- 01-04-2006, 04:19 PM
- 01-04-2006, 04:28 PM
20G, 1" needle/syringe combo(buy lots of these for drawing up product)
25G needle only (for injecting product, gotta change needles after you draw it up)
sharpie container (safety reasons)
spotinjections.com is a good place to start
make sure you know the term 'aspirate'.
Last edited by Beelzebub; 01-05-2006 at 08:03 AM.
- 01-04-2006, 04:36 PM
good advice there, but I usually buy the syringe/needle combo with the size needle I use to draw. So I get the 22ga 1" with syringe and then the same number of needle only 25ga 1". That way you only have to change pins once.
01-04-2006, 04:39 PM
thanks guys, i don't know why im such a ***** when it comes to needles but hopefully i can break it
01-04-2006, 04:43 PM
after your first plunge, it is not bad at all.
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE STRONGEST ON THE MARKET
01-04-2006, 05:03 PM
So his rat told him!!Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
01-04-2006, 06:40 PM
Even the first injection isn't all that bad if you're prepared for it. Just do the necessary reading and become comfortable with the whole process and you'll find out you were scared over nothing really. Like the others have said, it's better to have a larger drawing needle, and I also use a slightly longer one as well, 20g 1.5", and then 23g for the injections, 25g is alright too but you'll be there for a good 15 seconds pushing the oil in with a 25g. 23g is still thin enough to be relatively painless.Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
01-04-2006, 06:58 PM
How do you change the pin size? and how much supplies would you recomend purchasing for a 12 week cycle of test enan 500mg a week, 2 injections per week?
01-04-2006, 09:38 PM
You buy seperate individual pins so after you draw the oil you can switch needles on the syringe to a larger guage needle. For 12 weeks of test enanthate with 2 injections a week you would need 24 syringes and 48 needles.Originally Posted by hawaiianstunna
01-04-2006, 10:44 PM
Injecting is easy, just make sure you have the proper procedure memorized.
My first injection went real well, until 5 minutes after I finished it. I got real lighted and felt like I was going to throw up. After I sat down for a few minutes I felt better, then I did my other injection like an hour later (I was frontloading).
I like to buy the 20g 1.5" needle and syringe combo to draw with, then shoot with a 25g 1" needle. Lately though it seems like Terumo has been giving me dull needles right out of the package, but I have never tried BD. Someone else might have some more insight on that for you as to which will be the smoothest.
01-04-2006, 11:14 PM
Actually, the exact same thing happened to me for my first injection as well. As soon as I was done I sat there massaging the area with an alcohol swab and felt extremely nauseous, but then a couple minutes later I felt fine and have never experianced that since.Originally Posted by g4ud1n
01-05-2006, 12:38 AM
Heres my suggestion:
Get BD brand syringes and needles if at all possible. The syringe is not the most important thing as far as brand, but the needle is.
-[Syringe with needle]- 3cc syringe with 20 gauge by 1 1/2 inch needle
( youll use these to pull up the injectables)
-[needle only]- 23 gauge by 1 1/2 inch
( after youve pulled the oil into the syringe, you switch to these and inject w them)
You dont need to use the entire 1 1/2" unless you are very large or have a lot of subcutaneous fat. 1" or a little more will be close for most people for glute and thigh, and a little less than an inch for the delt. Ideally you want to be in the center of the muscle, and by center I mean halfway of its thickness. You dont want to be so shallow that you are in the subcutaneous fat and you dont want to be so deep that you are near the bone.
The syringe and needle have male and female luer locks that twist together and allow you to switch them. Always use the needle cap firmly placed over the needle when switching needles!
For a thigh shot, look at "thigh series #2" there. It is the most accurate representation of where the shot should be. Thigh series #1 shows a very bad shot that is too far around on the side and places you close to the lateral femoral circumflex artery if it is deep enough. We had a bro at BB.com hit this one with a lot of pain and blood! Not to scare you though, this is rare if you choose the right locations.
The glute shot at spotinjections is as far low and rearward as you would want to go ever on a glute shot. Ideally you want to be ventrogluteal, which is in the upper outer glute. The 3 best locations are ventrogluteal, vastus lateralis, and delt, and these are the only IM locations used in nursing now. Dorsogluteal isnt even accepted anymore, but you will still see it listed places. Heres another link showing the sites:
If you want to get over your fear, try sticking an orange (or something like that). Get a needle/syringe and waste one to play with. Clean, insert, aspirate for orange juice, inject your Air Enanthate(slowly!), pull the needle! Do it many times and just use air as your pretend oil. Or you can even use water or some plain olive oil. Might help. I was scared of giving shots in nursing school at first. We practiced like that a lot first and it made it so much easier! I'm an RN now BTW. I made it, lol, and so will you. Its a piece of cake if you just take the time to learn.
Dont forget to thoroughly clean the vial top and the location you are going to inject with alcohol. Dont forget to aspirate to make sure you are not in a vein. If you are having oil leaking when you pull the needle from the injection site, you can use the z-track method for preventing this. Google search "z-track injection" for more info on how to do this. You simply pull the skin beside the injection site to the side before inserting the needle, and after you are done and just as you pull the needle, you release the skin. It helps seal the depot better.
I, and most nursing, prefers the swifter-is-better-than-slow approach to inserting the needle for IM shots; but you do it how you feel most comfortable. Once you learn what youre doing, swifter is definately much less painful than slow, and often painless. The place-it-on-the-skin and go-slow approach is never painless.
Good luck and have fun!
01-05-2006, 06:14 AM
it also might help with the queezyness if you eat before you give yourself the injection. I know alot of guys who get this way, but if they eat beforehand, they are alright. Weird!
ADVANCED MUSCLE SCIENCE STRONGEST ON THE MARKET
01-05-2006, 07:46 AM
There are a few steps you should always take when first learning to inject anabolic steroids. The most important thing to keep in mind is that you must always be clean and very sanitary. Always use new syringes that are in sealed packaging. Never use a syringe that has been used before, either by you or especially by another person. Make sure that the area that you will be injecting is clean and is in the correct location (read injection sites) to prevent injury. Take your new syringe out of its packaging and if there is a protective covering on the needle turn it tight to insure that the needle is firmly secured to the syringe. With an alcohol filled cotton swab wipe the top of your bottle (if you are withdrawing from one) to insure it is sterile. Take the plastic sheath off the needle and draw about 2cc of air into the syringe. Insert the syringe and push the air into the bottle. This makes it easier to withdraw the oil based liquid. Turn your bottle upside-down and withdraw the amount that you want plus just a little extra. Now, flick the side of the syringe to get all of the air bubbles to the top and inject the extra amount you took back into the bottle. Withdraw the syringe and pull back about 1/4cc of air and then remove the needle. From a new syringe take the needle off of it and place it on the syringe that you have your liquid in. This will give you a new, undulled needle. Inserting it through the top of your bottle will have dulled your previous needle. With another alcohol filled cotton swab wipe the injection site. Unsheathe your tightened needle making sure not to touch it to anything (this will unsterilize your needle and can cause severe problems with infection). Hold your syringe upright and push in the stopper slowly until all of the air in the syringe has been forced out. If some liquid trickles down the needle that is O.K., do not touch or wipe it. That will help in lubricating the injection site. Now, hold the syringe like a dart and at a 90-degree angle insert the clean new needle deep into the muscle. Once the needle is all the way into the muscle, pull back on the plunger to check if blood enters the syringe. If this happens it means that you have entered a blood vessel and that you need to withdraw and try again. Withdraw the needle from the buttocks and push the blood out of the syringe. Then replace the tip to ensure that the blood is not hidden in the tip of the needle. If there is not blood present, press the stopper in slowly (to prevent soreness) until all of the liquid has been injected. Lastly, remove the needle quickly and with another cotton swab apply pressure and gently massage the injection site (this will help with bleeding and also eliminate some discomfort in the following days). Try not to inject more than 2 cc's at one time and no more than twice a week in the same injection site. Place the plastic sheathe back on the needle and discard the entire syringe. Try not to inject more than 2 cc's at one time and no more than twice a week in the same injection site. Remember: DO NOT USE SYRINGE OR NEEDLE AGAIN
WHERE TO INJECT
Anabolic steroids, both oil and water based need to be injected intramuscularly (deep into muscle tissue). The most common place for intramuscular injections are in the buttocks, outer side of the thigh, and in the deltoid region of the arm. These muscles are preferred by many because of their thickness. These sites have a large number of muscle fibers and extensive fascia. Fascia is a type of connective tissue that surrounds and separates muscles. Because of this, the steroid or liquid being injected has a large surface area and a vast blood supply, which is better for absorption. When injecting, the goal is to go deep into the muscle tissue WITHOUT hitting major nerves and blood vessels. The best site for injecting is in the gluteus medius located in the upper outer area of the buttocks (see picture). The upper outer area is elected because the muscle in this area is very thick and has only a few nerves. In this area it is not likely that you will hit a blood vessel and the chances of injury to the sciatic nerve. This nerve runs through the lower and middle area of the buttock. If this nerve is hit, you may be temporarily paralyzed and it is very painful. You will want to stay as far away from the sciatic nerve as possible.
CHOOSING PROPER SYRINGE
Choosing the proper syringe is very important. First, you will want a syringe that will hold the desired amount of liquid. The liquid is measured in cc's. Second, you need to have needles that will penetrate deep enough into the muscle for optimum absorption. And lastly, you will need a syringe that is wide enough to deliver the fluid, but also thin enough not to hurt. The thickness of the needles is measured in gauges. An 18" gauge is much larger than a 22" or 23" gauge. Obviously the lower the gauge the wider the needle. There are many different sizes of syringe. You will find that some hold more fluid than others do and as mentioned some you will find are bigger and longer. The most favored size would be a 22" gauge with a 1.5" length (this is the most common for injections administered into the buttocks). 1" needles are usually preferred when going into the thigh or deltoid. If you are confused about this, call a pharmacist and ask them to help. In most cases they will.
01-05-2006, 08:31 AM
Heh,- My first injection took: ( when I saw thw 20 guage I got a little freaked!)
1 Ice pack (to try to numb it up)
1 bottle of JD
1 cold soda can (ice pack thawed by then)
15 mysterious "mysqueto" bites
15 minuits online to double check I was "attempting" to do it right
45 minuits in the bathroom more or less staring at my ass
Call me a ***** if you like, but Ive never seen a 20 guage needle before! I also wished someone would have told me to put the vile in warm water first to make pushing it through easier. But the results from Sus250 was worth it.
Good luck bro!
01-05-2006, 08:38 AM
Are you saying you used a 20g needle to inject with? ugh, those look like straws.
01-05-2006, 11:13 AM
Yeah- It might have been a 19 though. Either way, before that the only needles I saw were when you got a a sot by the Doc. BIG difference!
I just thought it was the standard size for oil based. Even though it was huge, it took 4ever to inject. I had to sit there for like 15 seconds pressing it through. A difficult task when your addrinaline is already going!
Those needles came with the vials.
01-05-2006, 03:28 PM
How many cc's were you injecting? With a 23g it still takes me about 10 seconds to inject 2cc's at a time.Originally Posted by xtraflossy
01-05-2006, 03:30 PM
Do a lot of you guys warm your vials ahead of time? I have never once done it but never really cared about the time it took to inject, does it make a huge difference? And how do you go about doing it? Just put the bottom of the vial into a glass of warm water for 2 mins?Originally Posted by xtraflossy
01-05-2006, 04:04 PM
My first cycle was with Sust250 redijects and I used the 18 ga needle the came with! I didn't know any differant. Glutes were a little sore for a few days after. Prob didn't help that I was jamming the oil in so fast, 18 ga really flow. LOL. I use a 25ga 1.5 now, can't even feel it.
01-05-2006, 06:28 PM
i used to put mine on top of the coffee maker in the mornings while waiting for coffee to brew. it doesn't make a huge difference IMO. the oil flows through the pin easier but that's all i noticed.Originally Posted by Gary46080
01-05-2006, 08:54 PM
Does it help to reduce the soreness in the muscle afterwards? If it's only to help the oil flow easier not much point, you don't want too inject too quickly anyways.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
01-05-2006, 09:59 PM
i didn't notice any difference in soreness. i rarely get sore anyway unless the needle moves excessively.
01-06-2006, 04:11 PM
It helps reduce soreness by allowing the oil to flow faster, thus taking less time per injection. I also think it is easier on the body since the body isn't "shocked" by cold oil...jmo. I like it better warmed.
01-06-2006, 05:58 PM
fwiw, i never injected 'cold' oil either. room temperature for this guy.
01-06-2006, 06:26 PM
I'm going to try warming the vials for my next shot on Monday. What other ways do you recommend besides the coffee maker Beelzebub? I'm not a coffee drinker..Originally Posted by Beelzebub
01-06-2006, 06:29 PM
run it under hot water while in the syringe.
01-06-2006, 06:35 PM
I used to set the vial on a heating pad for a few. I now believe heating is not necessary. It's better for the oil to go in slow anyway IMO. Try using an 18ga pin and firing the oil in like lightning, feels like someone hit ya in the ass with a softball for a couple of days afterward.
01-06-2006, 06:43 PM
I still plan on injecting slowly, but I figure it might help disperse the oil once inside the muscle if it's warmer and less viscous.Originally Posted by bpmartyr
01-06-2006, 08:33 PM
How do you old hands go about rotating injection sites?
Can you see a little mark where your last injection was? I suppose the answer to that might vary with needle size and injection frequency? Failing that, do you "map" it out by using a "landmark" like a birthmark, freckle, scar, etc?
However you decided where the previous shot was, how far away do you keep the current shot, is moving a half inch away enough, or is that too close?
Do you alternate the shots from left side to right side to guarantee site rotation or do you find you're too clumsy going after one side of the body?
01-06-2006, 09:06 PM
I try not to hit the same site more than once every 7 days. So it depends how often your pinning. Whenever possible mix the oils into one syringe instead of doing 2 seperate injections. If you're only injecting 2x a week you can just do left quad, right quad, if you're doing EOD you can do left, quad, right quad, left glute, right glute, this is what I'm currently doing right now and by the time you hit the same site again there should be no visible marks left from the previous injection.
01-06-2006, 09:47 PM
on quads, i press down on certain spots real hard with my finger to see if there are any sensitive spots in there before swabbing and injecting. i know it sounds stupid but i've yet to hit a nerve that way.
01-07-2006, 04:33 AM
Thanks for the replies, and any others are welcome too.
If I was confusing up above, I am not saying I'm worried about leaving puncture marks. I'm guessing that they are small enough and temporary enough that they are just not an issue. I actually see them as a good thing, letting you know exactly where not to inject next time. Any comments about distance between last site vs. your next shot (half inch, 3 inches, etc) and about how much time between hitting the same spot twice (a week, a month, etc) are welcome too.
Gary's advice about mixing oils brings up another question, my upcoming virgin cycle puts me in that position, but is the post-shot discomfort worse for two shots of a ml apiece or for a single, 2ml shot?
01-07-2006, 08:21 AM
i'd go for the single 2ml shot. 2ml's ain't ****. only place i wouldn't inject that is bi's. i've done 3ml's in quads and glutes numerous times with no issues.
as for finding a mark, after a week goes by, i don't see any mark so if i'm hitting the same spot, oh well....i'll live.
01-07-2006, 10:13 AM
I agree with Beelzebub, 2cc is about average per shot, it will be easier to do one 2cc shot rather than two seperate 1cc shots. I think your concern is whether or not you can inject on the EXACT same spot again a week later correct? To be honest, I've always been hitting roughly the same areas so you probably hit the exact same spot quite a bit without realizing it. As long as you rotate the injection sites and are not still seeing visibile marks from the last injection you should not see a build up of scar tissue. Once you start injecting you'll realize things that you were worried about before your cycle, really aren't big issues anyways.
01-07-2006, 11:02 AM
I guess I'd like to add to this a little...
From what what my uncle's second cousin's third nephew told me...
Soap up the target injection site and let it sit for 30 seconds or so, clean off with water. Use a fresh wash cloth and towell, or maybe do the injection after a good shower.
Take vitimin C, with bioflavinoids on the days you plan to inject, to help prevent bruising.
Once the site is nice an clean, swab the site down with alcohol. Prepare a bandage coated with triple anti-biotic ointment, such as Neosporin.
Warm the vial of oil, in a bath of water, so that it's around 100 degrees. You don't want it any warmer than this.
Attach a 20g, 1" needle to your push tube, and fill it with the air which is the equivalent amout of oil that you plan to inject. 1 cc is fine for deltoids. Quads can take 2 ccs. Clean the top of the vial with alcohol (assuming you have one with a rubber stopper), stick in the needle, pump in the air, and draw out the oil that you plan to use. Pull the needle out of the vial, draw back on the plunger to get some more air, clean the top of the vial, and switch to your shooting needle, 25g, 1" for example.
Hold the syringe vertical, press on the plunger to get out the air, wait for a drop or two of oil to come out, and hold.
Wipe the injection site with rubbing alcohol, deltoids, and outer quads are good targets. Inner quads work too. If you're hitting your deltoids, rest your arm on a table, for better stabilization. Slowly insert the needle, trying to avoid nerves. When you approach a nerve, its very similar to the feeling of an electric shock. If you hit a nerve, abort, and try another location, maybe an inch away.
Once you get the needle in, draw back lightly on the plunger, and see if you get any blood. If you have blood, you're in a blood vessle, and need to find another location.
Once you're in, and are in a good location, you can start pushing the fluid in. With a 25g pin, 1cc of fluid may take 50 seconds to go in. Make sure you continue to breathe.
Once the fluid is in, pull the needle out. Don't freak out if blood starts running out the injection site. It happens. Blood or no blood, apply pressure to the injection site for two minutes. After two minutes, apply the Neosporin coated bandage.
Don't be surprised if the injection site hurts and the muscle is knotted up for a couple of days. This is normal. Make sure you rotate injection sites, not hitting the same site more than once per week.
Take your temperature, watch the injection site. If you start running a fever of 101+, or if the site turns red like you have an infection, go see a physician immediately.
The first couple weeks of injecting can be quite stressfull. Once you get your technique down it's not so bad. Your liver will thank you.
There's a good .pdf file on injection techniques that can be found here:
Last edited by TINYTOAD; 08-11-2006 at 06:25 AM.
01-07-2006, 11:33 AM
I'm sorry but I disagree with this. Especially for those new to injecting I believe a quick, swift injection is the best way to go. It will make it the injection as painless as possible and is probably the easiest way to do it.Originally Posted by TINYTOAD
I've always used 23g but I usually get 2cc's injected in about 10-15 seconds, I don't imagine 25g would be THAT much slower. If you're sitting there pushing in oil for 50 seconds then you're surely going to be nauseous by the time it is done. Also doing it so slowly will definately increase the chances of the muscle twitching or moving and will cause quite a bit more discomfort in the following days.Originally Posted by TINYTOAD
01-07-2006, 12:07 PM
Show me your numbers.
Using a 3cc Terumo push tube, and a 25g, 1" Terumo needle, with 1cc of USP sesame oil, it took 58 seconds to empty the syringe, using 23oz force. The oil was at 24.4 degrees C.
Originally Posted by Gary46080
Last edited by TINYTOAD; 01-07-2006 at 03:29 PM.
01-07-2006, 02:05 PM
Yes I use 3cc Terumo syringes as well and with a 23g 1" Terumo needle I can inject 2cc's of room temperature oil in 10-15 seconds, meaning 1cc in 5-7 seconds. I don't imagine the difference from a 23g to a 25g is that astronomical that it would cause a 50 second increase in time? Seems a little excessive to me.Originally Posted by TINYTOAD
01-07-2006, 04:28 PM
25G 1" terumo's at 2ml's probably take me about a minute actually. if you press too hard, the needle moves. for me anyway. the 3ml's took f'ing forever. i use the smallest gauge i can get by with. this **** ain't a race. if i'm in that big of a hurry, i'll wait until the next day.
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