UnicronSpawns summer cycle

[UnicronSpawn]

Description: (Hypothetically of course)My plan is to use the first 6wks as a mass phase and segue into cutting diet week 7-16. I have some LS tren ace, and some of CL's tren ace. But my plan is to start with long esters. IE: CL's tren enan, and some test cyp (Animal power) front loading the first two weeks by adding in 2cc's each of the tren ace and test prop, distributed through the week to kickstart, along w/ some D-bol to kick off. Then segue into LS prop and tren ace. (Dropping the Dbol after 6 weeks) and segueing diet from lean bulk into cutting mode at that point. THIS WILL BE MY FIRST TREN EXPERIENCE.

My plan is to preclude my cycle with 10-14 days of DNP to loose bout 10-12lbs of fat and while utilizing the anabolic rebound effect: running 500mgs of tren enan each of the first two weeks plus the 200mg's of tren ace spread through out the week, then week 3-8 run tren enan at 2 1/2cc's wich is bout 625 per week. and then run the ace for the rest of the cycle at 100mg's/ED
Easy read summary of the current plan:
Days 1-4 DNP 200mgs (really 250mgs of crystal wich is bout same as 200 powder)
Days 5-7 DNP 400mgs
Days 8-13 DNP 600mgs? (If sides are bothersome I may taper this down the last couple days)
Day 14-15 nothing.

Actuall cycle start:
Weeks 1-6 Dbol 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-6 Tren E 500mgs/wk
Weeks 1-6 Test cyp 625/wk
Weeks 1-3 test prop 100 mgs EOD
Weeks 7-12 tren A 50mgs ED
Weeks 7-16 Prop: 200mgs EOD
Weeks 11-13: superdrol 30-40mgs ED OR pheraplex 20-30mgs ED (unless I get more winny by then)
Weeks 14-16 winny orals: 50mgs ED
Weeks 15-16 HCG 500IU EOD

Then Off with Toremifene, ATD, and whatever other non suppresive stuff I can afford. (Otc test boosters such as fenu and trib, Slin or IGF and/or GH)

The first 6 weeks is to gain back any mass I lost while coming off my previous bulker and hopefully then some, then weeks 7-16 will be with gradually more caloric restricted diet. To peak the last week, and take photos for the record. I might be able to get more winny to use wks 11-13 instead of superdrol or pheraplex (or even M1T) but I think Ive spent enough money on muscle enhancing compounds for awhile. Lol. BTW I still have almost 2 kits of blue top generic GH left and plenty of Humalog. (No more IGF or MGF though) I was thinking of dropping the GH to only 2iu's a day just for the sake of being able to stay on longer. But havent decided. GH is so expensive even the cheap stuff can bankrupt a brother fast.
So there it is in overkill detail. So what do you think? Thanks......(Mattris)

 

[Boss_K]

I would run the prop and ace thru week 4. I would only use 1 oral at the end, instead of switchin it up with sd then winny. But otherwise that cycle looks fun! Also, 2iu of growth is probably plenty while you are on that amount of gear!

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Thanks for the input.
So you like my mix ester idea in the beggining? With the prop and ace EOD while the cyp and tren E build up?
I could do that for for weeks 3 and 4 too.

The only reason I was condidering swithing orals at the end is because I only had enough dough for 3 weeks of winny oral, or else I would have run it for the last 6 wks.

Im thinking I should probably end the tren before everything else. So the metabolites hanging around wont interfere with my PCT.

A friend suggested I just save my cyp and tren E for my next all out mass phase, but I have a hard time letting go of that mixed ester idea. Plus Id have to shorten the cycle to do that or else Id run out of prop. Im still open to whatever feedback I can get. I've been designing my own cycles for a while, but I still like to get bro's to chime in so I can refine the basic concept.

 

[same_old]

My plan is to preclude my cycle with 10-14 days of DNP to loose bout 10-12lbs of fat and while utilizing the anabolic rebound effect: running 500mgs of tren enan each of the first two weeks plus the 200mg's of tren ace spread through out the week, then week 3-8 run tren enan at 2 1/2cc's wich is bout 625 per week. and then run the ace for the rest of the cycle at 100mg's/ED
Easy read summary of the current plan:
Days 1-4 DNP 200mgs (really 250mgs of crystal wich is bout same as 200 powder)
Days 5-7 DNP 400mgs
Days 8-9 DNP 600mgs
Days 10-11 DNP 400mgs
Day 12 DNP 200mgs
Day 13-14 nothing.

Actuall cycle start:
Weeks 1-6 Dbol 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-8 Tren E 500mgs/wk
Weeks 1-6 Test cyp 625/wk
Weeks 1-2: tren A 50mgs EOD
Weeks 1-2 test prop 50 mgs EOD
Weeks 7-12 tren A 50mgs ED
Weeks 9-16 Prop: 200mgs EOD
Weeks 11-13: superdrol 30-40mgs ED OR pheraplex 20-30mgs ED
Weeks 14-16 winny orals: 50mgs ED
Weeks 15-16 HCG 500IU EOD

i think it is way too complicated. other comments:

2 weeks of very low-dose tren ace at the beginning probably wont do much, if anything. i'm ok with the 7-12 at the end though. ditto for the test prop - 2 weeks of a tiny dose??? DITTO for winny at the end - 3 weeks is not long enough.

i'd run that test cyp until week 9 at a minimum. it's not going to remain in your system at sufficient quantities weeks 7-9 before you start prop.

 

[warriorway]

Looks pretty awesome. Sounds like you are going to have a yo yo effect with your weight, cut, bulk, cut. You might get more from slow and steady bulks and cuts just like slow and steady lifts.

I've heard that DNP stuff if pretty catabolic. Maybe you'd want to take it while your juiced up. But then again what do I know I don't have access to that kind of stuff.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

i think it is way too complicated. other comments:

2 weeks of very low-dose tren ace at the beginning probably wont do much, if anything. i'm ok with the 7-12 at the end though. ditto for the test prop - 2 weeks of a tiny dose??? DITTO for winny at the end - 3 weeks is not long enough.

i'd run that test cyp until week 9 at a minimum. it's not going to remain in your system at sufficient quantities weeks 7-9 before you start prop.

Sorry I had a type-o in there. The prop wk 9-16 was supposed to say weeks 7-16 (right after the cyp runs out) And the ace wks 7-16 was supposed to say 9-16. (I switched em by mistake. But I edited it just now, so its fixed.)


Yeah the ace and prop doses are real low for first couple weeks. My idea with that was to have instantaneous test and tren available (since Id be running the long acting test and long acting tren from day one, and they'll no doubt take a few weeks to build up in plasma levels.) So I figure If I have immediate D-bol, test, tren available while the Tren E and Test Cyp build up, I could utilize the anabolic rebound of from the DNP right off the bat. If you think thats not enough ace and prop even with the slowly building cyp and Tren enan, I could up the ace to 100mgs EOD (instead of 50) and Prop to 200 EOD (instead of 100) for those first two weeks. That would make it almost like a front load. I could even extend that mix ester tren/test idea to week 3 or 4 and still have enough to complete the rest of the cycle as planned.

Id love to use the winny for 5-6 wks, it's just that I didnt have enough cash at the time I got it. Howerver, I may be able to get more by the time I hit week 11 if you think it will be that much better than doing superdrol or PP wks 11-13 and winny wks 14-16.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Looks pretty awesome. Sounds like you are going to have a yo yo effect with your weight, cut, bulk, cut. You might get more from slow and steady bulks and cuts just like slow and steady lifts.

I've heard that DNP stuff if pretty catabolic. Maybe you'd want to take it while your juiced up. But then again what do I know I don't have access to that kind of stuff.

Yeah I just came off a steady 22 wk bulk, so the two weeks of DNP should just make it so that even after 6 wks of clean bulk, I'll still have enough time left in the cycle to diet off the rest and get ripped.

Theres a lot of misunderstandings and mystique surrounding DNP in the BB'ing world. But from what I've been able to assimilate, I'ts mechanism of action makes it "Non-proteolytic". However, since people on it are almost incapable of synthesizing and maintaining a significant supply of glycogen, they do tend to "flatten out". But that's also believed to be ONE of the reasons the "anabolic rebound" effect is seen upon discontinuance. Apparently (in a nut shell) it works by making the synthesis of ATP to carbohydrates so inneficient that the body burns mostly fat. Unlike T3 and sympathemimetics like clen, ephedrine, and Albuterol, wich speed up general caloric expenditure wich includes protien, thus making it easy to inadvertantly loose muscle mass w/ those compounds. But with DNP, if all factors are optimal, It can litterally burn a pound a day of pure bodyfat. (Not muscle and water). It does require rediculous ammounts of water to stay hydrated, and is much more risky and easy to mess up with than the aforementioned. But it can be done.

But youre right about there being some zig zagging. But the zig zagging was preceded by a looooooong straight bulk, and will be followed by a long straight cut. Im just trying to take advantage of some foreseable action/reaction factors that I believe this will facilitate. Ya know bro?

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Im bumping this.

I modified my original post to reflect the changes I've made to my plan. I dropped the mixed tren ester idea for the first two weeks, but kept it for the test, extending it to week 3. It's different from a front load, as the total weekly dose is only about 1 1/2 times the regular cyp dose, and the extra 50% or so is comprised of fast acting prop instead of speeding up the build up of the cyp in plasma, Im merely getting instant gratification w/ the prop, until the end of week 3 by wich time I predict the cyp and tren E levels will have built up (at least enough to illicit formidable response). However, I could raise the 1st 3wks prop dose to 200mg's EOD, if you guys think it's good idea. I know I can tolerate relatively high test doses for a while, but not sure if it's neccessary.

Another change I made was to stop the tren E at the same time as the Dbol and cyp, and switch to prop and tren ace at the same time. And to stop the tren ace 4wks before the end of the cycle.

The reason for dropping my mixed tren ester idea was not because I dont think that it was a cool idea, but because this is my first tren experience and a knowing that different people have mixed reactions to Tren, I dont want to super-saturate myself in case Im one of the unlucky ones who gets bad sides from Tren. As an added precaution, I've bought some cabergoline incase of excessive Tren sides. If this goes well, then perhaps next time I use tren I'll use the more popular 75-100mgs a day. But I wont know till I see how I react to it.

Im still interested in constructive comments on this cycle as I still have two weeks before I start as of this writing.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Ok Im going to try bumping this one more time, if nobody has anything to say this time then I'll give in and let the thread die. BTW today was first day of DNP/ECA.

 

[Alexander]

Looks good. From what I understand you may want to up your GH to 4-6iu per day, it would seem during a pretty hardcore AAS cycle would be the optimum time to hit the GH. I'll be starting a cycle in a few weeks, and plan to use 6-8iu ED during cycle. It'll probably only be a 6 weeker(test p, tren a).

 

[Beowulf]

I can't really help you on the cycle, as I'm still a newb with AAS, but I do wonder if 200mg prop EOD isn't overkill on top of the cyp and E. You seem to know that you tolerate it well, but is it worth the resources? As I said, I'm not too helpful in this dept. (yet :twisted: ), so you probably know better than me.

BTW, I bet you'd get a lot more hits on this if you include some sense of what is in the cycle in your title. I don't know if you can still edit it, but including something about mixed test esters and tren will probably get a lot more traffic. Plus, your cycle is fairly complex, which probably means most people don't really know what to say. Just a thought.

See ya soon

 

[UnicronSpawn]

I can't really help you on the cycle, as I'm still a newb with anabolic steroids, but I do wonder if 200mg prop EOD isn't overkill on top of the cyp and E. You seem to know that you tolerate it well, but is it worth the resources? As I said, I'm not too helpful in this dept. (yet :twisted: ), so you probably know better than me.

BTW, I bet you'd get a lot more hits on this if you include some sense of what is in the cycle in your title. I don't know if you can still edit it, but including something about mixed test esters and tren will probably get a lot more traffic. Plus, your cycle is fairly complex, which probably means most people don't really know what to say. Just a thought.

See ya soon

Hey whats up bro? I thought that was you replying to my thread.
Yeah, I wanted to change the title, but I couldnt figure out how. I think I cant change it. I dont know.

I've run 750mgs a week of test b4, and as much as 1250 for for front loading (so only two weeks at that dose.) Im figuring that the cyp will just be building up by the time I discontinue the prop, so it should be a pretty brief overlap period.
The reason Im thinking of doin the prop 200mg's EOD is just basically out of lazyness, cuz I dont want to pin 100ED. Plus I have loads of 23g 1 1/2 inch pins wich make it hard to utilize all the possible injection sites. And I will be traveling in mid cycle so I dont want to carry around a bunch of loose needles and switch needles once I draw the solution every time and then have to worry about discreetly disposing of the needles in someone elses house, with children around. So w/ EOD my butt wont get as sore from the repeated 1 1/2 shots. Even switching sides ED would leave one cheek only 48 hours to recover. Lol. The first 3wks are the only time the cyp and prop would be used together, and I was thinking of just 100EOD for that period I got such a sweet deal on the prop that I dont mind using 11cc's of it the first 3wks.

I had the tren listed at a higher dose and for longer when I started this thread, but I got talked into being more conservative w/ it, cuz the guy's that get away w/ 100mgsED of tren ace ussually are familiar w/ how they react to tren. And this is my first tren run.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Looks good. From what I understand you may want to up your GH to 4-6iu per day, it would seem during a pretty hardcore anabolic steroids cycle would be the optimum time to hit the GH. I'll be starting a cycle in a few weeks, and plan to use 6-8iu ED during cycle. It'll probably only be a 6 weeker(test p, tren a).

Man I would looooooooooovvvvveee to run 6-8iu's/ED if I had the duckets. Just Im not sure that I'll be able to afford more by the time what I have runs out. I've been on around 10 or 11weeks, and I have around 180IU's left.

I thought about doing 4iu's on wkout days (2ui's 45mins after moring slin during slin periods and 2ui's 45mins after pwo slin shot) and just 2iu's 45mins after moring slin shot on non wkout days. But Im only going to be on the slin a small portion of the cycle, so Im not sure what to do w/ my GH dose.

This IS my first GH cycle. Id feel like it was a waste if I didnt stay on long enough ( im told duration is critical w/ GH) On the other hand, I have read about short term GH use such as in ALR's books. And id feel pretty dumb if I didnt use enough to get the benefits either. I might just have to hustle myself some more dough and get more GH. At the rate Im going I have about 4-5wks to get more, or else I'll have to stop at only 15-16wks. Id like to go at least 20wks total. Better yet Id like some to bridge with after the END of this cycle! But that would cost alot more than I have to get enough kits to run it that long. At least at 4iu's/ED. Sorry now Im just thinking outloud (in print.)

 

[Beelzebub]

Description: (Hypothetically of course)My plan is to use the first 6wks as a mass phase and segue into cutting diet week 7-16. I have some LS tren ace, and some of CL's tren ace. But my plan is to start with long esters. IE: CL's tren enan, and some test cyp (Animal power) front loading the first two weeks by adding in 2cc's each of the tren ace and test prop, distributed through the week to kickstart, along w/ some D-bol to kick off. Then segue into LS prop and tren ace. (Dropping the Dbol after 6 weeks) and segueing diet from lean bulk into cutting mode at that point. THIS WILL BE MY FIRST TREN EXPERIENCE.

My plan is to preclude my cycle with 10-14 days of DNP to loose bout 10-12lbs of fat and while utilizing the anabolic rebound effect: running 500mgs of tren enan each of the first two weeks plus the 200mg's of tren ace spread through out the week, then week 3-8 run tren enan at 2 1/2cc's wich is bout 625 per week. and then run the ace for the rest of the cycle at 100mg's/ED
Easy read summary of the current plan:
Days 1-4 DNP 200mgs (really 250mgs of crystal wich is bout same as 200 powder)
Days 5-7 DNP 400mgs
Days 8-13 DNP 600mgs? (If sides are bothersome I may taper this down the last couple days)
Day 14-15 nothing.

Actuall cycle start:
Weeks 1-6 Dbol 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-6 Tren E 500mgs/wk
Weeks 1-6 Test cyp 625/wk
Weeks 1-3 test prop 100 mgs EOD
Weeks 7-12 tren A 50mgs ED
Weeks 7-16 Prop: 200mgs EOD
Weeks 11-13: superdrol 30-40mgs ED OR pheraplex 20-30mgs ED (unless I get more winny by then)
Weeks 14-16 winny orals: 50mgs ED
Weeks 15-16 HCG 500IU EOD

Then Off with Toremifene, ATD, and whatever other non suppresive stuff I can afford. (Otc test boosters such as fenu and trib, Slin or IGF and/or GH)

The first 6 weeks is to gain back any mass I lost while coming off my previous bulker and hopefully then some, then weeks 7-16 will be with gradually more caloric restricted diet. To peak the last week, and take photos for the record. I might be able to get more winny to use wks 11-13 instead of superdrol or pheraplex (or even M1T) but I think Ive spent enough money on muscle enhancing compounds for awhile. Lol. BTW I still have almost 2 kits of blue top generic GH left and plenty of Humalog. (No more IGF or MGF though) I was thinking of dropping the GH to only 2iu's a day just for the sake of being able to stay on longer. But havent decided. GH is so expensive even the cheap stuff can bankrupt a brother fast.
So there it is in overkill detail. So what do you think? Thanks......(Mattris)

my 2ml's, take it for what it's worth.

you're making this way too complicated and bulking/cutting in the same cycle, especially so close together, generally doesn't work out so well (unless of course you're genetically gifted, i'm going to assume that you're not, simply by statistics).

1) if you're looking to lean down, then i say do so from the start. same goes with bulking.
2) too many orals. i'm of the belief of no more than one oral per cycle.
3) back to way too complicated. pick long esters or short esters. with the length of your cycle, there's no need to mix them both.

if i had to design your cycle for LBM gains accompanying fat loss:
weeks 1-16
testprop 150mg/eod
trenace100mg/eod
HCG 250iu's/2x/wk

if you wanted, dbol for the first 4-5 weeks, then no more orals for the duration. JMO on the matter. if leaning down is your ultimate goal, then start from the beginning with working on your diet, training, cardio, etc. unless you're very lean now, i can't picture you being happy with the results after only 8 weeks of cutting.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Thanks for chiming in Beelzebub.

I think I'll have enough ace to do the whole cycle at that dose, so saving my tren Enan for another time IS a possibility.
I thought the winny might help me harden up my look at the end, and replace the tren, so I wouldnt be on it so long. But Im getting mixed feedback on tren and this is my first tren cycle. Some people tell me not to keep the tren all the way to the finish (something about suppresive metabolites.) Others say it's fine to use tren the whole 16wks.

I see youre point w/ the ping ponging between cutt and bulk.
But part of my motive behind that is that I feel I've flattened out a little since my last cycle. Part of it is that I bulked for so long that I slowly accumulated a bit of a gut. And the third part is wanting to shed some of the fat before I address the flattening out issue and to use the DNP kick off to spring board into the initial phase of the cycle, wich I would try to make a "clean bulk", so as not to make it to hard to diet the rest off come phase two, yet starting the main body of the cut at maximum fullness.

You got me thinking though. And I guess I DO tend to complicate ALOT of things in life. Sometimes and in certain endeavor's complicated can be good if each layer has a synergistic function, but other times and in other things, sometimes less is more.

Or maybe Im just a maniac. I dont know.

But you may be right about the 8wks not being enough to get really shredded. To be totally honest, I havent done my body comp tests to know how much I have to loose. BTW, what I meant w/ the DNP is that it would precede the AAS cycle, not actually trying to use it during the first two weeks of the dbol lean bulk. That would be like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. Lol. I actually just started it yesterday, so I got two more weeks to decide what to do w/ this cycle.

 

[Beowulf]

Dude, just responded to your email. You can always keep cutting until you get to where you want to be. If you're there in 8 weeks you can slowly increase cals. If not, keep shredding until you get things.

 

[CHAPS]

I agree i think your making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be, i say just cut, Test Prop/Tren Ace/Winstrol/GH.

 

[Irish Cannon]

im supprised nobody has suggested var in place of the winny

 

[Alexander]

He does not have var, and he isn't rolling in dough at the moment.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Maybe I could treat the first 4 wks as a body recomp, with real clean eating, but not to low on the cals, so I can build a little bit of fat free mass. Then after that kick it into gear (no pun intended) lowering cals just slightly and start getting more consistent w/ the cardio, and maybe add in an ECA or some albuterol, to crank the metabolism. Then keep cutting till I reach a conditioning PR.

That sound better?

I think Id need more prop if I were to not use my leftover cyp for part of it.

What about the length of the tren?
An aquaintance on SM swears that I should stop the tren 4 wks before everything else because of what he explained as suppressive metabolites that could interfere w/ HPTA recovery. Anyone have anything to say about that?
This is my first tren run, so I really have no idea. All I know is what people have told me and what I've read in drug profiles, and cycle logs.

 

[jmh80]

Beelz - I'm curious as to why you recommended D-bol for cutting and not Anavar??

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Im pretty sure he said to start w/ dbol because he knew thats what I had.

 

[jmh80]

Ahhh.

Well...:dump: :fart: :gas:

(I got these emoticons added earlier. Hehe.)

 

[Beelzebub]

Beelz - I'm curious as to why you recommended D-bol for cutting and not Anavar??

don't ever question me. :trout:

nah, same reason as he said. if he had mentioned var, i would have as well. play with the cards you're dealt

besides, dbol won't make him fat or anything. he can still begin his diet and just have to shed some water weight when the dbol run is over. simple stuff.

 

[same_old]

Maybe I could treat the first 4 wks as a body recomp, with real clean eating, but not to low on the cals, so I can build a little bit of fat free mass. Then after that kick it into gear (no pun intended) lowering cals just slightly and start getting more consistent w/ the cardio, and maybe add in an ECA or some albuterol, to crank the metabolism. Then keep cutting till I reach a conditioning PR.

i like that idea. take advantage of the springboard effect after DNP with some serious anabolism coupled with plenty of CLEAN cals, then segue into a lower carb period where maintenance of mass is done by the juice and you burn the fat off with cardio and diet. except, with dbol you will end up dropping some weight after that first 4 weeks on it. unless you add some dex or letro....

 

[CHAPS]

I say forget the re-comp and do a fullout cut, you just got done bulking, now it's time to cut. Also Turinabol would be a good oral to use in place of winny if Anavar was cost prohibitive, but ya you've got winny so use the winny.

 

[DR.D]

Don't mix the test esters. I'd need a calculator to figure out your original cycle! Keep it simple and run enanthate or cyp, up front at least. Prop is fine too, but don't start mixing. You can run orals throughout the cycle, I usually do, but take little breaks, 3wks on 2wks off usually on a long cycle and take liver supps. Do bloodwork at the midpoint if you feel bad or drop the orals your on. I think I just get away with it because of the T4.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Don't mix the test esters. I'd need a calculator to figure out your original cycle! Keep it simple and run enanthate or cyp, up front at least. Prop is fine too, but don't start mixing. You can run orals throughout the cycle, I usually do, but take little breaks, 3wks on 2wks off usually on a long cycle and take liver supps. Do bloodwork at the midpoint if you feel bad or drop the orals your on. I think I just get away with it because of the T4.

1) I know Id be just a tad short on prop to use it exclusively the whole cycle for the length and dose Im wanting to do, and I happen to have just enough cyp to last about 6wks, wich is how long I was figuring on running the Dbol and doing the recomp period. (I may end the recomp earlier than that to make sure I have time to get really ripped by the end of the cycle. (I'll use the mirror to decide that.)

2)So your against using the prop at the beginning while I wait for the cyp to kick in? I just thought an explosive cycle entrance might help me take advantage of the fat free gains made possible by the DNP rebound effect. But if your sure the tren ace and Dbol will be equally sufficient in the beggining, I'll just use the cyp till I run out, then switch to prop.

I wanted to run the Dbol the first 6wks, or at least until my recomp period is done. (maybe as short as 4wks, depending on how Im looking at the time.) I have exacly enough for 43days of dbol. And exactly enough winny for 22 days. (I probably should have posted my idea for feedback BEFORE I got my gear, but......too late now.) And Id prefer to avoid needing to get anything else for awhile. (It's been a scary world out there for our kind lately.) Plus money is a factor. (Especially since I realized I might need another GH kit or two to get the most out of that.) Allthough in a pinch I could get a little more gear.

3) I know you do the 3wks on 2off w/ the oral's, but what about 6on 3off followed by 2on 2off followed by 3on?
(adds up to 16wks) That would allow me to end with 3wks of winny (my supplied ammount) and To use my Dbol for the recomp period at wich point I'll be trying to gain some lean mass. (Im pretty confident that I can manipulate my diet to facilitate that while keeping the fat at bay.)

4)And about the tren......... Ive heard from a couple people that it's good to end tren a couple few weeks before you end the test. What's your opinion on that Dr D?

 

[Beowulf]

Hey Uni, my rotation got a bit off schedule. Can you do chest on Saturday instead of back? If not, no big deal. Let me know.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Hey Uni, my rotation got a bit off schedule. Can you do chest on Saturday instead of back? If not, no big deal. Let me know.

I can do ANY BP you want on sat. I've been sitting on my arse since I puked at my friday wkout.

 

[Beowulf]

Chest it is :head:

How are you feeling with the DNP?

 

[UnicronSpawn]

I Feel fine. Im only up to 2caps/day. I bump it up to 3 on Saturday.
Only thing I noticed is that if its hot out and I move around too much w/ layers of clothes that I get winded easy and start to feel hot. But I've yet to even require the use of my AC. I've just been laying around w/ my fan on my head. Havent lost a ton of fat yet, but I am starting to notice a slight difference. It probably wont be totally apparant until two or three days after I stop though. It's true what they say about carb cravings on DNP. However, I've been keeping the carbs pretty clean. The guy I got the stuff from puts subutramine (Meridia) in the caps as filler so as to quell the intensity of the cravings.

So yeah we'll do chest on Sat. Im not sure what to expect from myself in terms of weight used and stamina, but Im not going to let the DNP be an excuse not to give max effort. Im looking forward to sat.

 

[Beowulf]

Don't sweat the weights for this Saturday. You'll have plenty of time to be Hercules once you get into the cycle
:good:

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Don't sweat the weights for this Saturday. You'll have plenty of time to be Hercules once you get into the cycle
:good:

:bb:

 

[Beowulf]

Yeah, I'll take any excuse to use the new smilies, even if it is to clear the room

:fart:


:gas:

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Man, the DNP induced reduction of muscle glycogen is seriously flattening me out. At first I thought it was in my head but I measured the upper arms, and theyre down over a quarter inch. That might not sound like much, but they were allready down half an inch since 5wks ago, (wich was two weeks after the end of my last cycle.) Makes me self concious and want to stay indoors all day.
:sad: I know, lame but true.

 

[Ubiquitous]

I have felt that same pain... Cutting after a cycle will do that to you my friend.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

You know what Im talking about.

The thing is, DNP is supposedly non-proteolytic due to it's mechanism of action (disruption of electron transport chain and subsequent inhibition of ATP synthesis resulting in the body using mostly fat to facilitate basic energy requirements.) and the flattening out effect is espoused to be entirely from the inabliity to synthesize new glycogen in muscles. But I didnt think THAT much of my muscles were just glycogen. Im like damn man, THAT"S all the muscle I have under the water and stored carbs?

:wtf: I just hope they fill back out upon discontinuance. Theoretically they should. But I've been wrong before.

 

[DR.D]

... 2)So your against using the prop at the beginning while I wait for the cyp to kick in? I just thought an explosive cycle entrance might help me take advantage of the fat free gains made possible by the DNP rebound effect. But if your sure the tren ace and Dbol will be equally sufficient in the beggining, I'll just use the cyp till I run out, then switch to prop.

3) I know you do the 3wks on 2off w/ the oral's, but what about 6on 3off followed by 2on 2off followed by 3on? (adds up to 16wks) That would allow me to end with 3wks of winny (my supplied ammount) and To use my Dbol for the recomp period at wich point I'll be trying to gain some lean mass. (Im pretty confident that I can manipulate my diet to facilitate that while keeping the fat at bay.)

4)And about the tren......... Ive heard from a couple people that it's good to end tren a couple few weeks before you end the test. What's your opinion on that Dr D?

I can feel cyp kick in by day 2, just have to frontload the dose. You can use prop with it, it just get's complicated.

Man, be careful with that 600mg DNP. That's a fat dose. They say 10ml of glycerin/d can help with the flatness, but I've never tried it. Anadrol helps with the flatness for sure!

You can run your orals at 3wks on/1wk off for 4 straight months if you like. That would give the maximum results. It just depends on how good your liver detoxifies. If you force it, take smart supps and pray daily!

Yeah, it's not good to end on tren for sure. I usually phase out on test and a mild, low dose oral like SD.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Just bumping it (DNP) up to 600mg's today. I've been at 400mg's for a few days and besides the flatness, and sweating alot. And some lethargy, it's been pretty tolerable. Did light cardio yesterday on it. About 20mins. Im allready down over 7lbs and counting. I think about 3 of those lbs came from my bi's and tri's......JK......But not really. I have some glycerin, but havent been using it since the guy I dealt w/ said he has some but he hasnt used it for years cuz he didnt think it made much difference. (But I could try it and see for myself, paid $4 for the stuff, I might as well try it.)

So I guess I could do 3wks dbol 1 off, 3 more then 1off.
Then thats the part Im not sure about. I have the winny, but I wanted to use that to harden up closer to the end. I have several other options, for wks 9-11. I could do superdrol, PP, H-max (generic halodrol), M1T
Or, ummmmmmm..... M4OHN, or even MDien.

Sooooo I guess 3wks of one of those, 1 off then 3wks winny and run nothing but test prop for the final week. (using HCG starting in the middle of the winny phase, and ending 2-3 days after the prop.)

In the past my liver HAS been shown to recover quickly, but Im not looking to push it's limits or anything.

I can front load the cyp, it just means I'll be running out sooner and will have to switch to prop sooner. Wich is ok w/ me.

So upon revision the proposed cycle looks like:


Week 1. 1250mg's test cyp
Weeks 2-5. 625mg's test cyp
Weeks 1-3 & weeks 5-7. 50mg's Dbol ED.
Weeks 1-12. 100mg's tren ace EOD
Weeks 6-16. 200mg's test prop EOD
Weeks 9-11. Undetermined oral
Weeks 13-15. 50mg's winny ED
weeks 14-16. 500IU HCG EOD


No mixing esters. Im not sure how Id calculate it if I did. Would probably of just been more or less guessing.

So hows that look?

 

[Ubiquitous]

I think you might run the chance of desensitizing your leydig cells running HCG like that. I just don't like to risk such a thing because it screws your recovery if it happens. I'd rather not play catch up, and run it per Swale's tried and true protocol.. the 250iu 2x/week idea.

You may see less sides running Tren A 50mg ED.. It was night and day for me in regards to sweating and insomnia. 12 weeks is kinda long for that.. and a lot of peers figure 8 weeks is a good run for the compound.

I'm not personally a fan of Frontloads. I recently have been swayed even more by the speculation that it might raise your SHBG levels in your body's attempt to balance... hindering the rest of your cycle as a result.

I think you'd fare better with using Prop 1-6, get more cyp, enough to run at least 10 weeks of it, and Bookend with the Prop.

I don't know, it's just me here. I don't mess with the devil's juice. I'm Natty.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

I think you might run the chance of desensitizing your leydig cells running HCG like that. I just don't like to risk such a thing because it screws your recovery if it happens. I'd rather not play catch up, and run it per Swale's tried and true protocol.. the 250iu 2x/week idea.

You may see less sides running Tren A 50mg ED.. It was night and day for me in regards to sweating and insomnia. 12 weeks is kinda long for that.. and a lot of peers figure 8 weeks is a good run for the compound.

I'm not personally a fan of Frontloads. I recently have been swayed even more by the speculation that it might raise your SHBG levels in your body's attempt to balance... hindering the rest of your cycle as a result.

I think you'd fare better with using Prop 1-6, get more cyp, enough to run at least 10 weeks of it, and Bookend with the Prop.

I don't know, it's just me here. I don't mess with the devil's juice. I'm Natty.

Devil's juice.....:icon_lol:

I REALLY dont want to place another order at this time. It's been horror story after horror story lately w/ the DEA having a hard-on the size of Long Dan silver for domestic sources and their customers. Id just as soon stay out of that mess and make do with what I got. I've been fortunate, but I dont want to push it.

I could run the prop upfront but if what you read about SHBG upregulation is correct, then doing that concurrently w/ the cyp would probably have a similar effect as frontloading on SHBG wouldnt it?

Im an indescicive person to begin with, and Im getting some mixed idea's to boot. In all likely hood ANY of these idea's could be at least adequate, but when you spend all this time looking for the OPTIMAL situation, it can make it hard to pick an option and go with it with full confindence.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Update: 1) trained chest w/ Beowulf today. This was my first day of 3 DNP caps (600mg's). I was up a lb from yesterday, but whatever, that could mean any number of things. It was a pretty hot out, and I was feeling overheated by the end of the wkout. Actually, I felt pretty much like total crap. Stomach felt a little wierd. I downed more than 3/4 gallon of water just in the time I was there.

2) I ended up caving in and getting some 23g 1" needles. (just the needle). Wich I didnt want to do because of the hassle of more stuff to dispose of while staying at someone elses place. The significance of that is that I am no longer confined to glute shot's wich was ONE of the reasons I had planned on doing my ace and prop EOD instead of ED. Now I've opened up the possibility of more site area's wich obviously means I can pin ED and rotate in such a manner that avoids over frequent hit's in the same spot. My thoughts now are that I'll pin ED w/ the ace/prop, until it becomes an unbareable hassle. If and when that happens, I can switch to the EOD dosing for pure convenience. Of course the doses will be cut in half for ED dosing.

3) Im torn between 3 options for the Test. I've narrowed down to this by deciding that I dont want to get more of anything for a long time. First option would be to Front load the cyp (1st wk only) and have enough to last 5wks, Then kick in the prop. Second option would be not to front load cyp and have just enough for the first 6wks, again switching to prop at that point. Third option would be to run the cyp normaly for the 6wks, but to use 100mg's prop ED for just the first wk just to have immediate test available while cyp builds up. The Tren would stay at 50mg's ED (or 100 EOD) in either of these scenario's.

Thoughts?

 

[Ubiquitous]

get comfortable with ED rotation... it is a must.. Delts/traps/pecs/glutes/ventroglutes are good with painful gear on an ED schedule... for me at least.

Did Beo talk **** about me? I know I'm always on his mind.

I think you might already know my opinion on #3.. I would run Prop 1-6 and run Cyp for 12 with a bookend of Prop at the end.

You had stated to me you don't want to get more Cyp.. so ... ****.. I still think it may be kind of a waste to only run 6 weeks. Prove me wrong Unicron.. prove me wrong. I would hate to see anyone waste anything.. wasteful people irritate me as much as dishonest people.

As for the SHBG, you may have a point with the Prop addition.. In reality I hope that the SHBG theory regarding frontloading is wrong.. Although myself have never been a firm believer in the FL approach as I never noticed a difference between that and the regular... It always took upwards of 6 weeks with Enan/Cyp.

Sincerely,
a hungry Ubi

 

[CHAPS]

Yep when your glycogen stores are full you look 30% bigger i believe the number is. Also what is your diet like? I've read normal dieting rules don't apply when using DNP, like your supposed to eat MORE carbs, and when you eat them your temperature sky rockets.

 

[Beowulf]

Did Beo talk **** about me? I know I'm always on his mind.

:toofunny: Not only are you omnipresent; you are also omniscient :jaw:



Or maybe you're just full of :dump:

 

[UnicronSpawn]

get comfortable with ED rotation... it is a must.. Delts/traps/pecs/glutes/ventroglutes are good with painful gear on an ED schedule... for me at least.

Did Beo talk **** about me? I know I'm always on his mind.

I think you might already know my opinion on #3.. I would run Prop 1-6 and run Cyp for 12 with a bookend of Prop at the end.

You had stated to me you don't want to get more Cyp.. so ... ****.. I still think it may be kind of a waste to only run 6 weeks. Prove me wrong Unicron.. prove me wrong. I would hate to see anyone waste anything.. wasteful people irritate me as much as dishonest people.

As for the SHBG, you may have a point with the Prop addition.. In reality I hope that the SHBG theory regarding frontloading is wrong.. Although myself have never been a firm believer in the FL approach as I never noticed a difference between that and the regular... It always took upwards of 6 weeks with Enan/Cyp.

Sincerely,
a hungry Ubi

Naw, but he did mention you though. Said you had a great sense of humor, and that he hoped to train w/ you sometime.

The main reason Im considering FL'ing or running prop w/ the 1st wk of cyp is to explode into the cycle and rebound off the end of that DNP cycle and gain like 10-15lb's of fat free mass before my body even knows what hit it. If I ran the cyp for longer the dose would have to be pitifully low. I thought of doing 1.5cc's (375mg's) cyp/wk + 50mg's prop ED (725 total/wk) for first 10wks (kind of a dumbed down sustanon effect) then switching to just prop 100mg's ED 700mg's/wk total (for wks 11-16). but it seems kind of overly complicated. I dont know.

:think:

 

[UnicronSpawn]

Yep when your glycogen stores are full you look 30% bigger i believe the number is. Also what is your diet like? I've read normal dieting rules don't apply when using DNP, like your supposed to eat MORE carbs, and when you eat them your temperature sky rockets.

I've been eating a generous ammount of carbs for that reason. Clean carbs mostly. I have also been ingesting more carbs in the form of fructose, (mostly apple juice or grapefruit juice). Since I read a few articles that preached the benefits of fructose while on DNP.
I eat the carbs so consistantly throughout the day that I dont really notice a huge spike in body temperature like the articles say. I am however keeping my apartment very cool, w/ AC and a big fan running 24/7. I knew I was supposed to have depleted glycogen, I just wasnt prepared for the psychological ramifications. Lol. Im pretty much over it now though. In a week I'll be done w/ DNP and I'll start my cycle and fill out and then some, so Im just trying to suck it up and deal w/ having S.A.D. (Small Arm Disease). Even though EVERYTHING has flattened out to a degree, I feel and mourn the loss of the arm size the most. :whiner:

 

[DR.D]

... As for the SHBG, you may have a point with the Prop addition.. In reality I hope that the SHBG theory regarding frontloading is wrong.. Although myself have never been a firm believer in the FL approach as I never noticed a difference between that and the regular... It always took upwards of 6 weeks with Enan/Cyp.

Sincerely,
a hungry Ubi

What is the SHBG theory against frontloading? Basically, SHBG is affected the same way. It usually isn't altered for weeks regardless if the test comes from a prop or cyp ester, the goal of fronting cyp is to achieve a higher blood level initially. Just the same level as would be achieved if using prop in the beginning. The effect on SHBG is more a reflection of circulating test, rather that ester idiosyncrasy.

 

[UnicronSpawn]

What is the SHBG theory against frontloading? Basically, SHBG is affected the same way. It usually isn't altered for weeks regardless if the test comes from a prop or cyp ester, the goal of fronting cyp is to achieve a higher blood level initially. Just the same level as would be achieved if using prop in the beginning. The effect on SHBG is more a reflection of circulating test, rather that ester idiosyncrasy.

Sombodys either up real early or real late. Lol.