Discuss: AAS and your lipid profile

[logan]

I'm finding information surrouding this topic very interesting. From all the side effects that AAS can cause on the human body I feel that the one's concerning cardiovascular health are the what we really need to learn more about. Especially when it comes to the resposible long term use of anabolics.

An in interesting study that is listed in Anabolics 2005 was published in the American Journal of Physiology Endocrinology and Metabolism in July of 2001. I treid to find the exact study online but can't sem to find it on their website.

This sums it up: They took 61 normal men ages 18-35. Divided them into five groups, each receiving weekly injections of testosterone enanthate for a peroid of 20 weeks. The dosages for the groups were 25, 50, 125, 300 and 600 mg per week. They followed the cycle by a recovery period of 16 weeks.

Ok, now for the good stuff. I'm only going to focus on the 600mg group since it is the closest to the dosages normally used by us. After the cycle there were no significant changes in prostate-specific antigen, liver enzymes, sexual activity, or cognitive functioning. The only negative trait was a slight reductiond in HDL. 9 points lower in the 600mg group which averaged 34 points of HDL after the 20 weeks. Normal range is 40-59 points. Also all the other groups remained in normal referance range for males.

I'm still learning about all this and just a few weeks away from my first cycle. But I thought it was interesting to see that good old testosterone is pretty forgiving on one's lipid profile(dose and cycle length dependant of course). Even after 20 weeks of use.

In the greater scheme of things. Couldn't one argue that the occasional use of testosterone(once a year???) in moderate dosages(400-600mg per week???) and moderate cycle lengths(10-16weeks???) could be done without any significant negative impact to someone's lipid profile? Maybe even without any longterm cardiovascular damage??
*Just threw in those numbers for dosages, cycle lengths...not based on anything. For argumnets sake *

I know it's a whole different story when it comes to other AAS such as a lot of the c17 alpha alkylated substances. Plus the stacking of some AAS.

I was curious if anyone knew of any studies on Dianabol and its effects on lipid profiles. Being it is one I'm considering kick starting my test e cycle with.

I am by no means an expert and still very much a novice:thumbsup: but I like to learn and thought I'd toss some ideas in the air to talk about and discuss. Can't go wrong with all the brain power and experience on this board.

cheers

 

[Brennon]

I ran 1000mg of test for 14 weeks and this was my lipid panel at the end

Cholesterol, Total 146 (100-199)
Triglycerides 86
HDL 54 (40-59)
VLDL 17 (5-40)
LDL 75 (0-99)

 

[Beowulf]

scheme of things. Couldn't one argue that the occasional use of testosterone(once a year???) in moderate dosages(400-600mg per week???) and moderate cycle lengths(10-16weeks???) could be done without any significant negative impact to someone's lipid profile? Maybe even without any longterm cardiovascular damage??

cheers

This is the point of why so many people are so angrily opposed the scheduling of AAS. Look for the thread in general chat titled something like: I wish everyone could see this video about ASS. (His mistake not mine; ass/aas


Like you said, it is the methyls that really cause lipid problems.

 

[SJA]

Correct Beo.....Just remember that lipid health is only ONE of the things to be concerned with Logan. You seem very smart and are doing your research and for that I will rep you. Just keep in mind that you are still young and may want kids someday. You do not want "grape nuts" (phrase coined by our own Ageless) and find yourself without the ability to have children later in life. If you maintain your current attitude of researching and logical approach, then you will be fine. Be sure to follow proper PCT protocol and don't get the "more is better" attitude as so many of us get in this world. Diet and training will be paramount anyway adn at your age you can make pretty good gains as a natty, but if you enter the AAS world, keep your wits about you and you'll be fine.

One more thing....bloodwork..bloodwork...bloodwork

 

[shct]

i watched the video yesterday..

showing the bad side not being so bad and only proving the fact that if over 21 and dosage is correct and not screwing around, it is not as bad as they say...they use deaths from various things and knowing they took aas, they try to just blame that - hah

i took ergomax, a legal for now PH - now 2 months out from pct:

cholesterol - 207 -
Trigyycerides - 72 -
HDL - 38 -
LDL - 155 -
Ratio - 5.4 -

with above said and out of range for standard lipids, this is the range that my family is in - for us it is normal. genetics my friend can be a funny thing...

shct

 

[logan]

Correct Beo.....Just remember that lipid health is only ONE of the things to be concerned with Logan. You seem very smart and are doing your research and for that I will rep you. Just keep in mind that you are still young and may want kids someday. You do not want "grape nuts" (phrase coined by our own Ageless) and find yourself without the ability to have children later in life. If you maintain your current attitude of researching and logical approach, then you will be fine. Be sure to follow proper PCT protocol and don't get the "more is better" attitude as so many of us get in this world. Diet and training will be paramount anyway adn at your age you can make pretty good gains as a natty, but if you enter the AAS world, keep your wits about you and you'll be fine.

One more thing....bloodwork..bloodwork...bloodwork

Thanks for the kind words and advice(and reps ). I agree that PCT is just as important or even more so than the actual cycle. You have to bring your body back to balance and a state of harmony as efficiently as you can. Especially if you want to be in this thing for the long run.

Just wanted to keep the focus of this thread on the negatives to lipid profiles and the cardiovascular system.

 

[logan]

I have a copy of the journal article discussed here. Anabolics 2005 improperly cited the source; it was actually published in December of 2001.

Thanks for that bit of info!! no wonder I couldn't find the damn article.
Now I was able to find it! some good charts and information in that study. For those who are interested here is the link:


http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172:study:

 

[logan]

anyone got any studies on either Dianabol or other c17 alpha alkylated substances and how it affects lipid profiles and things?

I've seen one on Anadrol, but the study is done with men around the age of 60. I wanted to find something with a broader range of age groups and younger like the test. study.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

Logan, you seem like a good guy.

Nandi discussed all of this in one of his articles a few years before he passed on. You'll see he also cites some information on winstrol. Its effect on HDL is disasterous. I looked up the studies a long time ago, but if I can recall correctly you can still find the stanozolol one in full text.

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=225

Start at "Why has testosterone been suggested as the "safest" drug to use?"

 

[Jay Mc]

I wrote an article about this for avants magazine mind and muscle. Atherosclerosis is a long term, self perpetuating illness. Even kids will show preliminary atherosclerotic change at autopsy. Not everyone will die of a heart attack or stroke though...Seeing as cardiovascular disease is such a debilitating and common disease I'm of the mindset that I will avoid all possible insults, even if they are seemingly insignificant. For me, someone that isn't a competitive athlete and enjoys the proccess of bodybuilding as much as the pay off, steroids just aren't that great an option. You can get really big with out steroids, its gonna take a while, but you can do it. Ultimately everyone has to make the risk eval on their own. I imagine a lot of young, over zealous people make hasty decisions (about lots of things, not just steroids), but thats part of life.

Hypothetically, say you have a 1% chance of having your 1 cycle of steroids give you a heart attack or a stroke 20 years down the road. To make it interesting, say if you don't use steroids you'll have the same outcome but instead 30 years down the road. Is it worth it? Just fun questions to ponder.

 

[logan]

This article right:

http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/magmain.php?issueID=32&pageID=384

I had also read that as part of my research into the side effects of AAS when it comes to long term use and health.

I do agree on many points. Especially for anyone thinkng of doing AAS to get bloodwork done first and to avoid a cycle if they are already subject to poor cholestoral balance or high blood pressure. As the use of certain AAS will not help their cause.

However, as shown in the study I mentioned. There are certain AAS that can be used without causing significant change to you lipd profile. For example test e at moderate dosages can be used without any change in you LDL and only a slight drop in HDL. A drop that may very well still leave you within the normal range. I highly doubt such a minimal drop would pose that much of a threat.

I'm still new at this. So I have yet to read any studies on AAS and hemodynamic change. This being the other possible risk factor. If you know of any studies that I can look at that would be great.

I would still argue that as long as someone gets there bloodwork done first to make sure things are well within normal range. Then using using certain AAS in moderate amounts and with long off periods in between cycles would result in a very minimal risk of any future cardiovascular problems.

I am by far an expert on any of this. I'm just asking questions, reading and learning.

I'm stressing cautious and intellectual use here and not abuse. There is a big difference between the two of them.

 

[Jay Mc]

This article right:

http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/magmain.php?issueID=32&pageID=384

I had also read that as part of my research into the side effects of AAS when it comes to long term use and health.

I do agree on many points. Especially for anyone thinkng of doing AAS to get bloodwork done first and to avoid a cycle if they are already subject to poor cholestoral balance or high blood pressure. As the use of certain AAS will not help their cause.

However, as shown in the study I mentioned. There are certain AAS that can be used without causing significant change to you lipd profile. For example test e at moderate dosages can be used without any change in you LDL and only a slight drop in HDL. A drop that may very well still leave you within the normal range. I highly doubt such a minimal drop would pose that much of a threat.

I'm still new at this. So I have yet to read any studies on AAS and hemodynamic change. This being the other possible risk factor. If you know of any studies that I can look at that would be great.

I would still argue that as long as someone gets there bloodwork done first to make sure things are well within normal range. Then using using certain AAS in moderate amounts and with long off periods in between cycles would result in a very minimal risk of any future cardiovascular problems.

I am by far an expert on any of this. I'm just asking questions, reading and learning.

I'm stressing cautious and intellectual use here and not abuse. There is a big difference between the two of them.

Studies on the effects of steroids are few and far between. You'll find some odd things in mice and stuff but its not always easy to draw real world conclusions. One thing you can think about is the difference between the incidence of CVD in men and women of the same age. Its likely mostly due to the protective effects of estrogen, but the damaging effects of testosterone can't be ignored.

It sounds like you're one of the ones that will do things right . Doesn't mean you wont get burned but you'll be a lot better off than most folks. I wish I could point you to and give you a definitive answer but they just don't exist in my opinion.