Possibly The Worse Side to AAS & How to Handle It
03-30-2003 11:31 PM
Possibly The Worse Side to AAS & How to Handle It
Why is it that users don't realize that the worst side of steroid use is a VERY ****ty lipid profile. Well I think it's because one cannot SEE a ****ty lipid profile and you don't feel bad with it.
I would venture to say that it is universal with men that are taking even half decent doses of gear.
Total cholesterol usually doesn't go up that much with roids, although it can climb, and triglycerides sometimes go down but usually stay about the same. What makes steroid use so scarry is the TERRIBLE affect it have on hdl. Hdl(good cholesterol) really takes a dive. Hdl to total cholesterol ratio's are OFTEN as bad as 15 or 20 to 1 and that is very significant indeed. The last time I had my lipid profile checked my doc had a COW!! I don't know if I will ever do test and tren again for a long eight week cycle.
People with a low hdl have a significantly higher risk for heart disease.
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that heart disease doesn't happen in a few years in old or middle age. It is most often though to be the result of a slow build up of aterial plaque over many many years and perhaps starting in childhood!
So with all this in mind it makes sence to limit androgen use as much as possible and to take plenty of time off between cycles.
Bill Llewellyn suggests moderate doses of non 17aa mild aromatizing androgens like EQ and perhaps a liitle nandrolone. Low doses of test are not that bad either. Seems that a little estrogen may be helpful here. Nothing hammers my hdl more than tren and we know it is the most powerful androgen and doesn't aromatize.
Bill also suggests the use of an estrogen blocker throughout the cycle , such as clomid or nolva. He reports that Nolva has helped his hdl. There are a couple studies that suggest that nolva can be helpful for men with heart disease but these men are not on AAS. Nolva has not helped me BTW but perhaps it's worth a try.
Short two week cycles may be an option for some as even if the lipid profile is hammered the short time would reduce risks associated with this change.
I have posted a good deal on two weekers over at Elite. They can work IF done properly. Huge gains cannot be expected of course but decent gains can be made.
Niacin increases hdl more than any drug. Lipidor and the like are better at reducing ldl.
Niacin needs to be taken in high dose in order to be effective. 1500mg to 3000 mg per day. Do NOT use the old time released niacins as they are very hard on the liver. Even regular niacin can have some impact so be sure to be followed by your doc.
I take non fluch niacin at about 1800mg per day and it does seem to help. BEWARE..the flush from regular niacin is UNREAL but some poeple actually grow to enjoy it he he he . Start slow and build up.
Omega 3 and 6 oils help so get some flax seed and grind it up in a coffee grinder and throw it into your protein drinks...a few table spoons is good. Flax is a great source of Omega three's. You can also buy flax oil or combo oils like Udo's select oil.
Salmon Tuna Macheral and Sarines are pretty good sources of Omegas three, especially sardines..so start making your Grampa's sardines sandwiches.
Avoid saturated fat like the plague(land animal fat and egg yolks)
Okay some is okay but be careful as a high saturated fat diet WILL mess with your lipid profile.
Limit cholesterol a little, although saturated fat is FAR WORSE...just don't be eating a half dozen egg yolks per day.
Avoid trans fats. Trans fatty acids are man made fats and are found in large doses in PARTIALLY hydrogenated oils(margerine).
Another way of saying partially hydrogenated is "Vegetable oil shortening."
Avoid all store bought oils except extra virgin olive oil. All oils, except for cold pressed olive oil, have been super heated to over 400 degree's and as a result their chemical composition changes and they become toxic as hell and really mess with your lipid profile!
Butter is a neutral fat and is far better than margerine or corn oil etc, even though its saturated.
NEVER fry with any oil above 250 degree's ..get an electric frying pan. The safest oils to fry with are olive oil and butter. NEVER EVER fry with oils high in Omega 3 or 6 as they become very unstable.
Buy the book "Fats that Heal Fats that Kill" by Udo Erasmus. EXTREMELY EXCELLENT BOOK!
Do 30 minutes of cardio at a decent intensity three time per week as this help increase hdl.
03-31-2003 01:43 AM
The "invisible" harm is so true. Half of the people doing cycles in gym I'm sure know nothing about what's going on inside them...when they have a heart attack down the road, it gives roids the bad rep and smart users get shafted too.
03-31-2003 09:52 AM
A good summary on lipids by YJ. This is a subject I've been researching and one I may try writing an article on....if I have the time. The reason I researched cholesterol was the fact that last year my Doc found mine to be high (310)....not a good sign. I don't remember if I was on PH at the time, but I may have been.....and they may have effected lipid profile. High cholesterol runs in my family, which according to the Doc, makes me pre-dissposed to high cholesterol. My most recent visit to the Doc has shown improvement..... cholesterol (ldl) now 226 instead of 310.
On to remedies and medication. I'll start by saying I was against medication because of it's effects on the liver, which led me to go the 'natural route'. Vit B3 or nicotinic acid has proven to lower cholesterol levels in doses stated on YJ's post. I also found a chineese tea called Gynostemma Pentaphyllum, which is also known to lower chol. levels.....it acctually lowered mine 90 points in 4wks. Others include garlic, red yeast rice, efa's among others.
I finally decided to take my medication after much research and consideration. Also, after watching my father go through TWO open heart surgerys....the second at age 71.....and he's still trucking. If anyone has ??? on the subject I'll be happy to help how I can via PM or e-mail. As previously stated I will try to write an article on the subject, which would better explain lipid profiles.
03-31-2003 07:37 PM
Why does he say to "limit cholesterol a little?." Is he just playing both fields because we don't know that dietary cholesterol has an impact on lipid cholesterol levels?
04-02-2003 05:10 PM
I think the general concensus these days is that controlling saturate fat intake is more important than cholesterol intake. High cholesterol foods are often also high in saturated fat so by removing one you remove the other. Usually elevated levels are due to a liver problem (since when you eat more your body SHOULD produce less.) Another food not mentioned was soy protein. 25g a day can reduce LDL by as much as 15%. Fiber is important too. I don't think that was mentioned! Originally posted by dx_banana-eater Why does he say to "limit cholesterol a little?." Is he just playing both fields because we don't know that dietary cholesterol has an impact on lipid cholesterol levels?
04-02-2003 09:33 PM
A little study for you.....
Flow-mediated, endothelium-dependent vasodilatation is impaired in male body builders taking anabolic-androgenic steroids.
Ebenbichler CF, Sturm W, Ganzer H, Bodner J, Mangweth B, Ritsch A, Sandhofer A, Lechleitner M, Foger B, Patsch JR.
Universitatsklinik fur Innere Medizin, Universitat Innsbruck, Innsbruck, Austria. email@example.com. at
Self-administration of anabolic-androgenic steroids to increase muscular strength and lean body mass has been used widely among athletes. Flow mediated dilatation (FMD) determined by ultrasound of the brachial artery is accepted as both an in vivo index of endothelial function and an indicator for future atherosclerosis. FMD was calculated in 20 male non-smoking body builders in different phases of their training cycle and in six male non-smoking control athletes. Ultrasound studies of the brachial artery were performed according to the protocol of Celermajer et al. Of the entire training cycle, work-out phase was training phase without actual intake of anabolic-androgenic steroids over 8 weeks; build-up phase included actual intake of anabolic-androgenic steroids; and competition phase consisted of 8 weeks post intake of anabolic-androgenic steroids. Baseline characteristics did not differ between body builder groups except for a higher weight in competition phase body builders. Hormonal analysis revealed suppressed luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone levels in build-up phase body builders. The lipid profiles showed a marked reduction of HDL-C in build-up phase body builders. FMD was reduced in body builders of all phases when compared to control athletes (work-out phase: 2.5+/-2.7%; build-up phase: 2.1+/-3.0%; competition phase: 0.4+/-2.9% vs. 10.9+/-4.4%, P<0.05 by pairwise comparison using Scheffe's test for work-out phase, build-up phase and competition phase vs. control athletes). The glyceryl trinitrate-induced vasodilatation was diminished, though not statistically significantly, in body builders when compared with control athletes. The differences in FMD persisted after adjustment for vessel size. Our data indicate that intake of anabolic-androgenic steroids is associated with both an atherogenic blood lipid profile and endothelial dysfunction and thus may pose an increased risk of atherosclerosis
04-02-2003 09:45 PM
Serum lipids in power athletes self-administering testosterone and anabolic steroids.
Alen M, Rahkila P, Marniemi J.
The purpose of the present investigation was to study the effects of testosterone and anabolic steroids on serum lipids in power athletes. Altogether 11 national top-level adult athletes completed the study. Five of them volunteered for the study group and the rest for controls. The follow-up consisted of 9 months of a strength training period. During the first 6 months, the subjects in the study group self-administered androgenic steroids on an average of 57 +/- 24.9 mg/day. The most interesting observation was the extremely low high-density lipoprotein (HDL) and HDL2 cholesterol concentrations of the androgen users. After 8 weeks of training, the study group had significantly (P less than 0.05) lower HDL cholesterol concentrations than the control group (0.53 +/- 0.11 and 1.14 +/- 0.19 mmol/l, respectively). This difference remained significant from 8 to 32 weeks of training. No systematic changes were observed in the control group. The HDL2 cholesterol concentration decreased by about 80% (P less than 0.01) and HDL3 cholesterol by about 55% (P less than 0.01) from the onset values in the study group. A substantial decrease in HDL cholesterol to total cholesterol and in HDL2 cholesterol to HDL3 cholesterol ratios were also noticed under the influence of exogenous androgens. The results of this study suggest that the sustained use of testosterone and anabolic steroids have a marked unfavorable effect on the pattern of HDL cholesterol in the serum of male power athletes.
High-density-lipoprotein cholesterol in bodybuilders v powerlifters. Negative effects of androgen use.
Hurley BF, Seals DR, Hagberg JM, Goldberg AC, Ostrove SM, Holloszy JO, Wiest WG, Goldberg AP.
To determine the relationship between lipid profiles and the type of weight training and to assess the effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids on lipids, bodybuilders and powerlifters of similar age, body fat, and testosterone levels were studied before and after androgen use. Before androgen administration powerlifters had lower levels of plasma high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) and HDL2-C (38 +/- 2; 6 +/- 1 mg/dL; means +/- SE, n = 8) than bodybuilders (55 +/- 2; 12 +/- 1 mg/dL; n = 8) and runners of comparable age and body fat (47 +/- 2; 14 +/- 2 mg/dL; n = 8), while levels of low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) were higher in powerlifters (138 +/- 10 mg/dL) than in bodybuilders (104 +/- 7 mg/dL) and runners (110 +/- 6 mg/dL). Therefore, powerlifters had higher LDL-C/HDL-C ratios (3.7 +/- 0.3) than bodybuilders (2.0 +/- 0.2) and runners (2.4 +/- 0.2). Androgen use by eight bodybuilders and four powerlifters lowered values of both HDL-C and HDL2-C by 55% and raised values of LDL-C (61% +/- 10%) and LDL-C/HDL-C ratios (280% +/- 40%). Therefore, the training regimen of bodybuilders is associated with a more favorable lipid profile than the training used by powerlifters. Androgen use by strength-trained athletes may increase their risk for coronary heart disease.
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