"blitz cycle" dbol+tren?

[aspire210]

I was reading about short cycles on another board and came accorded this idea. Seems to make some sense, most powerful AR mediated steroid and (arguably) most powerful non-AR mediated steroid. Anyone ever run this before for ~4 weeks? I was thinking of trying this with trans-tren and dbol. Something like:
30mg Dbol
30mg (absorbed) Tren daily (Equal to 60mg tren-ace EOD)
More than likely 10mg of nolva as well.

Any suggestions, other than the "ADD TEST", would be appreciated.Currently 5'6-5'7 ~180 13.5%bf, hoping to be 175@12% before starting. Bench 285, Squat 375, Deadlift 425. Hoping for strength, 10lbs of weight and only a small increase in bodyfat. This will be a mild/lean bulker. Please no "add test" that is not what this thread is about.

 

[Matthew D]

you can do it but you won't like the hit to your sex life

 

[jonny21]

Expect complete shutdown.

Is 30mg dbol an amount you have used in the past? If not, then start lower. Also expect some pretty intense lower back pumps with anything over 15mg day. I'm about your size and that was the # for me.

Trens Base? If so, will probably need at least 200mg/day to yield ~70mg.

A'dex instead of Nolva during.

Test TD works very well. Sorry, I had to say it. It's true though

 

[aspire210]

Expect complete shutdown.

Is 30mg dbol an amount you have used in the past? If not, then start lower. Also expect some pretty intense lower back pumps with anything over 15mg day. I'm about your size and that was the # for me.

Trens Base? If so, will probably need at least 200mg/day to yield ~70mg.

A'dex instead of Nolva during.

Test TD works very well. Sorry, I had to say it. It's true though

Tren-Ace, long story, not wanting to source anything via "illegal means" and I live in farm land, so....

Used 30mg DBOL before, liked it. You're just a pansy . (BTW thanks for answering all the PMs)

Why A'dex? I was looking to prevent gyno more than anything. Enlighten me, as I know you have done more research than I, esspically after reading your log.

 

[jonny21]

Why A'dex? I was looking to prevent gyno more than anything. Enlighten me, as I know you have done more research than I, esspically after reading your log.

To help with possible bloat with dbol. Nolvadex may work well on existing gyno but it is not an anti-estrogen. You are better off with a low dose of A'dex which is an anti-estrogen.

Posted by JGUNS on CEM
Look at this study done on boys with GH deficiency with anastrozole. There was no use of exogenous test in this study and lipid profiles remained unchanged:

J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Dec;17(12):1597-606. Related Articles, Links

An open label 12-month pilot trial on the effects of the aromatase inhibitor anastrozole in growth hormone (GH)-treated GH deficient adolescent boys.

Mauras N, Welch S, Rini A, Klein KO.

Nemours Children's Clinics in Jacksonville, FL, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: To investigate whether 12 mo treatment with the aromatase inhibitor anastrozole can achieve sustained suppression of estrogen production and delay epiphyseal fusion in growth hormone deficient (GHD) adolescent males. STUDY DESIGN: 20 adolescents with GHD were recruited (mean age +/- SE: 14.7 +/- 0.5 yr). Ten continued on GH (control group), and 10 on GH and anastrozole (Rx group) for 12 mo. RESULTS: After 12 mo E2 concentrations declined 60% in the Rx group (from 1.8 +/- 0.5 to 0.7 +/- 0.3 pg/ml, p <0.05) whereas they increased in controls (from 1.2 +/- 0.7 to 1.8 +/- 0.7, p <0.05). Testosterone increased 117% in the Rx group (from 304 +/- 31 to 626 +/- 64 ng/dl), 47% in controls (from 274 +/- 89 to 398 +/- 51) (p = 0.03, ANOVA between groups). IGF-I increased 42% in controls (454 +/- 22 to 711 +/- 109 ng/ml, p <0.05), but remained invariant in the Rx group (446 +/- 29 to 540 +/- 80, p = NS). Bone markers, plasma lipids, insulin, glucose, and liver function tests were all unchanged between groups with no differences either in body composition or bone mineral density accrual. There were no differences in growth velocity, height SDS, bone age advancement, predicted adult height or testicular volumes between groups after 12 mo. CONCLUSIONS: Anastrozole treatment potently decreases estrogen concentrations in adolescent males with GHD while allowing normal virilization, without deleterious effects on body composition, plasma lipids, bone metabolism or the tempo of puberty. Twelve months of treatment, however, did not increase predicted adult height. Further studies are needed to ascertain whether more prolonged estrogen blockade is helpful in the treatment of growth retardation in puberty.

 

[aspire210]

To help with possible bloat with dbol. Nolvadex may work well on existing gyno but it is not an anti-estrogen. You are better off with a low dose of A'dex which is an anti-estrogen.

How about 25mg ATD? I know its not as studied, but I have a ton of it laying around and I am trying to stay away from ordering anything again. I know a'dex isn't controlled, but I don't want my name coming up with research chems AND farm hormones.

 

[oswizzle]

I did the same cycle your going to do and the shutdown wasnt friendly by any means maaaan

 

[aspire210]

I did the same cycle your going to do and the shutdown wasnt friendly by any means maaaan

Really, how were the gains? did you actually hold anything post-pct? did you feel it was worth it? would you do it again?

 

[oswizzle]

I gained like 15lbs kept 12lbs after it was all done and overwith....I dunno man the Shutdown was hectic...I had everything on point...The only thing I didnt do was HCG...Other then that the strength gains were off the hook!!!

 

[B5150]

I'm have come to believe that the Tren (progestin) shutdown can be something pretty nasty. Between that and the possible/probable insomnia it can be psychotic. A good OTC sleep remedy as well as T**T would be recommended if you want to stay sane. JMO.

 

[glenihan]

why wouldn't you include test base? i just don't get it .. its SOOOO cheap and will make the cycle not only better but a million times more enjoyable

 

[UberPooper1]

I'm considering a cycle very similar to this, except I was going to be using Phera Plex instead of the Dbol. I've tried both and believe it or not 30mg of PP yielded MUCH better results than 40mg of Dbol.

I think the cycle sounds good except for the amount of Tren transdermal. Like said before me, you will need somewhere around 150mg ED of the transdermal, maybe a little more. Shutdown will be bad but as to the comment about the sex drive, I don't know. Dbol made me pretty horny. For PCT I would recommend Torimifene and like you mentioned, run 25mg of an ATD ED such as R-XT throughout the cycle.

As to the comments of the test, on a four weeker I don't see the need for it. Not to metion his gains will be even more wet with another aromatizing compound.

 

[glenihan]

in a 4 week cycle with test BASE the results will be almost instanteous

what do you mean you don't see the need for it? this isn't HCG .. its arguably the best steriod around

 

[Skye]

I ran this once for 6 weeks. loved it. but bear in mind that tren + dbol = massive and sometimes painful pumps. the dbol can take place of the test really, worked fine for me but tren never bothered me in that way. Do run an AI and nolvadex while you do this as if your prone to gyno this can do it for you.

BTW, to help with shutdown, even with 6 weeks 250iu twice to 7 time a weeks will do wonders. cheers

 

[jonny21]

in a 4 week cycle with test BASE the results will be almost instanteous

I agree.


I have no experience with injectable Test. I do however have some recent experience with TD Test. I was taking TD Test and proviron. No bloat and the effect was almost immediate, just had to find the right dose.

 

[buckwhite]

hello guys, its been a while since ive been around and it will take a while for some things to come back to me so here goes. i would avoid the nolva unless you have had problems with gyno in the past. it will also do nothing for the use of tren. if i remember correctly the gyno experienced from tren use is the increase in progesterone, hence being called progesterone induced gyno... this short of a cycle, the chances of side effects are minimum. you dont have to take this to heart but it is just a quote of mine, the cornerstone of EVERY cycle is TEST... man its great to be back... L8ter

 

[glenihan]

buck that's incorrect about tren and nolva .. gyno cannot form without estrogen .. so nolva would actually help prevent gyno .. although an AI would be a better choice until gyno symptoms actually began

 

[buckwhite]

i stick by my original post, heres why. trenbolone does not aromatize into estrogen in the body, therefore the nolva will do nothing to combat the effects of the tren. however it will do something for the d-bol use. as for the comment about gyno not forming without estrogen is arguable. i respect your opinion as you have much deserved respect here. im just still in the process of getting all the rust off... L8ter

 

[glenihan]

no offense but its not arguable ... there have been many studies posted regarding it .. estrogen must be present in order for gyno to form

 

[jmh80]

Yeah, Bobo even chimed in that the anti-prolactin chems (like cabergoline - dostinex) weren't really useful.
He posted a study of Nolva's use that Glen mentioned.

 

[size]

Have you read the thread about short cycles?

Anyway, I do not like this cycle. For one, why use the arimidex if using the dbol? I assume you want to eliminate the water retention, but that is one of the benefits of using dbol.

 

[size]

Yeah, Bobo even chimed in that the anti-prolactin chems (like cabergoline - dostinex) weren't really useful.
He posted a study of Nolva's use that Glen mentioned.

Nolva works for prolactin. But it does not even matter that much in my opinion. To me, gyno is ultimately an estrogen problem, so if you control estrogen then you will control gyno.

Tamoxifen inhibits prolactin signal transduction in ER - NOG-8 mammary epithelial cells.
Das R, Vonderhaar BK.
Laboratory of Tumor Immunology and Biology, National Cancer Institute

Tamoxifen (TAM), an antiestrogen, also acts as an antilactogen in mammary cells. In the present study we analyze the effect of TAM on the signal transduction pathway for prolactin (Prl). TAM bound specifically to NOG-8, an estrogen receptor-negative mammary cell line. Within 5 min of Prl treatment, raf-1, MEK and MAP kinase were induced 2-3-fold over the control level. TAM completely inhibited this Prl-induced activation of kinases as well as Prl binding and cell growth. These results indicate the potential role of TAM as an antilactogen in Prl responsive systems.