Ergomax LMG/4AD vs. Mdien/4AD

methyl-D

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I thought I was sold on doing my first cycle as mdien/4ad. I have also read alot about emax lmg, which I also have. Which one do you guys recommend? I can also run the 4AD with LMG. I want to BULK. it seems that many have had better results on emax then mdien. Now im confused. Should I just do the emax/4AD? Keep it at 20/20/20/20/20 emax and 600mg ed for 4AD? From what I understand, 20 is the best for emax without experiencing alot of sides. I plan on starting on Mon so let me know what you guys think.
 
DR.D

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I thought I was sold on doing my first cycle as mdien/4ad. I have also read alot about emax lmg, which I also have. Which one do you guys recommend? I can also run the 4AD with LMG. I want to BULK. it seems that many have had better results on emax then mdien. Now im confused. Should I just do the emax/4AD? Keep it at 20/20/20/20/20 emax and 600mg ed for 4AD? From what I understand, 20 is the best for emax without experiencing alot of sides. I plan on starting on Mon so let me know what you guys think.
How much Mdiene do you have? Ay 10-15mg/d it's a good bulker too with 4AD.
 
methyl-D

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I have enough. 100 4mg tabs and 90 1mg tabs. I was under the impression that mdiene is more effective as a cutter. So you think that would be an effective cycle then? With mdiene ramped from 6-15mg ed. Like 6/10/15/15/15 maybe? stacked with 4AD. Nolva at 40/40/20/20 for PCT along with perfect cycle liver support and milk thistle
 
Brfish

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Personally for me, Emax LMG is a MUCH better Bulker. I did a couple of cycles of Mdien at 12-15mg ED and it did nothing noticable for me. I blow up on Emax though ;)
 
methyl-D

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Brfish what did you run it at and for how long? What sides did you experience? How was PCT?
 
milwood

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I'd kick it off with Ergo for 3-4 weeks followed by MDien for 3-4 weeks. Emax at 20 and MD about 12. 4AD the whole way, but I'd drop that in the last week.
 
DR.D

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I have enough. 100 4mg tabs and 90 1mg tabs. I was under the impression that mdiene is more effective as a cutter. So you think that would be an effective cycle then? With mdiene ramped from 6-15mg ed. Like 6/10/15/15/15 maybe? stacked with 4AD. Nolva at 40/40/20/20 for PCT along with perfect cycle liver support and milk thistle
Hmm..
Maybe start with the Emax and finish with the MD. Like 10,20,20 then 15,15,8. I still haven't tried Emax, but I like PP. The gains are wetter but still quality, I just liked the high dose MD personally. Like what Milwood suggested above basically.
 
methyl-D

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sounds good....i dont want to have to be tooooo concerned about toxicity though. Although I would be switching to mdien half way through, it would still be 6-8 weeks on a methyl. 8 weeks just sounds too long to me. I think I will follow your advice, but maybe 6 weeks for the cycle. Also, If I do a six week cycle, should I modify my pct at all? DR.D you are suggesting to ramp up with the emax and down with the mdien. Do you think ramping up with emax is really necessary? Alot of guys on here start and end with 20mg ed and get good results with little sides. This is quite possibly the only cycle I will ever do so I want to get the most out of it. Thanks for the responses/ advice!
 
DR.D

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Methyl-D,
You actually don't need to ramp up with Emax probably, it feels clean enough (mood, BP, salt retention, etc.) that you have no shock to your system starting at 20mg, but I'd still ramp off kind of abruptly with the MD at the end. 8wks is OK with the protection you mentioned, but 6wks is not a problem for sure with these methyls. Unless, you already have some pre-existing liver issue.
 
DR.D

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... Also, If I do a six week cycle, should I modify my pct at all? ...
Sorry I missed that! I'd start at a higher dose of Nolva, like 60,40,20,20 rather than extend the PCT, but a 6wks PCT would not be bad either, like: 40,40,20,20,10,10. It generally works both ways, unless the cyle was very long.
 
anabolicrhino

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I liked M-Dien between 16-24 mgs/day. Good lean gains. I liked EMAX @ 20 mgs/day even more. It was very clean with a quick PCT. I am planning my first cycle of 2006 to be a combination of the two, ramping up to the same dosages for both
 
Brfish

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Brfish what did you run it at and for how long? What sides did you experience? How was PCT?
I did 20-20-30-30 with 200mg Trans 4AD ED (Front loaded the 4AD 1 week)

For PCT I did Nolva at 40-40-20-20 and RXT 25-25-50-50

I gained about 25lbs, not all lean as I ate like a monster and got kinda fat :blink:

I lost about 5lbs during PCT and have maintained since. I really miss being on as I felt like an animal in the Gym, and am now struggling to try to maintain the same weights and reps.

My strength went up quite a bit. For examble I was pressing 95lbs DBs for 7-8 reps and then while on I got 110lbs DB for 10 reps (3 sets). I did not go higher as it hurt my wrists too much. I am now doing the 110lbs DB for 6-8 reps.
 
methyl-D

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started my cycle today. ill keep results posted every couple days or so. Im I doing this transdermal 4AD right? You're supposed to jerk off with this stuff, right?:think:
 
DR.D

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... I did not go higher as it hurt my wrists too much ...
I've messed up my wrists so many times doing rows, heavy bench and jerks, I just wear straps now and I don't have to worry about going heavy as much.
 
methyl-D

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I have taken 2 500mg doses of trans 4D and 20mg doses of ergomax lmg so far. I have a BAD freakin headache, dont now if this can be attributed to phs or not. Anybody heard of headaches associated with Trans 4AD or Emax? Hope it goes away so I can hit back/bis today! I will be getting a tape measure today and will keep results posted
 
methyl-D

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also, has anyone seen any information as to whether or not I should be using the 4-AD and taking the ergomax at the same time during the day. I use them both at 7a.m. and 7p.m. Should I stagger the 2 or is this fine?
 
DR.D

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also, has anyone seen any information as to whether or not I should be using the 4-AD and taking the ergomax at the same time during the day. I use them both at 7a.m. and 7p.m. Should I stagger the 2 or is this fine?
Take the Emax at noon or pre-w/o
and/or
lower your 4AD dose.

4AD was one of the worst about headaches for me.
 
methyl-D

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Nice thanks Dr.D. I will drop dose of 4AD to say 300mg 2X/day. Headache is gone now thank god. For those interested, I thought I would post what other supplements I am on.
15g BCAAs/day
12g Arginine/day
NO2
CE2
1G milk thistle/day on cycle
Myoplex-3 shakes/day

My diet: 3500 cals/day
lots of chicken and salmon, sweet potatoes/eggs/pasta/veggies
Protein: 300-340g/day

My stats: 6'4" 202lbs
est body fat %: 10-12 (11 as of 2 months ago)
*measurements will be up tonight or tomorrow

Let me know if anyone wants any more details about anything. I want to try and keep a good log
 
anabolicrhino

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Nice thanks Dr.D. I will drop dose of 4AD to say 300mg 2X/day. Headache is gone now thank god. For those interested, I thought I would post what other supplements I am on.
15g BCAAs/day
12g Arginine/day
NO2
CE2
1G milk thistle/day on cycle
Myoplex-3 shakes/day

My diet: 3500 cals/day
lots of chicken and salmon, sweet potatoes/eggs/pasta/veggies
Protein: 300-340g/day

My stats: 6'4" 202lbs
est body fat %: 10-12 (11 as of 2 months ago)
*measurements will be up tonight or tomorrow

Let me know if anyone wants any more details about anything. I want to try and keep a good log
I really enjoy 4-AD + 5AA(transdermal) as a preworkout( morning ) I also find it to be more of an irritant( headaches, anger) later in the day. I'll take EMAX post meals and MD(and all Nandros) in the evening. It just seems more congruent with my natural hormone cycles.

What are your ultimate goals? Some one who is 6'4" 200lbs could pack on a good 40lbs, depending on your frame and ability to eat alot. Good Luck!
 
methyl-D

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40lbs of muscle!!!??? Holy geez! Id prolly walk around in my boxers all day lol!
 
methyl-D

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OK here are my measurements at beginning of cycle.
arms- 16"
forearms- 12.5"
chest- 41"
waist- 32"
thighs- 12.5"
calf-15"

Lat me explain about chicken legs. I have scoliosis and was always scared to do squats/deadlifts. I have always dont extensions/curls but thats just good enough to maintain. I had a long talk with my doc and he said squats are fine as long as I progress slowly in weight. He also said "light" deadlifts are fine. I have now been training legs for a little over a month. I expect my legs to respond best during this cycle.

-anabolicrhino I have no idea what kind of results to expect with this cycle, as this is my first one. My only goal is to increase mass, with minmal fat gain.
 
anabolicrhino

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40lbs of muscle!!!??? Holy geez! Id prolly walk around in my boxers all day lol!
Ummm...just to clearify, I meant 40lbs cummitively over a lifetime. Not that 40lbs on one cycle is impossible. It just would require different supplements... and the disappointment of losing 37 lbs.
 
methyl-D

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its cool bro. I was just messing around :) Im definitely not expecting to get 40 lbs of muscle.
 
Brfish

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I too have a bit of a bend to my spine and have hurt my back twice trying to go too heavy on deads. I Just started to do squats again this past week and only got up to 155lbs for 10 reps 3x. I hope to slowly progress back to 245lbs like I was before I hut my back. I have been focusing more on form and the muscle contraction than the amount of weight and it killed my legs :thumbsup:
 
methyl-D

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nice yea exact same with me. I try to get a little pause at the bottom of my squats get into a good tempo. What sucks is it really throws my symmetry off. My right shoulderblade sticks out further than my left. My shoulders sit at slightly different angles I think and it causes me to really watch my form. Even though I do this, my left tricep is bigger than my left. I just try to switch bars/angles that I work with to compensate. Guess thats really all I can do
 
methyl-D

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ok im getting irritated. Can find the info I need. I have been taking a shower about 30 mins after application of trans 4AD. The bottle says allow 5 mins to dry. So if its dry does that mean absorbtion stops??? Should I leave it on longer?
 
Brfish

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Allow 5 mins to dry before you put on a shirt, but do not shower for like an hour at least. It is best to apply right after you dry off from your shower and use a luffa to remove the dead skin in the area of application.
 
methyl-D

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nice glad I caught that now and not in a week lol. thanks man!
 
methyl-D

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shoulder workout was awesome...had a great pump and lots of energy. Workout only took 30-35mins. Did tris as well. I think im gonna start including tris with shoulders. Some on chest day as well when doing dips. But my tris never get as pumped as they were today. I think tris and shoulders are a good match
 
methyl-D

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today and tomorrow=rest. Lots of stuff to do for work. Resume with legs on thurs.
 

Moyer

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Subscribed.

I thought maybe bloat would be a problem when adding 4AD to Emax or PP but I'm probably wrong, otherwise one of these guys would've mentioned it.
 
methyl-D

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Has anyone heard of people having heartburn issues with 4AD or Emax? Seems like it has been constant for me the last 3 days or so. Could have something to do with diet, but I didnt experience this before starting my cycle.
 
methyl-D

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Did legs yesterday. Went heavier on squats and leg presses but, nothing really to report. Chest day today!!
 
methyl-D

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WoW!!! I have gained almost 5lbs in 1 week!!! Waist measurement is still the same!! I weighed myself this morning when I got up and was like "holy ****!!" At least I know the Ergo is workin. All lifts today were up. I did chest. Threw on 5lbs above what I normally do for flat bench and puonded out the same # of reps. Very, very good day today. Gonna look into SNS CEE matrix and aginine matrix. I dont think im getting the results I could be with the CE2 and reg. arginine that ive been taking. Need $$ first though
 
methyl-D

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back/bis today. Very intense. I walked into the gym feeling like I coulld do 20 sets of everything. Very focused today. 45min workout. Another good note...my recovery time has been cut down drastically
 

Cordeen

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I started Ergomax today. 20mgs per day.

Think there's any benefits from taking Activate while on Ergomax?

"Methyl D, How's the libido now anyhow?"
 
DR.D

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... Think there's any benefits from taking Activate while on Ergomax? ...
Yes, it will have some benefits for sure (read the write up), but maybe not as much as it would toward gains at the end of a cycle that involves something like test that binds tightly to SHBG.
 
methyl-D

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Cordeen libido is good thus far...Havent noticed any change at all with libido actually.
Today I did shoulders/tris. This was one of the best shoulder workouts I have had. My lifting partner and I use the same weight for almost everything. Today I was lifting more weight, with more reps than him. It was nice. Today was the first day that I would say strength gains are coming along.
 
methyl-D

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One thing that I can say is that I havent developed ANY pimples. I was expecting to see some by now because from what I understand it is VERY common with ergo. Im not complaining tho lol
 
methyl-D

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getting worried. Ever since I got up this morning, my nipples kinda stick out like I am cold, but they are not hard. No itchiness/ burning. Maybe a little sensitivity.
 
methyl-D

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What kind of AI can I take on cycle? Read alot about raloxifene, seems really good to take on cycle, but cant find it anywhere. Any other ideas. I want to start somethin ASAP
 

Grifter

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At 6'4'', I would try to push a few more calories, if this is an all out bulk.
 
methyl-D

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Think im gonna try novedex xt on cycle to see if it can help with the puffy nips. Anyways, today was leg day and it was INTENSE. 4 sets squats, 4 sets leg press, 4 sets extensions, 4 sets curls, 4 sets calf raises on smith maching, 2 sets seated calf raise in 30 mins. Usually takes me 45 or so. I was pressed 4 time today so I did it fast (60 secs rest each set at 6-8 reps). Incredible pump today. weight up 7lbs.

What do you guys think of the novedex xt on cycle? How much to I take in a day?
 
wastedwhiteboy2

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I've used rxt on cycle before to control bloat. I used one pill at night. try that for a couple of days and raise the dose if necessary.
 

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