such thing as a good oral only cycle?
- 12-30-2005, 05:10 PM
- 12-30-2005, 05:41 PM
SD is about the only reasonable oral only cycle that can be successfull with keeping gains after the cycle ends. Good and cheap. 3 weeks seems to be the best length.
I'm not sure of your workout experience but i would waite to use any enhancement supplements until you got your diet on point so you can get full benefits from it.
12-30-2005, 06:26 PM
Based on the logs kept here I would have to disagree with SD being the only oral that you can keep gains on. Seems that people are having good gains and keeping them using SD, but also using Phera-Plex, Max-LMG, and Methoxy-TRN. Not to mention the pre-ban compounds. Do a search on the 3 products I mentioned and you will find a huge amount of information.
With all that in mind IMO SD also seems to be the recent compound most people have sides with. In any case if you decide to go with an oral cycle keep it to 3-4 weeks and make sure you have researched and put in place proper support supplements (Milk Thistle, Hawthorn, CoQ-10, Red Yeast Rice) as well as PCT. Read the information already posted in the PCT forum and ask questions. PCT is more critical to keeping your gains than which oral you use.
And I agree fully with NevrEnuf that you should make sure your diet (and training) are spot on before you consider doing a cycle.
Just my .02, take it for what it's worth and do some research.
12-30-2005, 07:21 PM
There are many oral cycles worth doing depending on the results you are looking for. You have to stay in the reasonable range, nothing is going to add 20lbs of lbm in three weeks.
12-30-2005, 08:39 PM
Normally I see people jump all over anyone who mentions oral only cycles. Good to see it hasn't happened yet.
M1t is very effective but I have to admit it is in the nastier basket when it comes to orals. Most of the banned andros and nor andros were dear but somewhat effective
You'll find plenty who disapprove but I got great results from stanazolol - hardness, striations, strength, lbm gains (7lbs retained from a mere 3 week cycle). Its modest compared to the full on gear users gains but its still something I was quite pleased with.
If you don't dedicate to eat and sleep as well as you train and supplement you will waste your time.
TAKE PCT AND SUPPORT SUPPS SERIOUSLY!!!!!!! You only get one liver.....front load blood pressure, liver and lipid supporting supps and in most cases use them during and after cycle. If you don't have tamoxifen or an equivalent don't even start.
I found methoxy did absolutely and I mean absolutely nothing.
I found NOS the same.
I should mention that I'm about to start superdrol so I can't comment yet.
I'm front loading policosanol, milk thistle and hawthorn berry for two weeks and will continue multis, alcar , r-ala and whey.
For on cycle I have the above, red yeast rice, celery seed, r- ala ( which I prefer over COQ10), saw palmetto.
I will discontinue CEE for the cycle
I am aiming at a 3 week cycle with a 4 week max - I'm unsure only because i am starting on 10mg to see how it goes with a view to go to 20mg if no effects at all after 4-5 days.
Iwill go to 30 mg in the last week if I feel ok and am still progressing.
Nolvadex, tribulus, fenugreek, reintroduce CEE and continue all the supplementaries for 4 weeks.
12-30-2005, 09:14 PM
I just finished up my EMax (20mgED) and ATD (50mgED) cycle and gained a solid eight (8) pounds with very little to no fat increase. My strength is way up and I feel great. I have not noticed any shrinkage and HPTA inhibition is very very slight. I am doing PCT with low dose ATD and clomid therapy, but expect to keep all my gains. I am going to hit up 7OH for a couple weeks starting soon to control cortisol.
I have not had any, and I mean any side effects from this cycle except large strength increase and dry weight gain. So yeah, I like Emax. My SD log with pics is below in my profile if you want to check it out. Good gains to be made there too.
12-30-2005, 10:29 PM
bump for truth - code word "reasonable"Originally Posted by revodrew
(sorry - my geek is showing)
still, unreasonable expectations get in the way - I think our unofficial national motto ('anything worth doing is worth overdoing') can blind us to the results obtainable by other approaches; for example, the whole 'pound-a-day' notion is pursued, but I see little about low-dose long cycles: the whole oral/methyl 'frisson' seems driven by the central idea of taking huge quantities of very potent compounds in an effort to see tangible results in days, regardless of the impact on lipids, libido, et c.
If you can get past the 'mass-quantities=mass' idea, there are several orals that should be satisfying. If not...the SD/PP stack is getting good reviews, and revodrew is running a log on SD & Prostan:
12-31-2005, 04:12 PM
well i am 206lbs 6'1 @ 15% bf. I am looking to put on as much lbm as i can that i can hold on to.
my ultimate goal is to reach 220lbs at about 8-10% bf. i am hoping to put on 5-8lbs of lbm (that i hold on to). which seems like a reasonable expectation from what i have read.
has anyone done blood tests to see if the pre-sd supps have any positive effect to lessen sides/make your liver healthier?
i was also looking into other oral only cycles, but am finding it hard to get good advice without getting flamed. i think most think that inj. is the only way to go. it is good to hear that there are some out there that see oral only cycles beneficial and that 10lb gains is good enough for some rather then 30lbs.
12-31-2005, 04:46 PM
the stacking-methyl issue rules out oral-only cycles for a lot of folks, and while the hard facts thereof aren't available, it's pretty smart to be careful with these things: if they blow up, you might not really know the full story for another 15 years. simple truth is, there are few enough orally-active UN-methylated compounds that crafting an oral-only cycle is trick, limiting & involves compromise.
Many people get around this limitation by using injectables and or transdermals.
and, really, 5 lbs is good if it's a solid, maintainable, high-quality 5 lbs.
12-31-2005, 08:02 PM
Yep I know people can be savage at oral only cycles but you seem pretty aware of the strengths and limitations of them. Like you I've gone the oral only route so far. I'm a sprinter and want to be big but not freakishly muscular. 5 - 10 pound gains are good enough for me and, sure there's the methyl issue, but injectables aren't trouble free either.
I've done M1T, all varieties of andos and nor andros and a winny/stanazolol "cycle." I had blood work done after all of these cycles and liver function etc was fine. I had it done about 2 weeks after cycle.
Everything is a calculated risk - as you probably know read up like crazy and take no short cuts on protective supps and pct.
Good luck, not all gains need to come via a needle.
01-01-2006, 10:48 AM
thanks for the input everyone. im going to do a lot more reading and revaluate my current diet and training prior to making any decisions on what to do.
i am leaning towards giving sd a run for 3 weeks doing 10mg week 1 followed by 20 for weeks 2 & 3.
i just need to do more reading on what to do for pct.
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