Has anyone here ever considered steroids/phs as "cheating" ?
- 04-11-2003, 05:17 PM
Has anyone here ever considered steroids/phs as "cheating" ?
I'm not bashing or preaching. I'm actually pretty neutral, just a little curious on the mindset of everyone here.
I guess you can't really cheat if you are only competing against yourself, but has anyone here ever considered steroids/phs as an easy way out?
If so, what changed your mind?
- 04-11-2003, 05:27 PM
Great question==but i guess it depends on your mind set--I dont think of lifting/bbuilding as a competition. I think its a good way to make myself look/feel better and for the most part increase my levels of health. Ive only done ph's so i cant comment about AS users but i would assume its the same thing, and i would feel the same if i ever did AS--do you think it is cheating?
- 04-11-2003, 07:34 PM
*sighs*I am so sick of this arguement. I would love to have all the juice bashers TRY a cycle just ONCE. It really is this simple:
1. If I do not eat correctly, I will do nothing but waste my gear.
2. If I do not train correctly, I will waste my gear
3. If I do not do post cycle recovery correctly, I will LOSE my gains. (and have wasted my gear)
Most people when "on" are 100% more focused on their diet and their training. It is just how it has to be to have them work successfully.
I have said it before, juice is like nitrous for a car. If the car is running well, and is at peak performance, nitrous will give it a solid "kick in the ass" If the car isnt in good condition..all you will do is blow a piston.
04-11-2003, 07:52 PM
theres an older guy that goes to my gym, and hes doing a deca only cycle at 300mg a week. He had confided in me that he's " disappointed" in steroids, and that they dont live up to their hype. He also stated that he doesn't want to eat too much either, because hes scared of getting his tummy back... so yeah, he falls under all of Wardog's criteria for the most part.
04-11-2003, 07:57 PM
Deca 300/week..ad no test? I bet ya post cycle he loses more than he started the cycle with due to HTPA shutdown. Friggin idiot..lol!
04-11-2003, 08:17 PM
04-11-2003, 09:32 PM
Is it cheating when I eat more protein than someone else, and grow more? Is it cheating, when I figure out or learn a new technique or training system that my body responds to much faster than someone else? Gear/PH's are an advantage like anything else you do to improve yourself. Cheating is surgery and synthol. No work or thought involved.
04-11-2003, 11:43 PM
Good answer Wardog; steroids/ph give you another element of motivation to eat and train correctly.
Also what's synthol?
04-12-2003, 02:20 AM
imo you really only get into "cheating" when you are engaging in some sort of competition where they are banned...i.e like a football player juicing in order to perform better than his competitors.
but then is it only "cheating" if you get caught?
when it comes to 99.99% of us who are not pro athletes, who train to look/feel better as was previously stated, in order to reach higher goals..then i feel it is not cheating.
04-12-2003, 06:26 AM
It is cheating if you're 130-150 and using 10 weeks of anadrol to get started on your first year of lifting. (Know ppl who did this). It is not cheating if you do the cycle right after forcing your body to go through every variation of dieting and excercising that it cannot possibly retain any more muscle tissue. Of course, it gets exponentially harder, so I'd say 75% potential is "deserving" enough of a cycle (juice), and not cheating.
04-12-2003, 07:01 AM
"Use steroids or go home. Enough of crying and whining."
Ban Athletes Who Don't Use Steroids
by Sidney Gendin, Ph.D.
Isn't it time for the brainwashed public to know the truth about steroids? In their ideological zeal to ban "performance enhancing" drugs, national governments and the various local and international sports federations have ignorantly and self-righteously declared that steroid use is cheating, dangerous, and stupid. In fact, in general, it is neither dangerous nor stupid and it is cheating only because it has been capriciously commanded to be so.
In the first place, with respect to the alleged danger, people ought to know that there are dozens of steroids and it would be absurd to imagine that their risks are identical. Moreover, steroids come in two broad classes - the orals and the injectables. It is true that most of the orals have associated hazards but not a single one of them is as hazardous as smoking or drinking. The principle dangers of the injectables result from overdosing and, even so, they are mainly such alarming matters as acne and severe headache. Every legally obtainable prescription drug comes with a warning of dozens of worse side effects.
But what is that to you and me? Why should we legislate what risks people should run unless they can interfere with the rest of us? In our democratic, capitalist society many persons risk their last few dollars to start up businesses which will probably fail. We do not stop them. If and when they become multimillionaires we congratulate them. We don't permit people to drive without seatbelts because their accidents drive up insurance rates for the rest of us but we let people engage in the far riskier business of climbing mountains since the danger is mainly self-regarding. So enough virtue-parading preaching.
As for the so-called cheating, who really are the cheaters? The average steroid user spends about $100-150 per month while the supplement industries grow rich on suckering in the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of foolish people spending up to $1000 per month on a variety of mumbo jumbo: androstenedione, 4-androstenedione, 19-androstenedione, androstenediol and the several 4, 5, 17, and 19 varieties of androstenediol, tribulus terrestris, enzymatic conversion accelerators, growth hormone stimulators, hormone-releasing peptides, testosterone "boosters", dozens of magical herbs and a ridiculous number of "non drugs" with unpronouncable names so they are always abbreviated such as HMB and DHEA. On top of all this, these folks who tend to be more affluent than steroid users, are pumping protein powders into their milk - $9 per day - and gobbling down protein candy bars - up to $3 each - while saving a bit of energy for screaming "Foul! Cheater!" at the poor steroid user. They are told by the manufacturers and distributors of these outlandish products that they look like steroids, feel like steroids and work like steroids. So? Why not ban them like steroids?
But I say ban them and only them. For one thing, they don't work as well as steroids. More importantly, what care I as a fan that someone sets a remarkable record because he used steroids? I pay money to see sporting events and I am entitled to an athlete's very best. Isaac Stern can afford a violin that few violinists and no high school orchestra player can afford. Is he taking unfair advantage of them? If I pay $60 to hear Stern and learn his tone was not up to par because he was too lazy to bring his own violin and borrowed a $50 one from a high school kid, I justifiably want my money back. What care I that he usually plays upon a $200,000 instrument? I am not bothered by this; I want his very best. Likewise, I want the very best an athlete can give me. I don't want to watch athletes who could have done better if only they had used steroids. Talk of steroid performance as unnatural is as ridiculous as complaining about artificial hearts. As for me I plan to have a T-shirt made for me that will read on its front: "Use steroids or go home. Enough of crying and whining."
04-12-2003, 07:16 AM
Well in a way it is. I using for a different reason, I had back surgery a while back and am looking at AAS as a way of helping gaining back some of what I lost. I could do this naturally (my doctor about had a hart attack when he found out I was bench pressing again) but it could take years (was down for a long time) By doing (carefully) a couple of cycles I could be back in a year . I am already back to lifting and swimming 5-6 days a week and plan to do more. (After I get my strength back it will be time to diet.) Am I cheating? Yes. I just don’t care. It is only time that I am cheating.
04-12-2003, 01:54 PM
if an athletic association bans steroids, then it is cheating to use no matter what apparently logical arguement you come up with. 'everyone else does it' is a copout and makes everyone cheaters. however if there is no ban or you are not part of any organization, then it is a personal decision for which you take all responsibilities. if you read enough posts on sites like these you will see that there are alot of responsible users who understand how to use them. just look at wardog's post above. you will also see stuff like 'i'm 5'9", 130 lbs, thinking of doing whatever cycle', then a month later, the person is asking questions about diet, routines, recovery and posting stuff like 'i gained 10 lbs in 8 weeks.' quite obviously such a person is not ready mentally or physically to use. at that size almost anyone can gain 10 lbs with a little thinking without use of juice.
synthol, you don't want any part of that. basically it is a MCT oil you inject into lagging areas or anything you want to be bigger. the oil sticks to the muscle somehow and presto instant size. as you can guess this is not even close to safe.
as for the article posted, i sorry, but this is as flawed as rush limbaugh's circular arguements (i'm pretty right wing on economic issues, don't care about social issues since society controls this more than government). if i'm competing, i want to win bad. i will always try, even if i know the other guy is juicing (for the record i do not). i want to be the best even if the competition has an advantage. i also expect organizations who claim to be drug free to enforce properly. yes alot of olympic athletes use steroids, but alot don't and seem to deal just fine. i guess i'm just an idealist, call me a fool, but i think that the olympic ideal is embodied in the competition, not the chemical games that are played behind the scenes.
skye, are you doing a proper rehab (not that dinky crap normal people do, but an athletic one)? have you gone and tried to find your weak areas and work on them? with a well thought out routine you could be back to your old condition within less than a year without juice and then use it to further enhance performance.
if one uses steroids as a quick fix, you are usually ignoring the real issues. if however, you are using steroids as a means to an end, then usually most other issues have been dealt with and the person is more likely to be responsible about it. although this is not always the case either. basically do all you can without it and be honest to yourself. ask yourself have i trained and ate and rested properly? if not, you won't be able to get the proper gains from juice either since your habits are not optimal. all to often we are our own worst enemy.
and for those athletes that get caught:
SHUT THE **** UP YOU PANSY AND TAKE IT LIKE A MAN. you knew damn well what you were getting into and if you didn't it your own fault. you are the reason why steroids are illegal. you need someone to hold your hand and tell you what you can and can't do. the laws are made for the safety of people like this, not the responsible users who are few.
protein is a FOOD. whey comes from milk
i'm done ranting for now
04-13-2003, 07:00 AM
I am doing way more rehab than the doctor wanted. And I worked for it too. My first set of pushups was 5 on my knees. I am now benching my own weight. The doctor was hoping that I would just be walking a mile or two a day by the end of the year. But you have a point about the lousy rehab the doctors’ use. I still don’t see how rolling the ball on your belly helps. Swimming and pushups did the trick and I am going up J
All the same I see all points here. If you are using steroid to gain an advantage that has been disallowed then it is most definitely cheating. However most informed people have realized that steroids are a major part of sports today. As a society we like what they do. (If you doubt this then go turn on “professional wrestling”, or look at the covers of the muscle mags. It should remove all doubt.) And no matter what the women’s mags say that type of body attracts attention. The fact that we condone it with one had and condemn it with the other can only show us to be hypocrites.
As for my waiting to naturally recover that will take years. I am no longer in my twenties. I am not willing to spend the next 3 years trying to gain what I could have in one. For that matter if I lived in Europe or could afford a private doctor (you know the kind) here I would easily have a prescription for this type of treatment. Only in the US is it not generally available.
04-14-2003, 03:22 PM
Hell no it ain't cheating. They are just used to help people take their physiques or game to the next level. Some may see it as cheating because it's illegal, or because they are jealous of bodybuilders so they cry foul.
Some idiots ruin the reputation of steroids by blaming their nervous breakdown, or broken marriage on steroids. This leads to public to believe that ANYONE who uses steroids is just as bad of a drug addict as those who spend their paychecks on crack. This ofcourse is far from the truth.
04-15-2003, 02:03 PM
Using steroids is not cheating by any means. To say it is cheating would imply that only a few use them and hence have an unfair advantage, when inreality nothing could be further from the truth since the vast majority are using so it is essential to use them just to level the playing feild.
I'm only cheating if I put my dick in a woman other then my wife
04-15-2003, 02:11 PM
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