4AD and 19NOR stack

smokey the bear

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Yesterday was my first day of this andro stack. dosing looks like this:
-week 1-4; 4AD=250mg upon waking, then 250mg 1 hour prior to workout. applied topically.
-week 1-4; 19Norandro=200mg upon waking, and 200 1 hour prior to workout. applied orally
-week 3-4, or as needed; formestane(hydroxyandrostenedione)=250mg prior to sleep.

yesterday was my first day on cycle and my strength day for legs, it was spectacular! I finished squats @405lbsx10. deadlifts@450lbsx5. extensions@280lbs+my 200lbs friend standing on the stack for 10 reps plus thirty second held contraction.. . . . .

one problem though, i had a lingering headache all day. not a life stoper, but very annoying.

today i am doing the same stack at the same doses noted above, i want to increase the dose of 19NOR from 400mg daily, to 600mg daily. but im not going to do that until i make sure these head aches arnt going to be an everyday thing.
 
bioman

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Headaches have never happened to me, I have run that stack 3 times in the past...it's a favorite of mine.

Good luck, enjoy the good mood that 19 nor brings.
 
B5150

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As bioman said a 4AD/Nor stack is very nice and relatively side free.

Thing is 4AD@500mg/ed TD is a good low/mod dose. But Nor@400mg/ed orally is likely doing very little as it has very low oral availability.

Not to dispute your response but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that placebo effect is tremendous in your case. If anything you are responding to the 4AD, and at that it usually takes a good week or more for 4AD in the TD and Nor, even in a TD, is quite a bit longer too.
 
Apowerz6

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Is that a Dione or diol? Man I miss my nor diol, I had the chance to run 19 nor cyclo intranasal preworkout !!! :woohoo: I was a beast in the gym, My tri's still are huge from the three times a week i was training them..Newbie gains and stupidity of a 19 year old using something he knew very little about...

As for the Headaches...t might be the 4ad as for some it can effect the Bp...
In addition As B stated 400 mgs is low dose as AST used to make 19 nor at 250mgs a pill I dosed that at 750 mgs a day at least
 

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I also miss this cycle. I loved it and never had any side effects. What is the closest thing out now to 19nor, if anything?
 
smokey the bear

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so the headaches turned out to be a fluke. second day now and i feel great. im officially upping the dose of 19norandrostenedione to 600mg daily taken with DHB. im gonna keep the trans 4ad were its at (500mg daily)for now.

Do you guys think adding any of these products to the stack would be a good idea?
-methoxyTRN
-x mass, max lmg
-pherplex
-ergomax
-m dien
i have a good quantity of all these on hand. i only have about 1 weeks worth of m-dien though... thanks for all the replys...
 
smokey the bear

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core was today, ahh you gotta love it. abs are like the least gratifying muscles to work, but ya gotta do them. i do believe the good lifts i had yesterday were obviously a placebo effect, but thats fine with me, i need to push myself to the limit on all my max effort days and a placebo(mind over matter) effect is fine by me, i just hope that the actual results turn up as quickly as possible from this stack. Tomorrow the 19nor is upped to Mg and its my max effort chest and tri day.
lets see if i can get 345lbs five times on barbell bench.:head:
 
smokey the bear

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This is the best first days of any cycle Ive ever taken. max effort chest and tris today. i finished off my exercises something like this:

Barbell bench- 315 for 5
Dumbbell bench- 125's for 8
Hammer decline- 410 for 6
Peck deck(chest fly machine)-240 for 6
Weighted dip machine- 330+ (my 200lbs friend phill) for 12
Triceps kickbacks-drop set starting at 40lbs dumbbell down to 30.

Felt good all day long. first day at 600mg 19nordione, broken into 3 doses throughout the day.

i chose not to use liver support for this cycle. i figure that since no methyls are being used, and the doses are not astronomical then i should be fine. if someone thinks otherwise, give me a holla. daily supps other than the pro-hormones are:
-flax seed oil 2 daily
-DHB @300mg with all doses of 19nor
-opti-men multi, 2 daily
-weight gainer, full serving in morning. half before and after workout.
-cissus, 2 caps pre-workout
-vit-c @1000mg post workout

I'm still up for suggestions on adding in one of the previously mentioned products in the stack, better speak up before its to late guys. until next time...:woohoo:
 
wastedwhiteboy2

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the only thing I would add is a dht derivative if possible. cycle looks good keep us updated.
 
smokey the bear

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the only thing I would add is a dht derivative if possible. cycle looks good keep us updated.
damn, i know your right. i was gonna jump on the great deal island had going on with the ZOL. missed it, you know of any other good inexpensive Winny wanna-be products?
 
smokey the bear

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Today was my repetition back and biceps day. it went well, nothing extraordinary. felt solid through all my lifts. i have noticed a definite increase in my metabolism. I'm hungry all the time and my digestion has sped up.. if ya know what i mean.. i need to increase my calories dramatically to get the gains i am hoping for.right now i am consuming about 3500cals per day. i need to be at about 4500cals or so to make for clean gains. i just brought a box of protein bars to work, so that should help bridge between meals..

it is now my fourth day on this stack now. here are my non-flexed, pre-workout measurements as of three days ago:

-53" shoulders
-45" chest
-14" biceps
-35 1/2" waist
-26" upper thigh(2" from pubis)
-18" lower thigh(2" from top of knee cap)
-15 1/2" calves

-weight=204 lbs
-height=6'1"
-bf=14-16% (b.s. method)

on my off day from the gym this weekend i will take a urine and BP test and post it. i plan on getting blood work done after pct to make sure my body is ready for the next cycle.

my pct for this stack will consist of this:
-formestane @250mg last week of stack
-week1pct-clomid@200mg -6oxo@200mg -AX retain@4caps
-week2pct-clomid@100mg -6oxo@400mg -AX retain@4caps
-week3pct-nolva@30mg -6oxo@500mg -AX retain@3caps [email protected] -avena sativa@2g [email protected]
-week4-5pct-same as week 3, plus ZMA

i know this isn't a pct thread, but feel free to critique. i have considered taking both nolva and clomid at the same time throughout pct, but they do very similar things so i just kept the 6oxo(androstenetrione) as the constant instead..
after week five of pct i will be going one week loading up on liver pro and various oils to prep for my next stack of pheraMAX, X-mass by GL...

two days off now, next is shoulders on Sunday. i will then post my updated body weight est... :run:
 
wastedwhiteboy2

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not sure. I quit buying winny types because I have enough and my hair is already mad at me.:)
 
bioman

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Just wait until about week 4..the fun really kicks in then.
 
smokey the bear

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Thanks for the info apowerz. just ordered some ZOL.. So my original 4 week cycle was of 4AD@500 ED, and 19NOR@400 ED, has changed. as i am now at 600mg 19NOR. so my supply will only last three weeks... instead of cutting the cycle 1 week short and finishing with only 4AD, i have decided that the following 6 week cycle is going to be applied:

-week1-3: 4AD@500mg ED trans dermal, 19NOR@600mg ED oral.
-week4-6: 4AD@500mg ED trans dermal, ZOL@200mg ED oral.

-followed by the previously mentioned pct.

*OK, so once a week i will be checking my BP, doing a UA, and checking my blood glucose for the hell of it.

Before i give you those results i have to note that in first week my body weight has went from 204 lbs too 208 lbs, not bad at all..Plus i feel great, not crazy aggressive or lethargic at all.

The following test were done directly following my workout, before any food was consumed..
*BP=130/75. these are actually good numbers for me, I'm usually in this range naturally.
*Glucose=90. the normal range for blood glucose is 80-140, with mine at 90 after a workout that tells me that I'm in a potentially anabolic state.
*U/A=horribly dehydrated, traces of billyruben and protein. well before everyone tells me my liver is failing, dehydration leads to excess stress on the liver hence the billyruben.. i figure the protein is from the breakdown and release of protein into the bloodstream from the workout prior to the U/A test.

So, what do you guys think of the changes to my cycle?
I am obviously increasing my water intake starting now, and I'm contemplating on maybe beginning some liver pro's soon..

Peace out,
Smokey:run:
 
smokey the bear

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oh ya, i had my old trainer do a pinch test for my bf%, it turns out that I'm actually at 11% BF, not 15%..just clarifying.
 
dwass

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I really enjoyed that combination.

Honestly, the best part about it was that one of the two (I trust the 19-nor from what bioman said) made me the happiest guy on the block.

Nearing the end of my pct, I'm still up around 12lbs.

Back pumps were sort of an issue for me though.
 
smokey the bear

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dwass, did you post any sort of log on your stack? what sort of dosages were you taking?

- Anyways, today was repetition leg day, F*CK yes!!!
summary:
-leg press= 1020 lbs for 28 reps!!!
-straight leg deads..
-weighted step-ups..
-extension(drop set)starting weight 420 lbs for 14 reps
-ham curls(drop set)starting weight 280 lbs for 16 reps

ohh and today was my birthday.. feeling great.. i have noticed an improvement in overall physique, (maybe not after all the cheesecake i ate today). I'm looking forward to the following few weeks for sure. i have never taken any of the newly released dht derivatives, tried older 5aa's(cut me up), and I'm looking forward to what the future holds.
 
smokey the bear

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today was my core workout. went pretty much as usual.. nothing new to report..
 
smokey the bear

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Today was my repetition chest and tri day. I was really pumped from the very beginning of my workout, the vascularity of my forearms seems to be improving. i think that some of the extra test is definitely aromatizing as i noticed that my triceps seemed a bit rounded like they're retaining some water. if i notice bloat in my face or any hindrance of gyno i will be all over it. but until then, I'm gonna keep the AI and SERMS at bay.. OH, and in a delirious morning grog i accidentally spilled like 20ml of my 4AD transdermal, luckily most of it spilled on me :D so i figure that i probably used about 1000mg or so of 4AD today..i do have reserves of 4AD so I'm not to worried about my supply, but it kind of makes sense why i was bloated after 1000ish mg of 4AD..

My training summary:
-barbell incline, 4 sets, finished with 225x15
-dumbbell flat, 3 sets, finished with 90'sx15
-dumbbell decline, 3 sets, finished with 90'sx12
-cable chest flys, 3 sets, finished with 80'sx14
-weighted dip machine, drop set, starting with 555x15
-triceps pull downs, drop set, starting with 200x20

good day all in all, i began my workout with a passive 5 minute warm up in the sauna. and some rotator cuff exercises.

i have now got my calories consistently around 4500. I'm keeping it going boys, still got a month left.. i think i may begin to post less, just updating on any important changes and achievements....peace guys....:run:
 
smokey the bear

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Back and biceps strength day with finishing weights noted:
-pull ups+ 45lbs, 4 sets of 8
-dumbbell rows, 3 sets, 130lbs x 8
-hammer high row, 3 sets, 450lbs x 5 (personal best)
-wide grip cable rows, 3 sets, 260lbs x 5(personal best)
-dumbbell alternating curls, 75's x 6
-machine curls (negatives), 180 w/10sec hold

As i stated before my pumps and vascularity are as good if not better than they've ever been(kinda unexpected with these PH's). my lifts are slowly and steadily increasing, nothing crazy, but good. I'm not sure of my weight and I'm not planning on weighing myself until this weekend when i will updating the log...one thing to note tho, i was rather lethargic all day today, just out of gas and tired, mostly mentally, seeing as my workout went really well.
Peace,
Smokey
-
 
Old Guy

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Back and biceps strength day with finishing weights noted:
-pull ups+ 45lbs, 4 sets of 8
-dumbbell rows, 3 sets, 130lbs x 8
-hammer high row, 3 sets, 450lbs x 5 (personal best)
-wide grip cable rows, 3 sets, 260lbs x 5(personal best)
-dumbbell alternating curls, 75's x 6
-machine curls (negatives), 180 w/10sec hold

As i stated before my pumps and vascularity are as good if not better than they've ever been(kinda unexpected with these PH's). my lifts are slowly and steadily increasing, nothing crazy, but good. I'm not sure of my weight and I'm not planning on weighing myself until this weekend when i will updating the log...one thing to note tho, i was rather lethargic all day today, just out of gas and tired, mostly mentally, seeing as my workout went really well.
Peace,
Smokey
-
This can happen "on" or "off" from time to time. Shouldn't be a problem unless it becomes an everyday thing.
 

same_old

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smokey - glad it's going well. just like test and deca, only faster! keep us posted.
 
dwass

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dwass, did you post any sort of log on your stack? what sort of dosages were you taking?

- Anyways, today was repetition leg day, F*CK yes!!!
summary:
-leg press= 1020 lbs for 28 reps!!!
-straight leg deads..
-weighted step-ups..
-extension(drop set)starting weight 420 lbs for 14 reps
-ham curls(drop set)starting weight 280 lbs for 16 reps

ohh and today was my birthday.. feeling great.. i have noticed an improvement in overall physique, (maybe not after all the cheesecake i ate today). I'm looking forward to the following few weeks for sure. i have never taken any of the newly released dht derivatives, tried older 5aa's(cut me up), and I'm looking forward to what the future holds.
Smokey, sorry I didn't respond to this earlier. I kind of forgot about it until now.

Anyway, I didn't post a log on here. As for dosages, the pills I had contained 100mg of each compound per serving (2 caps) and I started at 6 caps/day, working up to 9/day. (They also contained 500mg of trib, 150mg of DHEA, 200mg of chrysine, 200mg of saw palmetto, and 8mg of zing gluconate.) I only ran this for four weeks, and while I know I could've (should've) ran it for longer, I'm pretty new to the use of AAS/PH. During my 4-week cycle, I went from about 167lbs (and ~9.5-10%bf) to ~185lbs while putting on just a marginal amount of fat. Here, in my last week of PCT, I'm sitting comfortably at 183lbs as of this morning on a completely empty stomach and I'm very happy with how everything's gone.

My fullness was just sick while I was on. I'd go to class wearing a t-shirt and a North Face fleece jacket and people would comment on seeing my REAR delts, traps, and the logs in my back through that thick-ass jacket. It was a great feeling. What's even better is that I've kept probably 90% of the size I had and my vascularity is up there, too.

I felt lethargic from time to time while on, but nothing that kept me from leaving my couch.

Oh, and by the way... I'm deeply jealous of your 1020x28 leg press. WTF.

I wish I could do that. My signature masochistic leg press exercise is doing 20-rep drop sets starting with 4 plates on each side and going down to 1.
 
smokey the bear

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Here are the weekly health check results, done the same every week, post workout before nourishment.
-BP, actually went down from 130/76 last week, to 122/64 this week.strange because off cycle I'm usually around 130/70-Glucose, same as last week(90).. good..
-U/A, the specific gravity(indicates hydration) was better this week than last, while still not good. still traces of billyruben and protein tho. as noted last week, I'm not worried about the protein as the test is post workout.. the billyruben(indicates liver stress) is elevated from normal, yet is only on the 1st of 4 levels of (stress)indicated on the U/A stick.
-My morning weight is now at 211 lbs, up 7 pounds from 204 at the start. this is basically 1 pound every two days which in my book equates to solid sustainable muscle. gained 1 less pound this week than the first, i credit that to initial water retention from aromatized test and norandro.
-Bloat is low if any, not visibly noticeable at all.
-It may sound strange to you guys, but after my last cycle of SD the shrinkage was scary. so i actually measured my wavos' before this cycle to see any changes, and thus far there has been none. this does not mean they are not shutting down, but their definitely not totally asleep.
-My sex drive is about at its normal level, it was slightly elevated the first week but it has been totally good and normal this week.
-i have been a little extra aggressive out side of the gym(almost choked out my boss) but I'm now more conscious of the aggression and able to control it better.
-My strength is definitely getting better, as noted on most of my workouts.

-Here is the real deal boys, i only have one more week of norandro left. i proposed a change in the cycle from 4, too 6 weeks earlier and received no feedback. i would be bridging the 3 weeks of norandro with 3 weeks of zol and the 4AD as the base throughout. I'm now thinking of just starting formestane at the end of the third week as a bridge into pct. my thought behind this is that i begin full time football and school in early august. i want to be able to bulk up as much as possible by July so that i will be done with pct and totally clean for the beginning of the football season. the aforementioned 4ad-nor-zol stack is not what i would consider a major bulking cycle. so cutting it down to 4 weeks, taking five off, then jumping onto a crazy cycle like (xmass-PP-4ad) or any conceivable combination of the products i have on hand (ZOL,TRN, XMASS,4AD,EMAX,TEST GEL) i even have access to some M1T.
-some feedback on strategy, current cycle, or future cycle would be greatly appreciated.

I'm going to be posting a thread question about what to use as a future cycle stack, feel free to post your ideas on this, or the other soon coming thread. thanks..
 
smokey the bear

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Max effort leg day today, finishing weight noted:
-box squat, 5x5, for 455
-hex bar dead lift, 3x5, 1 rep max of 500(personal best)
-speed skater(one leg) squats, 3x6per leg, 90's
-extensions, 3x10, 585 + 15 second hold
-ham curls, 4x10, 280
-skipped calves tonight reason explained...

So spring training for football began today. i will be on my feet doing allot of running and such, so I'm opting to skip calves on my leg day until i adapt to the stresses of practice.

I have also made up my mind on ending the cycle at 4 weeks. this being the third and last week of norandro, i will be increasing my dose of 4AD to 750-1000mg TD the last week combined with some formestane for good measure.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. thanks:)
 
smokey the bear

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since my last post i have trained core, chest and tri's for strength, and back and bi's for repetition. my strength is slowly but steadily rising on most every lift. i have been experiencing crazy muscle burning during my workouts. most would find this to be normal, but i usually don't get much of any lactic acid buildup when i preform compound movement exercises(bench press, squats, shoulder press...) i will post my updated stats this later weekend.
 
smokey the bear

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As of this morning i am holding steady at 211 lbs. this is pretty lame considering i have been at this weight for a whole week now. i think that my body may be adjusted to the doses of 4ad and nor and is no longer reacting or something.... i know that is a b.s. excuse and is not a physiologically acceptable answer, but wtf. my cals, are actually higher this week than the three prior, and my training has not changed significantly at all. the following week is the final week of this cycle and the 4AD will be upped to 1000mg TD, while the nor will no longer be used. i did do a u/a and bp test today and both are basically the same as last week...
 

same_old

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the following week is the final week of this cycle and the 4AD will be upped to 1000mg TD, while the nor will no longer be used. i did do a u/a and bp test today and both are basically the same as last week...
why are you dropping the 19nor?
 
smokey the bear

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I began the cycle planning on using only 400mg of nor daily. the decision to change the dose to 600mg ultimately meant i could only run it for three weeks. So here i am now, two days without the 19nor. I am dosing the 4AD high in hopes of pulling off some additional gains before the end of this cycle..wish i would have planned ahead for this one...duhhh..
 
smokey the bear

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Today is the final day of the cycle. In summary, this was probably one of the most pleasantly mild stacks i have done. No notable problems with libido, shrinkage, BP(actually lowered), acne, body aches, pumps etc...I increased in all of my lifts, and did not have any joint problems along the way. Here are my current stats:

shoulders:53"(same)
chest: 45.5"(+.5")
bicep:14.5"(+.5")
waist:36"(+.5")bad!
upper thigh:26.5"(+.5")
lower thigh:18.5"(+.5")
calf:15.75"(+.25")

height:6'1"
weight:214(+10 lbs)

So in the four weeks on this 'mild' cycle i set about three person bests (dead lifts, leg press, and rows) and put on a pretty decent 10 lbs. i have to say that this cycle was pretty much what i had expected as far as weight gain, yet the strength gains were better than i had pictured. this may be partially attributed to the new routine i was doing, yet some came from the stack..

pct begins tomorrow. i actually toned down my planned pct because this turned out to be the least suppressive cycle Ive probably ever done. here is my new scheme:

days1-3:clomid@200mg, days4-7:clomid@100mg
wk2:nolva@30mg,
wk3:nolva@10mg, ATD@50mg
wk4:Androstenetrione@250mg

Tribulus@2g,[email protected], Fenugreek@2g, and DHEA@25mg will be included throughout pct. I will also be using CEE,AEE, Cissus, Colostrum, and liver pro beginning week 2 of pct.

i expect to lose a pound or so from bloat, and will periodically update this log until the end of pct. All in all this was a great cycle and i wish that these products were still readily available.
-Smokey
 

bravoboy2005

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I thought they banned prohormones like 19 Nor.
 
CNorris

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They are banned. I do have the opportunity to buy some 4-AD, Nor 4-AD, 19-NOR and 1-T. Its so much more expensive than Phera or SD I dont think its even worth it. Anyone have any feedback on this thought? Plus I hear 4-AD (dione) is harsh. Where 4-AD (diol) isnt as bad. Are these worth grabbing before you cant get them anymore? I have enough orals to run 2 cycles PP, 2 SD with about 2 cycles worth of Prostan too. It doesnt seem like I will ever use the andro if i get it. It just seems better to me maybe cause its "forbidden by law" :twisted:
 
smokey the bear

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cnorris, i know of the place your thinking about getting the prohormones... its way way overpriced. i do know of a different source for 4ad at a good price.. the only thing that i would even consider getting from your source would be the nordiolxs if they even have any left in stock...
 

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Is there a good alternative to 4AD. I have M1T but no 4AD to run with it.
 
smokey the bear

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i have heard that the newly released product methoxyTST is somewhat comparable to 4AD's effects, as far as structure goes, i don't know.. yet why substitute it when the real deal is still available???
 
smokey the bear

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One week into pct and all is well. you may scold me for this but i actually took this whole week off of training. it has been over four month's since i had taken a whole week off, so i thought it was about time. i am at 211 lbs now, down 3 since end of cycle. the minor bloat i was experiencing near the end of the cycle subsided about two days into pct. i have been taking 200mg clomid ed. along with fenugreek,tribulus,zma,avena sativa...my boys are already back to the fullest. this being my first time using clom, i am very impressed by its effect, great stuff !! and i have not had any really noticeable effects on my vision, that i have heard about.

so, today was the first day back to lifting and it was pretty decent. i had a good pump which lasted quite a while after training. i also began a new training plan as of today, so far so good.

I begin nolva at 20mg, along with atd at 25mg ed tomorrow. my pct is not exactly what i had laid out previously. i am just kind of going by how my body is feeling on this pct. i will post again next week with updates on pct progress.
 
bioman

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Nice work, Smokey.

I think pct is a great time to lay off training for a week or so. It makes no sense to me to workout and do damage to your muscles when you have zero circulating test at the begining of pct.

Others, of course, disagree with me on this theory. lol
 
smokey the bear

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Nice work, Smokey.

I think pct is a great time to lay off training for a week or so. It makes no sense to me to workout and do damage to your muscles when you have zero circulating test at the begining of pct.

Others, of course, disagree with me on this theory. lol
Thanks, that honestly means a lot coming from you bro. the hard work is paying off, and that break felt great. I'm gonna keep pushing through this pct and even try to put on some more weight. I'm taking arginine and creatine ethyl ester along with some kreakaline(sp) and cissus. i will keep you posted with the results.
 
smokey the bear

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This is by far the best pct i have ever done. My boys even appear to be larger than before the cycle. My weight has even been up to 213lbs consistently all week. feeling good looking better, this should be my last post of this cycle. one comment on atd tho, the first two days taking at 25mg i felt semi-anxious and a bit tired. this may just be a coincidence, and it wasn't pronounced enough to stop taking it.. so in a short conclusion norandro+4ad stack is a pleasantly productive and mild stack, and in my experience was only lightly suppressive, and has a quick and easy pct.. i would recommend this stack to a beginner, or someone looking for mild cycle very low in sides.
 
smokey the bear

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As my pct has now come to a close i am weighing in at 215 lbs. i have gained a good pound of fat that is a bit noticable in my midsection, but thats fine with me and part of my goals.. i just got back from my doctor with the results of my blood work. im not ging to post all the detail unless someone asks. basicly the liver/kidney panel showed minor signs of dehydration, good liver enzyme levels, and fairly good cholesterol profile. my LDL was in the middle of the referance range, while my HDL was at the lower end of the referance range. the low HDL is most likely genetic, coming from my dad(also low HDL).

the part of the test that left me wondering was the testosterone levels here they are:

total testosterone:1992 !!!, ref range 241-827 (high)
free testosterone:620 !!, ref range 34-194 (high)
SHBG: 27, ref range 13-71 (normal)

This test was taken on the day after my last administration of 25mg ATD, and 10mg nolva. while reviewing these results my doctor picked up a vial of test cypionate and was like "are you sure your not taking this, i thought you were off cycle?" My real question is, how much of the excess testosterone can the ATD account for as false positive on the test??? these numbers, even at my age, seem very high. im not concerned in a negative way, but some anwers and justification of these astronomical numbers would be nice..
 

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the part of the test that left me wondering was the testosterone levels here they are:

total testosterone:1992 !!!, ref range 241-827 (high)
free testosterone:620 !!, ref range 34-194 (high)
SHBG: 27, ref range 13-71 (normal)

This test was taken on the day after my last administration of 25mg ATD, and 10mg nolva. while reviewing these results my doctor picked up a vial of test cypionate and was like "are you sure your not taking this, i thought you were off cycle?" My real question is, how much of the excess testosterone can the ATD account for as false positive on the test??? these numbers, even at my age, seem very high. im not concerned in a negative way, but some anwers and justification of these astronomical numbers would be nice..
LOL...ATD almost always makes tested hormone levels come out screwy. there are several other posts from guys who experienced the same disparity. there's no way to tell what the "corrected" levels are. the chemical consistently throws that test for a loop and gives values that are nonsensical.

rest assured, the test isnt correct. if you want real numbers, quit the ATD and retest in a month. i'm curious how your post-PCT numbers will come out, hormone-wise as i am going to do a semi-similar cycle in a few months.
 

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