17 aa free anavar
- 04-19-2003, 03:33 PM
17 aa free anavar
in my recent readings, i have come across many synthesis texts. it is no longer a matter of making any compound, but if it is easier and cheaper to do so than other means.
i was wondering if anyone has any guesses as to change in activity of a compound with and without 17 aa, and whether it may be worthwhile to pursue such a conversion.
- 04-20-2003, 04:33 AM
i have always read llewellyn and p.a refer to a book by a man named VIDA,inside that book was a lot of compounds of the anabolic nature mifght find what ur looking for in there
- 04-20-2003, 03:04 PM
not a problem, i have whole bookstacks worth of such texts, just wondering whether anyone was interested
04-20-2003, 03:14 PM
oh ok well i would be interested...and am still interested in the converting 4-ad to test if ur still working on it
04-20-2003, 03:54 PM
that should be out next week, i already have the basics: 4ad + chloroform + MnO2 = test 90%, the rest is 4ad
04-20-2003, 03:59 PM
VERY VERY KOOL PETE MUCH APPRECIATED..IS CHLOROFORM AND MnO2 readily available..just curious
04-20-2003, 04:29 PM
MnO2 (manganese, not magnesium):
sciencelab was the first site to pop up on yahoo, so it may even be cheaper than this. i will see about the actual amounts needed on monday if i'm not to busy. i have the journal reference somewhere and i know that the university library has those journals all the way back to the stone age.
for those of you that are university students or have access to their libraries, the journals are usually organic chem related, but the place to start is specific steroid synthesis manuals and there a lot of them if your university has a serious science program. if the chemistry program is well known, then there will be even more on this subject.
oh yeah, the reaction is room temp
04-20-2003, 05:04 PM
big time karma for u..i certainly appreciate all u have done in reference to this proceedure
04-20-2003, 05:40 PM
whatever with the karma, do you know how much fun it was to do research that i wanted to instead of an assignment where they make you do something your not interested in. oh wait a minute, i used to like that too. this is just so much more fun, applying my education how i want to. thanks to whoever got this started (i believe you were involved wojo, and anyone else - thanks)
04-20-2003, 06:38 PM
YEAH I STARTED IT WITH POSTING DAN DUCHAINES DIRTY DIETING NEWSLETTER AND HOW TO CONVERT ANDRO TO TEST BUT MAN U ANDWESS DID ALL THE HARD STUFF IM AN ART MAJOR..LOL..LITTLE OUT OF MY LEAGUE
04-20-2003, 11:50 PM
Okay guys, this is great info, one thing to be cautious about..is what kind of red flags would be thrown up ordering this stuff? Are either of these used in the creation of illegal drugs, and on the DEA watch list? I strongly suggest a bit of research is done in that area, prior to happily ordering away. None of us want our door kicked down..lol!
04-21-2003, 03:02 AM
good points thats why i wa asking if they wwere readily available maybe we could get lemelange to carry at least one
04-21-2003, 02:58 PM
i already have access to chems through school and work, so not a problem when a lab does the ordering for you. also i'm in canada, so the watch lists are most likely different.
04-21-2003, 03:06 PM
any luck with amounts of the two to mix ???
04-23-2003, 10:10 PM
W/O the 17 aa it would be broken down on its first pass thru the liver. this is not what you want.
04-23-2003, 10:47 PM
well there was a lot of talk about a injectable anavar some time ago think duchain came up with the idea
04-24-2003, 12:52 AM
i don't know anything specific about liver metabolism of this compound vs others, but my guess is that unless there is a unique reason for degredation it souldn't be worse than other compounds. for example testolactone has a similar oxygen in the D ring and that compound to my knowledge has no super rate of breakdown. i suspect that the 17aa gives a lot longer than normal breakdown times which lead to such little amounts being required. however even those little amounts are enough to mess up the liver, while much larger amounts of non 17aa do not. the whole concept of first pass breakdown has been blown a little out of proportion. everything is going to have some first pass breakdown, the question is how much. even if we can prevent that, we have learned that some of the modifications which do this are in fact much more harmful than using more of the unmodified hormone especially with a time release delivery achieved by injection of esterified hormones or transdermal application of the base. testosterone is degraded quickly by the liver but we get around it by the time release delivery to keep the level constant. i believe that liver is better off removing 2 or 3 times as much unmodified hormone than a 17aa version. that leaves the question of is the unmodified version able to exhibit the same effects.
a side note:
people always talk about steroids increasing muscle protein synthesis. but what does this really mean? it can refer to the contractile apparatus, but this is only one aspect of increased synthesis of muscle proteins. how about if the enzymes responsible for replenishment of ATP from creatine phosphate or the transport of creatine into the muscle cell. if a hormone would cause the synthesis of these proteins (enzymes are proteins) to increase which would lead to increased muscle mass since you could lift more (assuming you ate enough). i assume anavar works through one of these pathways. why is this so? well you have to understand how hormones affect protein synthesis. basically they bind to proteins which allow them to bind to DNA segments in front of the coding region for the gene (any gene). the place where this binding occurs is very specific and there are also binding areas for other factors and different types of hormones, some of which can block or intensify the signal (obviously testosterone intensifies muscle building signals) - by signal, i mean the production of protein mediated through the production of RNA. in the case of anavar, it just happens that whatever binding occurs in the upstream region for that gene happens to be stronger than that of testosterone. why? there are too many possible mechanisms, but whatever it is the mechanisms are similar for any gene, it just happens that for some reason due to its unique 3D structure, anavar causes bigger protein synthesis in a specific protein involved in the creatine metabolism. the how and why may not be known to a detailed level, but once researched it would be elucidated quite quickly as all such systems are variations of the same basic idea (once again something simple adds up to be complicated.
04-24-2003, 08:25 PM
Problem with injectable anavar is that it needs to be done daily.
04-26-2003, 08:55 PM
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