Kickstart Strategy?

GrossSizeRocks

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I've done a search and see bits and pieces of discussion on this in other threads, but it's often just one guy saying what one way he would do it.

Trying to broaden the discussion and get it all in one place here, in terms of different people's opinions and different ways of going about it.

Example would be a standard bulker, running Test E or Cyp for 10-12 weeks, maybe running Deca or Eq alongside the Test, and expecting to not feel much for 4 weeks or so.

1) would you go with good old Dbol for just the 4 weeks, or some other (which one?) traditional oral?

2) might you try one of the newer orals, SD or another (which one?) newer substance?

3) since the example base above is a slower acting Test, would you use Prop for just the first 4 weeks instead of an oral?

4) would you just frontload your base substance rather than using any separate substance as a kickstart? What kind of dosing, a double dose one time only, double for 1-2 weeks, double for all 4(??) weeks, start at double and taper down to your base dose (over what time period?), or what?

5) same as (4), except is your strategy in (4) just for your Test E or Cyp while running base dose of Deca or Eq, or do you also frontload the "secondary" AAS in your cycle?

6) any other strategies not covered in 1-5, including not liking to kickstart (for what reason?)
 
Beelzebub

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1) dbol is generally used, and for good reason. it's bad ass....if you can handle the sides (i can't), but i still try to, lol.
2) i say poopy on the new ****
3) prop is a good idea to start off with....if you just can't wait.
4) i think frontloading is BS.
5) refer to 4
6) if i don't kick off with dbol or some real oral, then i just wait for the good stuff.

JMO.

fwiw, i feel testenan kicks in quicker than everyone says it does. i 'feel' it around the end of week 2. mild, but noticeable.
 
jonny21

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Hey Beelz,

How's about a Test Transdermal until the Test E kicks in?
 
Beelzebub

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yeah, it's good to go if you don't mind applying it every 12 hours. i'm just too damn hairy for that ****, lol.
 

GrossSizeRocks

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Beelzebub, thanks, I might have guessed you'd be here with interesting stuff, and fast, too. You were a big help in the thread on Pinning, and I would guess a lot of people here owe you some thanks for any number of things.

Sorry to see your answer to (4) as I was hoping to outsmart the hepatoxicity thing by kicking with an injectable rather than an oral, but the whole idea here is to cast my noob hunches aside and learn from you folks who've been there done that many times. Am hoping, however, to see some compelling arguements (with dosing discussion) FOR frontloading, if others stop by.

Jonny, thanks to you too. Never thought of transdermal, which of course leads me to: how much, how long, how frequently and which Test?
 
jonny21

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yeah, it's good to go if you don't mind applying it every 12 hours. i'm just too damn hairy for that ****, lol.
I was unaware for the need to apply every 12 hours. Do you happen to know the reasoning for this? Ain't doubtin ya but inquiring minds gotta know.

how much, how long, how frequently and which Test?
How much depends on what amount of Test you are planning to take. Test Base is the way to go for Transdermal. I have never taken Test E or cyp but it appears the general consensus is 2 weeks, but experienced users would know better than I. Check out threads by Bpmartyr he recently did a TD Test/Test E cycle.

If you are seeking a comparable amount of test base to test E than multiple test E by ~72%. example: 500mg Test E=360mg test base (thanks Bpmartyr). Then divide by absorption rate % of carrier example: 360/.40 (40% absorption rate)=900mg/week then diveide by 7=~129mg/day would be the equivalent of 500mg Test E per week.
 
Beelzebub

Beelzebub

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some select few 'say' that frontloading works. on paper, it seems like it would but from the feedback i've read from countless guys that have tried it, they all say they didn't notice any difference between when they frontloaded and when they didn't. best way to find out is try it for yourself both ways, and see what you think. try it without frontloading first so you'll have a base for how long it takes you to 'feel' anything. next time, double it for the first couple weeks and see if you 'feel' it faster.

as for the transdermal every 12 hours, base compounds are quick acting, like within an hour or two. there's no ester to **** with or anything so it's in and out rather quickly. best way, IMO, is to keep levels constant by applying every 12 hours. same rule goes for suspension (test base injectable). back when PH's were the ****, i did a transdermal 4AD cycle applying it every 12 hours and i got tired of that **** real fast. shaved my chest (pain in the ass) and each application took at least 10-15 minutes to absorb it all. so, that's ~20-30 minutes a day of rubbing yourself. and i'm going to spend that much time rubbing myself, i'd better get some enjoyment out of it. (insert jokes here).
 
jonny21

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Gotcha :thumbsup:. Thanks for helpin a brutha out.
 
Beelzebub

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just to reitterate, JMO. i'm sure many of you disagree and that's fine. doesn't keep me awake at night.
 

GrossSizeRocks

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Thanks to both of you again. It had occured to me that frontloading might not work, even "on paper."

If an ester slows down the T "reaching" the body and producing the desired effect for your example of 2 weeks or my example of 4 weeks, then, on paper, seems like taking twice as much of it is gonna have twice as much ester slowing down twice as much T for the same amount of time. Maybe it would then hit your body twice as hard, with the rest of the cycle becoming a form of taper-down, but you would then still be idling your engine for those first few weeks, which is what I'm looking to avoid.

To clear something up, in Beelz' first post, in the comment about Prop, there is the mention of impatience, as in "just can't wait."

I see impatience as being a bad thing or a good thing. I plan on a first phase of being on cycle, a 2nd phase of standard PCT and a 3rd phase of being off everything other than nutritional supp's before I launch another cycle in late 2006. If my impatience tempts me to cut Phases 2 and 3 short so I can rush into my next cycle, that's bad.

But if my impatience has me wanting a 12 week cycle giving me 12 weeks of noticable gains instead of 4 weeks of paying my dues to get 8 weeks of gains, and I can figure out the best way to do this by learning from you guys, well, that's why I'm here.
 
jonny21

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If an ester slows down the T "reaching" the body and producing the desired effect for your example of 2 weeks or my example of 4 weeks, then, on paper, seems like taking twice as much of it is gonna have twice as much ester slowing down twice as much T for the same amount of time.
Just an FYI, Test base or Test Suspension has no ester attached.
 

GrossSizeRocks

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Yeah, jonny, I don't know much, but I do know that. I was talking above about whether frontloading injectable Test E or Cyp would cut down on the idling time.

Definitely not thinking of injecting base cause my pussy self has read the stories of crystals jamming all but the biggest needles, plus the frequency of injections.

If you in turn are speaking of transdermals, I am now including that in my thinking around process. That TD concept is new to me as of your earlier post and I've gotta chew on that a while, and see if anyone else posts here in the meantime.

Thanks
 
Beelzebub

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nah, it's not really a jab to the prop kick starters, just more of an observation. i'd rather sit back and wait to see how long before the testenan produces noticeable effects. plus, poking yourself that many times per week can't be fun either. gotta figure, prop is at least EOD and enan is 2x/wk. i figure that's what orals are for, kickstarting. if you haven't used dbol yet, then you're missing out on what could be the best strength gains you'll make the entire cycle. if using prop is in the mix, i'd rather close with it. kinda like this:

weeks 1-12
testenan 500mg/wk
weeks 13-15
testprop 100mg/eod.

PCT starts day after last prop shot. smooth transition into PCT without the fear of the enan ester still being active during your PCT.

JMO
 

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