Clenbuterol anabolic?

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    Clenbuterol anabolic?


    Well this is one of the studies showing a potentially anabolic effect of clen, namely its effect in IGF. I've referred to this study many times but how true it is in the real world is still up in the air. Good read anyway

    Elevated IGF-II mRNA and phosphorylation of 4E-BP1 and p70(S6k) in muscle showing clenbuterol-induced anabolism.

    Sneddon AA, Delday MI, Steven J, Maltin CA.

    The Rowett Research Institute, Bucksburn, Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, United Kingdom. aas@rri.sari.ac.uk

    Muscle wasting affects large numbers of people, but few therapeutic approaches exist to treat and/or reverse this condition. The beta(2)-adrenoceptor agonist clenbuterol produces a muscle-specific protein anabolism in both normal and catabolic muscle and has been used to limit muscle wasting in humans. Because clenbuterol appears to interact with or mimic innervation, its effect on the expression of the neurotrophic agents insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-II and H19 and their putative pathways was examined in normal rat plantaris muscle. The results showed that the well-documented early effects of clenbuterol on protein metabolism were preceded by elevated levels of IGF-II and H19 transcripts together with increased phosphorylation of eukaryotic initiation factor (eIF)4E binding protein-1 (4E-BP1) and p70(S6k). By 3 days, transcript levels for IGF-II and H19 and 4E-BP1 and p70(S6k) phosphorylation had returned to control values. These novel findings indicate that clenbuterol-induced muscle anabolism is potentially mediated, at least in part, by an IGF-II-induced activation of 4E-BP1 and p70(S6k).
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    People have gone back and forth on this I believe. I think the studies show it having an anabolic effect, but in real world use, its minimal. I've wonderded if its potential anabolic effects are strong enough to counter some of the muscle wasting associated with t3 use as it is a popular combo. The general consensus on this idea however has been that you should combine t3 w/ the real deal to make sure...

    Thoughts?
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    I was under the impression that after 2 weeks, the beta 2 receptors become dulled. The reason the T3 is used is to help with clen efficacy after 2 weeks. However, T3 supplementation leads to a decrease in TSH. So, I guess if used in short intervals, the stack should work well.
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    I agree. By itself it wouldnt' counteract the risk of loss with a normal cycle of t3. If you were doing maybe 25mcg/day for prolonged peroids of time it could, but with a normal taper, I wouldn't risk it.
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    Originally posted by scotty2
    I was under the impression that after 2 weeks, the beta 2 receptors become dulled. The reason the T3 is used is to help with clen efficacy after 2 weeks. However, T3 supplementation leads to a decrease in TSH. So, I guess if used in short intervals, the stack should work well.
    I think the fat burning effect is reduced, not the anabolic effects on IGF.
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    Originally posted by Bobo


    I think the fat burning effect is reduced, .
    You think right.
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    I think you have convinced my chubby ass into getting some liquid clen, for research purposes--
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    Well don't expect any huge gains from it. At best, its mildly anabolic. I posted this just for kicks since I've referred to it many time in other posts. Its far from an effective muscle builder but does have benefits in a cutting stack besides its fat burning effects.
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    I want it for cutting anyway--but thanks for the warning
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    bobo , the doses used in those studies were 1 mg /kg of bodyweight , u know that's 1000 mcg per kg , approx of 100 mg per day for us users ! yeah ! thats right !!! **** the igf-1 increase cos i'm gonna be dead of being grilled inside !
    now , lets look at a realistic study , at best , in humans , its increasing the rate of proteins and carbs burnt , what does that tell us ? anabolic ? no not at all eh ?
    study to show clen is not anabolic and may even hinder athletic performance .
    the Effects of the 2-Agonist Clenbuterol, and Exercise Training on Muscle Protein and Performance in Frogs
    Darryn S. Willoughby
    Dept. of Recreation and Leisure Studies, University of Southern Maine, Portland, Maine 04104
    William S. Barnes and Chris P. Ingalls
    Dept. of Health & Kinesiology
    Stephen B. Smith
    Dept. of Animal Science, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas 77843.
    ABSTRACT
    The effects of exercise training and clenbuterol on the exercise performance and muscle morphology of 69 adult male Northern grass frogs were compared. Frogs were randomly assigned to 1 of 4 groups: control (C), exercise (Ex), drug (Dr), and exercise + drug (Ex + Dr). Groups were tested before and after 6 weeks of treadmill training to evaluate treadmill exercise capacity (no. of hops) and force production during jumps. Data were analyzed with one-way MANOVAs (p < 0.05). Ex performed more hops than the other groups. In regard to force output, however, that of Dr was significantly greater that that of the other groups. For gastrocnemius weight, that of C was significantly less than for the other groups while that of Dr was significantly greater than Ex and Ex + Dr. Total muscle protein content showed no significant differences; myofibrillar protein content showed that Ex and Dr, though not significantly different from each other, were superior to C and Ex + Dr. This may suggest that clenbuterol and exercise, when combined, may impede muscle growth and performance.
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    I never looked at the full text. Is that where you saw the dosages?


    "This may suggest that clenbuterol and exercise, when combined, may impede muscle growth and performance."

    It may not....Plus both studies were done on animals with yours on frogs. I think amphibian phsyiology might be a little different than mammalian physiology. It also did say that myofibrillar protein content was greater in the Exercise + Drug group. So there was a difference but not significant. Its at best, mildly anabolic, and even that in question.
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    i'm using 200 mcg clen ed right now , see no anabolic effects , actually , most of clen's anabolic effects were supposed to be becos of its ability to work on some other receptor , and this receptor was assumed to be b3 , which is pretty low in humans .
    anyway , ure right ofcourse the study was done on a frog , but ur study is just as inaccurate , u read the whole absract or diff ones in which clen is shown to be anabolic and u see the doses , then u will come to ur own conclusion ,if u want i will post the studies here , the doses are just insane .
    i am of firm belief , clen is not anabolic , at best, its just not catabolic if u want to assume that .
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    Originally posted by raybravo
    , at best, its just not catabolic if u want to assume that .
    This was my assumption. I guess it was mistaken to ba anabolic based solely on this principle. The fact that it is typically used in a cutting stack should tell you something.
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    yes , actually , there is a debate going on at cem that beta agonists might actually reduce cortisol , so like i'm saying , it simply might not be catabolic but is never anabolic in humans .
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    Originally posted by raybravo
    i'm using 200 mcg clen ed right now , see no anabolic effects , actually , most of clen's anabolic effects were supposed to be becos of its ability to work on some other receptor , and this receptor was assumed to be b3 , which is pretty low in humans .
    anyway , ure right ofcourse the study was done on a frog , but ur study is just as inaccurate , u read the whole absract or diff ones in which clen is shown to be anabolic and u see the doses , then u will come to ur own conclusion ,if u want i will post the studies here , the doses are just insane .
    i am of firm belief , clen is not anabolic , at best, its just not catabolic if u want to assume that .
    Yeah I agree for the most part. I've always believed at best, it might be mildy anabolic. I've always taken it with a grain of salt and referenced this many times of why studies sometime do not reflect real world results. I just posted this one to show people what I was talking about. I'm actually using it right now post cycle and its working very well. Weight has been holding for over 2 weeks with me eating around maintenenace level but I'm also using other anti-catabolic agents so its tought to tell.


    Then again its tough to tell if its anti-catabolic because of its mildly anabolic properties or does it work by a different pathway. Clen is one of those things that isn't fully understood. Who knows....
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    just a thought ......


    if anaerobic capacity is increased by beta agonists , then this obviously results in better muscle fibre recruitment leading to better gains, wouldnt&nbsp; this make beta agonists anabolic to an extent ?
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    Sounds reasonable to me.
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    i was talking to big cat about how anabolic clen could be , and he was of the opinion that clen was anabolic , just very potent and that although beta agonism in fat cells results in loss of adipose tissue , in the skeletal muscle tissue , it would promote protein synthesis . anyway , found a few interesting studies done with salbutamol where it was found to increase strength in humans .
    Salbutamol, a beta 2-adrenoceptor agonist, increases skeletal muscle strength in young men.

    Martineau L, Horan MA, Rothwell NJ, Little RA.

    Department of Physiological Sciences, University of Manchester, U.K.

    1. beta 2-Adrenoceptor agonists have been shown to increase rapidly lean body mass and reverse muscle wasting in several animal models of human illness. However, no published information is available for humans. In the present study, we investigated the effects of a slow-release preparation of salbutamol or a placebo on skeletal muscle functional capacity in 12 healthy men. The strength of different muscle groups was measured on two occasions before and after 14 and 21 days of treatment. 2. No significant changes in muscle strength were observed with placebo during the trial. In contrast, the strength of both quadriceps muscles increased significantly (12 +/- 3%) after 14 days on salbutamol, and remained elevated at 21 days. Whereas the strength of the hamstring muscles of the dominant leg significantly increased after 21 days on salbutamol (22 +/- 6%), the strength of the non-dominant hamstring muscles returned to baseline values. 3. There was no significant change in the grip strength of either hand in these subjects during the trial. The maximal static inspiratory mouth pressure increased significantly (7 +/- 2%) after 14 days on salbutamol, and increased further after 21 days (15 +/- 4%); the expiratory mouth pressure remained constant. No significant changes in body weight, skinfold thickness, lean body mass or limb circumferences were measured in either group. 4. These data demonstrate that short-term administration of salbutamol increases voluntary muscle strength in man. However, the magnitude and duration of this effect vary between muscle groups. This study implies that the beta 2-adrenoceptor agonists may be of therapeutic potential in altering skeletal muscle function in humans.


    The effects of albuterol and isokinetic exercise on the quadriceps muscle group.

    Caruso JF, Signorile JF, Perry AC, Leblanc B, Williams R, Clark M, Bamman MM.

    Human Performance Laboratory, University of Miami, Coral Gables, FL 33124, USA.

    Subjects performed 9 wk of isokinetic knee extensions twice weekly. Albuterol (N = 13) or placebo (N = 9) was administered for 6 wk; groups received 16 mg.d-1 of either treatment. Training consisted of three sets of 10 repetitions at 45 degrees.s-1. Data were collected at weeks 0, 6, and 9. Concentric and eccentric variables examined included: peak torque (CPT, EPT), total work (CTW, ETW), average power (CAP, EAP), time to peak torque (CTTPT, ETTPT), peak torque to body weight ratio (CPT/BW), and work to body weight ratio (CW/BW, EW/BW). Other variables included: thigh circumference (CIRC), thigh cross-sectional area (CSA), forced vital capacity (FVC), and forced expiratory volume (FEV1), MANOVA and the Dunn-Bonferroni post-hoc found differences within groups for CPT, CTW, CAP, CPR/BW, EPT, ETTPT, and CSA. Interactions were noted for CW/BW, ETW, EAP, EPT/BW, and ETW/BW; with persons administered albuterol yielding superior values. CW/BW, ETW, and EAP showed interactions at post-testing, while EPT/BW and EW/BW interacted at both midtesting and post-testing. Results indicate therapeutic doses of albuterol administered with resistance exercise may augment strength gains.
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    Nice ray. Guess there is some truth to the claims. We'll have to wait and see. My post cycle use has gone very well.
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    Any of you used the Clen with the ketofin for longer clen cycles ?
    I'm looking for realworld results on this.

    PEACE
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    Originally posted by chi_town
    Any of you used the Clen with the ketofin for longer clen cycles ?
    I'm looking for realworld results on this.

    PEACE
    Ok, I'm not real familiar with it, is this it?:

    http://www.tpmc.com.sa/ketofen.htm

    I've read something about it downregulating beta2 receptors I believe, so that, as you said above, 2 weeks on/2 off isn't needed. Sound about right?
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    Originally posted by jweave23


    Ok, I'm not real familiar with it, is this it?:

    http://www.tpmc.com.sa/ketofen.htm&quot;]http://www.tpmc.com.sa/ketofen.htm[/URL]

    I've read something about it downregulating beta2 receptors I believe, so that, as you said above, 2 weeks on/2 off isn't needed. Sound about right?
    Yeah, that's the stuff. I was wondering if in real world trials if it has allowed longer clen cycles to be effective, as without it, more than 2-3 weeks would be a waste.

    PEACE
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    ofcourse ketotifene works . whats there to verify ? and yeah , if b2 agonism is increasing protein synthesis , probly longer cycles wud be effective
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    Regardless of whether ketofen works, what is the effect on TSH. Or, because ketofen keeps the receptors clean, makes it unecessary to use T3, thus regulating TSH?
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    t3 use is normally very important for clen use cos t3 use upregulates beta 2 receptors , and ketotifen isnt really doing the complete job , there is taurine loss from clen use and animal and bj think u can run clen longer if taurine is used cos that helps , so many other things to consider .
    i think since clen is a specific b2 agonist , it doesnt affect tsh , ephedrine on the other hand is non specific means it agonizes both Alpha and beta receptors. Alpha-2 stimulation which is still occuring however will increase or maintain T3/T4 ratio .
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    Thanks guys
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    Originally posted by raybravo
    t3 use is normally very important for clen use cos t3 use upregulates beta 2 receptors , and ketotifen isnt really doing the complete job , there is taurine loss from clen use and animal and bj think u can run clen longer if taurine is used cos that helps , so many other things to consider .
    i think since clen is a specific b2 agonist , it doesnt affect tsh , ephedrine on the other hand is non specific means it agonizes both Alpha and beta receptors. Alpha-2 stimulation which is still occuring however will increase or maintain T3/T4 ratio .
    I understand the clen itself has no affect on TSH. It is the subsequent T3 supplementation that slows TSH output. So, if ketofen can upregulate beta 2 receptors, does it make T3 supplementation unecessary, thus not affecting TSH levels?
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    it might make t3 supplementation unnecessary , yes , but why avoid t3 ?? its well known that tsh comes back and infact sometimes higher levels than it was previously .
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    Originally posted by raybravo
    it might make t3 supplementation unnecessary , yes , but why avoid t3 ?? its well known that tsh comes back and infact sometimes higher levels than it was previously .
    I was unaware of that, thanks Ray.
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    Im just bumping this cause it has such good info overall and I wanted to know if Clenbuterol has any cortisol blocking capabilities?

    Ive read steroids offer this feature but not sure if clen does?
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    Yes it offers cortisol protection.
  

  
 

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