per day for 4 days now. I also switched to TNE (instead of 4AD) 4 days ago.

    I did my lab work last night. On my CBC - everything was normal. I ran "the works" on myself for blood chemistry, so I will only discuss abnormal results.

    My BUN (blood urea nitrogen: an indicator or kidney function) is elevated. Mine was 23, normal is 8-20.

    My phosphorous was 5.3, normal is 2.5-4.5.

    My cholesterol was 94, normal is 105-200.

    My Creatine Kinase was 501, normal is 55-170.

    My magnesium was 2.3, normal is 1.6-2.3.

    Everything else wa normal.

    I think the elevated BUN is probably due to the tren. I don't remember it ever being elevated before.

    Not sure why my phos is high.

    My cholesterol is usually on the low side but I am surprised that it is low now since I have been eating a lot of meat, etc, and not doing much cardio. Maybe the nolva, but after only 3 days?

    Creatine Kinase is always high. This enzyme can be used to assess muscle damage and I have had it up to over 2000 after leg day!

    The Mg is high because I am supplementing with it several times a day trying to reduce cramping from the tren.

    Note: I was pleased to see that my liver enzymes were normal because they were elevated a few months ago when I came off creatine for the first time in over 2 years!

    Question or comments welcome.
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    Originally posted by jediclampet
    To update you all on my cycle. This is the end of Day 16. I am starting T3 at low doses and have been using nolva at 10 mg per day for 4 days now. I also switched to TNE (instead of 4AD) 4 days ago.

    I did my lab work last night. On my CBC - everything was normal. I ran "the works" on myself for blood chemistry, so I will only discuss abnormal results.

    My BUN (blood urea nitrogen: an indicator or kidney function) is elevated. Mine was 23, normal is 8-20.

    My phosphorous was 5.3, normal is 2.5-4.5.

    My cholesterol was 94, normal is 105-200.

    My Creatine Kinase was 501, normal is 55-170.

    My magnesium was 2.3, normal is 1.6-2.3.

    Everything else wa normal.

    I think the elevated BUN is probably due to the tren. I don't remember it ever being elevated before.

    Not sure why my phos is high.

    My cholesterol is usually on the low side but I am surprised that it is low now since I have been eating a lot of meat, etc, and not doing much cardio. Maybe the nolva, but after only 3 days?

    Creatine Kinase is always high. This enzyme can be used to assess muscle damage and I have had it up to over 2000 after leg day!

    The Mg is high because I am supplementing with it several times a day trying to reduce cramping from the tren.

    Note: I was pleased to see that my liver enzymes were normal because they were elevated a few months ago when I came off creatine for the first time in over 2 years!

    Question or comments welcome.
    Isn't Creatine Kinase and BUN related to your kidneys? I have no idea if these are anything to worry about. I'm surprised your cholesterol is low.
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    Got this from Web MD:

    A blood urea nitrogen (BUN) test measures the amount of nitrogen in the blood that comes from urea. Urea is a waste product formed when protein is broken down in the body. It is produced in the liver and eliminated from the body in urine.

    A BUN test is done to estimate how well the kidneys are functioning. If the kidneys are not able to remove urea from the blood normally, the BUN level increases. Heart failure, dehydration, or a diet high in protein can also increase the BUN level. Liver disease or damage can decrease the BUN level, because urea is made in the liver. A decreased BUN level can occur normally in the second or third trimester of pregnancy.

    A BUN test may be done along with a blood creatinine test. The level of creatinine in the blood provides information on how well the kidneys are working. A high creatinine level may mean the kidneys are not working properly. The measured blood urea nitrogen (BUN) and creatinine tests can be used to calculate the BUN-to-creatinine ratio (BUN:creatinine). A BUN-to-creatinine ratio can help a doctor predict which conditions (such as dehydration) may be causing abnormal BUN and creatinine levels and decreased kidney function. For more information, see the medical test Creatinine and Creatinine Clearance.

    A BUN test is done on a sample of blood taken from a vein.
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    Originally posted by badbart


    Isn't Creatine Kinase and BUN related to your kidneys? I have no idea if these are anything to worry about. I'm surprised your cholesterol is low.
    Creatine Kinase (CK) and Creatinine are two very different things. CK is used to assess muscle damage whereas Creatinine is used to assess kidney function (along with BUN).

    My Creatinine was 1.2 which is higher than it usually is but still within the normal range (0.8-1.5).

    That info you pulled off the web made me feel even less concerned about my elevated BUN -- since I and consuming tons of protein right now, this could be part of the reason my BUM is elevated.
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    To me none of the numbers look that far out of line, but I don't know what I'm looking out. This looks good for Tren and kidneys in low doses. My only question is dose damage to your kidneys have a cumlative effect? If it is cumlative then maybe one wouldn't want to use tren for a lot of cycles.
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    Well, I will be doing amnother blood test later in the cycle and one after the cycle so we can see what happens. My cycle is going to be 8-9 weeks so I have about 6 weeks left.
  

  
 

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