AAS: More == Better

[Grunt76]

Okay, before the flaming starts, let me begin by saying that I'm not stating that the title IS the absolute truth. I put it up there because that's the topic I want to discuss in this thread. Pros/cons, go ahead.

Since the death of the myth of Androgen Receptor (AR) downregulation from androgen use, I have been wondering about this. It is actually proven that the AR undergoes UPregulation from AAS use.

Moreover, there is an EXCELLENT study posted by meowmeow here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolics/36887-journal-article-androgen-regulation-satellite-cell-function.html

C'mon, give the man rep points, he deserves it, this is a SUPER post guys. And YOU deserve to read it. Now in there they talk of how androgens create new cells, fuse the new cells into the muscle, increase contractile protein synthesis, the whole shebang, in a DOSE-DEPENDANT MANNER.

So... More *IS* better. Within reason, that is taking care of all the side effects and all that. The more I study, the less I find to justify "reasonable" dosages and the more I find to justify the grams of test/tren/deca/fina every week, provided that the ancillaries are well-planned.

Now of course a lot of guys say that their results stop after so and so long, whatnot. This could be from a number of things, CNS fatigue, insufficient food, insufficient connective tissue strength, etc. I don't know. But I want to.

Am I wrong somewhere? If you believe so, then please convince me, I am beginning to have scary thoughts of megadosing everything except maybe the peptides...

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[rhinochaser48]

I haven't read that article yet, so I don't know what it contains.

However, the up-regulation of the AR with testosterone is a temporary thing. It rises for 8-12 weeks, and declines to baseline. I have seen the studies first hand, but do not have access to them at this second, otherwise I'd post them up.

With more AAS, there will be a point of diminishing returns. I don't know how far you can go before reaching this point, but I believe it after reading years of anectdotal feedback.

I also believe that before you reach that point of diminishing returns, there will be a slowing of increased growth. Say for example 500mg test per week yields a steady pound per week of muscle. 750mg test isn't going to yield 1.5 pounds of muscle per week, 1000mg of test per week will definetly not yield 2 pounds of muscle per week. The rate does not increase like this.

The increased anabolism that you might see from increased dosages could be argued to be a waste of money/gear because at the end of a 12 week cycle (I'm just using this as a typical cycle length), you probably won't see too much of a difference between a moderate cycle and a mega-cycle.

Typically, the best approach to any form of drug use is to use the lowest dose possible to achieve the desired result. Beyond that point, you will face an increase in side effects.

Many veteran AAS users increase dose with each cycle. This isn't a bad idea, really, assuming that the last cycle was nearly side effect free. Increasing the dose over time would help continue to grow where otherwise the dosage would no longer be adequate to grow at the same rate.

Personally, I feel it's best to be conservative. I'd rather not have to worry about heart disease or a stroke.

 

[glenihan]

more is better .. you'll get better gains for 1g vs 500mg

however you'll also get more sides and the gains won't necessarily be THAT much better

i definitely agree with Rhino's post

 

[Magickk]

I haven't read that article yet, so I don't know what it contains.

However, the up-regulation of the AR with testosterone is a temporary thing. It rises for 8-12 weeks, and declines to baseline. I have seen the studies first hand, but do not have access to them at this second, otherwise I'd post them up.

With more AAS, there will be a point of diminishing returns. I don't know how far you can go before reaching this point, but I believe it after reading years of anectdotal feedback.

I also believe that before you reach that point of diminishing returns, there will be a slowing of increased growth. Say for example 500mg test per week yields a steady pound per week of muscle. 750mg test isn't going to yield 1.5 pounds of muscle per week, 1000mg of test per week will definetly not yield 2 pounds of muscle per week. The rate does not increase like this.

The increased anabolism that you might see from increased dosages could be argued to be a waste of money/gear because at the end of a 12 week cycle (I'm just using this as a typical cycle length), you probably won't see too much of a difference between a moderate cycle and a mega-cycle.

Typically, the best approach to any form of drug use is to use the lowest dose possible to achieve the desired result. Beyond that point, you will face an increase in side effects.

Many veteran AAS users increase dose with each cycle. This isn't a bad idea, really, assuming that the last cycle was nearly side effect free. Increasing the dose over time would help continue to grow where otherwise the dosage would no longer be adequate to grow at the same rate.

Personally, I feel it's best to be conservative. I'd rather not have to worry about heart disease or a stroke.

:clap2: good post...

 

[ManBeast]

There are many reasons to use minimal dosages on AAS, besides the side effects that using a lot of gear can cause, it also might get hard to explain the drastic changes in your physique to those around you that don't know what you are doing (and who you probably don't want to know).

ManBeast

 

[bioman]

Agreed on all points. i just think that experience has shown us that it's kind of a waste of money to soak yourself in hormones beyond a certain point.

IF AR down regulation is indeed a myth then something is certainly responsible for the slow and stopping of gains. Finding out exactly what that is will be the next leap forward in muscle building.

 

[french_muscle]

I was thinking on the same thing, ARs upregulates in presence of AAS but with 1g of gear a week they'll be likely saturated, especially with very strong affinity agonists like tren who can't displace from the AR easily as they have very high binding affinities, so what I don't know is if taking for example 1g of test and 500mg of tren if the tren doesn't " cancel " the effects of test, at least it's genomic effects ?

 

[Beelzebub]

dan duchaine had a theory out similar to this but didn't get a chance to further his research. i only know of one guy that took a megadose to test it out and he came out fine.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolics/24179-duchaines-theory-post-mediated-growth.html?highlight=dan+duchaine

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Ever hear the saying "magic starts at a gram"?

 

[french_muscle]

@ kwycke, no actually I've never heard it lol good one !

 

[kwyckemynd00]

It was something like that...I think I butchered it though....ahaha

 

[CROWLER]

DAMN Kwycke,

Is that a new avatar? You DEFINITELY leaned out and doesn't look like you lost muscle doing it.


CROWLER

 

[kwyckemynd00]

that's old bro, my wist was 39" there. LOL. That was me at my fattest.

In that pic you saw of me in my last avatar, I had lost lots of weight b/c i hadn't been in the gym for a while. That was my first day back, and my last. I won't be able to hit the gym up again until mid-december, too.

This is me about 5lbs under my biggest: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/kwyckemynd00/fatass.jpg I was actually leaner than I look there...I'm just too white..I wash out really bad. I think my waist was 37" in that pic, to give you an idea. I've not been really lean in a loooong time. (5'10")

I've not been in the gym in ages, however.

 

[CROWLER]

AH got ya.

Tell ya what bro RIGHT NOW do some push ups NOW!!!!!!!!

No kidding. Many times I have had to be out of the gym for various reasons and just simple things like 50 lunges and as many pushups as you can do, really do help keep some of that hard earned muscle.

I will admitt it of course isn't optimum but it is ALOT better than nothing.

So drop and give me 30 mister.



CROWLER

 

[CHAPS]

AWESOME POST!

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Ever hear the saying "magic starts at a gram"?

i'll drink to that - but how about gains in general start a gram..?

 

[sikdogg]

I was thinking on the same thing, ARs upregulates in presence of AAS but with 1g of gear a week they'll be likely saturated, especially with very strong affinity agonists like tren who can't displace from the AR easily as they have very high binding affinities, so what I don't know is if taking for example 1g of test and 500mg of tren if the tren doesn't " cancel " the effects of test, at least it's genomic effects ?

You're assuming that gains from androgens are only from AR binding... there are also non-genomic effects that may not be fully expressed until one gets to the 1g and above dose.

 

[french_muscle]

You're assuming that gains from androgens are only from AR binding... there are also non-genomic effects that may not be fully expressed until one gets to the 1g and above dose.

I know, that's why I said "at least it's genomic effects"

 

[CHAPS]

WAY WAY WAYYYYYYYYYY down the road I'd be willing to try super high doses for brief 4-8 week cycles. If your going to use super high doses it would be best to stick with Test and 1 anabolic to keep sides lower.

 

[Boss_K]

I say magic starts at a gram and a half of test.

 

[Ubiquitous]

Ever hear the saying "magic starts at a gram"?

yeah, I know a guy that has it in his sig.

"the magic began after a gram"

I'm closing in on close to a gram average now. I did a bit of number crunching and realize now that I'm around 937.5mg/week average.. LMAO.. 375mg E3D .. I guess I just didn't want to admit to myself that some weeks were more than 750.. kind of like a mental baffle..

anyhoo.. thanks for sharing Grunt