do you think testosterone is obligatory in a cycle ?

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    do you think testosterone is obligatory in a cycle ?


    I m frightened to use testosterone because of the problem of acne and hairloss, is there another alternative for a first cycle?

    in advance thank you for your reply

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    without test your going to have some suppression.
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    There is no alternative to test. You have to decide whether or not the sides are worth what you want to accomplish. If they arent, then AAS isnt for you.
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    acne and hairloss are common side effects not just of testosterone but all steroids, as all steroids are testosterone derivatives, and whenever you interfere with your endocrine system there is going to be an element of risk, if acne is a major concern stick either a low dose, and avoid highly androgenic compounds, as for hair loss that is caused by conversion to DHT, but even just general fluxes in hormones can lead to hair loss, wanting to totally avoid both of those would really limit your choices and i'd recommend rethinking which is more important, you can't have a 100% acne and hair loss free cycle, no such thing i'm afraid
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    from http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabo...an-please.html :
    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyed
    hello everybody

    i m a newbie and after a cure there remains to me a half bottle of testosterone. I wanted to know if I could keep it for my next cure, even if it is previous for in 6 months in advance....


    thank you and sorry for my bad english
    And now you're asking if test is obligatory in a first cycle?
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    thanks for your reply...
    but maybe with another compound like primobolan or equipoise...

    so turquish is not for me but for a friend of mine who don t speak english...

    i m a little bit quite,i don t have hair !!!! lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by idunk42
    There is no alternative to test. You have to decide whether or not the sides are worth what you want to accomplish. If they arent, then AAS isnt for you.
    Agreed 110%
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    Quote Originally Posted by russy_russ
    without test your going to have some suppression.
    Some suppression without test?

    How about even WITH test you WILL BE suppressed.

    I see your reputation proceeds you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyed
    so turquish is not for me but for a friend of mine who don t speak english...

    i m a little bit quite,i don t have hair !!!! lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
    Some suppression without test?

    How about even WITH test you WILL BE suppressed.

    I see your reputation proceeds you?
    Haha, beat me to it ya bashtage!


    And I'm with you CDB:
    Recent log:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213350-lean-efx-refined.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr
    Haha, beat me to it ya bashtage!
    I already had my dose of cowbell for the day..... and I'm quick like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tha Don
    ...as all steroids are testosterone derivatives...
    Dihydrotestosterone and nandrolone are naturally occuring steroids as is testosterone. All anabolic/androgenic steroids are preparations containing one of the three natural steroids or derivatives thereof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyed
    I m frightened to use testosterone because of the problem of acne and hairloss, is there another alternative for a first cycle?

    in advance thank you for your reply
    well to answer your question no it isn't but it is one of the better options. All steriods have some sides and you will have to do your research and see if the risk are worth the gains to you. But an EQ only cycle is fine for a first cycle dispite what everyone says. Primo if you can aford it can also be used. Thats about it though if your looking for mild, there are some rarer steriods that can be used but they can be hard to find.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackeyed
    I m frightened to use testosterone because of the problem of acne and hairloss, is there another alternative for a first cycle?

    in advance thank you for your reply
    6 weeks of anavar. Very few get hair loss or acne from var, chances are you wont get either problem. You will be supressed still, but its not a bad experience and if you eat right it will greatly speed up gains. PCT is also generally a breeze. Few weeks of a SERM and very little crash. 90% of gains will easily be kept. I know some are against all oral, but everyday someone on here starts another thread about stacking halodrol and superdrol or something to that effect.
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    If you eat right you can grow off just dbol if you want to although you will never hear anybody on a message board recommend such a cycle. I would suggest a low dose test 250-500mgs for 10-12 weeks stacked with deca 400mgs or eq. I seriously doubt such a low dose of test will give you problems. Plus you will probably feel alot better with it in the cycle. Actualy just 500mgs of test by itself would be cheap and effective for a first cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by russy_russ
    without test your going to have some suppression.
    It is my understanding that test causes suppression, as well. Your body has enough test when you take it, so it stops producing it. Where are you getting your information?
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    all steroids suppress your natty test production. Test will keep mr happy working properly though. Without test he might be sad...
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    guys, he just had issues with his english, i think he understands and just wrote it improperly.
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    i dont think test is required...it sure makes for a better cycle, though. i actually like to use my ****, stay awake through the workday, and feel good during my cycle, so i always include some form of test.

    if you're worried about sides - you have to think about which ones are most crucial, and whether or not you're even susceptible to them...

    wait, why am i trying to explain all this?

    READ. DO THE RESEARCH. dont expect to be handfed this information - it's all out there for you in stickies and threads.
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    some supplements will help you to elemenate/minimize sides such as hair loss and acne
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    B5 is great for acne 3x500 mg /ed keeps me sexy and hansome ;-)
    and i used Nizoral shampoo to fight hair loss while i'm on
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    Most of the time the acne is caused by a flux in the hormone levels more so that the amount of test in the blood stream. One of my worst cases of acne was caused by a deca pack that was prescribe by my doctor for relieve from bulging disc..
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    When I was 18 I gained 25lbs on a 10 week light cycle of Deca and Proviron...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew D
    Most of the time the acne is caused by a flux in the hormone levels more so that the amount of test in the blood stream. One of my worst cases of acne was caused by a deca pack that was prescribe by my doctor for relieve from bulging disc..
    have to agree on that, that is why I always finsh my cycles on test prop to keep that from happening until I have to.
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    There´re actually some lucky MFs, that still produce their own test on orals, some even a bit more .. but that´s not the rule, it´s the exception!

    For me, it´s a must -and hgh, too, the missing link, to really make it work like it should and diminish some of the Testosterone-sides.;-)
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    There is a rambling idiot around boards somewhere, he uses some form of the alias "ROSS" anyway he advocated no test cycles... then again he also claims to have invented the turibol and anavar stack and the d-bol bridge.

    you can reach him at THEMINDOFROSS@AOL.COM he is always open and free to conversation. But I really must warn you take what he says with a grain of salt.
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    Isn't sex drive related to the androgenic component of testosterone? Shouldn't a good androgen keep you in working order. Why not take tren instead of test? Personally, I've taken all anabolic no-test cycles and still woke up every morning with wood.

    There are plenty of authors who suggest no test cycles for cutting. Including the Anabolics 2005 author and the steroidology.com guy, two name two.

    I hear a lot of people on the boards repeating over and over that you must use test in every cycle, but I have yet to see hard evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by !@#$%
    I hear a lot of people on the boards repeating over and over that you must use test in every cycle, but I have yet to see hard evidence.
    The only "hard evidence" I know of is that testosterone is crucial to some activies of the body. Test does make cycles easier to cope with though, esspically if you are prone to ED while on. I guess I got lucky, because I am like you, never had a problem with getting my guy to salute. I have also never taken any sort of progestin either. Also, androgenic doesn't necessarily mean sex drive, its more of a "mind muscle connection" idea, as many report no sex drive at all while on tren alone, and you don't get much more androgenic then tren.
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    Quote Originally Posted by !@#$%
    Isn't sex drive related to the androgenic component of testosterone? Shouldn't a good androgen keep you in working order. Why not take tren instead of test? Personally, I've taken all anabolic no-test cycles and still woke up every morning with wood.

    There are plenty of authors who suggest no test cycles for cutting. Including the Anabolics 2005 author and the steroidology.com guy, two name two.

    I hear a lot of people on the boards repeating over and over that you must use test in every cycle, but I have yet to see hard evidence.
    It isn't, never has been, and isn't likely to ever be. This is really a case of people taking generally good advice and turning it into gospel. Test is of course very often the best option and for most things the best “base” for a cycle. But it’s hardly necessary or even desirable all the time. People with joint or back problems for instance would do better to stay away from it. Deca, primo, var, and EQ would all be better options. Primo can often be used to replace test in terms of sexual side affects of deca or tren, proviron will work quite well in this regard. People with other health problems might also want to use steroids without the test sides.

    Another point here would be people using tren for cutting. Test is not required although it may be a better option for many. Proviron will work if fina **** is a problem, and primo works great if you can afford it to run with the tren. I have known several people to do this and the only one that had a problem with it had the problem before with tren and prop anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    People with joint or back problems for instance would do better to stay away from it. Deca, primo, var, and EQ would all be better options.
    um...why would those other compounds be better than test for people with back or joint problems???? EQ, for one, causes achey joints. not like winny, but still achey. i have never heard of anyone avoiding test because they have "back or joint problems"
    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    Primo can often be used to replace test in terms of sexual side affects of deca or tren,
    i have also never heard of primo having noticeable libido stimulating properties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    Proviron will work if fina d1ck is a problem,
    definitely replace your "WILL work" with "MAY work" - wouldnt want anyone to think you are making suggestions into gospel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    um...why would those other compounds be better than test for people with back or joint problems???? EQ, for one, causes achey joints. not like winny, but still achey. i have never heard of anyone avoiding test because they have "back or joint problems"
    Var increases collagen synthesis and Deca adds fluid and cushioning. I am sure skye has reasons for the other two.

    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    i have also never heard of primo having noticeable libido stimulating properties.
    Makes sense to an extent, primo is a DHT based molecule. DHT generally is supportive of libido and sexual function.

    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    definitely replace your "WILL work" with "MAY work" - wouldnt want anyone to think you are making suggestions into gospel.
    FYI, Proviron is/was PRESCRIBED for people with erectile function problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspire210
    Var increases collagen synthesis and Deca adds fluid and cushioning. I am sure skye has reasons for the other two.
    i agree about deca for joints, but back problems? i've read that about var and collagen sythesis but never experienced any joint relief, nor have i ever heard of anyone experiencing it.

    anyway, the point i guess he was making is that certain sides accompany test that certain people might want to avoid - and i have to agree...but dont think your cycle will be as pleasant without test. i am no "test is best" nazi, but there is a reason why so many people use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by aspire210
    Makes sense to an extent, primo is a DHT based molecule. DHT generally is supportive of libido and sexual function.
    no offense, but that is RETARDED.

    winny is a DHT derivative. so is anadrol. so is superdrol. none of these help libido.
    Quote Originally Posted by aspire210
    FYI, Proviron is/was PRESCRIBED for people with erectile function problems.
    that's wonderful. it still doesnt mean proviron WILL keep your **** hard during a tren or deca cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    no offense, but that is RETARDED.

    winny is a DHT derivative. so is anadrol. so is superdrol. none of these help libido.
    Superdrol gave me a libido boost. I won't try winny or anadrol. Remember, just because you respond a certain way to these compounds doesn't mean everyone does.

    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    that's wonderful. it still doesnt mean proviron WILL keep your **** hard during a tren or deca cycle.
    Ya, damn those doctors and their medical knownledge. There is no such thing as 100% when it comes to medication. 1% of people get a libido boost while on Tren. Therefore taking tren alone doesn't mean you WILL go limp either.

    If skye's advice doesn't work for you then don't follow it. He tries to share information. He isn't forcing you to stop using test, he merely offered other routes to go. You don't have to go flamming a guy for bring different opinions to the table. I could have sworn thats what these boards were here for.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspire210
    If skye's advice doesn't work for you then don't follow it. He tries to share information. He isn't forcing you to stop using test, he merely offered other routes to go. You don't have to go flamming a guy for bring different opinions to the table. I could have sworn thats what these boards were here for.....
    re-read post #30.

    i was by NO means flaming the guy - just questioning his...let's call them..."controversial" assertions. some were outright wrong, other were questionable, and the rest were stated like fact when they are merely PLAUSIBLE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    um...why would those other compounds be better than test for people with back or joint problems???? EQ, for one, causes achey joints. not like winny, but still achey. i have never heard of anyone avoiding test because they have "back or joint problems"

    i have also never heard of primo having noticeable libido stimulating properties.

    definitely replace your "WILL work" with "MAY work" - wouldnt want anyone to think you are making suggestions into gospel.
    Sense I seam to have stepped on your rather sensitive toes here I will explain myself though aspire had the basic idea

    Testosterone reduces your collagen synthesis some ware between 50 and 80% (depending on what you’re reading). Hence if you have any kind of injury that depends on collagen to heal well you should see the problem. Not only are you short on it you’re also getting bigger and stronger while hindering your collagen synthesis.

    Deca, primo, var, and EQ all increase your collagen synthesis. Animal mass had a great article on this and I will post it if I can find it. But the basic idea was to run a milder steroid that would increase your collagen synthesis for people that have old injuries or current ones for that matter that are of that nature, i.e. bad disk in your back (that would be me) knees, or other joints.

    As for deca being good for the lubrication I recently was told by someone that know a lot more then me that the effect is more due to the nandrolone acting somewhat like a corticosteroid. The full explanation was lost on me.

    Primo does have “libido boost”. In fact prolonged erections are list as a possible side affect. And your right proviron will not work for everyone, then again nether will testosterone. Some people are prone to these type of sides from steroids. That is a risk we accept when we use them.

    As for other reasons for not using test I clearly stated that
    Test is of course very often the best option and for most things the best “base” for a cycle.
    That doesn’t mean that people haven’t been doing lots of them for a long time, the old school deca/dbol, primo/tren, and all kinds of oral only cycles. This really isn’t anything new. A lot of old school beliefs are still around, almost no one believes that test e is worse then test cyp, or that you will keep less gains if you use test prop even though there are still charts out there that say that. Everyone still likes to say how bad dbol only cycles are even when half the threads in the forum are about oral only steroid cycles of newer designs.


    And thanks aspire210.
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    so why does everyone report joint pain on EQ?

    i've never heard of libido stimulation from primo, but i avoid almost all 5a-reduced steroids (MPB) so i havent done a bunch of research on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    so why does everyone report joint pain on EQ?
    Really? I never had joint pain on 800mg EQ/week. Who are these people you speak of bro? I've never heard of that.

    Winny however... ugh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by same_old
    so why does everyone report joint pain on EQ?

    i've never heard of libido stimulation from primo, but i avoid almost all 5a-reduced steroids (MPB) so i havent done a bunch of research on it.
    to be honest i've never heard of one soul report joint pain on EQ .. in fact i've heard many say it alleviates it

    i've never used eq so i can't comment personally
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous
    Really? I never had joint pain on 800mg EQ/week. Who are these people you speak of bro? I've never heard of that.

    Winny however... ugh.
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ight=joints+EQ

    that's just the first thread i came across on AR that discusses it. several guys note joint pain on EQ.

    earlier in my cycle i was on arimidex to combat the bloat and if i went too high my knees would ACHE. i dropped the dex and was fine for awhile, but now into the meat of the EQ (weeks 9+), my knees ache just as bad again.

    it seems very individual, but then again there are guys who get no joint pain from winny.

    glen if i didnt know better i'd say you were antagonizing me. lately when i throw an experience out, you come behind me and contradict me....even when you have ZERO experience with the topic and havent even looked at the evidence at hand. you can dislike me all you want bro, but let's try and keep things informative and (reasonably) positive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by !@#$%
    Isn't sex drive related to the androgenic component of testosterone? Shouldn't a good androgen keep you in working order. Why not take tren instead of test? Personally, I've taken all anabolic no-test cycles and still woke up every morning with wood.
    not that anybody will care, but in the complete absence of DHT (the androgenic component of testosterone, for all intents and purposes), the libido is still fully functional. the body, apparently, makes your **** hard from DHT most of the time, but if you dont have any, testosterone itself will handle the job.

    i can back this up, too - i'm on test and dutasteride (94% reduction in DHT) and i still get crazy wood and want to screw everything.

    and no, tren will NOT keep you in "good working order", sexually or otherwise.

    as for the thread starter - try tbol solo. you'll probably get 10-15lbs w/ very few sides if you have little or no anabolic experience...and the risk for hairloss and acne is very small as tbol is almost purely anabolic (again, i can attest to this)
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